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88 Responses

  1. Graham Ware says:

    Driscoll’s “new” website ain’t so new. It’s just Mars Hill’s site 2.0. Even the .png file used for the logo is from Mars Hill’s website… it’s bizarre, and seems to suggest the Mars Hill™ and Pastor Mark™ brands were and still are one and the same.

  2. CrucifiED says:

    After reading Courson’s message you linked to, I’m thinking the board probably made a good decision. I don’t mean any disrespect but reading that was pretty strange in a way that makes me worry for him.

  3. I read PJ’s post last night also. I thought he was pretty clear that the board felt his physical condition had now run over into his emotional condition and that he was not able, in their opinion, to continue as their teaching pastor.

    He said several times he understood, but then also seemed to imply that he disagreed. I guess this is why we all need overseers as we cannot properly self diagnose all the time.

    I thought he put it well and I liked how he laid it out on the table.

  4. Xenia says:

    I was in Scotland recently and they have a lot of beautiful churches that are standing empty or turned into night clubs. We visited Greyfriars Church in Edinburgh, where the canon (“senior pastor”) gave us a tour and a lecture. The gist of it was the following: because of the Reformation, they were able to free themselves from the horrors of Christian Tradition and be their own men. This was the philosophy upon which the US of A was founded, not the stifling traditionalism favored by the Orthodox pilgrims he was addressing. Nowadays, his parish does works of charity.

    Well, that’s about all they have left, do-gooderism.

    The real Santa, of course, was St. Nicholas of Myra whose memory the Church commemorated last Friday. He was “the complete theological package,” as Fr. G said in his homily Friday, excelling in virtue, charity, humility and theological understanding. (Of course, being humble, St. Nicholas did not say these things about himself!)

    At the Council of Nicaea he was so angry at the arch-heretic Arius (who claimed Christ was a created being) that he slapped him and was temporarily deposed from the Council. Santa Claus smacking a Jehovah’s Witness, in effect. Put that on a Christmas card!

    Our Christmas is January 7 (old style calendar) but we are having family over on the 25th anyway. Merry Christmas to all of you on the new calendar!


  5. Nonnie says:

    “Santa Claus smacking a JW, in effect. Put that on a Christmas card. ” 😀

    Xenia just made me laugh.

  6. Babylon's Dread says:

    I don’t think Hollywood was commissioned with the Gospel

    God seems to like human mediation

  7. covered says:

    Not sure what to think about PJ’s situation. Reading his message sort of made me feel as though I was sitting in the living room listening to my parents argue. It was sort of strange. Michael, I consider you a friend and I have called you on several occasions regarding a difficult situation but I don’t think that making those situations public is the right way to go. I can say that there was obvious pain coming from this man.

  8. Babylon's Dread says:

    PJC needs good people around him. Based on what is apparent it is good that he has others making some of the decisions.

  9. Michael says:

    I’m swamped so I must be brief.
    I haven’t talked to PJ about all this yet and he may not want to talk to me at all.
    I have no problem at all with him going public…the old way of doing church business behind closed doors is becoming more and more odious to me.
    The church belongs to everyone in it as much to the “leadership”…and if he’s being pushed out the door his flock should know why and how.
    I’m out for a while…much on my plate today.

  10. Kevin H says:

    Covered – PJ has already made his letter public by putting it on his blog for anybody to read. However, Michael is certainly drawing more attention to it by posting it here.

    As to my reading of the letter, coming from someone who does not know PJ and knows very little about him, it does also come across to me as quite strange. Almost as if he keeps bouncing back and forth arguing two different sides in some manner of cognitive dissonance.

    Just to get my history right and anybody can correct me if I’m wrong, but this was the church started by Chuck, Jr., isn’t it? It was a Calvary Chapel but is no more. Obviously seems to be elder/board led now, as opposed to pastor led. Was PJ the lead pastor there before these difficulties? The church’s website currently lists him as teaching pastor and someone else as the lead pastor.

  11. Babylon's Dread says:


    Who is the psychopath that wrote this? And who are the editors that allow it to be prominently displayed? Fundamentalists are saner and safer than this.

  12. Kevin H says:

    From Driscoll’s website:

    “In 2010, Preaching magazine named him one of the 25 most influential pastors of the past 25 years…… Pastor Mark is the author of many books, has written for CNN, Fox News, and The Washington Post, and has been featured as a columnist for The Seattle Times.”

    And smack in the middle of that is, “He’s grateful to be a nobody trying to tell everybody about Somebody.”

    Ugh, the blind arrogance of some people who just never get it…. or don’t want to get it.

  13. Christians unhappy with “Unbroken”…

    Who cares??? Let them pool their money and make their own film. i watched an interview and the family said he was pleased when he viewed the film before his death and the family was pleased.

  14. Michael says:


    You’ve got your history correct. 🙂

  15. Kevin H says:

    The Rick Warren link links to the previous Newsweek article.

  16. Paige says:

    I also find Peter John’s blog post concerning. I truly hope he is surrounded by legit help and support and not given the proverbial ‘left foot of disfellowship’ that tends to be the way churches deal with ‘stuff’ they don’t like. Fame and authoritative power are not ‘good’ for humans and IMO, can certainly lead to a disconnection from reality.

  17. Babylon's Dread says:


    My wife told me all about this. Present day Hollywood loses interest when anyone converts to Jesus these days. Had he embraced something other than Biblical Christianity we would have a longer movie…

    Not really a problem … Let people who know the story tell it… without rancor without malice and without Hollywood’s version screwing it up… make it an after movie dinner conversation with some meaningful facts.

    Best we not keep hoping Hollywood gets us right.

  18. Babylon's Dread says:

    God gets mileage from narcissism …

  19. I find PJ’s post both refreshing and disconcerting at the same time.

  20. Neo says:

    Hey, it’s Neo. Er, Peter-John.

    I think social media is an incredible means to connect as a means of going around “the system”. In this case, I would of had very little means to connect with the three thousand plus congregants of my church. Therefore, I have gone to Facebook and my blog in order to post my “95 Thesis” of sorts. I am personally friends with all involved (or at least I was, lol). I have options as well, the Lord has taken more than good care of my family and I. At this point in my life, I confess I am weary of image. One that is carefully crafted by politician/preachers and is mere projection rather than raw in love and disagreement. So that’s what we have here. I’m not certain what even tomorrow holds, but I am convinced that if I am real before God, with others, and to myself- even if I am not yet right on this situation, I will be headed in the right decision. And until or as I arrive there, the real thing is the right thing. For a fuller perspective, check out my facebook page which links to the blog post.

    Why Michael would lead with this story is amazing to me! But it’s his blog and he knows what sells copies (nudge, nudge). LOL.

  21. covered says:

    Keving you have it correct regarding what was once Capo Beach Calvary which was Pastored by Chuck Smith Jr.

    I just disagree with PJ going public perhaps a bit too soon. It doesn’t help him or his situation in my opinion.

    Michael, I respect your opinion but in this case let’s agree that there’s still time for the Board to respond before we call what’s happening here “business behind closed doors”. For all you know the Board of Directors is seeing something we don’t and they are protecting PJ from himself.

  22. Babylon's Dread says:

    Neo = PJC

    Who knew?

    Says he led with it because of friendship and concern.

    “I am weary of image”


  23. Neo says:

    Covered. Generally, the more closed doors the worse. Generally.

  24. covered says:

    Thank you Neo for your comments and I will be praying for God’s will in this situation. Capo Beach Calvary was my first church after becoming a believer and I am aware of the good work you have done there.

    I also want to thank you for using the word “Generally”. There have been conversations, meetings and times of prayer with me and our BOD’s involving situations that are not for public consumption.

  25. I’m not much of an image guy myself. Much to the chagrin of many.

    I’m also aware that people have differing limits when it comes to handling authenticity, transparency and rawness.

    I myself have some limits in those areas.

    Sometimes scripture speaks about the wisdom of brutal honest, other times the encouragement is that some things are better covered.

    I too am praying for wisdom for the Capo situation as the new age of social media provides us many new opportunities, but just as many snares.

  26. *brutal honesty

  27. Neo says:

    The more light on any subject the better. There are always going to be more than one side of the story; I think it best when the congregation gets as much a perspective as possible so they can pray and process for themselves.

  28. papiaslogia says:

    Neo/PJC – Thanks for your transparency.

    Perhaps Michael led with this story out of concern for “one of our own”?

    We will be lifting you and yours up during this time.

  29. Steve Wright says:

    Love must be our guide. Sometimes the loving thing is to bring stuff into the light. Sometimes the loving thing is to not…There is no universal constant in church issues other than love.

  30. pstrmike says:

    @ 24
    agreed….. generally.

    Masterfully written piece there, costco. I commend your courage for speaking out. The days of ecclesiastical backroom injustice are coming to an end.

    While there are some nuances that I would rather discuss in private, there is one aspect that I would like to address here.

    The comparison with Jesus and Paul….. what else is new? How many other guys have felt the same way…… I’ve felt that way since day 1 here…….and that was many years ago. It’s part of the territory for those who called to a shepherd. Yes, there is a connection we have with people, but only in pointing them to Jesus. Part of the problem with our celebrity laden culture is that people become to endeared to their pastors, and that affection can subtly push out their affection for the Lord. Jacob never took one of Laban’s sheep for his own meal (Gen 31:38), whoa to us if we ever do the same with the Lord’s flock.

  31. Hello Neo, my old friend.
    CostcoCal stirs, resisting the status quo.
    You continue, loved & accepted by those who count, so count on those who love and accept you.

  32. G, I read the first line of your post to the tune of S&G’s “The Sound of Silence” in my head. 🙂

  33. Neo says:

    I’m getting too old, have seen too much, and am too weary to mess around with PR and being true to everything and everyone but God and Self. That’s all. Maybe that makes me crazy. I’m okay with that. 🙂

  34. covered says:

    Neo, your #28 is spot on with regards to letting the congregation know but the problem is when it left the home and goes viral. You know this will go viral based on where you are, who you are and especially because the world loves to see the mess we Christians leave in the sand box.

    Pineapple Head’s #26 speaks volumes.

  35. Neo says:

    Covered. The Book of Acts went fairly “viral” as far as I know. I’m glad we are able to see how they worked out their differences. Or even when they didn’t. A cookie cutter church which glosses over issues and polishes up images is not doing anyone any favors.

    Hey maybe I’m crazy, pun intended, but real love is messy. And it’s good.

  36. I think my #26 simply reflects something like what goes on in the mind of a football coach trying to contemplate the wisdom or foolishness of pulling off a fake field goal. 🙂

  37. Em says:

    amen to BD’s #17:
    “Not really a problem … Let people who know the story tell it… without rancor without malice and without Hollywood’s version screwing it up… make it an after movie dinner conversation with some meaningful facts.”

    excerpted from an item credited to a Dr. Steve Elwart (sorry don’t know him) on Chuck Missler’s Dec. 15th Update:
    “…..Unbroken celebrates the heroic resilience of Louis Zamperini. He models the truth of Romans 5: “We also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.” Few of us have ever faced suffering comparable to Louie and his fellow prisoners of war…
    When Billy invited attendees to come forward and dedicate their lives to Christ, Zamperini grabbed Cynthia and stormed out of the tent.
    Cynthia coaxed her husband back for a second night. Reverend Graham talked about war, when persecution and suffering are rampant. … Louie remembered his sense of wonder while floating in the Pacific. He recalled how he survived plane crashes, the bullets of Japanese bombers, and all the cruelty he had endured as a prisoner of war. It verged on the miraculous. Louie finally began to see the power of prayer in preserving his life for a purpose. In the book, Laura Hillenbrand describes how Louie, confused, overwhelmed and shining with sweat, bolted for the exit, but stopped and turned to face Graham in that tent again.

    In the morning, he woke feeling cleansed. For the first time in five years, the Bird hadn’t come into his dreams. The Bird would never come again.” Louie was experiencing a profound peace. He had become a new creation.
    Louie’s drive to kill The Bird took a dramatic shift. Jesus’ words from the Sermon on the Mount became a new mantra for Louis. …
    Louie let go of the rage that had haunted him. He lived out the power of forgiveness, creating the Victory Boys Camp and sharing his Christian testimony.
    First in 1950, and then later in 1998, Louie traveled back to Naoetsu, Japan, the site of one his POW camps to spread the Christian message to his former captors. Reunited with his former guards (with the exception of The Bird, now a war criminal, who refused to meet him after resurfacing in the ‘90s), Louie extended forgiveness to the very enemies who had persecuted him.

    At age 80, Louis Zamperini carried the Olympic torch towards its destination in Nagano, Japan. Part of his running route took him past his old prison camp at Naoetsu. He never won an Olympic medal, but the Torrance Tornado still ran like a champion.
    Louis Zamperini went to the Lord on July 2, 2014 at age 97. He was slated to serve as the Grand Marshall for the 2015 Rose Bowl Parade, but died two months after the announcement was made. Officials have confirmed that his family will represent him along the route. This year’s Rose Parade theme is “Inspiring Stories”.”

    hope my excerpting is acceptable and cogent

  38. Michael says:

    Papiaslogia was correct.

    First off my phone alerts were going off like crazy this morning with people who had already read the story and wanted more insight.
    When that happens that means a lot of people are interested in the story.

    Second, in one incarnation or another P.J. has been with us for years and I’ve watched his journey for longer.

    Numbers don’t motivate me much anymore, but being a solid source for information and then for support of people in those stories is a big deal.

    I’m very glad that Pete is here and interacting…that tells me his story wasn’t and isn’t a hit and run.

  39. Steve Wright says:

    My comments are not related to Neo’s present circumstances nor of that church. But to expound on a broader point – I don’t know that real love has to be messy. Sometimes the more dirt and mess that is aired the farther away we move from love.

    Does anyone yet know why it is Paul sent Mark back from the mission field? Imagine if it was because young Mark was out with a temple prostitute. What would that mean for the reading of the gospel under his name? Of course, to those of us who see the Holy Spirit as the Author of all Scripture…and who can read the writings of David, Moses and Solomon, knowing their sins…it may not mean a thing. But to others…..

    God, for His purposes, chose to keep silent the reason – and we can be assured God always is motivated by love.

    I know of what I speak…as Michael of all people could attest.

  40. Neo says:

    Michael. I know your heart on these matters. How you and I are intertwined in regards to church life and geographic location is ironic and I do find a bit entertaining. Your theological and social journey has been very close to mine in several respects. I am finding the power of social media in maintaining authentic relationship and so it’s all appropriate in my eyes.

  41. covered says:

    Neo, I have a serious question for you. So far no one here with the exception of Michael knows the specifics of the issue between you and your BODs. Do you really believe it serves you and your BOD’s well to make a public statement at this stage of the situation? I guess that I am missing something here but it just seems as though you may not be helping the situation by using the social media to share whatever it is that is going on. Do I think that your congregation should be involved? Absolutely. Is the social media the place to fire the first shot? I’m not so sure.

    Neo, as I said, I hope that it all works out and that God is glorified in the end.

  42. Neo says:

    Covered, that’s the point. Because of my letter, everyone knows the specifics. Not to say I am completely right or wrong, one rarely if ever is on a disagreement of a matter. Hey, this is new to us all….social media is a new breed. I’m discovering it’s power and pitfalls as we speak. All I can do is go with my heart, one that has been entrusted within the hands of God.

  43. Xenia says:

    I think it is really refreshing that Neo (and all his aliases) just did the simple thing: Tell what is happening, warts and all. Just using simple language without guile. You don’t see that very often.

  44. Neo says:

    Thanks, X.

  45. Steve Wright says:

    Neo, may I ask if they (the Board) are asking you to stay on staff, but not teach? Are you being terminated? I was a little confused by the letter….

    I’m wishing you wisdom and appreciate as well your interaction in all this. Blessings.

  46. David says:

    “Sarah Palin Is Sinning Right Now”

    And we’re done here.

    (and no, it has nothing to do with Palin — like her, hate her, I don’t care. But if you’re just singling out the people most likely to make your core demographic go into a white-hot rage, you’re useless for serious conversation.)

  47. Xenia says:

    One of the first things I look at when viewing a church’s web site is whose picture predominates? Jesus or the pastor?

    Big picture of MD smooching his wife, front and center, on his web site.

    All we need to know.

  48. Bob Sweat says:

    I thought several times that you were PJ! I join with what X said! I love transparency.

  49. Michael says:

    I’m totally confused.
    Who mentioned Sarah Palin?
    Is anyone here in a rage?
    I’m at the skatepark and relatively calm…

  50. David says:

    Sorry Michael, I was looking at that farcical Newsweek article, which contained the booming sub-headline (accompanied by pictures of snake handlers and people at Rick Perry’s political rally) “Sarah Palin Is Sinning Right Now.”

    The whole thing was as if someone took the most upvoted comments on r/Atheism and attempted to compile an article. Sorry, no one here is raging either way – my apologies. I just have little patience for cheap pandering in an article by a supposedly relevant news magazine.

  51. London says:

    Even I knew PJ was Neo 😉

    I’m not sure he’s being wise at the moment, but there ya go…hope he’s making the right move.

  52. Erunner says:

    I knew who Neo was from the get go. Maybe I should start an ODM. 🙂

    Peter, I didn’t realize you suffered with Crohn’s Disease. It seems you had a rough go of it and I hope the worst of it is in the past.

    You may not even recall but you contributed to my blog directly and indirectly and for that I will always be thankful.

    Whatever the details of your church story I pray that you land on your feet and can enter into an even deeper relationship with our God.

    IF that might include anything emotional I would urge you to pursue that vigorously as there is no shame in that. This coming from a man who has struggled over 20 years with these issues.

    It’s a bit sad this is happening at Christmas time and I hope none of this impacts your family in a negative way. God bless you PJ. Allan

  53. London wrote: “I’m not sure he’s being wise at the moment, but there ya go. Hope he’s making the right move”

    Couldn’t have said it better, London.

    I’m sensing that much of PJC’s challenge/opportunity at present comes from the desire to be true to himself. Which in some cases, to keep our sanity, we have to eschew conventional wisdom. That doesn’t mean there might not be a big cost for our choice, but at the end of the day, we do have to live with ourselves. I’ve made a few choices to be true to myself, and found it very liberating. In few other cases, it left me feeling like I man doing a 100 foot bungee jump with a 110 foot bungee cord.

  54. Neo says:

    PH. Yes.

  55. Sometimes a person will change/mature/progress/transform at a different rate of speed than the organization they are a part of, Which, often can create some tension between the two. If that is the case here at Capo, hopefully there can be a greater understanding between the two and perhaps they can continue to walk together, or if not, that the parting will be amicable, each party cheering for the other.

  56. Linda Pappas says:

    On Paul Jon

    Reading through what he shared and knowing what can go on behind the veil within CC and what can happen to people who have served there and who are in the throes of being asked to leave either, directly, indirectly, or by simple process of isolation, silence, and abandonment, I felt the pain he and his family may be experiencing.

    What I picked up on was he was determined to rise above it all and trust God, although if it was possible (which it isn’t when tangling with the powers that be) he much rather stay there. At the same time, I heard an appeal to those who gave him all indication that they were his brothers and sisters in Christ to find in themselves to stand up on his behalf in the hour of his need.

    Most of all, I heard a man who is greatly grieved and feeling quite misunderstood, abandoned and forsaken by those whom He was led by others to believe that as a brother in Christ, we simply don’t treat one another in this way. It was an emotional letter, a brave letter, and a open letter for anyone that would have the wherewithal to step up to the plate and ask the board to include the congregation in the process of deciding whether or not, he was still fit for the ministry.

    I agree with you, Michael. It was a letter that needed to be written so that the congregation would become informed. My prayer and concern is whether people will not understand the depth of despair and grief that would naturally be between the lines in his attempt to be courageous, encouraging, and ever so non offensive towards those who are on this board. And do those who calls themselves to be in Christ really care—time will tell. And if they lay down and ignore this, I would say he is far better off without the whole lot of them.

    I did see that some from this congregation did respond but I wonder if they will take the next step and ask that the board would address this with them before closing the door on him.

  57. Linda – Peter John is not a part of CC

  58. Francisco Nunez says:

    The letter was very gracious in communicating and more importantly in accepting difficult changes.

    This letter also serves as a gentle exhortation to all of us who serve as elders on boards especially when hard decisions that affect the church body as a whole must be made. Challenges like these mentioned can certainly happen in any local church body. May Christ give us Grace not only to speak the truth, but more importantly to treat God’s people including shepherds with mercy and charity in circumstances like these.

    Will certainly pray for physical healing, your family, and the Lord’s leading.

  59. Paige says:

    Neo / Peter John……. praying for you and your family for God’s clear guidance and for solid folks to be around you & the fam.
    God bless you.
    Thanks for speaking up here as well.
    Change is good…
    Church ministry is a bit like being ‘lightly’ electrocuted: Life threatening, yet hard to let go….. may need someone with a broom or 2 x 4 to “help disconnect”.
    I experienced the 2 x 4 method, and lived to tell of it 🙂
    Hope you get the broom. 🙂

  60. Babylon's Dread says:


    Thanks … good stuff

  61. Linda Pappas says:


    Thanks for the reminder. MLD

    Yeah, I know-slipped my mind—I was thinking it was forgetting that some of “it” changed when Chuck Jr. did the spin off, then started CBC.

    Some things never change however and that was what I referencing.

  62. Babylon's Dread says:

    The top twenty stories in Christianity Today are


    So little evidence of the kingdom of God.Once again it suffers violence.

    Please do not tell me that there are not twenty glorious kingdom stories out there

  63. The Dude says:

    What really leaves me perplexed is why American Christian’s get so irates over Hollywood making bad religious movies.I hear people in the church complaining about how bad the secular ones are……something isn’t clicking………

  64. Babylon's Dread says:

    Sounds like the church in Scotland needs an authentic charismatic

  65. brian says:

    “With a skillful mix of bold presentation, accessible teaching, and unrelenting compassion for those who are hurting the most—particularly women who are victims of sexual and physical abuse and assault—Pastor Mark has taken biblical Christianity into cultural corners rarely explored by evangelicals. “1



  66. Erunner says:

    As far as the new movie is concerned the previews look good.

    I have no clue why Jolie didn’t focus on Christianity. Many ideas are out there.

    What I vividly recall is that Chariots Of Fire focused on the Christianity of Eric Liddel and it made for a great movie even winning an academy award.

    Maybe that boat has sailed and a movie of that sort will become a thing of the past. It’s sad because there are many awesome stories to be told concerning the Christian faith that would be great in the hands of the right people.

  67. Muff Potter says:

    Christians unhappy with Unbroken?

    I’m beginning to think that many Christians are incapable of happiness.

  68. fme2 says:

    PJ/Neo…I echo what Paige said.. praying for you, your family, and CBC.

    And, I do love the transparency/genuineness. It’s refreshing and encouraging.

  69. filbertz says:

    Perhaps the US needs an authentic charismatic. 😉

    Muff, I’m thinking you’re right @68.

    PJCneoCC, I applaud your candid comments & personal transparency. I will pray for wisdom and grace for all parties.

  70. brian says:

    Neo I dont know if this is really pertinent but I have committed a few sins of fellowship in the evangelical corporation being sick was one of them. I will admit that I was surprised they gave you six months sabbatical. The first time I got really sick, basically went blind in one eye and had to do things like learn to walk, read, drive, use a knife etc. On my own and by myself. I was given about one discussion and a prayer to get over it and that was five years to long. I have had severe dyslexia both auditory and visual from when I was a kid. That use to really tick off the brethren. I would make mistakes with names, phone numbers etc and of course I was making it all up to get attention. I really dont know why because I rarely brought it up, maybe two or three times a year if that and only for about five minuets and always when asked. Yes I actually kept written records of when I asked for things to make sure that I was not going over my limit, until I learned that my limit was some negative number so I was always over my limit.

    Next to showing grief which is repugnant at best, I can say I sort of relate. I never got it.

  71. brian says:

    If you need to induce rapid long term vomiting you can go see Momentum or Kirk Cameron’s Christmas movie. Both are guaranteed to work better than ipecac

  72. So what really happens when you do your own giving of cash to poor people with no strings attached ?

    These people checked it out and the results were very promising:

  73. london says:

    thats why ive always supported

  74. This guy gave a homeless man $100.00 and secretly followed him to see what he would do, sure enough he headed for the liquor store.

    When you think that you are right, you could be wrong…

    When you think that you are wrong, you could be right…

    Things are never what they at first appear to be.

    Check out the truth:

  75. brian says:

    This is probably stupid, even pathetic and I admit that. I often give money to people and for the most part they buy food, gloves, one guy bought a flashlight, under garments and soap I gave him more money. One guy was really hungry and I gave him twenty bucks and he bought a bunch of healthy bars and healthy drinks. It is really hard for me to do this because I feel so sick after helping people, I sometimes feel a bit of joy then feel just disgusted because I got something out of it and somewhere in there has got to be some type of Satanic or demon oriented selfishness. I still give but I make sure I try to feel nothing, actually I try to do that in everything I do because feelings are just so against God. God wants rational, cold, hard, dispassionate apologetic oriented interaction in every single aspect of life. Being a Christian is just so bleak and extremely tiring.

  76. Em says:

    “feelings are just so against God. God wants rational, cold, hard, dispassionate apologetic oriented interaction in every single aspect of life. Being a Christian is just so bleak and extremely tiring.”

    God wants cold, hard dispassionate interaction? wrong god – He invented feelings – must have been a reason, eh?

    speaking of cold, hard people… anybody catch that item on the Pope’s bracing of the Cardinals? could’ve been almost any organized church today…

    the empty churches of Scotland – like the empty churches of New Zeland – absolutely break my heart… uh oh! i think i just had a feeling 🙂

    God keep

  77. brian says:

    “He invented feelings” Yes He did, carrot and the stick sort of thing.

  78. brian says:

    Speaking of holy God honoring news

    now this is good news.

  79. Donner says:

    Re: #63:

    BD, despair not. I’ve experienced twenty glorious kingdom stories in this year alone. 🙂

    Praise God from Whom all blessings flow.

  80. brian says:

    This is a video via Dr. White, it is a fine refutation concerning the Newsweek article, wel duh off course they will whore themselves out. No offense to honest prostitutes. Doctor White killed this article and did so quite effectively. I was taken back by his granddaughter she is a wonderful creation of God, a true innocent. Good for him and his daughter, I wish them much blessing. I had an entire diatribe about kids and calvinism, but no I wont go down that road. I am glad they are happy and that is good. I know that is pathetic and disgusting and I should be ashamed. God being a Christian is just so tiring.

  81. Paul A. Lytton says:

    Thank you David for you #75,

    One day several years ago I approached a man outside of a store looking through a trash can. I gave him twenty dollars and he noticed that while his personal bag was open to put what he could find in it, an alcohol bottle was visible. He tried to cover it up so that I would not see it. I told him, “Don’t worry about that. If I was homeless and had to go through trash cans to look for something of any value I would probably do all I could do to get as much alcohol as I could get.” (I wasn’t kidding, I really meant that).

  82. Nonnie says:

    Paul Lytton, If I recall correctly, I believe CS Lewis said something very similar, when a friend questioned him if he should give money to a homeless man.

    God sees and He knows….He cares and wants His kids to care also.

    Bless you!

  83. Michael says:


    I don’t get it anymore.
    You’ve been a part of this community for years and your faith and your heart, and you as a person… have been affirmed over and over again.
    I get that you’ve had some bad experiences in the church…most of us here have.
    I get that life is often painful and hard…I really get that.
    Being the kind of Christian that caused you all the miseries you’ve experienced is bleak and tiring because it’s disconnected from the reality of the faith which is the person and work of Jesus Christ.
    Being the kind of Christian you want to be and be around is actually life giving and soul inspiring because it is connected with the person and work of Jesus.
    Part of that work was suffering and He called us to share in it.

    “The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.”
    (Romans 8:16–17 ESV)

    He didn’t explain why things would be so bad, He came and endured the worst with us and for us.
    He also left us His Spirit and has made sure over the centuries that there was a remnant that understood Him and His mission.

    The church is full of bad people…so is the world.
    There are some in the church,however… that remnant…whom suffer with Him and with each other and rejoice when one of us gets it right.

    Being a Christian gives me an excuse to be as kind, caring, and gracious as I can be in a world that doesn’t place much value on being that way.

    Being a Christian gives me an excuse to live sacrificially in a world that strives mainly to acquire.

    Being a Christian is the only thing that brings me any hope or peace.

    I’m still trying to be one…I fail sometimes and in the same ways as the people I point at.

    He’s faithful to me anyway…and usually through the help of other people who call themselves Christians.

    Forgive me, forgive us…if we’ve failed you.

  84. Babylon's Dread says:


    Me too… here’s one

    Just met a young lady who is very quiet, withdrawn almost, clearly not freely loved and celebrated. But something is changing. She told how God became real to her. A run in the foothills, Despair, collapse, face down thinking of making it home one more time, to die. Then a voice, “I am the Lion of Judah and I will show you how much I love you,” pursued by years by tangible darkness seeking to engulf her, the voices increase in the moment to counter the one voice, Then again, “What is the howling of the wolves compared to the roar of the lion?” She went home looked up the Lion of Judah, discovered Revelation 5:5 … it began.

    We met her and have touched lives… Good times in the kingdom

    Merry Christmas

  85. Em says:

    brian, one thing i think i get when i read you here on one of your bad days… you work, do you not, among the pain and misery that most of us really can’t endure… i know times when i have to be a grouch just to keep the show on the road… one other thing… if i didn’t believe in the devil, i wouldn’t give God the time of day… no sermon and no theological justifications… just sayin… cuz Michael lets us

    BUT, you do take a little time to get used to 🙂

    Joy to the world, the Lord has come… but the world doesn’t listen… for a lot of reasons…

  86. brian says:

    Michael and others, some subjects trigger things in me, I have used this blog exclusively to deal with those triggers so basically I have posted some of the worst beliefs I am trying to excise. It was what I said I was trying to do when I first started posting. None of you have harmed me and there is no reason to even think one needs to apologize for. It is not easy dealing with these triggers I hate them and I wish it would go away but it does not work that way for me. I fell the other day and hurt myself again, and when that happens it just disgusts myself but the pain is just so overwhelming because I hurt for days afterwords. That makes me more trigger oriented. That is not an excuse it is just what I am using to try to get by. I do appreciate this Blog and maybe I have dumped too much of my pain on it and all of you. It is not an option in my real world situation. I wish you all a merry Christmas and a happy new year.

  87. Em says:

    brian, i don’t do well when my body doesn’t meet my demands… and that’s just once in a while – i get angry when it interferes with what “needs to be done.” Doctors don’t like me much, but i’m kind to nurses…

    i’ll see you at the Mephibosheth table at the marriage supper – save me a seat, if you get there first…

    good holiday wishes bacatcha

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