I read this article it about short circuited my brain. It is a Baptist view of baptism of children.
They are speaking of the maturity one must have before being baptized;
” The kind of maturity that we feel it is wise to expect is the maturity which would allow that son or daughter to deal directly with the church as a whole, and not, fundamentally, to be under their parents’ authority. As they assume adult responsibilities (sometime in late high school with driving, employment, non-Christian friends, voting, legality of marriage), then part of this, we would think, would be to declare publicly their allegiance to Christ by baptism.”
It does put a new meaning to Adult Baptism. This is from a mainline and powerful Baptist Church.
MLD @2, please note that Capitol Hill is not your typical Baptist church. Their senior pastor is in the forefront of the Neo-Calvinism movement, along with Piper and the others. Sometimes that Neo-Cal/ Baptist mix comes out with odd rules.
Delaying baptism to make certain that a child understands what they are confessing through baptism is a typical Baptist stance, but claiming the delay is to make sure they are “mature” and no longer under their parents’ authority seems a new twist. But the Neo-Cals seem to obsess over everything “authority”, from pastoral authority to church discipline to men having authority over women.
Maybe this is just me overreacting, but every time I hear Baptist something in me wants to run away screaming….
Our oldest child tried out the local Baptist youth group because some of her friends from school were going. She pulled out of it when the leaders told her that, not only was her Lutheran baptism not valid, but she would have to be re-baptized with them to continue in the youth group.
MLD, the quote you posted above is just, well, weird to me. My kids have been “dealing directly with the church as a whole” for quite some time now, while still under their parents’ authority. They have already declared publicly their allegiance to Christ, occasionally in words, but mostly by their actions.
I think requiring young people to wait until they attain a certain maturity to be baptized, and making that a turning point, robs them of maturity and growth in Christ they may already have. It also puts the emphasis on what they have achieved instead of what Christ achieved for them.
Just my opinion.
I think the debate rages on – immersion or sprinkling. It really seems nitpicky to me, I think it’s pretty clear that the internal experience is what’s important.
I should add that I have met several Baptists over the years, and still have Baptist friends. We just disagree on a few things…..
maybe i just don’t take denominational demands as seriously as i should, but when the SBC would not recognize my Presbyterian sprinkling i went thru the immersion requirement as then my late husband and i were equally acceptable in the fellowship…
“Is it the activity or is it the internal experience?” for me it is most definitely the latter – how can an innocent baby “repent and be baptized?” … if you are a confessor of Jesus Christ as Savior (the “Lord” part takes time to actualize IMV), you really need to be baptized, but not doing so – unless it is from a heart of rebellion – will not keep you out of heaven… at some point in time one should feel the need of submission to the act, however – as i see it
the idea that baptism should occur simultaneous to get a driver’s license is almost humorous… a child can be baptized, making them wait for the church’s definition of an age requirement is skating on thin ice with God, i fear
I do love how all the Baptistic folks – this ranges from SBC, CC, the John MacArthur types etc all agree that baptism really does nothing, its a symbol of obedience, but you had better do it right and in many cases do it our way and in case of doubt do it over.
Those of us who baptize babies, believe that it means everything and have only 2 requirements – it be trinitarian and you get wet. We accept everyone’s baptism that contains those two and do not rebaptize.
Again, are we doing something for God – or is God, who is outside of us doing something to us?
I was being facetious about the baptism comments…LOL
Because of the continuous debate of splash, sprinkle and immersion.
I got baptised as a baby by the Catholic church because of my mom’s family denomination, and then knowingly as a Christian in the Pacific ocean by Chuck Smith.
It was a moment that etched itself in my memory.
I came up out of the water with this incredible exhilaration and great joy.
Talking with others I have found it to be a common experience when people get baptized.
So my question to you guys is what was it like for you personally when you got baptized?
Did you have my experience, or was it just simply an obedient compliance to be baptized without any added experience as a result?
Josh @ 15, would you agree with the article from Capitol Hill Baptist then? I don’t recall things being so delineated during my SBC days, but that was long ago when I was in my 20s. Even now, taking a quick look at the Baptist Faith and Message, I don’t see all that stuff about being mature or out from under your parent’s authority before getting baptised:
“Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer’s faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer’s death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead.”
Truly curious whether you find that CHBC views of delaying baptism until early adulthood reflect the SBC mainstream.
No, EricL, that really seems to be the opposite of the vast majority of SBC. I understand the problem that they are seeking to fix – young kids getting baptised, without really understanding, and falling away as teenagers. I think MLD’s idea for catechism classes are a much better answer than this.
Mixed feelings as I am about to watch The Tragically Hips last performance due to lead singer Gord Downies terminal brain cancer. Before I was born again, it was one of my fave bands. Then, I stopped listening to them in place of CC music. Hard transition…18 years later, it’s bittersweet to see this man give his final performance after 30 years. May God have mercy on his soul. Our lives are like a vapor. And even though I’m not supposed to listen to ” secular ” music. I’m gonna sneak a peek at the live stream being broadcast worldwide……
EricL, no cape, mask or spandex (none of those pixie boots Robin used to wear either) probably the goofiest thing in my closet is a Ben Roethlisberger jersey.
As far as delaying baptism goes, I seem to remember a lot of fairly young kids getting baptized during my time in the SBC. Though neither are SBC two of my best friends participated in believers baptism before the age of 10. They’re both great guys and solid believers, but I think it would be fair to say they both had a similar rebellious period to the one I had a am “unsaved” young person.
Bob (post 18)..wife and I prayed for Tony MacAlpine, a phenom on the guitar and piano. He had colon cancer, but has recently been given a clean bill of health. I hope and pray someday he recognizes just who gave him a second chance at life!
Yeah, there are lots of things we aren’t supposed to do (at least according to some individuals) to be considered “good Christians”, but hey, I think your post hints at there are bigger things at play other than keeping up appearances.
I am amazed at the talents given to many people, whether they know the Lord or not, and I am learning not to beat myself up for enjoying music, whether secular or in the CCM camp.
surfer51…I love Chicago! I am in my late 40s so I am privy to music from the 70s! I still own a copy of Petra’s “More Power To Ya!” album…ALBUM I SAY! Anyways, on that album there is a song that clearly starts with a backward-masked portion, and if you play it backwards, it says “What are you looking for the devil for when you should be looking for the Lord?”
When I became a Christian at 14, I converted all my cassettes to Christian music (taped over them from Christian radio)…..
I have since re-purchased many of the albums I taped over.
To me, music is music, whether it’s being used for God or not.
My wife introduced me to a lot of great 60’s and 70’s music which I still enjoy.
And I still have most of my old Christian stuff, which I still enjoy (including just about every Petra album….) Dan, you’re right around my age by the sounds of it.
I do have to admit it took me years to get over my legalistic views toward music.
One of my faves – Geoff Moore and the Distance, crankin out “Why should the devil have all the good music?”
Though pressed, I never let go of my “secular” music. I mean, there are some artists who are so anti-God that I didn’t enjoy listening to them, but I still enjoy a lot of regular artists…and a few Christian bands.
When I became a Christian in 1995, at Harvest, I was informed that I had to absolve myself I all of my “secular” music, so I parted with a significant collection of the Devil’s music. I kick myself for falling into that legalistic trap.
My former CC friends, who essentially abandoned me and my family, after we left that church, would conclude that I’m backslidden, and destined for Hell if they saw my iTunes collection today. And, yes I’m still a Christian.
After several years, my eclectic music collection is in good shape. I have an array of Classical music, Blues, Soul, Rock n Roll, Outlaw Country, Thrash Metal, Death Metal, Punk, Surf music, Enio Morricone, Jazz, Christian Metal, and all points in between.
God created melody, harmony, and rhythm, might as well enjoy it all.
Enio Morricone is the Italian composer who wrote the scores for dozens of “Spaghetti Westerns.” I love listening to his stuff. It reminds me of watching those old Westerns with my Dad.
“Spaghetti western” music is awesome. I never thought about listening to it apart from the films. Hmmmm…
I listen most to Bowie, Neil Finn, Neil Young, Elvis Costello. Although I should have been a child of 70s music, I really cut my teeth on the new wave/punk scene of the 80s. MTV had a bit to do with that, as well as growing up in So Cal, which was a hot bed for such artistry.
In the Christian realm a huge fan of anything with Terry S. Taylor (including Daniel Amos and Lost Dogs), The Choir and Undercover. (Hat tip to Bill Walden)
David H…I love that song “Emerald” by Thin Lizzy. My other favorite Lizzy songs are “Cold Sweat”, “Black Rose”, “Baby Please Don’t Go”, and a few others.
Pineapple Head (30)…I remember DA and The Choir. Somewhere floating around my house I have a DA tape (I THINK it was them) with the song “Hide the Beer the Pastor’s here” on it.
Owen – “Spaghetti Westerns” were a genre of “Westerns” that were usually directed by Italian directors. Clint Eastwood starred in a lot of them. “For A Few Dollars More,” “A Fist Full of Dollars,” and “The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly,” are three of my favorites. By today’s standards they are pretty cheesy.
Pineapple Head – I had the good fortune of seeing Thin Lizzy a couple of times, once with Gary Moore. Phil Lynott was a great songwriter, but in the old Irish tradition of the poet, he was a screwed up mess. It was tragic that heroin took his life. He just couldn’t get his life straight.
Another Irishman I loved was Rory Gallagher. And, he like Lynott died too soon. In my opinion Gallagher was one of the greatest guitarists of all time.
Disillusioned – “nasty legalism” is apropos. In 1995, there I was a the ripe old age of 37, being made to feel like a lost teenager. Since I was late to the faith, and really new, I fell hook, line, and sinker. I really wish I had had the spine at that point to tell certain folks to leave my musical proclivities alone. Although I did realize that what they were saying was hogwash, I still went along for the ride. “Backwards masking” was a hoax. Sure, a lot of bands went for dark, and “evil,” but it was a way to sell product to angry kids. It’s hard to imagine Slayer writing a love song.
I’ve done a lot of personal research on the social/cultural aspects of Rock music. The roots of the anti-Rock/Pop music movement come directly out of the racism of some White Southerners (I’m putting on my fire suit). Southern preachers went after the devil rhythms, sexualized lyrics, and such because of the African American origins of the genre. You can find a lot of video footage of these preachers ranting about the “Evil power of Rock n Roll” on Youtube. As popular music evolved through the 60s the anti-RnR movement got more and more shrill. Rock and Roll was a Communist plot, a Satanic plot, an atheist plot, and on and on. The diatribes just kept morphing into different plots against conservative Protestant values.
Not so funny, but it actually is, I think that a lot of the focus was on the sound of the music (distorted guitars, heavy drumming, and screamed or yelled vocals), than anything else. By the late 60s, early 70s, the likes of Chuck Smith, and Contemporary Christian Music were adopting the same sound, in an effort to move product. You see, add some nice “Christian,” or “Biblical” lyrics, over the Rock n Roll, and people will buy it. In 1995, I remember going to “Christian” stores, and seeing a “sounds like” chart. You know, the chart that says if you liked Black Sabbath, you might like Petra, etc. See, their selling you a product with a different shell.
There are several websites that still proclaim the evils of Rock n Roll, but today they seem almost anachronistic, from a time past. Every form of music that is not from an old Baptist Hymnal is decried as evil. They are ODMs for music lovers.
Focus On the Family’s Plugged In website is particular amusing because it is such a polished site. They’ll happily tell you about how many cuss words are in a song (exact number of F words used on an album), sexual content, and positive content, and why you and your kids shouldn’t or should listen to it. For example they hate Metallica, and love Killswitch Engage (because Killswitch doesn’t cuss).
I did the backward masking thing with the Beatles, ELO, and Zeppelin. I’d put them on the turntable and make it go backwards. What I recall was that this fad didn’t begin in the church.
Music was literally my life starting at about age 12. I listened to mostly a.m. top thirty but soon I heard the term rock and roll and I was hooked. Painted my bedroom black, tin foil covering the windows, a black light and black light posters. I would then listen to Black Sabbath, etc. full blast.
In my early high school years a teacher introduced me to the singer songwriter genre and I was hooked. I grew up in a very troubled home and music was my escape. Stuff from Cat Stevens, Carole King, Simon & Garfunkle, etc. really touched me as they were singing about life, searching for answers just as I was. This love of lyrics helped prepare me for coming to faith in 1976.
Sadly I ended up in a church where I was told it was wrong to listen to anything that didn’t glorify Jesus. This included classical music and other music without lyrics. So I got rid of one impressive collection of LP’s there was.
The problem was I still loved the music and it didn’t help when the church would cover my old music by sanctifying it with words about Jesus. It was Walter Martin that helped me to understand my music wasn’t demonic when I attended a Q&A after listening to him speak of the cults.
So I’ve had the same music on vinyl, 8 track, cassette, CD and now digital formats. The music industry owes me big time! 🙂
I’m pretty much an oldies guy especially the 60’s and 70’s and the music is timeless. Then I discovered Christian music and I love praise & worship the most. It took me a long time as a believer to think for myself as I believed men of God were to be believed whenever they preached. I thought they were on a level God never intended.
But as the Beatles would say…. “it’s getting better all the time!.”
David H – I remember those “Sounds Like…” charts, and even had a paper printout several pages long! I remember seeing how convoluted their logic was at times in comparing, say, Journey to Farrel and Farrel! Cool that you saw Thin Lizzy in concert. I have a DVD of them playing their last tour (with John Sykes on guitar), and it is truly sad that Phil’s life was so corrupt.
Every time I hear the old saw that goes something like “look at what the natives in Africa did when they heard Christian Rock being played” I can’t help but to think of how racist and stupid that argument is.
I remember in my early Christian years how, even though I was supposed to be a good little Christian boy and eschew all secular music (which I tossed), I still had a secret place in my heart for Megadeth (Rust in Peace was just released) and Whitesnake (1987 was in play back then!).
Also early in my christian life I was struggling with whether Christian Rock was of the Lord. I no longer struggle with that issue. Asking whether it is of the Lord is silly anyways, because there are genuine musicians out there singing for the Lord, and there are phonies. God will sort it out in the end. When Styper was big, I remember a guy I knew saying that Stryper was a tool of the devil, and I think he even wrote it on the wall of our local Community College. I wish I could have told him back that maybe he was being a tool of the devil for saying such things without knowing their hearts. I guess listening to Stryper was supposed to lead me astray (which it didn’t) and make me listen to those evil secular counterparts, which I didn’t, back then anyways.
I have some quite a lot of Christian music, mostly pop, rock, metal, rap, a bit of country, and lots of praise and worship. Nowadays I pretty much can’t stand CCM music and the industry, for it seems to lack creativity and boldness. If I do listen to so-called CCM nowadays, it is mainly old Vineyard and Maranatha! praise music.
@ Dan from GA: both The Choir and the Choir are still making music. DA’s “Dig Here Said the Angel” made in 2013 is on my all -time favorite list. Great songs about death, mortality and grace.
Larry Norman really put it to Daniel Amos which was really sad.
Oden and the group did the one album and reunited for another in 1980 that was self produced. Oden did some solo work but they were all about going out and ministering to the lost.
When Oden, Bill Ketts, and Pedro Buford pastored at Koinionia something magical happened when they did worship.
I’m sure you know much more about Oden and the early days than I do surfer but getting to know those three was very special and our time at their church was beautiful. Bill and Pedro are now with the Lord.
Flap Your Wings was a great album. Came out right before Choir drummer/lyricist Steve Hindalong wrote “God of Wonders” and scored a monster hit with it.
I wish I had something to add to the music conversation.
Never listened to Christian music, still don’t.
Liked some Gospel music.
Have listened to Jerry Lee Lewis every day for 58 years.
Probably need rebaptized.
I have a question for David H @26 – “When I became a Christian in 1995, at Harvest, I was informed that I had to absolve myself I all of my “secular” music,”
Who told you that? Was it someone from the church staff in a class or was it just your buddies trying to get you straight?
I became a Christian at Harvest in 1981 – no one even asked what I listen to, hence no one told me what to stop listening to.
btw I was heavily into late 70s country – Moe Bandy – Mel Tillis – Charlie Pride – Johnny Rodriguez – Hank Jr – Conway Twitty etc.
That’s real music…we probably had similar country collections.
I know lots of people in CC who got rid of all their secular music…and are spending a fortune rebuying it now…
My wife and I went a few rounds about music in our first couple years or so. Interesting how neither of us had to give up the music we love – we just accepted the other’s taste as part of their charm. 🙂
Most of CCM is produced and recorded in Nashville, and sounds like it too. Probably why it all sounds the same also.
My wife is more into more contemporary Gospel music. Despite my interest in metal, rock, and electronic music, I really do enjoy some southern Gospel music as well as old country-western, like the Sons of the Pioneers!
Jerry Lee has been part of my life since the womb.
Mom wonders if she’s have changed the course of my life if she’d been listening to something milder when she was pregnant…
When I got older I would meet up with his tour in San Francisco…he was every bit as wild and dangerous as advertised.
He’s getting right with God now…
MLD, it was a staffer. In 1999 we moved on to a local CC that was even more legalistic about music. I wasn’t allowed to join the worship team because I was too “bluesy.” I’ve been a guitar player since I was 17. I played as a sideman for country bands for about five years (playing in bar bands was a pretty good deal. Waylon, Willie, Cash, Haggard, etc. I still love that music).
I loved these guys – the company that put these 2 together were genius. Moe Bandy and Joe Stampley. They were only together for perhaps 6 songs – but they were fun.
In my youth it was almost sinful to listen to any country music. I figure it was the rock and roll attitude we had and the stark differences between the genres.
I’m by no means a country fan outside of Johnny Cash but I can admit to enjoying some of the tunes from so long ago. My neighbor listens to only country in his garage and we congregate there a lot and I’ve come to appreciate it more.
It’s interesting the differences so many have in tastes of music. Thankfully there’s enough for all of us!
I still can’t listen to her without getting choked up.
T’s mom wanted to play a couple of her songs that she remembered…I didn’t do real well with it.
Music meant a lot to us here in the woods…
There is actually some really good new “Outlaw” Country music out there. You just won’t find it on the radio.
One of my favorites is a guy from Texas, Cody Jinks. He just put out a new album called “I’m Not The Devil.” In my opinion it’s a fantastic record. He’s a singer/songwriter with a lot of talent. He’ll probably never get huge because he doesn’t sing about pickup trucks, dirt roads, beer, and girls in shorts. Give the guy a listen. Here’s a youtube link to a song from his last album “Adobe Sessions.” It actually brings a tear to my eye every time hear it.
You see, the good stuff’s out there. I go searching for that music. There are sites like “Saving Country Music,” and “We Hate Pop Country” that will lead you in the direction of some really great music. And, they have the added bonus of making fun of Luke Bryan, Florida-Georgia Line, and Jason Adleen.
When they talk of radio play now it’s Spotify, Apple Music, and Pandora. Places to shill auto tuned “hick hop” pop country to the masses.
Michael, can’t say I get emotional about any artist that has passed away, but I do remember where I was when I heard that Stevie Ray Vaughn passed away (I am a guitar player too). I will probably tear up a bit when Gordon Lightfoot passes away. My dad was a HUGE fan of his and I have come to be a fan also!
Although I am not a huge country fan (don’t like modern country at all), I do appreciate the older stuff and love the fact that there is a down-home family current to it!
It’s an odd thing…the power of music.
I remember the day Elvis died like it was yesterday…it was the middle of the afternoon here and I could hear people screaming and wailing up and down the block…scared the hell out of me.
I respected him but wasn’t attached…many,many were.
Michael…true fans! I recall when Rich Mullins died very vividly, where I was, and who told me. One of the VERY few Christian musicians who, in my mind, really belonged in Christian music.
I deplore new country, I enjoy and have a great respect for old country although it’s not my favorite genre.
As for CCM, IMHO 99% is just blah. Generic, mass-produced without any heart or soul.
My listening tastes are drawn toward what some have called the Christian music ghetto. Bands and artists who refuse to be industry puppets, and thus get very little publicity/exposure.
One of my favorite all time bands is Lost Dogs, a mash-up of four artists from various groups (sort of like the Traveling Wilbury’s). Although their “home” bands are more rooted inrock, punk or alternative, they play a lot of country, Americana and roots style music that they grew up hearing because of their parents. They are incredibly adept at the transition. Since 1992 they have released 9 albums.
Their 2010 album “Old Angel” is a collection of songs that have a common thread between them: the classic roadway of Route 66. A few of the songs are rooted in the despair of the dust bowl:
“35 yrs later Melodie Green married my nephews wife’s dad.”
I can’t do the math – it was about 15 yrs later – but my nephew did not stay married to his wife and Melodie Green did not stay married to her father very long either.
Jinks’ is the real deal. I think he’s one of the best songwriters of his generation, and he tours like a madman. An old motor home and a trailer full of gear. He used to play in a metal band.
While we’re on this subject we could add Bill Gothard’s pronouncements about music. According to Gothard, music consists of rhythm, melody and harmony. And of course, every Gothardite knows we are three parts, body, soul and spirit. Melody “pertains to” the soul. Harmony “pertains to” the spirit. Rhythm “pertains to” the body.
So naturally, singing hymns a capella is the highest form of music, since it has all three in balance. And rock and roll, of course, is bad because it’s mostly rhythm with very little harmony.
Gothard often ended this talk by saying “Anybody who rejects this teaching is either immoral or stupid.”
It’s all yours today…
How comic books prepared me for tackling the scriptures.
Lessons from Dick Grayson
http://dswoager.wordpress.com/2016/08/19/lessons-from-dick-grayson/
I read this article it about short circuited my brain. It is a Baptist view of baptism of children.
They are speaking of the maturity one must have before being baptized;
” The kind of maturity that we feel it is wise to expect is the maturity which would allow that son or daughter to deal directly with the church as a whole, and not, fundamentally, to be under their parents’ authority. As they assume adult responsibilities (sometime in late high school with driving, employment, non-Christian friends, voting, legality of marriage), then part of this, we would think, would be to declare publicly their allegiance to Christ by baptism.”
It does put a new meaning to Adult Baptism. This is from a mainline and powerful Baptist Church.
http://www.capitolhillbaptist.org/ministries/children/baptism-of-children/
Dallas @1, thanks for the nice insight. The down side? Now I imagine you with a spandex suit, cape, and mask hanging in your closet. 🙂
MLD @2, please note that Capitol Hill is not your typical Baptist church. Their senior pastor is in the forefront of the Neo-Calvinism movement, along with Piper and the others. Sometimes that Neo-Cal/ Baptist mix comes out with odd rules.
Delaying baptism to make certain that a child understands what they are confessing through baptism is a typical Baptist stance, but claiming the delay is to make sure they are “mature” and no longer under their parents’ authority seems a new twist. But the Neo-Cals seem to obsess over everything “authority”, from pastoral authority to church discipline to men having authority over women.
Here’s a link to the PIneapple Head blog: http://www.kurtstaeuble.wordpress.com
Recent posts deal with focusing on Jesus, the “golden rule,” and how God sometimes uses irritants to get us to move.
Maybe this is just me overreacting, but every time I hear Baptist something in me wants to run away screaming….
Our oldest child tried out the local Baptist youth group because some of her friends from school were going. She pulled out of it when the leaders told her that, not only was her Lutheran baptism not valid, but she would have to be re-baptized with them to continue in the youth group.
MLD, the quote you posted above is just, well, weird to me. My kids have been “dealing directly with the church as a whole” for quite some time now, while still under their parents’ authority. They have already declared publicly their allegiance to Christ, occasionally in words, but mostly by their actions.
I think requiring young people to wait until they attain a certain maturity to be baptized, and making that a turning point, robs them of maturity and growth in Christ they may already have. It also puts the emphasis on what they have achieved instead of what Christ achieved for them.
Just my opinion.
Great blog Kurt.
***
Talking about baptism…
Ya but do we immerse completely or do we sprinkle?
Is it the activity or is it the internal experience?
***
Baptist always has translated in my brains filter as Legalist, religion.
Surfer,
I think the debate rages on – immersion or sprinkling. It really seems nitpicky to me, I think it’s pretty clear that the internal experience is what’s important.
I should add that I have met several Baptists over the years, and still have Baptist friends. We just disagree on a few things…..
maybe i just don’t take denominational demands as seriously as i should, but when the SBC would not recognize my Presbyterian sprinkling i went thru the immersion requirement as then my late husband and i were equally acceptable in the fellowship…
“Is it the activity or is it the internal experience?” for me it is most definitely the latter – how can an innocent baby “repent and be baptized?” … if you are a confessor of Jesus Christ as Savior (the “Lord” part takes time to actualize IMV), you really need to be baptized, but not doing so – unless it is from a heart of rebellion – will not keep you out of heaven… at some point in time one should feel the need of submission to the act, however – as i see it
the idea that baptism should occur simultaneous to get a driver’s license is almost humorous… a child can be baptized, making them wait for the church’s definition of an age requirement is skating on thin ice with God, i fear
I do love how all the Baptistic folks – this ranges from SBC, CC, the John MacArthur types etc all agree that baptism really does nothing, its a symbol of obedience, but you had better do it right and in many cases do it our way and in case of doubt do it over.
Those of us who baptize babies, believe that it means everything and have only 2 requirements – it be trinitarian and you get wet. We accept everyone’s baptism that contains those two and do not rebaptize.
Again, are we doing something for God – or is God, who is outside of us doing something to us?
EricL – Dever being a Neo Calvinist does not make him any less a Baptist. Just as Moehler is a kingpin SBC guy and Neo Calvinist.
MLD – nailed it.
And yes, it’s all about God doing. Not us doing.
From the Reverend Jonathan Fisk
The mortification of the flesh, the battle against sin, is won not by pretending we have overcome, but by calling it what it is.
The mark of the Christian is not that he ceases to sin, but that he ceases to justify his sin, ceases to love his sin, begins to despise it.
I was being facetious about the baptism comments…LOL
Because of the continuous debate of splash, sprinkle and immersion.
I got baptised as a baby by the Catholic church because of my mom’s family denomination, and then knowingly as a Christian in the Pacific ocean by Chuck Smith.
It was a moment that etched itself in my memory.
I came up out of the water with this incredible exhilaration and great joy.
Talking with others I have found it to be a common experience when people get baptized.
So my question to you guys is what was it like for you personally when you got baptized?
Did you have my experience, or was it just simply an obedient compliance to be baptized without any added experience as a result?
Oh man, I was busy being a jerk on the other thread, and didn’t realize that MLD was baiting me over here 🙂
EricL, I will back up what MLD says, Dever is completely within mainstream SBC.
Josh @ 15, would you agree with the article from Capitol Hill Baptist then? I don’t recall things being so delineated during my SBC days, but that was long ago when I was in my 20s. Even now, taking a quick look at the Baptist Faith and Message, I don’t see all that stuff about being mature or out from under your parent’s authority before getting baptised:
“Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer’s faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer’s death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead.”
Truly curious whether you find that CHBC views of delaying baptism until early adulthood reflect the SBC mainstream.
No, EricL, that really seems to be the opposite of the vast majority of SBC. I understand the problem that they are seeking to fix – young kids getting baptised, without really understanding, and falling away as teenagers. I think MLD’s idea for catechism classes are a much better answer than this.
Mixed feelings as I am about to watch The Tragically Hips last performance due to lead singer Gord Downies terminal brain cancer. Before I was born again, it was one of my fave bands. Then, I stopped listening to them in place of CC music. Hard transition…18 years later, it’s bittersweet to see this man give his final performance after 30 years. May God have mercy on his soul. Our lives are like a vapor. And even though I’m not supposed to listen to ” secular ” music. I’m gonna sneak a peek at the live stream being broadcast worldwide……
EricL, no cape, mask or spandex (none of those pixie boots Robin used to wear either) probably the goofiest thing in my closet is a Ben Roethlisberger jersey.
As far as delaying baptism goes, I seem to remember a lot of fairly young kids getting baptized during my time in the SBC. Though neither are SBC two of my best friends participated in believers baptism before the age of 10. They’re both great guys and solid believers, but I think it would be fair to say they both had a similar rebellious period to the one I had a am “unsaved” young person.
Bob (post 18)..wife and I prayed for Tony MacAlpine, a phenom on the guitar and piano. He had colon cancer, but has recently been given a clean bill of health. I hope and pray someday he recognizes just who gave him a second chance at life!
Yeah, there are lots of things we aren’t supposed to do (at least according to some individuals) to be considered “good Christians”, but hey, I think your post hints at there are bigger things at play other than keeping up appearances.
I am amazed at the talents given to many people, whether they know the Lord or not, and I am learning not to beat myself up for enjoying music, whether secular or in the CCM camp.
Secular music is the devils play ground…just kidding.
Remember in the 70’s when Christians were playing secular records back wards and coming up with all kinds of weird stuff.
There were demons lurking in every secular record it seemed.
Especially if you watched Matthew Crouch on TBN back then, he kind of got into it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf0M1G1At28
It all took place around the time Dave Hunt was prospering while in the spotlight.
The Salem Witch Trials of modern times in a sense…ok I’m stretching it.
Loved the Doobie Brothers Takin’ It to the Streets, and “It Keeps You Runnin’.
Also like POCO and Chicago.
Before a lot of peeps time I would expect.
surfer51…I love Chicago! I am in my late 40s so I am privy to music from the 70s! I still own a copy of Petra’s “More Power To Ya!” album…ALBUM I SAY! Anyways, on that album there is a song that clearly starts with a backward-masked portion, and if you play it backwards, it says “What are you looking for the devil for when you should be looking for the Lord?”
HA!
Bob and Dan…
When I became a Christian at 14, I converted all my cassettes to Christian music (taped over them from Christian radio)…..
I have since re-purchased many of the albums I taped over.
To me, music is music, whether it’s being used for God or not.
My wife introduced me to a lot of great 60’s and 70’s music which I still enjoy.
And I still have most of my old Christian stuff, which I still enjoy (including just about every Petra album….) Dan, you’re right around my age by the sounds of it.
I do have to admit it took me years to get over my legalistic views toward music.
One of my faves – Geoff Moore and the Distance, crankin out “Why should the devil have all the good music?”
Me too Owen. You and I have a similar story that I KNOW many other Christians share…repurchasing secular music we tossed at an earlier time.
Hey, I’ll be honest, I am on my 3rd copy of Coldplay’s X&Y!
Though pressed, I never let go of my “secular” music. I mean, there are some artists who are so anti-God that I didn’t enjoy listening to them, but I still enjoy a lot of regular artists…and a few Christian bands.
Music!
When I became a Christian in 1995, at Harvest, I was informed that I had to absolve myself I all of my “secular” music, so I parted with a significant collection of the Devil’s music. I kick myself for falling into that legalistic trap.
My former CC friends, who essentially abandoned me and my family, after we left that church, would conclude that I’m backslidden, and destined for Hell if they saw my iTunes collection today. And, yes I’m still a Christian.
After several years, my eclectic music collection is in good shape. I have an array of Classical music, Blues, Soul, Rock n Roll, Outlaw Country, Thrash Metal, Death Metal, Punk, Surf music, Enio Morricone, Jazz, Christian Metal, and all points in between.
God created melody, harmony, and rhythm, might as well enjoy it all.
David H, never heard of a style called “Morricone”…care to enlighten?
I like some of what you listed. I also listen to trance (Solarstone) and classic rock (Thin Lizzy).
Enio Morricone is the Italian composer who wrote the scores for dozens of “Spaghetti Westerns.” I love listening to his stuff. It reminds me of watching those old Westerns with my Dad.
Thin Lizzy was one of my favorite bands. I played guitar in a band that did “Cowboy Song,” and “The Emerald” back in the 80s.
“Spaghetti western” music is awesome. I never thought about listening to it apart from the films. Hmmmm…
I listen most to Bowie, Neil Finn, Neil Young, Elvis Costello. Although I should have been a child of 70s music, I really cut my teeth on the new wave/punk scene of the 80s. MTV had a bit to do with that, as well as growing up in So Cal, which was a hot bed for such artistry.
In the Christian realm a huge fan of anything with Terry S. Taylor (including Daniel Amos and Lost Dogs), The Choir and Undercover. (Hat tip to Bill Walden)
David H,
Enlighten me, too – “Spaghetti Westerns”?
Yeah, the whole music thing.
Nasty legalism.
IMO – Probably the best known Spaghetti western soundtrack: The Good, The Bad and the Ugly.
David H…I love that song “Emerald” by Thin Lizzy. My other favorite Lizzy songs are “Cold Sweat”, “Black Rose”, “Baby Please Don’t Go”, and a few others.
Pineapple Head (30)…I remember DA and The Choir. Somewhere floating around my house I have a DA tape (I THINK it was them) with the song “Hide the Beer the Pastor’s here” on it.
Ooooh, just checked,…it was the Swirling Eddies that did that song.
Oh, and the tape I have is “Dr. Edward Daniel Taylor: The Miracle Faith Telethon” – thanks to the internet and wikipedia!
Owen – “Spaghetti Westerns” were a genre of “Westerns” that were usually directed by Italian directors. Clint Eastwood starred in a lot of them. “For A Few Dollars More,” “A Fist Full of Dollars,” and “The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly,” are three of my favorites. By today’s standards they are pretty cheesy.
Pineapple Head – I had the good fortune of seeing Thin Lizzy a couple of times, once with Gary Moore. Phil Lynott was a great songwriter, but in the old Irish tradition of the poet, he was a screwed up mess. It was tragic that heroin took his life. He just couldn’t get his life straight.
Another Irishman I loved was Rory Gallagher. And, he like Lynott died too soon. In my opinion Gallagher was one of the greatest guitarists of all time.
Disillusioned – “nasty legalism” is apropos. In 1995, there I was a the ripe old age of 37, being made to feel like a lost teenager. Since I was late to the faith, and really new, I fell hook, line, and sinker. I really wish I had had the spine at that point to tell certain folks to leave my musical proclivities alone. Although I did realize that what they were saying was hogwash, I still went along for the ride. “Backwards masking” was a hoax. Sure, a lot of bands went for dark, and “evil,” but it was a way to sell product to angry kids. It’s hard to imagine Slayer writing a love song.
I’ve done a lot of personal research on the social/cultural aspects of Rock music. The roots of the anti-Rock/Pop music movement come directly out of the racism of some White Southerners (I’m putting on my fire suit). Southern preachers went after the devil rhythms, sexualized lyrics, and such because of the African American origins of the genre. You can find a lot of video footage of these preachers ranting about the “Evil power of Rock n Roll” on Youtube. As popular music evolved through the 60s the anti-RnR movement got more and more shrill. Rock and Roll was a Communist plot, a Satanic plot, an atheist plot, and on and on. The diatribes just kept morphing into different plots against conservative Protestant values.
Not so funny, but it actually is, I think that a lot of the focus was on the sound of the music (distorted guitars, heavy drumming, and screamed or yelled vocals), than anything else. By the late 60s, early 70s, the likes of Chuck Smith, and Contemporary Christian Music were adopting the same sound, in an effort to move product. You see, add some nice “Christian,” or “Biblical” lyrics, over the Rock n Roll, and people will buy it. In 1995, I remember going to “Christian” stores, and seeing a “sounds like” chart. You know, the chart that says if you liked Black Sabbath, you might like Petra, etc. See, their selling you a product with a different shell.
There are several websites that still proclaim the evils of Rock n Roll, but today they seem almost anachronistic, from a time past. Every form of music that is not from an old Baptist Hymnal is decried as evil. They are ODMs for music lovers.
Focus On the Family’s Plugged In website is particular amusing because it is such a polished site. They’ll happily tell you about how many cuss words are in a song (exact number of F words used on an album), sexual content, and positive content, and why you and your kids shouldn’t or should listen to it. For example they hate Metallica, and love Killswitch Engage (because Killswitch doesn’t cuss).
I did the backward masking thing with the Beatles, ELO, and Zeppelin. I’d put them on the turntable and make it go backwards. What I recall was that this fad didn’t begin in the church.
Music was literally my life starting at about age 12. I listened to mostly a.m. top thirty but soon I heard the term rock and roll and I was hooked. Painted my bedroom black, tin foil covering the windows, a black light and black light posters. I would then listen to Black Sabbath, etc. full blast.
In my early high school years a teacher introduced me to the singer songwriter genre and I was hooked. I grew up in a very troubled home and music was my escape. Stuff from Cat Stevens, Carole King, Simon & Garfunkle, etc. really touched me as they were singing about life, searching for answers just as I was. This love of lyrics helped prepare me for coming to faith in 1976.
Sadly I ended up in a church where I was told it was wrong to listen to anything that didn’t glorify Jesus. This included classical music and other music without lyrics. So I got rid of one impressive collection of LP’s there was.
The problem was I still loved the music and it didn’t help when the church would cover my old music by sanctifying it with words about Jesus. It was Walter Martin that helped me to understand my music wasn’t demonic when I attended a Q&A after listening to him speak of the cults.
So I’ve had the same music on vinyl, 8 track, cassette, CD and now digital formats. The music industry owes me big time! 🙂
I’m pretty much an oldies guy especially the 60’s and 70’s and the music is timeless. Then I discovered Christian music and I love praise & worship the most. It took me a long time as a believer to think for myself as I believed men of God were to be believed whenever they preached. I thought they were on a level God never intended.
But as the Beatles would say…. “it’s getting better all the time!.”
David H – I remember those “Sounds Like…” charts, and even had a paper printout several pages long! I remember seeing how convoluted their logic was at times in comparing, say, Journey to Farrel and Farrel! Cool that you saw Thin Lizzy in concert. I have a DVD of them playing their last tour (with John Sykes on guitar), and it is truly sad that Phil’s life was so corrupt.
Every time I hear the old saw that goes something like “look at what the natives in Africa did when they heard Christian Rock being played” I can’t help but to think of how racist and stupid that argument is.
I remember in my early Christian years how, even though I was supposed to be a good little Christian boy and eschew all secular music (which I tossed), I still had a secret place in my heart for Megadeth (Rust in Peace was just released) and Whitesnake (1987 was in play back then!).
Also early in my christian life I was struggling with whether Christian Rock was of the Lord. I no longer struggle with that issue. Asking whether it is of the Lord is silly anyways, because there are genuine musicians out there singing for the Lord, and there are phonies. God will sort it out in the end. When Styper was big, I remember a guy I knew saying that Stryper was a tool of the devil, and I think he even wrote it on the wall of our local Community College. I wish I could have told him back that maybe he was being a tool of the devil for saying such things without knowing their hearts. I guess listening to Stryper was supposed to lead me astray (which it didn’t) and make me listen to those evil secular counterparts, which I didn’t, back then anyways.
I have some quite a lot of Christian music, mostly pop, rock, metal, rap, a bit of country, and lots of praise and worship. Nowadays I pretty much can’t stand CCM music and the industry, for it seems to lack creativity and boldness. If I do listen to so-called CCM nowadays, it is mainly old Vineyard and Maranatha! praise music.
@ Dan from GA: both The Choir and the Choir are still making music. DA’s “Dig Here Said the Angel” made in 2013 is on my all -time favorite list. Great songs about death, mortality and grace.
MLD….thanks. Agree that baptism is about getting wet and the heart of the initiators (parents or adults).
Where is Babylon’s Dread? I miss his commentary and find value in what he posits.
Pineapple head…this talk of DA/Terry Taylor/Swirling Eddies really brings me back!
Daniel Amos
Daniel Amos was under appreciated in the early 70’s.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfkAr96Oz8w&list=PLxUfsQGrwX4s-fLu9Gy0zxgUXw-lRDwDQ&index=3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGYOeKKV85M
On a great audio system their sound was engineered perfectly and was on a par with any secular recognized band of the time.
But then so was Oden Fong’s music (Mustard Seed Faith) of the same era.
His records were incredible but for some odd reason never got promoted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWiKXEKsCJI&list=PL6EFBB93CAC5852B7
yeah, Groups like Daniel Amos, The Choir, et al were considered true Alternative music back in the 80s and 70s.
Larry Norman really put it to Daniel Amos which was really sad.
Oden and the group did the one album and reunited for another in 1980 that was self produced. Oden did some solo work but they were all about going out and ministering to the lost.
When Oden, Bill Ketts, and Pedro Buford pastored at Koinionia something magical happened when they did worship.
I’m sure you know much more about Oden and the early days than I do surfer but getting to know those three was very special and our time at their church was beautiful. Bill and Pedro are now with the Lord.
A couple more music notes:
The Choir released an album called SHADOW WEAVER in 2014. Great disc.
U2 was influenced by Daniel Amos. That’s quite a compliment.
I didn’t know that about U2. I like the song “Mercy Lives Here” by The Choir on their Flap Your Wings release.
Flap Your Wings was a great album. Came out right before Choir drummer/lyricist Steve Hindalong wrote “God of Wonders” and scored a monster hit with it.
Linnea,
BD is on vacation…
I wish I had something to add to the music conversation.
Never listened to Christian music, still don’t.
Liked some Gospel music.
Have listened to Jerry Lee Lewis every day for 58 years.
Probably need rebaptized.
Michael, you old heathen.
David H,
I am what I am. 🙂
I had a woman once tell me that if we were married Jerry Lee would be forbidden in house and car.
Only Christian music allowed.
I’m still single…
I have a question for David H @26 – “When I became a Christian in 1995, at Harvest, I was informed that I had to absolve myself I all of my “secular” music,”
Who told you that? Was it someone from the church staff in a class or was it just your buddies trying to get you straight?
I became a Christian at Harvest in 1981 – no one even asked what I listen to, hence no one told me what to stop listening to.
btw I was heavily into late 70s country – Moe Bandy – Mel Tillis – Charlie Pride – Johnny Rodriguez – Hank Jr – Conway Twitty etc.
MLD,
That’s real music…we probably had similar country collections.
I know lots of people in CC who got rid of all their secular music…and are spending a fortune rebuying it now…
Michael (#54)…in regards to not listening to CCM…
You’re not missing much.
And I really mean that.
MLD – I am about falling over…..
You are the first person (literally) I have met in the past 20 years who still enjoys the old, real country music!!
I grew up on it – I can still see my mother lightly dancing around the house to it -Charlie Pride, Hank Jr, Conway, Anne Murray, several others.
I have been loathe to admit to anyone that I still drag it out now and then. Country music is greatly frowned upon in my area.
Dan,
I find something every few years I like…my friends at Mystic Chapel for example.
Most of it always sounded like bad knockoffs of country, folk, or rock….
Now, old Gospel…I like that.
And Michael – Jerry Lee was a phenomenon.
My wife and I went a few rounds about music in our first couple years or so. Interesting how neither of us had to give up the music we love – we just accepted the other’s taste as part of their charm. 🙂
Owen,
I spent the afternoon the other day introducing Trey to Faron Young, George Jones, Haggard, Ray Price, etc…
Michael,
Welcome to the music conversation btw.
Most of CCM is produced and recorded in Nashville, and sounds like it too. Probably why it all sounds the same also.
My wife is more into more contemporary Gospel music. Despite my interest in metal, rock, and electronic music, I really do enjoy some southern Gospel music as well as old country-western, like the Sons of the Pioneers!
Despi
Owen,
Jerry Lee has been part of my life since the womb.
Mom wonders if she’s have changed the course of my life if she’d been listening to something milder when she was pregnant…
When I got older I would meet up with his tour in San Francisco…he was every bit as wild and dangerous as advertised.
He’s getting right with God now…
Huh, not sure what “Despi” means…haha
My father was into classic country music, so were some of my neighbors while I was growing up!
Dan,
I grew up with TSOTP…and Hank Sr.
There is a small shrine to Dottie Rambo in the house, though…
MLD, it was a staffer. In 1999 we moved on to a local CC that was even more legalistic about music. I wasn’t allowed to join the worship team because I was too “bluesy.” I’ve been a guitar player since I was 17. I played as a sideman for country bands for about five years (playing in bar bands was a pretty good deal. Waylon, Willie, Cash, Haggard, etc. I still love that music).
Damn it, MLD…you made me fire up iTunes to hear Rodriquez for the first time in years…I’m supposed to be in bed. 🙂
I loved these guys – the company that put these 2 together were genius. Moe Bandy and Joe Stampley. They were only together for perhaps 6 songs – but they were fun.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AK3JwZaQCM
This type of country tells stories and I like that. The country of today is too glitzy.
I grew up watching Hee Haw to on TV, so maybe that is where I have a soft spot in my heart for old country and western music!
I probably should also mention that if you hear Tammy Wynettes name and you don’t bow your head, I’ll knock your hat off….
Michael (72) do we have to bow towards Mississippi also?
Country music today is garbage.
I’ll be up till God knows when now listening to the good stuff…
Michael – that’s the advantage of getting old – we have a larger reservoir of memories. 🙂
Dan,
I don’t care which direction as long as it’s reverent. 🙂
I took a day off work when she died…
David H – since you are an Inland Empire guy – from 1977 – 1988 I lived in Mira Loma on horse property – I was the Urban Cowboy 🙂
MLD,
Yes we do.
I don’t listen to this stuff because so many of them are gone now…the sadness gets me.
Michael…now that’s being a true fan!
In my youth it was almost sinful to listen to any country music. I figure it was the rock and roll attitude we had and the stark differences between the genres.
I’m by no means a country fan outside of Johnny Cash but I can admit to enjoying some of the tunes from so long ago. My neighbor listens to only country in his garage and we congregate there a lot and I’ve come to appreciate it more.
It’s interesting the differences so many have in tastes of music. Thankfully there’s enough for all of us!
Dan,
I still can’t listen to her without getting choked up.
T’s mom wanted to play a couple of her songs that she remembered…I didn’t do real well with it.
Music meant a lot to us here in the woods…
Erunner,
It was that way among my friends.
I didn’t care.
They were all listening to Zeppelin and I was listening to Sun Records collections of Cash and JLL..
There is actually some really good new “Outlaw” Country music out there. You just won’t find it on the radio.
One of my favorites is a guy from Texas, Cody Jinks. He just put out a new album called “I’m Not The Devil.” In my opinion it’s a fantastic record. He’s a singer/songwriter with a lot of talent. He’ll probably never get huge because he doesn’t sing about pickup trucks, dirt roads, beer, and girls in shorts. Give the guy a listen. Here’s a youtube link to a song from his last album “Adobe Sessions.” It actually brings a tear to my eye every time hear it.
Here’s another Cody Jinks song. Also go check out White Morgan and the 78s.
The song is called “Cast No Stones.”
David H,
I stand corrected.
That was awesome…that’s real.
I’m gonna own that soon.
“You just won’t find it on the radio.”
What’s a radio? 😉
You see, the good stuff’s out there. I go searching for that music. There are sites like “Saving Country Music,” and “We Hate Pop Country” that will lead you in the direction of some really great music. And, they have the added bonus of making fun of Luke Bryan, Florida-Georgia Line, and Jason Adleen.
When they talk of radio play now it’s Spotify, Apple Music, and Pandora. Places to shill auto tuned “hick hop” pop country to the masses.
Michael, can’t say I get emotional about any artist that has passed away, but I do remember where I was when I heard that Stevie Ray Vaughn passed away (I am a guitar player too). I will probably tear up a bit when Gordon Lightfoot passes away. My dad was a HUGE fan of his and I have come to be a fan also!
Dan,
Many of these artists we’ve lost were like losing personal friends or family members…that’s what country used to be about.
I’m too emotional as most here will testify…I just tried to listen to Tammy and there’s snot all over my keyboard.
Should have been here the night when they mistakenly reported that Jerry had died…
SRV was awesome…
Although I am not a huge country fan (don’t like modern country at all), I do appreciate the older stuff and love the fact that there is a down-home family current to it!
It’s an odd thing…the power of music.
I remember the day Elvis died like it was yesterday…it was the middle of the afternoon here and I could hear people screaming and wailing up and down the block…scared the hell out of me.
I respected him but wasn’t attached…many,many were.
This has been like the old PhxP years ago…good stuff.
I have to lay down now…thanks to all of you for good conversation.
Michael…true fans! I recall when Rich Mullins died very vividly, where I was, and who told me. One of the VERY few Christian musicians who, in my mind, really belonged in Christian music.
Good night Michael. It was fun talking music with y’all. I have to finish up a few things at work and head home soon!
I think it is appalling the way money is a major driving force behind much of Christian music. And yet I like Michael W Smith et al.
I remember when Keith Green was killed and all the ladies at church were crying and the men upset. I had no idea who he was.
35 yrs later Melodie Green married my nephews wife’s dad.
David H, thanks for the links. I love Jinks! That was real.
I deplore new country, I enjoy and have a great respect for old country although it’s not my favorite genre.
As for CCM, IMHO 99% is just blah. Generic, mass-produced without any heart or soul.
My listening tastes are drawn toward what some have called the Christian music ghetto. Bands and artists who refuse to be industry puppets, and thus get very little publicity/exposure.
One of my favorite all time bands is Lost Dogs, a mash-up of four artists from various groups (sort of like the Traveling Wilbury’s). Although their “home” bands are more rooted inrock, punk or alternative, they play a lot of country, Americana and roots style music that they grew up hearing because of their parents. They are incredibly adept at the transition. Since 1992 they have released 9 albums.
Their 2010 album “Old Angel” is a collection of songs that have a common thread between them: the classic roadway of Route 66. A few of the songs are rooted in the despair of the dust bowl:
Dust in my Bowl: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdgddtOR00o
Pearl Moon (Hooverville Camp, 1932): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXIy319uuZc
Some songs rollick, others are reflective. Just great music that hardly anyone has heard of.
Note: Terry Taylor of Daniel Amos is behind the genius of this band.
“35 yrs later Melodie Green married my nephews wife’s dad.”
I can’t do the math – it was about 15 yrs later – but my nephew did not stay married to his wife and Melodie Green did not stay married to her father very long either.
“did not stay married to her father”
?!?!?!?!?!?!
Now we see one of the reasons why MLD is the way he is 🙂 How long should someone stay married to his daughter 🙂
Sorry MLD, I couldn’t resist…
MLD, I knew exactly what you meant. Must be an age thing. 😀
Sorry Josh – I didn’t mean to imply they were from the South. 😉
Jinks’ is the real deal. I think he’s one of the best songwriters of his generation, and he tours like a madman. An old motor home and a trailer full of gear. He used to play in a metal band.
While we’re on this subject we could add Bill Gothard’s pronouncements about music. According to Gothard, music consists of rhythm, melody and harmony. And of course, every Gothardite knows we are three parts, body, soul and spirit. Melody “pertains to” the soul. Harmony “pertains to” the spirit. Rhythm “pertains to” the body.
So naturally, singing hymns a capella is the highest form of music, since it has all three in balance. And rock and roll, of course, is bad because it’s mostly rhythm with very little harmony.
Gothard often ended this talk by saying “Anybody who rejects this teaching is either immoral or stupid.”