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44 Responses

  1. Erunner says:

    Having trouble with this. If you’re gonna quit banking because they support the LGBT lifestyle why stop there??

  2. Erunner says:

    Oops….. same sex couples. Sorry.

  3. Michael says:

    Phil and I talked about that ad on Calvin’s Corner this week.

    That’s a big chunk of change, even for Wells Fargo.

  4. Erunner says:

    They seem willing to take the hit. I was brought up in church being told where and where not I could spend my money and followed instructions. I’m not for same sex marriage but if we’re going to single WF out for an ad where do we stop??

  5. Erunner says:

    Listened to Calvin’s Corner and it seems you and I are close in our thoughts regarding the commercial and the fact we as the church as it concerns the moral high ground. I posted the article on FB and lots of folks love Franklin Graham so I’m not sure how they’re going to respond. Thanks for the heads up as I always listen and am glad I listened today.

  6. Michael says:

    Thank you, Erunner.

    If we’re going to start parsing out unholy commercials, we will just have to throw out the TV…

  7. j2theperson says:

    People should stop banking at Wells Fargo not because it supports same-sex couples but because it’s a really sucky bank that has no respect for its clients.

  8. em says:

    logic says the banking system is going under… so buy gold or bit coins or something… wouldn’t that be a neat impact? all the Believers leave the banking system, get out while you still can… (no i haven’t done that, my SS check is auto-deposited)… just fantasizing

    i do think that God will judge the banking system – for lots of reasons…

  9. em says:

    j2 is right – IMX

  10. em says:

    throw out the TV? good idea

  11. em says:

    four hamburgers are enough for today

    God keep

  12. Anne says:

    WF is also the bank that finances the for profit prison system contractors. That,and as j2tp noted, being a really sucky bank influenced me to leave them and go to a small local bank.

  13. “People should stop banking at Wells Fargo not because it supports same-sex couples but because it’s a really sucky bank that has no respect for its clients.”

    I agree completely.

    WF lost my business when, the week of my father’s passing, they treated me and my family quite poorly. I withdrew every cent of assets and closed my accounts. They lost a rather tidy sum that my parents and I had invested with them, totally pissing away 52 years of loyalty.

  14. Jim says:

    Agree that thinking a commercial would rank high on a bank’s “sin list” is kinda funny…

  15. Jim Vander Spek says:

    RE: creation once or continual?

    Psalm 139 is significant.

    Why should we look at the birth of every single child, with a miraculously complex personality, mind, body, soul and spirit, as being the result of biology? According to this Psalm God created each one.

    Indeed, breathing life into the egg of a chicken may be an act of creation as well.

  16. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Re the article you titled A new exodus out of the American church…

    I was having this conversation last night with a former poster here. He asked me if the article had valid points — my reply

    “I am sure that there are valid points, but I always find it odd that none of these folks (and I use the term in a broad sense) go out and show us the right way to do church. They can identify all of the problems and say they want a “kingdom directed” church – but where is it?

    I think this one lady summed it up best – “And while I do understand that there are plenty of wonderful congregations out there, there isn’t one near me that resonates with what I believe God is trying to teach me.”

    Is God trying to teach her something that he is not teaching everyone? or is the word “resonate” the key?

    It’s tough for people to stick to anything anymore. People don’t stay married, they don’t stay on their job – add whatever else to the list and you will see America 2015.”

    My point is -it’s not the church – we have raised 2 generations of people not wlling to make a commitment to anything, or not sticking with the commitments they make.

  17. Babylon's Dread says:

    Suddenly I believe in the rapture.

    Transeschatos Dread

  18. Jim says:

    Not sure Packard is saying anything that Barna wasn’t saying ten years ago. I personally see no need to “commit” to a weekly lecture. I have no problem committing to people.

  19. Ryan Ashton says:

    Michael, Dread, and anyone else who knows what I’m talking about:

    I am reading, and re-reading, and STILL cannot swallow what Steve Brown is saying (“The Gift of Addiction” article). It’s not because it’s “not true!”

    It’s because it sounds so much like the Hyper Grace trash that I can’t swallow it.

    Is there any way those of you who know what I’m talking about can help me parse this? It’s vital but I am so afraid of diving into error.


  20. Babylon's Dread says:

    Someone please tell me the exact spiritual condition of the apostates described in the Tragedy of Apostasy article

  21. Babylon's Dread says:

    Ryan in all candor the gift of addiction didn’t strike me as anything special… just a man who knows the power of addiction exhorting addicts to come to Jesus weak and broken and receive grace.

  22. Paige says:

    Needless to say, I first read the article on how to help a hurting pastor’s wife and discovered that sort of stuff doesn’t trigger me anymore. Hallelujah. My former church failed in a big, big way…… Oh well…. life goes on.

    Bank with local credit unions and keep your money, such as it is, in local commerce, if possible.

    Yes, throw away the tv.

    Lots more to read….

  23. Thanks Micheal for the link. We shall see if he accepts my invitation for a debate.


  24. Ixtlan says:

    Don’t hold your breath. Laurie has nothing to gain and everything to lose by debating you. I think there has to be a better way than challenging someone to a debate. No one wants to look silly, particularly on their home court. Perhaps you could take a cue from Matthew Vine and have a closed door discussion with him.

  25. brian says:

    Nice list Michael and who ever else helped, lots to consider. Have a nice evening all.

  26. Looking at the Wells Fargo situation it is quite clear that Christians can dish it out but can’t take it.
    Why boycott a company just doing it’s business? Christians shout out, we think what you do is immoral or promotes immorality so we are going to take our marbles and go home.

    But Christians were up in arms in Indiana a couple of months ago when whole companies left the state because they thought the new Indiana law was immoral towards homosexuals and Christians thought it bad when Mozilla boycotted (fired) it’s CEO for giving to Prop 8.

    Can’t we all just get along? How many of the little people will now lose their jobs when Franklin Graham moves his $100 million?

  27. Babylon's Dread says:

    So apparently apostasy has nothing to do with one’s regenerate status in reformed thinking. Apparently apostasy has only to do with one’s public life. I find that strange indeed and untenable. It would mean that one can leave Christ and maintain salvation. I find that to be impossible to sustain.

  28. I am one who believes, even after all I have been saying the past couple of days, in the end if one chooses to walk away from his faith he can do so. Forfeit salvation – not lose it.
    Otherwise you end up with unbelievers in heaven, and I find that to be an irreconcilable problem.

  29. Babylon's Dread says:

    Well MLD you are Lutheran… and I believe you eschew being called reformed. I believe you parse those lines.

  30. Babs,
    Was that a compliment or were those fightin’ words? 😉

  31. Babylon's Dread says:

    That is to let you know that some of your words get noticed.

  32. Muff Potter says:

    Kurschner & Ixtlan @ # 24 & 25,

    I don’t think Mr. Laurie has any desire to engage Mr. Kurschner in a moderated venue. Stupid is one thing Laurie is not, and I’m sure he knows full well it would be like the Wehrmacht against the Polish Army in 1939, no need to predict who would be who in the metaphor.

  33. em says:

    choosing a denomination… after all the years, i’d say (not to preachers as that would be awkward) choose a congregation (not a denomination) – a local church where you feel at home, where the congregation is dominated by real born-again Jesus loving, God fearing Christians… as the Baptist minister some 50+ years ago told me, every denomination is man’s slightly distorted understanding of The Faith… Kingdom Halls and Latter Day visionaries excepted, of course…
    in and out of the pulpit, i wish The Faith had more MLDs and BDs and Michaels and i wish we all seriously prayed for such men…
    FWIW, The Faith also needs more women like the ones whose posts i read here and less of the “high maintenance” variety – those so-called tanned and toned trophy wives that have deluded themselves and the Church into thinking that the highest and best that a Christian man can do is provide spending money for his family… i confess to exaggeration for effect

  34. Babylon's Dread says:

    I read the Q & A on the apostasy thread…

    It is very strange to me the way they define apostasy … “I should clarify that an apostate, ultimately, is one who is not regenerate, professes to be for a time and associates w/ the church, then turns away, and enters eternity without Christ. At the same time, there are apostate-like individuals as I attempted to mention in point #10 (believer in a deep struggle, who eventually repents or unbeliever who eventually repents). But these latter 2 are not, ultimately, apostates.”

    So the apostate is the unregenerate….

    For my mind one would not encourage that type of person to remain but would rather exhort that person to examine themselves as Paul does elsewhere.

    I cannot fathom that scripture would warn against apostasy in unregenerate people. Only a regenerate person could actually be defined as falling away from anything that mattered.

  35. em says:

    hmmm… the apostasy thread… Cripplegate? i’d never heard of it, but these folk are not the ones that i’d look to for teaching… only questions… they need the teachers of the historic Cripplegate, perhaps… at any rate, hmm… wouldn’t anyone who identifies with a set of teachings/ beliefs (there’s a better word) and then turns away, denying the validity of same, be an apostate?…
    so it seems to me that a born-again one could be apostate and still be a Child of God? Just how far into apostasy do you have to dive before you become an apostate?
    just thinking… thinking…

  36. Babylon's Dread says:

    When a person renounces faith in Jesus it means they have no salvation because they have no savior as Hebrews puts it “there remains no sacrifice for sin” … The Hebrews being addressed were in danger of eternal damnation they were not a group of people who were living in gross sin …they were in danger of unbelief though the writer did not think they had gone that far.

  37. D. Alan Hawkins says:

    “Clearly Mark has held some views and made some statements that cannot be defended. One or two of the more outrageous things he is purported to have said, I have heard for the first time through the media exposure over the past week.”

    I found that a rather strange and yet bold inclusion in Brian Houston’s statement.

  38. Babylon's Dread says:

    Transgender is an identity confusion … I seem to be having my own with autofill.

  39. em says:

    it seems to me that organized Christianity is way too dependent today on conferences that must have names that will increase the impact and the attendance?… dunno

  40. em says:

    understanding transgender … i guess we’re going to have to …

    it does occur to me that a male might have an identity crisis because women are prettier and get to play dress up and wear make-up… but, frankly, identity as ‘female’ has more to do with menstrual periods and cramps… is there a surgical implant that does that for the guy?

    why any woman would aspire to be a guy is beyond me…

    it just has to be a head problem – a trauma, perhaps? and i do feel badly for anyone whose wiring is making it impossible to function as built and the confusion! how sad

    birth abnormality is easy, the rest, …? … with the subject continually in our faces we do need more understanding for everyone’s sake … i guess

  41. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “why any woman would aspire to be a guy is beyond me… ”

    My wife wouldn’t want to be – she always asks “how do you guys walk with those things?” 😉

  42. Jim Vander Spek says:

    Interesting graphic on the apostasy article. Was it meant to look like that way, does it have a deeper meaning or was it simply reversed?

  43. em says:

    #43 – think England, perhaps?

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