Loose Ends

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16 Responses

  1. Corbaholic says:

    “In reality, it seems to be more of an idea than an identity…which is not a bad thing, but without an identity you have nothing to belong to.

    We’ll see if the concept is getting any traction by how many pastors show up for this summers conference…”

    I see what your getting at but I would tend to disagree. Before the split, it was the very definition of the identity being enforced by the “old guard” that was a large part of the problem. It was the fact that that identity was being forced on to people and you weren’t a “real” CC if you didn’t fit the mold. Connecting with the idea of CGN seems to me enough for now for those involved. Because it allows one the space to have one’s own contextualized identity in ministry while still connecting with others around the same unifying idea, to use your terms. I think that’s a good thing.

    And I don’t think we can determine the “success” or “failure” of this by the number of people who attend the conference. So far as I can tell it isn’t a marketing appeal for brand recognition. If the numbers are down, even from last year, it just means that people are still trying to figure out where they fit, and that isn’t failure. If the numbers are the same or up, then it probably means that a base is still being developed.

    There isn’t a time table for these things, and as far as I can tell, Brian isn’t competing for market share which is also a good thing IMHO.

    It’s funny, it just occurred to me. I don’t know why I care so much about it but I do. It’s still my tribe even though I’m not in it anymore. I don’t even really have my own tribe and I’m OK with that. OK, I’ll get off the therapy couch now.

  2. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Does anyone have a copy of the CC or CGN “clear doctrinal statement” Brodersen referred to?

  3. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    or is it the 3 paragraphs on the back of the program guide you are handed when you walk into the church?

  4. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Thanks, I had just found it.

  5. Michael says:


    I think you underestimate the need for your CC brethren to have a defined identity and leadership that acknowledges both that and them as individuals.

    I think this effort is in real trouble, to be honest.

  6. Corbaholic says:

    Michael – perhaps, but I would say that those who have such a need for externally sourced identity would already be aligned with or leaning toward the CCA end of the spectrum.

    That said, a quick check of the map shows more than half of the churches within a 50 mile radius of where I am are dual affiliated, with more solo affiliated with CCA than those solo affiliated with CGN. No point to be made, just an observation.

  7. Outside T. Fold says:

    Just clicked through to the podcast link (didn’t listen), and made a discovery— The Calvary Chapel logo looks nearly identical to the Creative Commons license logo. I am amused by that. A slight difference in weights of the circle around the two cc mark.

    Hm. Share and share alike, I guess.

  8. Josh the Baptist says:

    That resolution won’t even make it to the floor for voting. Pretty sure it is a reaction to this : http://sbcvoices.com/on-racial-unity-among-southern-baptists-submitted-resolution-for-sbc18/
    which likely will pass.

  9. Josh the Baptist says:

    Lack of identity is a killer of any organization. THat goes for churches, shcools, denominations, whatever. People just won’t rally behind vague visions. I don’t think it has to be conservative or theological or anything. Just some staunch identity that people can cling to.

  10. victorious says:

    If you have lived, lead and ministered within the Calvary network of churches then the identity outlined in the link Michael provided is enough for now and quite refreshing. At least that is my opinion.

    If relationships are renewed and healthy maturity and conflict resolution is collaboratively pursued then I see plenty of upwards potential along with the outwards global focus.

  11. Ray says:

    #10 wrote: “Lack of identity is a killer of any organization”

    In the case of a Christian church, or just a Christian, isn’t our identity now in Jesus Christ and the great Gospel?

    I mean, isn’t our identity: “Christianity” To me that’s the greatest identity or cause one could have.

    If we must make our identity in a particular denomination and it’s distinctives, that can lead even to idolatry or a cult…or disappointment…as politics or human failure in the denomination inevitably occurs.

    I listened to the podcast by Brian. Basically, He was saying the Church is much bigger than Calvary Chapel and he wanted to see and learn from what other parts of it are doing. It’s not the dreaded “ecumenism” he’s been accused of. He says he’s secure in his beliefs and they remain the traditional beliefs he’s always had. He seemed to say that (and I hope I’m not mis-quoting him), if he remained only affiliated and fellowshipping with other Calvary Chapels, then all their discussions and meetings would mostly consist of policing one another to make sure they all toe the party line.

    Now that’s the church death that denominationalism often leads to.

  12. Steve says:

    I think as long as the Bible colleges and conference centers are controlled by CGN and not CCA, Brian’s effort here will succeed in the long term as long as CC in general remains viable. I don’t think CCA has much staying power since the old guard will never have a succession plan and these guys are getting really old. In addition, even though the CCA seems to have a rather rigid membership criteria, the reality is even the leadership counsel doesn’t have the same doctrinal statements on their own individual church web sites pointing to a lack of uniformity. I pointed this out before that Joe Focht’s church web site has a very different understanding of the trinity than the CCA’s website. Joe’s is much more leaning towards modal-ism so to me even in the strict association (denomination) there is quite a difference in doctrine on basics such as the trinity.

  13. I echo Ray’s thoughts in identity. I may be a Luddite, but apart from Jesus, what does identity mean Are we talking about branding? The personality of the church or the pastor? Doctrinal distinctions? I hope the identity is wrapped up in our preoccupation to fill the NT model for a local church. That’s enough for me to work with.

  14. Josh the Baptist says:

    Ray / PH –

    Of course my talking about having an identity was basically about branding. The ability to draw people or get them to rally depends on that. I’m not Calvary Chapel, and I’m not particularly high on churches doing the brand thing…but that what you guys used to be really good at. I think trying to follow the NT is a great identity for a church. It may make it tough to build momentum in a “movement”.

    The only problem in all that is if there are buildings, property, radio ststions, etc. that still need to be paid for. You gotta keep the money coming in to keep the machine running.

  15. Babylon's Dread says:

    Of course my interest here was the expose on the Elijah list – which I neither read nor receive. It was too long and rambled for me to read closely but he and I share sentiments on a fair amount o it.

    Todd Bentley was a disaster for which the movement is still paying and from which some of the ideas may not recover. I asserted as much to Wagner but he followed the well-worn path of shaping failure into success by sleight of words.

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