Still struggling with election fallout. Not that Trump is pres. Just being surrounded by politically conservative evangelical friends and fam. I sense a giant rift in my own heart towards these folks. Thank you for TGIF yesterday. I know I’m not the only one who is struggling with this.
I think gratitude to Jesus is the only way forward in healing my own heart towards those i disagree with. This is not a profound thought. Just a practical one. Im not there yet and it may take a while.
You are not alone. I think there are a number of us who are struggling. For myself, I no longer feel that I can self-identify as an “evangelical” simply because of the baggage being attached to that label. Maybe it is for the best. Perhaps we simply need to consider ourselves as “Christians” and spend some time in discerning what is of value in the evangelical tradition and what is merely cultural.
for those who feel that a Trump presidency threatens the foundations of the Republic, don’t give up as the Democrats are working hard behind the scenes hoping to persuade enough delegates to the electoral college to change their vote to bring the office back to their candidate… it’s not a done deal yet
for the record, IMV these demonstrations so-called have a purpose – so…
be careful what you pray for as the saying goes… the Kingdom of our Lord does not arrive by popular vote as i read the Book… or by “tweeking” the Electoral College next month either
just praying for the good of the country pure and simple might work, eh?
Away from politics. In view of the current dust up going on in the Calvary Chapel denomination about the proper way to handle scripture, I offer this.
For the uninitiated, you need to watch this video – this is how a Lutheran preaches – without reading the text (no line by line – verse by verse), speaking of the issue and then making it all about Jesus and in the end leaves you nothing to do (no list), he heaps no guilt on you for not living up to scripture – why? because it has all been done for you. – and this is speaking to Christians – not the seekers or unbelievers.
That was a good sermon.
Unfortunately, very few of us could do something that well consistently over the weeks and without riding a hobby horse…this guy is obviously very gifted, more so than most.
I like this guy and this message. It’s kind of weird for me to enjoy a message where not a word was read from the Bible. Not saying it’s wrong, just weird for me. It was well done. Thanks for sharing MLD.
I am pretty much trying to draw out the difference between ‘preaching’ God’s word vs doing a Bible study. There is a big difference and I don’t know that a CC pastor has ever ‘preached’ a sermon – but had only done various style Bible studies.
What the CC v CCA debate seems to be is which is the best way to teach a Bible study and preaching a sermon never enters the discussion.
I just need to clarify this CCA vs. Brodersen issue again.
I don’t think it’s about anything but a raw grab for power and the issue of biblical fidelity has been answered over and over again, most recently on these pages by Steve Wright.
What the CCA and the ODM’s are doing to a Brodersen is unconscionable and, quite frankly, evil.
There are a multiplicity of ways to communicate the Word of God to a congregation…
“The rare individual who exemplifies them-genuine purity and humility, death to selfishness, freedom from rage and depression, and so on-will stand out in the group with all the obtrusiveness of a sore thumb. He or she will be a constant hindrance in the group processes and will be personally conflicted by those processes, for he or she will not be living on the same terms as others.” ~ Dallas Willard, Renovation of the Heart p. 48
MLD, it was impressive. Not so sure many can pull it off the way Riley does. It does prove that you don’t need to read word for word to teach the Bible. I especially liked his use of cross references without citing chapter and verse.
Tomorrow is the end of the church calendar year for the church – so I am sure the sermon will be on the crucifixion – well in fact I know it is – Luke 23
The following week begins Advent and many think it is the preparation time for Christmas … and this is only partially true. Advent is the time that we wait in anticipation and we wait to remember / reflect on the comings of Christ
When Jesus came into the world
When Jesus came to us / me
When Jesus wiull return
The first Sunday of Advent – the reading is Matthew 21
Michael, re; your #14. I have worked or had encounters with BB as well as with 4 of the self appointed council leaders. Every encounter with the guys I worked with from the so called Council, left a bad taste in my mouth. I can’t say the same for BB. BB was always accessible, understanding and kind.
#14
Michael, not really having “a dog in the hunt”, I would agree that it is a power grab, but I think it is something more. The last time I talked with Chuck Smith was in the early 70s. I was visiting California and I told him that I was thinking about starting a coffeehouse or CC type Bible Study in Ohio. I asked him for advice. He said that I should pray and follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit… then he prayed with me. No doctrinaire suggestions as to how I should lead a Bible Study. Nothing but, “pray and follow the Spirit”.
As you know from our correspondence, I’ve always had a soft spot for Chuck. I never thought he was perfect. I never thought, then or now, that “he had the answer”. I honor him for the great work he accomplished and, as for his failures, I recognize that he was sinner saved by grace like all of us. The Chuck I knew back then, frankly would be appalled at people setting him up as “THE” model of ministry. I personally think it comes close to a form of idolatry. Just my opinion…
I don’t have a problem critiquing people who have done wrong, as we all know.
There are some things that I could critique BB over and have done so.
My problem is when the critique is dishonest and motivated by carnality…and whether the rank and file want to believe it or not, that’s whats fueling all of this.
I share that opinion…
The idolatry is baked into the system and some tyrants know how to use it for their personal gain…it is a tool of great manipulation.
I totally agree. If you go back to my post, I never said he was a great teacher or a great leader. I have struggled with the integrity with some of the others and because of that, question their motives.
As a side note. I pastor a church of just over 100 people. There is no way I would have time to set up, recruit and pursue a new coalition. I’m not so sure that this is something God would put on a pastor’s heart. Doesn’t Peter say a word or two about shepherds and motives?
MLD,
Thanks for sharing Riley’s sermon. Very good stuff. This is why believers need to hear the Gospel. So, that Jesus can come after us when we wander off after idols.
The Pharisee and the Tax Collector – Dan Van Voorhis
Jeff Mallinson above #24 & Van Voorhis are both professors at Concordia – Irvine and they team up on the podcast Virtue in the Wasteland – probably the finest podcast dealing with culture, philosophy and faith. Pick one and give it a try.
MLD, I watched the video at #10. He reminded me of Skip Heitzig with his skinny jeans! 🙂 I enjoyed listening to him but have to say I’ve heard the things he shared in a verse by verse study.
He threw in some jokes but for the most part I have heard what he shared before. His presentation was different and I could listen to a man like him teach.
I’m not going to knock him and I won’t knock others who faithfully share the text as is their style.
I wasn’t expecting a Lutheran without the garments I’ve seen when visiting a Lutheran church. That caught me a bit off guard as that shows how much I don’t know about Lutherans and for that matter other denominations.
The only experience I’ve had with BB is this; a friend was having a difficult time at her CC, she started going to CCCM, BB was glad to speak with her have her at services but advised her to speak with her pastor to voice her concerns. To try and work things out. No sheep stealing no bad mouthing just a concern for the whole body of Christ. Oh at the pastor in question is part of the CCA.
There’s about 650 miles of barriers up out of a 1290 mile border.
Logistically, a lot of what is left is economically and environmentally unfeasible to build on.
What they will do is build out the visible areas and try to funnel migrants into places that are the most dangerous…which is how you get 200 plus bodies in the one Arizona sector.
The other thing you’ll see happening is the cartels moving migrants like they move dope…in trucks through ports of entry.
The cost of crossing goes up, but it’s a much cleaner process for them.
How many agents do you have to pay off to get through a port?
One.
It’s staggering to me that people could think that most of the 50 billion dollars worth of dope sold in this country is packed over the desert…
It’s over three grand now…and you don’t get a refund if you get caught.
I didn’t touch on the billions of dollars of tech installed on the border and the glut of BP officers.
The defense industry and the BP union has never been happier…both will grow exponentially to stop the flow of Mexican migrants north…that hasn’t existed for at least five years.
Walls aren’t great security, but they’re incredible symbols.
It’s all yours today…
Early film of Hillary and Donald! Enjoy!! 🙂
Still struggling with election fallout. Not that Trump is pres. Just being surrounded by politically conservative evangelical friends and fam. I sense a giant rift in my own heart towards these folks. Thank you for TGIF yesterday. I know I’m not the only one who is struggling with this.
I think gratitude to Jesus is the only way forward in healing my own heart towards those i disagree with. This is not a profound thought. Just a practical one. Im not there yet and it may take a while.
Thanks for letting me confess here. 🙂
Joel, realizing it and working towards healing you may need is an excellent heart. God bless!
JoelG,
Trust me, you’re not the only one.
I was hoping for a return to decency and civility but that boat has sailed culturally…
Joel
You are not alone. I think there are a number of us who are struggling. For myself, I no longer feel that I can self-identify as an “evangelical” simply because of the baggage being attached to that label. Maybe it is for the best. Perhaps we simply need to consider ourselves as “Christians” and spend some time in discerning what is of value in the evangelical tradition and what is merely cultural.
JoelG,
“I sense a giant rift in my own heart towards these folks. ”
Go ask them for forgiveness.
for those who feel that a Trump presidency threatens the foundations of the Republic, don’t give up as the Democrats are working hard behind the scenes hoping to persuade enough delegates to the electoral college to change their vote to bring the office back to their candidate… it’s not a done deal yet
for the record, IMV these demonstrations so-called have a purpose – so…
be careful what you pray for as the saying goes… the Kingdom of our Lord does not arrive by popular vote as i read the Book… or by “tweeking” the Electoral College next month either
just praying for the good of the country pure and simple might work, eh?
Thank you Erunner, Michael, Duane and MLD. I will MLD.
Good thoughts Em
Away from politics. In view of the current dust up going on in the Calvary Chapel denomination about the proper way to handle scripture, I offer this.
For the uninitiated, you need to watch this video – this is how a Lutheran preaches – without reading the text (no line by line – verse by verse), speaking of the issue and then making it all about Jesus and in the end leaves you nothing to do (no list), he heaps no guilt on you for not living up to scripture – why? because it has all been done for you. – and this is speaking to Christians – not the seekers or unbelievers.
That was a good sermon.
Unfortunately, very few of us could do something that well consistently over the weeks and without riding a hobby horse…this guy is obviously very gifted, more so than most.
I like this guy and this message. It’s kind of weird for me to enjoy a message where not a word was read from the Bible. Not saying it’s wrong, just weird for me. It was well done. Thanks for sharing MLD.
Covered,
and yet it was all Bible 🙂
I am pretty much trying to draw out the difference between ‘preaching’ God’s word vs doing a Bible study. There is a big difference and I don’t know that a CC pastor has ever ‘preached’ a sermon – but had only done various style Bible studies.
What the CC v CCA debate seems to be is which is the best way to teach a Bible study and preaching a sermon never enters the discussion.
I just need to clarify this CCA vs. Brodersen issue again.
I don’t think it’s about anything but a raw grab for power and the issue of biblical fidelity has been answered over and over again, most recently on these pages by Steve Wright.
What the CCA and the ODM’s are doing to a Brodersen is unconscionable and, quite frankly, evil.
There are a multiplicity of ways to communicate the Word of God to a congregation…
The thought for the day…
“The rare individual who exemplifies them-genuine purity and humility, death to selfishness, freedom from rage and depression, and so on-will stand out in the group with all the obtrusiveness of a sore thumb. He or she will be a constant hindrance in the group processes and will be personally conflicted by those processes, for he or she will not be living on the same terms as others.” ~ Dallas Willard, Renovation of the Heart p. 48
MLD, it was impressive. Not so sure many can pull it off the way Riley does. It does prove that you don’t need to read word for word to teach the Bible. I especially liked his use of cross references without citing chapter and verse.
Tomorrow is the end of the church calendar year for the church – so I am sure the sermon will be on the crucifixion – well in fact I know it is – Luke 23
The following week begins Advent and many think it is the preparation time for Christmas … and this is only partially true. Advent is the time that we wait in anticipation and we wait to remember / reflect on the comings of Christ
When Jesus came into the world
When Jesus came to us / me
When Jesus wiull return
The first Sunday of Advent – the reading is Matthew 21
Michael, re; your #14. I have worked or had encounters with BB as well as with 4 of the self appointed council leaders. Every encounter with the guys I worked with from the so called Council, left a bad taste in my mouth. I can’t say the same for BB. BB was always accessible, understanding and kind.
#14
Michael, not really having “a dog in the hunt”, I would agree that it is a power grab, but I think it is something more. The last time I talked with Chuck Smith was in the early 70s. I was visiting California and I told him that I was thinking about starting a coffeehouse or CC type Bible Study in Ohio. I asked him for advice. He said that I should pray and follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit… then he prayed with me. No doctrinaire suggestions as to how I should lead a Bible Study. Nothing but, “pray and follow the Spirit”.
As you know from our correspondence, I’ve always had a soft spot for Chuck. I never thought he was perfect. I never thought, then or now, that “he had the answer”. I honor him for the great work he accomplished and, as for his failures, I recognize that he was sinner saved by grace like all of us. The Chuck I knew back then, frankly would be appalled at people setting him up as “THE” model of ministry. I personally think it comes close to a form of idolatry. Just my opinion…
covered,
I don’t have a problem critiquing people who have done wrong, as we all know.
There are some things that I could critique BB over and have done so.
My problem is when the critique is dishonest and motivated by carnality…and whether the rank and file want to believe it or not, that’s whats fueling all of this.
Duane,
I share that opinion…
The idolatry is baked into the system and some tyrants know how to use it for their personal gain…it is a tool of great manipulation.
I totally agree. If you go back to my post, I never said he was a great teacher or a great leader. I have struggled with the integrity with some of the others and because of that, question their motives.
As a side note. I pastor a church of just over 100 people. There is no way I would have time to set up, recruit and pursue a new coalition. I’m not so sure that this is something God would put on a pastor’s heart. Doesn’t Peter say a word or two about shepherds and motives?
MLD,
Thanks for sharing Riley’s sermon. Very good stuff. This is why believers need to hear the Gospel. So, that Jesus can come after us when we wander off after idols.
Here is a different, if not unique teaching on the anti wisdom in the Bible.
Like the previous on, it’s not your typical ‘let’s cover these 10 verses in the Bible.
The Pharisee and the Tax Collector – Dan Van Voorhis
Jeff Mallinson above #24 & Van Voorhis are both professors at Concordia – Irvine and they team up on the podcast Virtue in the Wasteland – probably the finest podcast dealing with culture, philosophy and faith. Pick one and give it a try.
http://www.virtueinthewasteland.com/
MLD, I watched the video at #10. He reminded me of Skip Heitzig with his skinny jeans! 🙂 I enjoyed listening to him but have to say I’ve heard the things he shared in a verse by verse study.
He threw in some jokes but for the most part I have heard what he shared before. His presentation was different and I could listen to a man like him teach.
I’m not going to knock him and I won’t knock others who faithfully share the text as is their style.
I wasn’t expecting a Lutheran without the garments I’ve seen when visiting a Lutheran church. That caught me a bit off guard as that shows how much I don’t know about Lutherans and for that matter other denominations.
Thanks for sharing the video.
Praying for paige and her 4 boys
For linnea a,d her sister
For ebrother and his mom
For ebrother and his wife
For michael
For steve
For em’s friends
Michael Praying for your pendimg surgeries. Mey God guide the hands and minds of the drs.
Michael,
How much of DT’s boarder wall is already there?
Thanks, Dusty!
The only experience I’ve had with BB is this; a friend was having a difficult time at her CC, she started going to CCCM, BB was glad to speak with her have her at services but advised her to speak with her pastor to voice her concerns. To try and work things out. No sheep stealing no bad mouthing just a concern for the whole body of Christ. Oh at the pastor in question is part of the CCA.
JTK,
There’s about 650 miles of barriers up out of a 1290 mile border.
Logistically, a lot of what is left is economically and environmentally unfeasible to build on.
What they will do is build out the visible areas and try to funnel migrants into places that are the most dangerous…which is how you get 200 plus bodies in the one Arizona sector.
E, the point was what you didn’t hear in his presentation.
JTK,
The other thing you’ll see happening is the cartels moving migrants like they move dope…in trucks through ports of entry.
The cost of crossing goes up, but it’s a much cleaner process for them.
How many agents do you have to pay off to get through a port?
One.
It’s staggering to me that people could think that most of the 50 billion dollars worth of dope sold in this country is packed over the desert…
What the border looks like now…
http://www.nbcnews.com/slideshow/u-s-mexico-border-now-n685936
Thanks, Michael!
Exactly the facts and insight I was going for.
I had read in Jorge Ramos’ “Dying to across” that the fee for coyotes went from hundreds to $2500 per person. Old numbers, to be sure.
I didn’t know that about the cartels, but that all points in the same direction.
JTK,
It’s over three grand now…and you don’t get a refund if you get caught.
I didn’t touch on the billions of dollars of tech installed on the border and the glut of BP officers.
The defense industry and the BP union has never been happier…both will grow exponentially to stop the flow of Mexican migrants north…that hasn’t existed for at least five years.
Walls aren’t great security, but they’re incredible symbols.