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70 Responses

  1. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    in the news recently, for those into the show, Peter Sallis, the voice of Wallace from Wallace & Gromit, has died.

  2. Michael says:

    I don’t know who that is…

  3. JoelG says:

    Good article on uncertainty.

  4. Michael says:


    That’s our old friend Dave Rolph…good piece.

  5. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    Wallace & Gromit is a stop motion animated series (for want of a better word) that was made by the studio that more recently did Shaun the Sheep. Wallace is the dimwitted affable inventor and his dog Gromit is the brains of the operation. At least on the US side rather than the UK side that’s what Sallis would be known for.

  6. Dan from Georgia says:

    I’m a Wallace and Gromit fan! Sad news about Sallis’ passing.

  7. em... again says:

    looks like another great list of thought provoking links to read

    i have to make one question on the seamy links that start the list – why wasn’t the perp arrested and jailed way back when?
    and one comment: never report anything to the head of a corporation expecting them to do anything about something if it will make the corporation look bad … sigh
    interesting mindset all around there

  8. Dan from Georgia says:

    Good article on christians needing to repent of spreading fake news. Unfortunately will probably fall on deaf ears and hard hearts to many Christians.

  9. Jean says:

    MLD has mastered one of these. Which one, I wonder?

  10. victorious says:

    Although Rob Bell has lost his way he has found a platform. Concierge unbelief masquerading as compassionate and emotionally mature scholarship sells well today .

    Come to think of it Rib still has a purpose . He us used by God to test my patience and self control.?

  11. JoelG says:

    The empty hell article is interesting. I believe Christs work on the cross goes further than we understand. I think it was C.S. Lewis that suggested that hell is locked on the inside. Why not hope and pray that it’s empty?

  12. Michael says:


    Well said, my friend…

  13. em... again says:

    once in a while here i’ll see someone quote Mark 9:24… and how often that is something i’ve had to confess… so glad someone commented on the uncertainty link or i might have missed some good words on the subject
    snippet from said article:
    “Mark Twain said, “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.” That isn’t Christian faith. Our faith is not ignoring or pretending we don’t have doubts. Our faith is trusting despite our uncertainty.”

  14. em... again says:

    have to say… empty hell isn’t the point for us here on the earth now… the fact that it IS waiting there in eternity is all the reason we need to pray for our enemies… while i confess to having done so, shame on us for wanting anyone there (still working on that 🙂 )

  15. JoelG says:

    “Our faith is trusting despite our uncertainty.”

    Amen Em. He will not leave us in despair, I know that.

  16. JoelG says:


    “I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people—for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.”

    All people…

    His Will be done…

  17. Duane Arnold says:


    You are becoming one of my theologians of choice…

  18. Agnostic Anomaly says:

    If by unfathomable grace to many, when Jesus led the the captives from hell, the doors to hell were indeed locked, would not the deliverance from living a life of hell on earth in a future hope be good news truly without condemnation? Just pondering as Lady Em so often does by example 🙂

  19. JoelG says:

    Duane, thank you. I am humbled…. 🙂

    I remember you writing somewhere here that we will be surprised who we see in heaven. I truly believe you are right, thanks be to Christ.

  20. Anchored says:

    That video of the Coptic Christian’s forgiveness makes me cry every time. Seeing what great impact a Christ-like response has on our world fills me with hope. That’s why more and more, I am praying for Christians to respond to the violence and hatred in a manner that brings glory to God.

    Praise God for such an incredible witness in Egypt!

  21. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Re the article – Covenant theology isn’t replacement theology… Scott Clark’s 2008 message Hits the nail on the head.

    But I take it further — as I usually do — an point the finger at the dispensationalist / general rapture theologian etc, and say that their thoughts actually make them the ones who hold to rapture theology as they have replaced Jesus as the central theme of scripture and prophecy with the nation Israel.

    2 minutes with John MacArthur will make the point – no matter what kind of damage control will come from the rapture crowd, this is the teaching. MacArthur will say that the role of Israel in God’s economy is not only central but that there is no more historical theme in all of scripture (yes he includes the NT) than the role of Israel. More of a theme than Jesus Christ?, more of a theme than the gospel?, more of a theme than the Church?

  22. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “make them the ones who hold to rapture theology as they have replaced Jesus as the central theme of scripture and prophecy with the nation Israel.”

    Should read “make them the ones who hold to REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY as they have replaced Jesus as the central theme of scripture and prophecy with the nation Israel.

  23. Josh the Baptist says:

    MLD is incorrect as usual. I just figured someone from the rapture crowd ought to to say so.

  24. Josh the Baptist says:

    From the Baptist Faith and Message – See in particular the last line:

    I. The Scriptures

    The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God’s revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy. It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.

  25. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Damage control as I predicted. 😉

    Hey it isn’t me that’s wrong – it’s the rapture guy in the video.

  26. Josh the Baptist says:

    Post wildly inaccurate claim…check.

    Say that refutation of that claim is damage control…check.

    Must be another post from MLD.

  27. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh, I am sure that all of the rapture people have documents that say one thing and teach it in a different light.

    I have pointed out 100s of times over the years, when you read the end times books that fill evangelical bookshelves they all mention Israel a 100 times to each time they mention Jesus.

  28. Josh the Baptist says:

    Not only do rapture people worship Israel, but they lie about it in their belief statements! It’s a conspiracy, I tell ya!

  29. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    conspiracy NO — inconsistency YES

  30. Josh the Baptist says:

    Lutherans, however, are consistent across the board, right?

  31. Duane Arnold says:


    Through the years, I’ve been through the rapture, dispensational, covenant ways of thinking (although I do not hold those positions now). An honest question, in terms of your faith what is the significance of dispensational/rapture theology? By this question, I mean how does it inform your life in Christ, understanding of the Bible, etc.?

    For me, if I knew that the Rapture was taking place tomorrow at 3:00 in the afternoon, I think I’d still say my prayers, go to work, thank my wife for cooking supper, etc. Am I missing something here or is it just, for lack of a better phrase, an academic exercise? I’m not asking this in any pejorative sense…

  32. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Josh, I made commentary on a Linkathon article and backed it up with a video clip.
    Your the one mentioning Israel worship and conspiracy theories.

  33. Josh the Baptist says:

    Duane, it’s my best understanding of what the scripture teaches. I recognize that many Godly men come to different conclusions on this issue, and I don’t think it hurts their standing with the father one bit.

    I don’t imagine that my belief in a rapture affects my life in any way different from anyone who understands that life is fleeting and we aren’t promised tomorrow. If Jesus comes back tonight, or if I’m hit by a bus…I need to live my life a certain way. If I live to be 100, it will be a life well-lived.

  34. Xenia says:

    Amen Josh.

  35. Duane Arnold says:

    Josh, that’s really helpful. I guess that is pretty much the way I feel about most of eschatology. Does God have a special plan for Israel? Possibly. Does he have a special plan for France? Possibly. Do either of those “plans” speak to my life as a Christian? Not significantly. As you say, if Christ returns today, wonderful. If the Lord tarries, wonderful. Our life in Christ remains, and at the end, that is what matters.

  36. Josh the Baptist says:


  37. Duane Arnold says:

    #34 Xenia

    Doing some research and found this. I thought it would be of interest to you…

  38. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    But that is not what Rapture Theology teaches. There is no rest or peace in rapture theology – the main thing for the Christian is to “be ready” — well the Christian is already ready as the work of Jesus on the cross did all the ‘ready work’. But what we see in rapture theology is that you must ready yourself and be constantly measuring that state of readiness. We all see this in the “be right or be left” slogans or the rapture ready websites, the Larry Norman songs etc.

    But worse, it shows great disrespect to Jews and Israel – God does not work today with Israel, that comes later when the church is gone – Israel, Jews are left on their own for now – I still don’t know how the Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter, me or Marty Goetz broke through that barrier that the general Jewish population must wait for.

    I believe that a multitude of Jews will come into the kingdom during the last days – however, I believe that we are currently in those last days – God IS dealing with Israel as we can see there are currently more Christian Jews than there are Jews in the world today.

  39. Josh the Baptist says:

    Larry Norman has been dead 20 years.

  40. Xenia says:

    Thanks, Duane. Very interesting.

  41. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Bach has been dead 300 years – so? 🙂

  42. Josh the Baptist says:

    You’re talking about “Rapture Theology” guys by referencing Larry Norman. Wish we’d all been ready came out 50 years ago. I doubt that it is front and center of “rapture theology” right now.

  43. Michael says:

    I’m teaching through Isaiah in church …and it’s easy to see why dispensationalists have a prominent view of Israel in the end times.

    I won’t be angry with God if they’re right about some things…

  44. Michael says:

    Here’s my bottom line on this…while I disagree with dispensationalism, I would rejoice if someone I cared about was under Josh’s pastoral care.

    He loves Jesus and he loves people and we need more like him.

    If he were here, I’d drag him to the skatepark for the kids and we could argue eschatology at a later date…

  45. Josh the Baptist says:

    I never…and I mean NEVER argue eschatology in real life. Probably only on this blog, and mostly with MLD.

    If you took me to the skatepark, the emergency room would be next…because I can’t help myself and I’m not 13 anymore 🙂

  46. Michael says:

    Furthermore…these rapture theology people get a lot more people saved and baptized than we theological “sophisticates” do… most of the growth in traditional churches are transfers from someplace that held to these theologies…

  47. Josh the Baptist says:

    Much to learn from one another.

  48. Michael says:


    We’d make sure you had pads on…and the hospital is only three minutes away… 😉

  49. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “and it’s easy to see why dispensationalists have a prominent view of Israel in the end times.”

    But we are in those end times – so Jesus is working with Israel today – that’s how I slipped in. So tell me why the church needs to be evacuated out to make room for a work with Israel that is already being done?

    I used to get it, but I don’t any longer.

  50. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Michael (and to Josh) – my beef wasn’t with Josh. Josh had a beef with me and my initial post at #21.

    The “beef” usually starts when the amil get accused of replacement theology – as Clark’s 2008 article addresses and as JMac implies in his video clip.

  51. Josh the Baptist says:

    It’s OK that you don’t. At least you admit that you don’t. It won’t condemn you.

  52. Michael says:


    I understand your position and I understand dispensationalism.

    I also believe that the church has bigger issues to contend with and tertiary doctrines need to stay in their lane.

    My fellowship with folks is not dependent on eschatological agreement.

  53. Duane Arnold says:

    #45 Josh

    I’d not discussed the subject in probably 35 years, until arriving here at PP! I simply assumed that people of good faith hold different views on a subject, that to be honest, has little impact on my life in Christ.

    BTW, Larry used to tell me that he got REALLY tired of having to sing that song…

  54. Michael says:


    The term “replacement theology” is almost always proof that the one who uses it misunderstands amill doctrine.

    I still want Josh to come hang out with the lost in my town…

  55. Josh the Baptist says:

    I thought that some people self-identify with Replacement Theology. Much as I know some who hold to Covenant Theology and some to Dispensational.

  56. Xenia says:

    I have an acquaintance who is a convert from Evangelicalism. She has nothing good to say about anything in the Evangelical world. I think she is close to saying they are all going to hell although she hasn’t come right out and said this, to me, at least. I tell her about the dear old Baptists ladies on my Meals on Wheels route and she just shakes her head sadly.

    Here’s the thing: Where were the Orthodox missionaries when I and these elderly southern ladies were growing up in rural North Carolina and the rest of the South? They were hiding in their ethnic enclaves. They certainly weren’t reaching out to the African American population. Who reached out to them? Those Rapture-loving sacrament-denying Baptists, that’s who. Same goes for just about everyone in the south or in rural areas.

    Now things are changing in Ortholandia and the ethnic enclave mentality is beginning to break up. We now have outreaches like Ancient Faith Radio and local parishes are starting to wake up. But am I to fault an 80-year old black lady for not being Orthodox when there was no Orthodox presence in Georgia 70 years ago and she would not have been welcome in an EO parish if there even was on locally? I thank God for those Rapture-loving Baptists who told her the Gospel and showed her the way to heaven.

    I think the Orthodox Church, “the” Church, was God’s A-team but we dropped the ball big time in this country and he said “If you guys are going to hide out in your pretty little churches and eat baklava and pirogis, I am going to send the Baptists in to save those people because I am in the business of saving people.”

    That’s what I think.

  57. Jean says:


    When the label or accusation of “replacement” theology is brought up it is a great slur. Just within the last 30 or so days on this very blog, one of your learned brothers accused MLD or me (maybe both) of not caring about the Jewish people by not believing in their dispensational theology. I mention it because to the highly committed dispensationalists this is not a tertiary doctrine.

  58. Michael says:


    In my experience “replacement theology” is only used as a pejorative against non dispensationalists by dispensationalists.

  59. Josh the Baptist says:

    ” “replacement” theology is brought up it is a great slur. ”

    I did not realize this, and if I have used the term, I will be more careful in the future. ( I know I wasn’t the one who claimed you didn’t care about Jews)

  60. Michael says:

    Xenia @56… gold.

  61. Michael says:


    I do know it is used almost as a swear word by some.
    I know that some believe that not believing in a Rapture is proof of apostasy.

    If we speak to each other irenically, we may be able to help folks agree to disagree agreeably and without condemnation.

  62. Xenia says:

    I have never heard the words “replacement theology” come from lips that were not curled in a sneer.

  63. Josh the Baptist says:

    Practically, what’s the difference in being raptured and dying unexpectedly?

  64. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Your clothes fall off when you are raptured. 😉

  65. em... again says:

    it seems to me that our scholars read/study the Bible, think they have a breakthrough and give it a label… for me, for the most part, these breakthroughs are all theories and, like evolution, have interpretations and shades that waver or worse, get stuck mindlessly attached to the label, becoming articles of faith

    MLD’s call to keep Jesus in the center of all our thinking on the Faith is a good one IMHO

    Xenia’s #56 is so well grounded in good Christian common sense – worth hanging onto iMHO

  66. Josh the Baptist says:

    @ 64 – Could happen in certain kinky death situations too 🙂

  67. em... again says:

    #64 and #66… ahem… when you die someone else takes your clothes off and hoses you down, so pray for the rapture LOL

  68. EricL says:

    Wow! That agnostic’s slam on the Benedict Option was very thought-provoking. Spiritual Pornography is a good diagnosis of the true problem.

    Thanks for that link, Michael. If I can grasp what he is teaching, then I will have come a great distance in respecting the lost, even while urging them to salvation.

  69. Ms. ODM says:

    Michael — Thank you for taking John to task on your facebook page. I don’t think Carra Crouch can even get closure on the evil she suffered at the hand of Jan Crouch until this case is totally behind her. Perhaps she can grapple with forgiveness when restitution is paid for the damage done to her psyche. Jan never repented — she refused to speak to her granddaughters to her dying day — shunning them and disinheriting them and their brother and dad – Jan’s own son. The vileness of their defense to this sunk to such low levels — parading Carra’s troubled teen years and all the sins she lived as some sort of judgment seat in which she had to defend her life to a bunch of slimy lawyers. They accused her and her sister of being in a conspiracy theory with yours truly just because I tried to comfort them and encourage them. The church is running scared — they’ll only rehash secular published reports because they fear the litigious behavior of TBN using the courts as their own whipping post to any who get in their way. They behave like Scientology and all fear crossing them so they turn a blind eye. Anyway – thanks.

  70. Michael says:

    Ms. ODM,

    You’re more than welcome.
    You did fine work on this story…well done.

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