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16 Responses

  1. Tim says:

    I don’t blame students for leaving the MDiv behind. Mine is taking incredibly long to complete. 90 hours is a looooong graduate degree, especially when compared to MBA students who can be done in 30+ hours. An MA in Biblical Studies over at Moody is 36 hours, for instance.

    From my perspective, I think seminaries could keep the Biblical overviews, languages, theology, history, and preaching courses, and cut out most (if not all) of Christian education, denominational distinctives, and electives. It could easily be shaved to 60-66 hours, and be a solid education.

  2. Michael says:


    Bless you for your efforts…it’ll be worth it to the Body…

  3. Tim says:

    Thanks, Michael. I don’t regret school at all…just wish it wouldn’t take so long (or be so expensive!). I had gone back originally to get my languages. Once I completed that, my motivation took a big dip.

    I guess I’m one of the weird ones. Once I got past the initial shock of getting started with the languages, I absolutely loved Hebrew and Greek. 🙂 Without question, it has made me a better pastor and Bible student.

  4. John 20:29 says:

    It used to be in some disciplines that one could skip the masters and go directly into a phd program

  5. Babylon's Dread says:

    So let me get this straight, the Jerusalem Council was to free Gentiles from the rigors of Jewish sexual morality? That’s a strange twist on circumcision.

  6. bob1 says:

    Really enjoyed (if that’s the right word!) the article on Andy Stanley and Marcionism.
    Sadly, I doubt many hearing Stanley would even know what Maricionism is…

    My two favorite quotes:

    “Luther wrote in his Large Catechism that “those who know the Ten Commandments perfectly know the entire Scriptures and in all affairs and circumstances are able to counsel, help, comfort, judge, and make decisions in both spiritual and temporal matters.” Luther was merely summarizing what was by his time a catechetical commonplace. The Decalogue was, as he wrote elsewhere, ‘eternal.'”


    “Stanley’s motive is straightforwardly evangelistic. He wants to convince those who have lost or are in the process of losing their faith that the difficulties they may have with the perceived violence and legalism of the Old Testament need not prevent them from coming to Jesus. Alas, most of the 39-minute talk can really only be described as an elaborate and educated flirtation with the old Christian heresy of Marcionism—the belief that the Old Testament is not authoritative in matters of Christian doctrine and morals.”

  7. Josh the Baptist says:

    Tim, I’m in the same boat, but will finally be finishing in the next year. Strangely, I do miss Hebrew now that I’m finished with it. Still have two semester of Greek left, on this summer, one on fall. It hasn’t yet captured me the way Hebrew did.

  8. Josh the Baptist says:

    Also, I first did a 30hr MA in biblical studies and found it to be mostly useless. (I mean, the info was good, but SO deficient).

  9. Duane Arnold says:


    I think part of the issue with theological education is that it is a hybrid. Partially, it is technical – languages, preaching, pastoral care, etc. The other part, however, is the mastering of a huge corpus of writings, history, theological debates and all the rest. The two parts interconnect, but sometimes not easily. The time involved in really mastering the literature is immense. I’ve often wondered if a different approach might be needed given the time and expense involved.

  10. Josh the Baptist says:

    Strictly speaking dollars and cents, it is certainly not a good investment. But I stopped counting that a long time ago 🙂

  11. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    adding a bit of news, Tom Wolfe, author of The Right Stuff, just died.

    As a journalism student the two big influences I soaked up in my college days were Tom Wolfe and Joan Didion.

  12. John 20:29 says:

    The last of my mother’s siblings passed away this morning at age 103. He was “the right stuff” in the flesh… He was a pilot, tried to enlist, but his civilian profession with Lockheed made him critical to the war effort and the air corps couldnt take him, so he joined the civil air patrol and patrolled the coast at night… RIP Eugene Victor G.

  13. Duane Arnold says:

    #12 Em

    You and your family will be in our prayers….

  14. bob1 says:

    Same here, Em

  15. Josh the Baptist says:

    Sounds like quite a life, Em. Sorry for your loss.

  16. John 20:29 says:

    Thank you, Dr. Duane and bob1…. Josh, thank you and you are right… Tough mind and tender heart. He took after his mother, the preacher’s wife.

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