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  1. Jean says:

    The Road to Golgatha

    “He went away from there and came to his hometown, and his disciples followed him. And on the Sabbath he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were astonished, saying, ‘Where did this man get these things? What is the wisdom given to him? How are such mighty works done by his hands? Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?’ And they took offense at him. And Jesus said to them, ‘A prophet is not without honor, except in his hometown and among his relatives and in his own household.’ And he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people and healed them. And he marveled because of their unbelief.” (Mark 6:1-6)

    By now the charges against Jesus are piling up:
    Charge #1: Healing on the Sabbath. (3:1-6)
    Charge #2: Possessed by Satan. (3:22-26)
    Charge #3: Deficient pedigree and resume. (6:1-6)

    The ordinary people are now turning against Jesus. They’re offended by his preaching and healing. Jesus isn’t doing things their way, according to their expectations. He doesn’t have the right credentials.

    It doesn’t matter to us that Jesus healed the sick, diseased and lame; cast out demons; and forgave sins (2:5). We would not believe in him. His mercy and grace were ignored. As a result, “he could do no mighty work there”. The prince of this world appears at this moment to have the upper hand.

    What can Jesus do now? What options are left to fulfill the will of the Father to redeem his people? What is necessary?

    Stay tuned.

  2. Here is a good video to explain the Lutheran mind to others

  3. Best watched in YouTube format – click the title at the top

  4. Em says:

    #1- what can Jesus do? just what He came to do – walk the talk – keep on keeping on, doing the will of the Father… He wasn’t sent to improvise

  5. Xenia says:

    Happy Saint Xenia of Petersburg Day!

  6. Jean says:

    Em, what was the will of the Father?

  7. Michael says:

    I’m watching an apostasy/prophecy conference.

    Pretty funny stuff… the dangers of the emergent church and the new age.

    Maybe they’ll warn us about Rajneesh and other groups that barely exist as well…

  8. Dan from georgia says:

    Michael, is Jan Markel involved in this conference?

  9. Michael says:

    No, this is the old CC standbys.

    So far Len Sweet and Eugene Peterson have been damned to hell in the last 20 minutes.

  10. Michael says:

    Rick Warren and Henri Nouwen just entered the pit…

  11. Michael (and all) you need to watch the video I posted above – it is not old standby stuff that rots your brain – and it is not anything you will here in any kind of day to day evangelical church.(it is also the antidote to the Uriah type teaching.

    It will be good for both soul and brain.

  12. Nonnie says:

    Watching the live stream. Bless his heart…. the poor man is rambling and jumping from one topic to another mid-sentence.

  13. Erunner says:

    Looks to be the church that is hosting is one we attended for maybe 18 years. Oh my…

  14. Em says:

    Jean @ 6 – “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not **willing** that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

    Matt 26:38-42 … John 5:30 two instances where Jesus mentions that he’s come to do the will of the Father… in a nutshell, Jesus said of himself, “For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

    n order to achieve that end it required perfect and complete, uncompromising obedience to the Father – to do the Father’s will – that is why we killed him – we called His humility arrogant rebellion against the accepted religion did we not?

    it occurs to me that He was the perfect model of obedience in humility… humility with a firm, unyielding stand?

    just a frog here today, skipping from lily pad to lily pad – landing for a moment on some truths – every single one of which is loaded with doctrines that might elicit “yes ands,” but shouldn’t provoke “yes, buts”

  15. Jean says:


    You have it. I don’t have a “but” or ” and”; just Amen.

  16. Babylon's Dread says:

    I turned it on to immediately get the 19 point checklist warning about emergent teaching.

    I know this drill

  17. Eric says:

    One of the current heroes of the faith from my country was released today, but it said nothing her husband.

    Christians here are celebrating this couple as representing what Christ’s kingdom is about, while the media has plenty about the sins of the established church.

  18. Erunner says:

    I wonder if these folks will lump Greg Laurie and Brian Broderson with the emergents? The sad thing is everyone is exposing everyone else. And the cults continue their growth….

  19. EricL says:

    I say we build a wall to keep out the illegal emergents! Oh, and I stand against new math, new age, and anything else new. Now get off my lawn, you whippersnappers. 🙁

    Well, I actually do stand against New Age mysticism when folks attempt to pass it off as genuine Christianity, but I’m not too worried about it as a separate religion. Most of the organized New Age groups are getting old and worn out like the Metaphysical/ Mind Science churches of the late 1800s.

    These discernment folks really need to find some new boogiemen to oppose.

  20. Babylon's Dread says:

    I haven’t heard “God” and the “Word of God” spoken with this cadence and affect since I left the Baptist church. I haven’t missed it.

  21. Babylon's Dread says:

    OK he just made a point that I agree with.

    Unitarian assertions are not our faith …

    When we come from a tradition who died for the confession Jesus is Lord and people who went to death because they would not call Caesar by the name that was reserved for Jesus I think I have no problem with saying no to the Pope. But then I am not a Catholic either.

  22. Michael says:

    I fear deeply that when this conference is done it will have left me with a third grade comprehension level.

    Hysterically ignorant people.

  23. Cash says:


    Could you explain what he means when he says if you don’t go to church and go to the lake instead and then you fall in and drown you die because Christ is found in the sacraments which is at church? “The difference between the Lord’s supper and a lake is God won’t forgive you when you fall out of the boat.” Is he talking about unbelievers there? Doesn’t that negate everything he’s said the whole time about not having to do anything? I am not understanding just that part of it.

  24. Cash says:

    It’s found at 46:30

  25. Cash – “The difference between the Lord’s supper and a lake is God won’t forgive you when you fall out of the boat.” ”

    He said the lake won’t forgive you – which is understandable because you don’t go to the lake for forgiveness of sin … as you do (or should) church

  26. Cash I went back and listened – I think he meant to say the lake, because 5 sec later when it switched to being on the mountain, he said the mountain wouldn’t forgive you.

  27. Michael says:

    Greg Laurie is now anathema to the CC hardliners.

    I need to be nice to Greg again… 🙂

  28. Babylon's Dread says:

    There is a real danger of turning back…

    Few of us will go home to Rome

    Most will simply roam away from home

    The culture’s immersion in hedonism is a far greater danger

    They warn us about Leonard Sweet, Rick Warren and Beth Moore

    There’s a case of missing the point.

  29. Michael says:

    The surest way to protect the flock is to teach them of the kingdom and ground them in that.

    This other stuff was garbage…

  30. Michael says:

    If i could invite anyone to speak to my church and be assured that he would come it would be Eugene Peterson…

  31. Cash says:

    How about what he wasn’t saying–he wasn’t saying that if you are a believer and decide to skip church one Sunday, God won’t forgive you. That’s how I understand it. Anyway thanks for posting that it was really good.

  32. Em says:

    #2 – Romans 7:18 note that it says that it is not in our flesh to produce good… might be good to remember that our flesh can produce human good, i.e., the acts of the good Samaritan

    and that raises a question, does it not: is there more than one grade of ‘good?’

    @24minutes… it occurs to me that Rev Donavan’s (an Irish Lute?) description of the tax collectors of 2,000 years ago describes the politicians of today…does that mean there’s still hope?

    have to peel off for a bit – will try to hear the man out later… he’s teaching very close to what R.B.Thieme hammered home with regularity… the question in my mind is why so many give assent to these truths and slip over into carelessness in their life conduct?

  33. Cash, I think that part of the talk was saying in my words “if you think it is a coin toss as to the value of church vs a fishing trip you had better think again.”

  34. Em, I think you need to give a 2nd listen.
    1.) good works can not be done if they are not done in faith
    2.) Donovan Riley is talking 180 degrees opposite of what R.B. Thieme would teach. Whereas Thieme would hammer home “proper living” Riley is telling you why we don’t. We live in carelessness in life conduct because that is who we are.

  35. Em says:

    MLD, you didn’t get my first observation – there is a need to define ‘good’ when discussing – ahem – good
    we live in carelessness because we want to? experience bears out that declaration as fact

    sorry but you are not qualified to declare what R.B.Thieme taught on “good”- you probably couldn’t have followed his presentations if you’d wanted to… but it was my mistake for mentioning the unpopular man of God here

  36. Jean says:

    “and that raises a question, does it not: is there more than one grade of ‘good?’”


    I think I can adopt your terminology and affirm that there are two grades of good, provided that we are very careful about our use of the term “good.”

    When an atheist, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, (or even a Christian) performs works that are commendable before the world and accord with God’s Law, but which are coerced by the Law or are done for selfish reasons, such works have a civic goodness to them, but nonetheless because they do not proceed from faith, these works of the Law are regarded in God’s sight as sin.

    By contrast, for works that are truly good and well-pleasing to God, which God will reward in the world to come, faith must be the mother and source; and on this account they are called by St. Paul true fruits of faith, as also of the Spirit.

  37. Good = that which is done in faith.

    “But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.”

    Without saying either, the other or neither is right, I am just saying that Riley is teaching the opposite of what Thieme taught.

  38. Em says:

    well, the word ‘good’ does seem to be a snag … there is a thing called human good … it was a thing of human good for the Samaritan to stop and come to the aid of the wounded man in the ditch and there are efforts we make to do good, sacrificially even, that have unintended bad consequences – but that’s another, maybe secular, topic

    what i think we’d all agree on, including the 2 pastors, is that the good that has eternal value only originates with God, Himself

    if you wish to stand on the ground that says we can’t do anything ever of Eternal merit under any circumstances – cuz you’re only human? that you’ll confess every week that you are a sinner and solve the problem? well, i hope it does – dunno i’m learning that confessing that i’m a sinner is the easy part – confessing my sins is harder… and the hardest is to believe that, since God has forgotten what i’ve confessed, i also need to forget that which is behind – after my confession

    confession is good – maybe fits in both categories – dunno – again

    God keep

  39. Josh the Beloved says:

    I have a family member who listens to Beth Moore.

    Is she some into some kinda heresy or something?

  40. Nonnie says:

    Josh, the women at my sending church in Calif. have been doing Beth Moore studies for several years. The group is led by the pastor’s wife. There are a lot of CC’s that use her materials.

  41. Em says:

    gotta say that i love the ad up there in left corner “you’ve read the blog now get the book” 🙂

    good thing about the book it is free of all us pontificating commenters

    Go Broncos and please Lord don’t let Manning get hurt … at least not too badly, just enough to cause him to retire would be okay, tho

  42. One more comment on the Donovan Riley video above. I think his central point is that we are not defined by who we are or what we do. Our actions, sins do not define us.

    This double life we live IS who we are. The part I find profound and somewhat unique is this talk is being presented to teenagers at a youth conference.

    Teens do not need to hear the DOs and DON”Ts of the Christian life – the need to hear the Who.

  43. Michael says:


    # 43 is the gift that Lutherans give to the church and that some evangelicals are hell bent to rob from us.

  44. Anne says:

    Josh – Here’s an example of BM’s teachings. I could say a lot….but I won’t 😉

  45. Ellen G. White Disciple says:


    I was actually there at the CC conference. You don’t think there is any validity to the warnings?

  46. Michael says:


    It was large, steaming, pile of distortions and accusations that should embarrass those participating.

  47. Ellen G. White Disciple says:


    You don’t think there is validity to Bill Johnson and Bethel teachings which are aligned with IHOP/NAR?

    I have been to IHOP in Pasadena and I can tell you firsthand it feels heavy and a dark spirit there. Also, very heavy handed leadership in the Bethel/IHOP movement, its very cultish and authoritarian.

  48. Michael says:

    I didn’t see the sessions on Johnson or IHOP.

    They are whacked.

    You deny the Trinity.
    Worry about yourself.

  49. Ellen G. White Disciple says:


    Don’t be like other trinitarian’s that love to persecute those who are outside their view. Bible never says to be saved we have to believe in a trinity. John 17:3 is the test of salvation and John 4:22 and John 3:16. Im not perfect and have come off harsh as others but remember the world will know us by our love. So even if I don’t believe in the trinity doctrine let Jehovah and Jesus be my judge. Unfortunately it has been trinitarian’s that have persecuted other Christians who chose to disagree with that view.

  50. Michael says:


    This is a blog.
    Being moderated on a blog will not get you into Foxes Book of Martyrs.

    You are a heretic.

    I’m done now.

  51. Jean says:

    So let me get this straight. There’s a dude masquerading as a woman and a woman masquerading as a dude. And each of them are pointing to heretics while themselves serving up heresy. What dimension is this?

  52. Michael says:


    and they wonder why I drink…

  53. Ellen G. White Disciple says:

    I meant 1 John 4:22

    Your attitude is very unchristian like my friend, you can know all the church fathers you want and theology you want but without Christ living in you it’s absolutely meaningless. Your name calling of people including me is absolutely a bad testimony of what it means to be a Christian. You can say the name of Christ all you want but it’s showing the fruit of the Holy Spirit that speaks volumes. You and MLD have a lot to learn in self control and the way you talk to people but im sure knowing all the church creeds, teachings of Luther and Calvin will get you into paradise. Im sure the way both of you guys talk to people matter not in God’s eyes cuz your theology is on point. If I don’t make it to paradise because of my nuance of the Godhead trio you and MLD may not make it due to the way you treat others. Im out!

  54. Michael says:

    “Im out!”

    You finally got one thing right…

  55. Em says:

    off the top of my head tonight… and it’s all been said before, i know…
    “love was when God became a man…” either Jesus was God incarnate or we are polytheists, worshipping more than one god… you’ve either got to accept that there is one God – a mysterious triune Being or, if you are a reasonable person, you must conclude that there is no God … a case of faith making more sense than rationalizing – the more i think on it, though, the more God in 3 persons makes sense – logical even 🙂

  56. Michael says:

    The Trinity is a difficult doctrine.
    It’s also one of the non negotiables of the faith.

    I have no problem with those who wrestle with such things.
    I have huge problems with people who claim a plagiarist and false prophet as their guide while rejecting the historical position of the church.

  57. John The Beloved says:

    When I consider in general terms the moves of God or revivals from the early church through the centuries to modern times. Where God changed countries and an entire generation of people and cultures by the mighty supernatural work of the Holy Spirit.

    The common theme in all of them. Is they are all Trinitarian Revivals.

    This is a partial list in no specific order and I’m sure I left out tons of other vessels God used in various places. I know some will discount this form of evidence as Gods blessing. But IMO when it comes to fruit on the tree. The oneness or Arianism heresy advocates cant touch or even come close to the Trinitarian fruit.

    Great Awakenings 1 & 2
    Yunnan Province, China
    Cane Ridge Revival
    Argentina Revival (1980’s)
    Europe: Le Réveil

    Irenaeus (A.D. 125-200)
    Tertullian (A.D. 160-240)
    Johnathan Edwards
    Reinhard Bonkke
    George Whitefield
    Charles Finney
    John Wesley
    Cyprian (A.D. 195-258)

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