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41 Responses

  1. Alex says:

    Well, getting stone-walled as usual by Calvary Chapel. Working on the story re: the former CC mom who says pastors at a Calvary in Florida told her schizophrenic son he didn’t need to take his meds…that he just needed to pray and have faith in Jesus…and told the mom to “give it another month” and that she should support her son’s decision. The young man slid into deep psychosis, assaulted another CC family (according to the mom and other sources) and ended up incarcerated and now thinks he’s “God”.

    While Calvary Chapel promotes “Regional Oversight” and gives a public impression of some sort of Church Accountability mechanism and some sort of Church Oversight and preaches that it “simply teaches the word of God simply”…it continues as an Organization to lie by dodging any and all accountability with regards to church discipline. It argues in US Courts that the Govt. shouldn’t get involved in church affairs…and then out of the other side of their mouths they shun church disciplinary processes and dealing with internal issues…when one of their pastors or franchises is the perpetrator of abuse or corruption. Very insidious. Very wrong. Unfortunately, largely supported either actively or tacitly by even the “good” CC pastors….

  2. Alex says:

    “Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD”–Proverbs/Bible

    It’s a form of lying by Calvary Chapel…and no big deal, but homosexuals…well, now that’s “an abomination!” and to be dealt with outside the church! (sarc of course)

  3. Alex says:

    Notice to cake bakers…if you have moral peccadilloes regarding stuff that’s “an ABOMINATION!” to the Lord…I would suggest not baking any cakes for Calvary Chapel.

    Just sayin….

  4. Em says:

    Kristof defends evangelicals… i was just reminiscing on the ‘evangelical’ men and women of my youth… they were honest, chaste, discerning, extremely polite and kind and when they sang those corny (i used to call them “merry-go-round”) hymns, they knew what they were singing about and their uninhibited singing was better than any ecstatic ‘praise Jesus’ outburst of todays’ religious folk IMHO 🙂

  5. London says:

    Meanwhile…there’s christians (and others) doing amazing things in the world!
    Think on those things….

  6. Em says:

    opposition to religious freedom: “When secularized or nominally religious people don’t understand religious motivation, then they are going to assume that, behind a concern for religious exercise, is some sinister agenda: usually one involving power or money. That sort of ignorance is not just naive. It leads to a breakdown of pluralism and liberal democracy.”

    this morning my wise daughter observed that the United States has lost the concept of a ‘melting pot’ and – under the umbrella of a utopian dream of tolerance – is now fracturing into groups vying for power and control – making us vulnerable to all kinds of anarchist violence and abuse

  7. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I am a Christian doing amazing things – just working within my vocation. 🙂

  8. Em says:

    “Think on those things….” good advice, London

  9. Em says:

    Adam broke the commandments… Sunday i listened to Tullian Tchividjian tell his congregation that they were all sinning sinners (paraphrased)… it seems like we shouldn’t have to keep revisiting this fact, but we do, i guess…

  10. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    For those who think that the gospel is only for the unsaved, yes it does not make sense to revisit the topic.

    But because we are sinners, this needs to be pointed out each week so that the gospel can be received.

  11. Erunner says:

    Glad to see these Heaven visitation books being seen for what they are.

  12. mike says:

    I am so not a sinning sinner.

  13. Jtk says:

    Can someone give me a synopsis of Craig Gross and his stuff re: Mark Driscoll?

    I don’t understand…..

    Even one sentence

  14. EricL says:

    I hear the new book fad will be Hell visitation books. Just kidding (I hope)

    Dante’s Inferno was bad enough. Can you imagine it now? “I died and went to hell. Just wait until you hear who I saw down there…”

  15. Michael says:


    Thanks again for the help…

  16. Michael says:


    I haven’t followed that story enough to do so…

  17. Jtk,
    I haven’t followed it in detail, but upshot is that Craig Gross (XXXchurch anti-porn organization/business) bought a mailing list, either brokered, suggested or sold by Justin Dean who was the PR guy for MarsHill/Mark Driscoll. Dean’s role seems to be a topic of controversy involving ownership of URLs and other such things.

    Gross sent out an email to drum up business for his accountability software and used MD as an example of someone who needed accountability and suffered because he didn’t have it (the email to me was a bit smarmy in that it put MD’s accountability right next to pornography accountability issues in the ministry).

    There was a huge backlash from MD supporters, and it turns out the list seemed to be, or at least include, tons of people from MarsHill, Resurgences, etc.

    So the issues seem to be who owned that list, where did it come from, who’s making money from it, who owns MarsHill information now, why is it being sold, etc., etc.

    At least that’s my cursory understanding. If nothing else, hopefully this is a start, and anybody who is more knowledgeable than me can correct or give detail to what I’ve said here…

  18. Em says:

    mike, are you thinking along the lines of Galatians2:20 ?

  19. Dan from Georgia says:

    EricL (#14):

    Actually, you are not too far off with the “died and went to hell” book thing. Back in the early 90s there was a Christian rap group named Apocalypse, and they released an album that contained a song called “Infernal Mix”, which contained the “testimony” of a lady (Mary Catherine Baxter, I believe) that claims she was taken to hell by Jesus for 40 consecutive nights, touring hell. She sees where those without Christ reside, and who goes to hell (take one guess as to what particular group of people, among others, occupy hell) and even recounts a dialogue between a young man in hell and Jesus. Bizarre stuff.

  20. Dan from Georgia says:

    BTW, the album was entitled ” The Final Plea”, released in 1992, and can be found on as well as Itunes – not suggesting you would want to go find it, but just letting you know that this kind of story IS out there! believe it or not!

  21. Em says:

    re: the Roger Olson link: when the theologians get going on one of these (& i guess they have the right), i picture God (forgive my presumption, Lord) thinking, “Oh shut up and just concentrate on those two thieves crucified next to My Son… that’s all you need to know about who goes where and why…”

  22. EricL says:

    Michael @15, you know I didn’t do much this time around. I was quite the slow poke this week 🙁
    Rapper Dan @19, you are scaring me, sir. 🙂

  23. Em says:

    i don’t know if it’s kosher to do this, copy a comment from one of the links above, but someone who posts as marklepard responded to Turner’s “progressive Christian’s response…” thusly:

    “Yes, it is freedom. …..Freedom for a survivor of child molestation from having to cater the ‘Hebephilia Association Annual Meet & Greet’. Freedom for a Christian photographer to not have to shoot two women’s passionate tongue kiss on their wedding day. Does the gag reflex I feel when I see two men make out reveal I don’t love Jesus the way I should? … And if I choose not to, should I face the threat of hundreds of thousands of dollars in lawsuits? That makes me a jack ass, for not saying, “Awww, isn’t that cute”?
    …. It’s about the freedom to not celebrate their lifestyle.
    The description of this law as motivated by a desire to not service gay customers is either purposely disingenuous, or ignorance. People wont refuse to sell cakes, take photographs, build houses and businesses, 99.9% of the time. When the request is to participate in the disagreeable behavior that [sic] we should all have the freedom to say no. …..
    Jesus did hang out with sinners, but He also said, “Go, and sin no more.”

    of course, the backlash of comments on the above just glossed over her reasonable reasoning in mindless knee jerking responses – in my not so humble view…

  24. Michael says:


    Mark is a he…and a long time friend of the blog. He will get a kick out of seeing you take notice of his comment.

  25. Em says:

    Michael, 🙂 glad i didn’t break a blog to blog cut and paste rule – hope he isn’t upset with me for condensing a tiny bit

  26. brian says:

    Alex said “Well, getting stone-walled as usual by Calvary Chapel. Working on the story re: the former CC mom who says pastors at a Calvary in Florida told her schizophrenic son he didn’t need to take his meds…that he just needed to pray and have faith in Jesus…and told the mom to “give it another month” and that she should support her son’s decision. The young man slid into deep psychosis, assaulted another CC family (according to the mom and other sources) and ended up incarcerated and now thinks he’s “God”.”

    It is this kind of stuff I was talking about when I said that the application of “eternal truths” spoken of in scripture are not inerrant. This goes on alot more than people think. I have seen one person almost right in front of me try to commit suicide, almost succeeded but my mom stopped the bleeding. The other kid succeeded, I was in the house when he did not but did not actually see it I was in the kitchen he was in the garage. I dont say this for effect, or wanting attention, seeking comfort ……. I know all of that is rank devil worshipping sin. My point is the church does not deal well with people who are mentally ill. Actually most institutions and people dont deal well with people who are mentally ill.

    I have not had a night terror since I stopped drinking, not one, whats funny is I started drinking to stop the night terrors. Sort of works that way.

    I have to admit I like liturgy and reading the bible communally, there is part of me that thinks it is far to papist and it is just another black stroke on my black soul.

  27. Dan from Georgia says:


  28. Erik says:

    Adam did not break “ALL” of the ten commandments. Terrible theology and lacks bibical support. Besides, Paul said where there is no law there is no sin. Adam received the oral law from God. “Don’t eat the fruit of the tree” The written law from Sinai came after the fall not before with Adam.

  29. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    How was Adam going to be guilty of adultery if there were no other humans but Eve?

  30. Erik says:


    Who ever this guy says:

    “Adam did not show love to his wife when he stood by and let her speak with the devil. He should have protected Eve, but he did not. ”

    But, according to Jesus the 2nd Adam. HE says “even if you “lust” after another women”

    So according to this guys flawed thinking, if you let your wife speak to the devil it equals, not showing love, didn’t stand with her and didn’t protect her.

    But Adultery is “”sexually lusting ” after in your heart according to Jesus after another person.

    Even my 11 year old could figure this out.

  31. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    well, I read once about how one rabbi suggested that Adam knew Eve was right for him because having, so to speak, test driven all the other living creatures, the sex with Eve was most pleasing.

  32. Erik says:


    And you know Adam could fly right? Because God said adam was to have dominion over all the creatures. So if birds could fly then that means in order for him to have dominion he to must have been able to fly.

  33. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    Dean says he’s sorry, though precisely what he did is still open to definition

    The account from last week

    Craig Gross account

    The Last TMZ post has two different forms and this is plenty of links already

  34. Erik says:

    I heard something recently that came from a Rabbi that I thought was interesting.
    How did Josephs brothers recognize him, when so many years went by, he didn’t look like a Hebrew, didn’t dress like a Hebrew but dressed like a pharaoh. According to the Rabbi, Joseph pulled out his shtick before his brothers, and when they say saw he was circumcised, because circumcision was not a practice of the Egyptians, that was the defining moment, that Josephs brothers “recognized” Joseph knowing he was jewish.

  35. Babylon's Dread says:

    Has anyone else noticed how self righteous the left has become?


  36. Babylon's Dread says:

    Yes … FIRST THINGS noticed

  37. Nonnie says:

    Erik’s 34. I read that about Joseph’s “reveal” to his brothers, many years ago. Sorry, can’t remember the name of the book.

  38. Alex says:

    Well, I agree that Liberals (political liberals) are extremely hypocritical when it comes to their selective outrage.

    Tim Cook and Apple have freaked out over Indiana’s pretty benign law…yet Liberals and Apple have no problem with Apple doing business with Saudi Arabia that executes homosexuals.

  39. London says:

    BD, you are cracking me up.
    “The left” sounds like any one that doesn’t agree with you.

  40. Babylon's Dread says:

    No London,

    The left is anyone who starts calling you names when you disagree with them . Here is the stuff I was called for offering dissent about the Indiana law

    My claim was this “When gays lobbied the legislature for the right to redefine marriage they claimed it was a private act and had no consequences for people who disagreed. “Why are you protesting against people’s personal choices and freedoms,” they asked? Here is the answer. If you own a business we will coerce you to swallow your convictions at the altar of our freedom.”

    Some réponses
    ” I read your profile and see that you are another right wing cherry picker of the bible. A hypocrite who couldn’t be farther away from Jesus unless you disappear. I read two of your posts and find you repugnant. The Christian Right. NOT Christian and certainly NOT RIGHT.”

    “Business owners don’t get to say who shops there. If they did they would be able to close their doors to gays, blacks, Jews, or just about anyone else they don’t like. America is for all Americans, not just the bigots who think they[re morally superior to others.”

    ” I have never met anything as vile as a Right Wing Christian. No different than radical islam or radical zionism. Completely full of shit!”

    “Typical right wing response when you’re called out for being a fake Christian. By the way, looking further at your church of hypocrisy, it engages in a lot of politics. Why aren’t you paying taxes? Did the Lord speak to you and tell you not to pay? Hypocrite and a fraud. Take it anyway that you’d like faker.”

    The “Left is anyone who doesn’t agree with me” No but in this case saying these were on the left is hardly a stretch in the political arena

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