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24 Responses

  1. Erunner says:

    Meeting the closest friend I had in my younger years for lunch today. He was the best man at our wedding and we’ve fallen out of touch through the years. I pretty much eliminated him from my life after coming to faith as I thought that was what I was supposed to do because he wasn’t saved. He reached out at different times and I pretty much blew him off. It’s guilt I carry to this day. Good thing is we’re both looking forward to seeing one another again.

  2. Michael says:

    Good on you, Erunner…I hope it all works out well.

  3. AA says:

    It’s good to get together with old friends, have a great reunion E.

  4. Erunner says:

    Thank you Michael and AA.

  5. SJ says:

    Anybody got a good reference/interesting read on early early Christianity. Pre formal church & pre formal bible compilation. Any good history out there on a maybe a hundred to a few hundred years AD when the teachings of Jesus were followed and taught via oral tradition when maybe some early manuscripts just started to appear/float around??

  6. Michael says:

    Church was already formalizing by 100 AD and the apostolic letters were already circulating .

  7. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    SO – read the Didache – it was history as it happened. 1st century stuff.

  8. Michael says:

    Didache, Clement, Polycarp…

  9. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Doctrine pretty much set. I don-t think you will find a hello type chuch. Acts 2 towards the end shows the beginnings of a formalized liturgy.

  10. Michael says:


  11. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    That was suppose to be a jello type church

  12. Em says:

    glad MLD caught his typo, i was trying to process a “hello” type church – now is a jello church one that was molded, but wobbly? … left to melt? … or?
    reminds me tho, that i haven’t had jello for a very long time… lemon with mayo and cabbage was pretty tasty

  13. Rick Ritchie says:

    SJ, I would start with a small compilation book like Early Christian Fathers, edited by Cyril Richardson. Several early church writings. It’s good to read some primary sources for yourself before you have too much interpreted to you. Then if you want an early history, The Early Church by Henry Chadwick comes highly recommended. This is a great subject to delve into.

  14. Ixtlan says:


    I have Richardson, and read parts of Chadwick’s compilation. “The Apostolic Fathers in English” Michael Holmes is also a good work. Nothing like reading the early fathers to get insight of how the early church thought. As Michael mentioned, Clement, Polycarp, and I would add Ignatius, Irenaeus, and Justin the Martyr.

    Something to consider…

    As my Orthodox friend once told me, “when you read the fathers, you are no longer reading Protestantism”. I would agree, but I would also add, neither are you reading Roman Catholicism either….. the research is still in process as to whether they are truly reading Eastern Orthodoxy.

  15. Michael says:


    Well done.
    I would also commend my favorite…Frank James lectures on church history via iTunes.

    As Ixtlan pointed out…if you’re looking to the early fathers to prove or disprove some point, you’re going to be sorely disappointed.
    They were all over the place on some issues.

  16. SJ says:

    Thanks all. Was not looking for any specific point. Just interested, as I imagine after the apostles died there were many people that were descendants/friends of that group that continued on in the faith pre “the fathers” and denoms.

  17. surfer51 says:

    Don’t feel bad ERunner,

    That Christian elitism thinking hit a lot of us when we were young.

    Most of us abandoned our non Christian friends when we started walking with the Lord.

    I think we grew up and realize that it is OK to develop friendships with people from all walks of life.

    God’s representatives that we are to others just might open the door of spirituality for them.

    In May 1977, Dan Peek left the band America. Peek recently had renewed his Christian faith after years of recreational drug use.

    It kind of finished the bands run of great music in a sense when he left.

    ‘Horse with no name’ was a hit as was ‘Sandman.’

    May God’s Blessings be with you and your old friend.

    Both of my best friend’s for most of my life have passed on…

    One of them got saved, not sure about the other.

  18. Erunner says:

    Vic and I had a great four hour visit today. It was like we hadn’t not seen each other in so long. And the time just blew by. We talked about the old days and what’s going on now.

    Christianity came up and he’s experienced the negative side of things a few times that impacted him but was open to the things I shared. I can’t express what a joy it was to see him again.

    surfer 51, I pretty much did whatever I was told from the pulpit and so everything was so black and white I didn’t think much about decisions I made until later on and it hurt to come to grips with that truth.

    I have always been a lover of the music America did and I’m glad to hear about Dan Peek. Thanks for your kind words.

  19. Why didn’t he just give the darn horse a name? 😉

  20. filbertz says:

    why didn’t he take a nameless camel through the desert?

  21. Anne says:

    Fil -cuz it was an America desert, of course. Probably the Mojave,outside LA, LOL!

  22. surfer51 says:

    Actually some think the reference to Horse With No Name was about heroin.

    It wasn’t.

    “Horse” is a common street term for heroin. Dewey Bunnell and the other members of America completely denied any drug reference connected with the lyrics.

    Dewey Bunnell said he was writing about “the strange horse” that was ridden in an M.C. Escher picture.

    The song was composed to capture the hot, dry feeling of the desert (he was just 19 when he wrote it).

    Bunnell said he remembered his childhood travels through the Arizona and New Mexico desert when his family lived at Vandenburg Air Force base.

    “It was a travelogue in my mind, an environmental song to some degree. We were part of the hippie era to save the earth, and I’ve always been attracted to nature and the outdoors.”

    He greatly admired Neil Young. “I never shied away from the fact that it was inspired by him,” said Bunnell. Ironically, “A Horse With No Name” replaced Neil Young’s “Heart of Gold” at #1 on the charts…

  23. Rick Ritchie says:

    The early church fathers were so early the only earlier phase was the apostles themselves. Polycarp (born 80AD) was a disciple of John the Apostle. Ignatius was born even earlier, and may also have been a disciple of John. We really do have early material. Most of it just doesn’t lend itself to answering all the questions people want answered. The writers wrote about what interested them.

  24. Jonnyb says:

    As do we…

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