Scott, i have to smile – one of my uncles – career aero-space exec. – quit his job at abut age 50 (back in the 70’s) and did what you’ve just done, but with no experience in the industry – he had a great time for a few years and then went back to finish out his work career doing what he started out doing … he loved to drive, loved being on the road and, truth be told, i think my aunt was glad to have him out of her hair … 🙂 God speed
thankfully, i don’t have to figure out WHAT to do with GFA because i don’t have anything to do with GFA …
intend to listen to the link when my brain engages again … been a busy 3 days and i have to be careful when listening to Lutherans – i have to keep in mind that just because they’re smart, doesn’t mean they know everything 🙂
a book written 26 years ago … have been reviewing some old material myself and am amazed at how long we in the Church have been lamenting the lax laity … since i am a firm believer in brain washing, aka the renewing of the mind, through focus on the Word. i know that an argument can be made that not ALL of our knowledge of God and instruction from the Holy Spirit comes from the canon of O.T. and N.T. writings, but in my view MOST of it does. And we do need teachers as well as our own personal study time. Not teachers that have been appointed as group Bible study leaders, but men like Calvin, Luther and now we have the rich compilations of Packer and others more contemporary. Then we do have men (i know – sexist) standing on their shoulders in many of our pulpits and what i cannot get my mind around is how we don’t hunger and thirst for such teaching. Why do we prefer to hear entertainers and self help gurus claiming to be called to “preach the gospel?” Whose gospel?
not gonna reread the above to see if i made sense – too tired today, so i apologize for using Michael’s blog to vent again… horses are acting strange today, wonder if that means an earthquake’s coming… guess not the dog is quiet and the cats are always strange…
well, i reread after posting… some pretty funny sentence construction and word pictures, i.e., men standing on their shoulders in many of our pulpits? ah well… lol
em,
“have been reviewing some old material myself and am amazed at how long we in the Church have been lamenting the lax laity …”
I don’t know if you listened or not, but the conversation is challenging against those who do lament against the lax laity —- hence the subtitle of the book “Christ in Action” — not “the laity in action”
I will continue to chip away by posting more pages for each and every Calvary Chapel “Associate” beginning with the Leadership Team and “Oversight” teams.
Years and years and years and years of this…more and more testimonies will come out as folks search online for help and answers.
The Brand will become so unsavory that you will have to finally get off your uncaring rear-ends and do something or you’ll have to stop lying and be truly Independent.
That’s what God has told me to tell you and you can think it’s my own imagination as I have thought in the past trying to run from all this and trying to deny the calling. That’s fine. God will do what he does, when he wants, through whom he chooses.
Michael, keep up the good work, you are doing what God has called you to do. It’s not glamorous or rewarding or pleasant…which means it’s probably as righteous as those who truly serve the poor w/o getting rich or famous from it.
Something doesn’t add up with that story. Four or five years ago Brodersen would not have been in any position to do anything, nor did he represent himself as one who could. I would need a lot of clarification before moving forward with that.
I don’t know any of the parties and don’t care to but are you sure these people aren’t nutters? Have you investigated them? Perhaps CC is protecting the grandkids from them.
I think it would be good for you to call out CC to clarify that all they mean by “Oversight” and “Accountability” is who they will let have a Dove and nothing more than that…even though they intervene sometimes if it is something that hits close to home for a “leader” who has beef with another.
Folks are constantly looking for answers when they are lied to by CC and then get the Stone Wall and door slammed in their face.
That is only going to continue and more and more of these types of stories will come out when every single CC Associate has their own page.
Yes, as long as it is actually a true story and not a fiction.
Remember, these are life long members of what you describe as a cult – which makes them lunatic cultists – and since they still are attend the cult association going on for 3 decades, these people may be in too deep to know reality even in their own life.
“We are Calvary Chapel Association, but we don’t have any Accountability or Oversight for any other CC but our own personal Franchise. We do have a Franchising Board that approves applications to be a CC, but they have no authority, no power, nothing more than a rubber stamp on an application. Please don’t get the impression that there is biblical Church Discipline or biblical Church Governance other than what the individual Franchisee decides they want to do”
Me, you posted with no evidence anything he said about the family was true. #0 yrs in your self described cult – doesn’t that put him possible on the lunatic fringe? His family hates him?
I thought you were praising your trolling skills the other day. 😉
There is trolling to get folks to think and get out of their blindspots and trolling that doesn’t have a point and is more akin to ding-dong doorbell ditching.
Now that you’ve actually constructed a premise that makes a little sense, I’ll respond.
1. The evidence is the couple’s personal testimony. Of course there are two sides to every story, but one misnomer is that a person’s testimony is not evidence…in that case then why do they call witnesses to court to give personal testimony?
2. If the shunning is true and real, that is a marker of a Cult and a cult-like dynamic…when you divide families…kids from parents, grandparents from grandkids etc b/c Jesus.
3. Calvary Chapel is a soft-cult in that regard…but not dissimilar to IFB’s who have a history of cult-shunning as well for challenging leadership.
4. I think it is very dis-compassionate of those who demonstrate such a callous view of a personal testimony that comes at much risk to the person posting it. I think it is telling of a bad heart.
Clean on the outside…the cup of the Pharisee…yet the inside is dirty.
You can always tell a person’s heart by how they respond to the pain of the “lease of these” and the pain of the less powerful vs. the powerful. It’s a great litmus test.
When I insult…I insult peers…equals…who almost always take the first shot at me and I respond.
You seem to relish taking shots an folks who have obviously been negatively affected by a much more powerful church/pastor situation…and you seem almost gleeful in your negativity and mocking of their situation.
So what do you do if the family is asked “do you shun your parents because of the church or because they are nutters?” and they answer, “not the church” – then it is their testimony – is it just as valid?
My point is that you just ran with it.
But don’t you think 30 yrs and counting, in a cult diminishes their credibility?
“a callous view of a personal testimony that comes at much risk to the person posting it.” What is the great risk??
So forgive the CC pastors and organizations and move on.
I didn’t say anything bad about these people – I am asking why you bought their story hook line and sinker with no evidence. Even Jackie Alcor stayed away from it.
You my friend are passing on unsubstantiated rumor and gossip about this man’s kids – yes, you gave the wide audience. What does the Bible call one who passes on these stories?
Seriously, if one’s entire family hates you, even one’s own children, and they don’t want you at any of their family events etc. etc. you have to hear the other side of the story before you can even begin to know what to think.
We had met with him about a teaching we disagreed with and were told that “I am the pastor of this church and I have found it to be true! So we told him we could no longer attend
————————————————————————————-
I think the first question would simply be what was the doctrinal issue that this person felt warranted leaving the church of their children and grandchildren because the in-law pastor did not agree with their interpretation.
Especially when the person ended back up at another Calvary Chapel. We’re not THAT different…maybe this is where Jackie’s involvement can be explained….
Back in the day I saw at least two folks show up here and post false stories. It seems like a pretty simple thing to do. That’s why I’m slow in believing everything I read in today’s cyber world. It’s a balancing act to be sure as to what one publishes as you will impact friends and family of the accused and that would be a hard thing to deal with if the story turns out not quite as presented. At that point it’s hard to put the tooth paste back in the tube.
I also understand in today’s church climate there are stories that need to be addressed and in a professional and godly manner however you want to interpret that. Sadly some are on the net to draw numbers while others are seeking truth, reconciliation, and restoration along with justice if possible.
The reality is that for some what is necessary will not be had and that is a crying shame and a blight on those who cause it to be so. Hopefully this place will continue to be a refuge for those seeking healing.
It’s all yours today…
I bought my own semi-truck last month and am now an official owner operator in the trucking industry.
I have always been an independent kind of person and have been a sole proprietor most of my vocational life, so it fits me well.
These past 6 years have been one heck of a ride 😉
Scott, i have to smile – one of my uncles – career aero-space exec. – quit his job at abut age 50 (back in the 70’s) and did what you’ve just done, but with no experience in the industry – he had a great time for a few years and then went back to finish out his work career doing what he started out doing … he loved to drive, loved being on the road and, truth be told, i think my aunt was glad to have him out of her hair … 🙂 God speed
While we sit around pondering what to do with GFA, here is something to listen to. The LCMS has a radio show called Book Talk
This program is on a 26 year old book called “Sanctification: Christ in Action” – conversation is with the author.
http://www.kfuoam.org/2015/07/10/bt-2015-07-10/
thankfully, i don’t have to figure out WHAT to do with GFA because i don’t have anything to do with GFA …
intend to listen to the link when my brain engages again … been a busy 3 days and i have to be careful when listening to Lutherans – i have to keep in mind that just because they’re smart, doesn’t mean they know everything 🙂
a book written 26 years ago … have been reviewing some old material myself and am amazed at how long we in the Church have been lamenting the lax laity … since i am a firm believer in brain washing, aka the renewing of the mind, through focus on the Word. i know that an argument can be made that not ALL of our knowledge of God and instruction from the Holy Spirit comes from the canon of O.T. and N.T. writings, but in my view MOST of it does. And we do need teachers as well as our own personal study time. Not teachers that have been appointed as group Bible study leaders, but men like Calvin, Luther and now we have the rich compilations of Packer and others more contemporary. Then we do have men (i know – sexist) standing on their shoulders in many of our pulpits and what i cannot get my mind around is how we don’t hunger and thirst for such teaching. Why do we prefer to hear entertainers and self help gurus claiming to be called to “preach the gospel?” Whose gospel?
not gonna reread the above to see if i made sense – too tired today, so i apologize for using Michael’s blog to vent again… horses are acting strange today, wonder if that means an earthquake’s coming… guess not the dog is quiet and the cats are always strange…
God keep
well, i reread after posting… some pretty funny sentence construction and word pictures, i.e., men standing on their shoulders in many of our pulpits? ah well… lol
em,
“have been reviewing some old material myself and am amazed at how long we in the Church have been lamenting the lax laity …”
I don’t know if you listened or not, but the conversation is challenging against those who do lament against the lax laity —- hence the subtitle of the book “Christ in Action” — not “the laity in action”
I will continue to chip away by posting more pages for each and every Calvary Chapel “Associate” beginning with the Leadership Team and “Oversight” teams.
Years and years and years and years of this…more and more testimonies will come out as folks search online for help and answers.
The Brand will become so unsavory that you will have to finally get off your uncaring rear-ends and do something or you’ll have to stop lying and be truly Independent.
That’s what God has told me to tell you and you can think it’s my own imagination as I have thought in the past trying to run from all this and trying to deny the calling. That’s fine. God will do what he does, when he wants, through whom he chooses.
Michael, keep up the good work, you are doing what God has called you to do. It’s not glamorous or rewarding or pleasant…which means it’s probably as righteous as those who truly serve the poor w/o getting rich or famous from it.
Something doesn’t add up with that story. Four or five years ago Brodersen would not have been in any position to do anything, nor did he represent himself as one who could. I would need a lot of clarification before moving forward with that.
I don’t know any of the parties and don’t care to but are you sure these people aren’t nutters? Have you investigated them? Perhaps CC is protecting the grandkids from them.
I mean, this guy is a CC lifer.
Those folks have the right to share their story, they are responsible for their words and testimony.
One Big Truth therein…Calvary Chapel tells the Public it has “Oversight” and “Accountability”…and that is the Big Lie they keep perpetuating.
God “hates” liars…if the bible is in fact inerrant, infallible, the “Word” of God etc.
We’re going to research this one before proceeding.
I think it would be good for you to call out CC to clarify that all they mean by “Oversight” and “Accountability” is who they will let have a Dove and nothing more than that…even though they intervene sometimes if it is something that hits close to home for a “leader” who has beef with another.
Folks are constantly looking for answers when they are lied to by CC and then get the Stone Wall and door slammed in their face.
That is only going to continue and more and more of these types of stories will come out when every single CC Associate has their own page.
Those folks have the right to share their story,
Yes, as long as it is actually a true story and not a fiction.
Remember, these are life long members of what you describe as a cult – which makes them lunatic cultists – and since they still are attend the cult association going on for 3 decades, these people may be in too deep to know reality even in their own life.
I’ll run something early next week.
Something like:
“We are Calvary Chapel Association, but we don’t have any Accountability or Oversight for any other CC but our own personal Franchise. We do have a Franchising Board that approves applications to be a CC, but they have no authority, no power, nothing more than a rubber stamp on an application. Please don’t get the impression that there is biblical Church Discipline or biblical Church Governance other than what the individual Franchisee decides they want to do”
Nice word salad MLD. Why do you post such nonsense? Just to troll?
Me, you posted with no evidence anything he said about the family was true. #0 yrs in your self described cult – doesn’t that put him possible on the lunatic fringe? His family hates him?
I thought you were praising your trolling skills the other day. 😉
#0 yrs in your self described cult = 30 yrs
There is trolling to get folks to think and get out of their blindspots and trolling that doesn’t have a point and is more akin to ding-dong doorbell ditching.
Now that you’ve actually constructed a premise that makes a little sense, I’ll respond.
1. The evidence is the couple’s personal testimony. Of course there are two sides to every story, but one misnomer is that a person’s testimony is not evidence…in that case then why do they call witnesses to court to give personal testimony?
2. If the shunning is true and real, that is a marker of a Cult and a cult-like dynamic…when you divide families…kids from parents, grandparents from grandkids etc b/c Jesus.
3. Calvary Chapel is a soft-cult in that regard…but not dissimilar to IFB’s who have a history of cult-shunning as well for challenging leadership.
4. I think it is very dis-compassionate of those who demonstrate such a callous view of a personal testimony that comes at much risk to the person posting it. I think it is telling of a bad heart.
Clean on the outside…the cup of the Pharisee…yet the inside is dirty.
You can always tell a person’s heart by how they respond to the pain of the “lease of these” and the pain of the less powerful vs. the powerful. It’s a great litmus test.
If everybody in your family hates you….
Story doesn’t quite add up.
When I insult…I insult peers…equals…who almost always take the first shot at me and I respond.
You seem to relish taking shots an folks who have obviously been negatively affected by a much more powerful church/pastor situation…and you seem almost gleeful in your negativity and mocking of their situation.
Evil stuff.
So what do you do if the family is asked “do you shun your parents because of the church or because they are nutters?” and they answer, “not the church” – then it is their testimony – is it just as valid?
My point is that you just ran with it.
But don’t you think 30 yrs and counting, in a cult diminishes their credibility?
“a callous view of a personal testimony that comes at much risk to the person posting it.” What is the great risk??
“Love your enemies. Forgive 70 times 7. Turn the other cheek. Forgive.”
X, isn’t that the advice you’ve dolled out to me many times?
Why the change of heart?
Why is the “Church” and Pastor always afforded the OT God-like privilege to Hate and to Not Forgive and to cast into hell?
Yet you prescribe a much different medicine for the lowly pew sitter/sheep?
…telling once again.
My heart hasn’t changed, I just don’t believe everything I read on the Internet.
So forgive the CC pastors and organizations and move on.
I didn’t say anything bad about these people – I am asking why you bought their story hook line and sinker with no evidence. Even Jackie Alcor stayed away from it.
You my friend are passing on unsubstantiated rumor and gossip about this man’s kids – yes, you gave the wide audience. What does the Bible call one who passes on these stories?
Seriously, if one’s entire family hates you, even one’s own children, and they don’t want you at any of their family events etc. etc. you have to hear the other side of the story before you can even begin to know what to think.
Yes, it *is* telling. It tells you that I am the sort of person who wants to hear both sides of a story.
Very telling indeed.
We had met with him about a teaching we disagreed with and were told that “I am the pastor of this church and I have found it to be true! So we told him we could no longer attend
————————————————————————————-
I think the first question would simply be what was the doctrinal issue that this person felt warranted leaving the church of their children and grandchildren because the in-law pastor did not agree with their interpretation.
Especially when the person ended back up at another Calvary Chapel. We’re not THAT different…maybe this is where Jackie’s involvement can be explained….
I was watching earlier an old Billy Graham crusade – 1985 at Anaheim Stadium – interesting looking at those 80s hairdos on the ladies. 🙂
I went to that crusade back in ’85 MLD. Hope my hair looked okay! 🙂
Back in the day I saw at least two folks show up here and post false stories. It seems like a pretty simple thing to do. That’s why I’m slow in believing everything I read in today’s cyber world. It’s a balancing act to be sure as to what one publishes as you will impact friends and family of the accused and that would be a hard thing to deal with if the story turns out not quite as presented. At that point it’s hard to put the tooth paste back in the tube.
I also understand in today’s church climate there are stories that need to be addressed and in a professional and godly manner however you want to interpret that. Sadly some are on the net to draw numbers while others are seeking truth, reconciliation, and restoration along with justice if possible.
The reality is that for some what is necessary will not be had and that is a crying shame and a blight on those who cause it to be so. Hopefully this place will continue to be a refuge for those seeking healing.
http://www.live58.org/this-is-what-stops-you-from-making-a-difference