My mother was born in 1916, and was 6′ 2″. To put that in perspective, she was over a foot taller than Miss America in those years. She contracted MS as a teen and was frequently bedridden. From the upper class she married a brilliant but eccentric man from a lower class, and had three children by Caesarean, until he died leaving her penniless in a hick redneck town with three small children. She raised them to have five college degrees and her 13 grandchildren.
At her memorial service in 2001, in an Episcopal church, we sang “A Mighty Fortress”, and the presence of God was magnificent. She is running through the fields of heaven now.
Here’s to you, Abby. Thanks for the years of selfless devotion.
There’s a great post today titled “I Have My Doubts”.
Does the imonk read this blog? It just occurred to me, maybe he wrote it after reading 1Cor 1-17?? Haha, wouldn’t that be ironic?
Anyways… I couldn’t follow the debate that ensued over 1 Cor 1-17, please excuse my lack of theology training. But the little bit I caught was, “do we ever really know?”
I’m going on a limb here, maybe jeopardizing any future I have in ministry (oh who am I kidding? I did that long ago…) and I’m going to agree with imonk and say, “No. No one really knows. And those that say they do, are stuffing their doubt, out of fear.” I know that I have my doubts, but I continue to trust the Lord. That’s what I see as faith, I don’t know what’s going on, I even doubt the validity of it all, but I cling on to the hope that it exists.
Anyways, I highly recommend his post and his blog. Very interesting stuff. I know there’s a lot here that feel publicly expressing their doubt would be a big no-no. It may be reassuring and a blessing to read that you’re not alone.
PP Vet, i am not certain, but i believe that “A Mighty Fortress is our God” was the hymn that Teddy Roosevelt had requested, when the time came, be sung at his funeral
As I sit and think, “why are so many people so negative toward other people?” I begin to realize that, that is the nature of humanity. Not specifically for the nature to be negative towards other people but the nature of negativity applying to humanity in general.
Then I began to realize that it is a well accepted fact to agree with “survival of the fittest” (and it is viewed as a good thing). This fits in with the negativity of people perfectly. They forget the fact that the survival of the fittest is in reference to the ones that possess inner strength to survive themselves, mistakenly assuming it means that In order to be the one to survive, you must destroy another.
World history is war after war, after war, after war; and does not stop. Crime prevails predominately with people attacking other people for a multitude of reasons, starting with Cain and Abel.
Then I begin to think what nature really is. It is natural to breathe. It is natural to have five senses. It is natural to love and it is also natural to hate.
That is the point that I find my answer as to why negativity applies to humanity in general.
IT DOES NOT.
All things natural are not controlled by a person, including the things a person does “naturally”. Experiencing hate is just as natural as experiencing love. It is when we take action of a natural experience out of its original context that we make a choice of it turning into a negative. Just like if I hold my breath for 30 SECONDS because I am going to dive in the water is a positive, but if I hold my breath for 30 MINUTES because I want to show how tuff I am it turns into a negative. Contexts matters.
Therefore I believe that negativity does NOT apply to humanity in general. Negativity applies to humanity acting outside the context of nature. Regardless of how COMMON it is for a person to take negative action, it is not NATURAL.
What? No hockey comments yet? Sorry the Kings lost (not really, just trying to be polite 🙂 ) happy the Penguins won and am watching the Ducks tied against Vancouver.
“Negativity applies to humanity acting outside the context of nature. Regardless of how COMMON it is for a person to take negative action, it is not NATURAL.”
Although the Apostle Paul is trusted less here than a used car salesman, I think he would disagree with your comment. In Galatians 5, when he speaks to the Works of the Flesh (man’s natural self) he lists these items among some others;
My opinion may not be heeded, but I will go out on a limb and say those are pretty negative attitudes and actions. It takes an unnatural act, the filling by the Holy Spirit to reverse what is natural.
I agree, ” enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, ” are in fact natural. However you did not apply what I said to the context of what followed, when I said, “… Experiencing hate is just as natural as experiencing love. It is when we take action of a natural experience ‘OUT OF ITS ORIGINAL CONTEXT THAT WE MAKE A CHOICE OF IT TURNING INTO A NEGATIVE’.” And…, “….Negativity applies to humanity ACTING outside the context of nature.”
I was not clear about it, but I was referring to a person’s negative ACTIONS, not their feelings or their experiences. I can write four more pages to try to explain what I meant but I will spare you.
I never commented that there is no negativity experienced by a human, I was merely expressing that it is not a NATURAL reality for man/woman to take negative action (especially towards another man/woman), it is a choice.
Perhaps I did not clarify my point, or perhaps you simply disagree. Either way, I apologize if anyone took what I said as claiming it to be an absolute. It is just my opinion and that is all.
Cool tribute PP Vet. Wish I could give the same about my mom, but it is what it is. Happy for you and yours that your momma inspired that kind of tribute.
I am hopeful (and fully expecting) that my wife will leave a similar lasting impression as she is a wonderful mother. To the good moms out there! Your Position in this existence is so important, so powerful, so influential and foundational. God bless the moms!
Alex, love your wife, encourage her, support her, love your kids and you too can leave behind a legacy of love, rather than pain and abuse. I pray the Lord will give you and your wife older friends that can be surrogate grandparents to your children and a source of reminding them how precious they are. I continue to pray for your family situation and that the Lord will do a miraculous healing and restoration.
#12 hmmm, i’m not digital, not analog, not even a man … and what’s not natural? it’s the ballyhoo ( 🙄 ) that the U.S. raises in D.C. on Inauguration Day … you’d think that the winner got the pot of gold away from the leprechaun instead the responsibility to guide a ship of state thru extremely dangerous waters
Actually, inauguration day should be celebrated with all the pomp and circumstance that surrounds it. We do not celebrate the man, but the fact that we change government leaders peacefully and in order as laid out in our constitution.
MLD, doesn’t much look like pomp and circumstance to me – it looks like frantic revelry – the ceremonial swearing in and the President’s address following excepted, perhaps – even the parade is … dunno … just not done right? but we are Yankee doodles, i guess
and since, i’m the resident grouch this morning (it’s natural 😆 ) … it does seem wrong for Alex to mention or even allude to his mother’s culpability on any open forum such as this … the principle of Genesis 9:23 may apply … speaking as one who has been convicted and asked God’s forgiveness for speaking of my own mother’s shortcomings to no good purpose, but perhaps self justification …
Cranky,
I am guessing Em had in mind the premise of Honouring your mother and Father, and was referring to the Gen. story as an example. That was my take on it.
My take on Gen 9:23 is different Cyber Crank, Shem and Japeth honored their father (walked backward and covered him) even though he had acted foolishly (passed out drunk in his tent). Ham saw his father didn’t look away and then spread the story to others. It is obvious from this little story who took the right actions.
thank you, Nonnie and D.T., – that’s exactly what i meant and i feel no need to clarify or apologize for C.C’s sake – tho, i do feel sorry for folks with no real life analytical skills
this would not be a good day to take me on … i’m not feeling any need to pander to blog political correctness at all – God help me
That was a kind response to Alex, Noonie. Very Shem and Japeth You covered his supposed shame by adding to his positive post about his wife and not mentioning the supposed negative (non politically correct) very small post about his mom (a little Hammy IMO).
I disagree with Em’s assertion, not applicable in the manner it is presented, but as always folks are entitled to their opinions, and there are many differences of opinion on that particular issue.
Interesting statement by Jesus here, not sure if it applies or not, but certainly worth considering: 48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Sometimes stuff is what it is and lying about it or sugar-coating it isn’t what Jesus calls us to…nor is (necessarily) ignoring it and not speaking to it.
But, Em, if that is what you are convinced of in your Conscience, then as Scripture says it is probably “sin” to you to do otherwise if that is your sincere conviction…so good that you do as your Conscience has told you.
Nonnie, thanks, fortunately we have a couple of awesome Grandmas. My wife’s mom is a great Godly example (a little too fundamentalist for me 🙂 but a wonderful woman who treats the kids very very well, as well as Grandpa who is a great dad and awesome example of loving leadership). My step-mom is a really kind person and a good influence as well.
Em said, “this would not be a good day to take me on … i’m not feeling any need to pander to blog political correctness at all – God help me”
LOL 🙂 Let it rip Em…I can’t stand political correctness and would rather have the raw honest take from folks rather than false piety or patronizing any day.
I love that about you…you are a wise and sweet woman, but you have a strong ornery side that is very likable.
Nonnie, God has a way of filling in the Gaps. Thank God for good Grandmas! They are so important, just like good mommas! I admire good moms and grandmas very much, some take it for granted, I don’t.
if Alex and MLD enjoy sparring – the pointless, but cathartic wrestling – i don’t care, however, i skip reading their give and take; i’m too old to find it entertaining
over time Alex has been quite successful in sidestepping a point or blurring one by raising straw dogs – too often here the bait is taken with a whack at the dog and then the rest of the thread is consumed chasing after and grasping at the now scattered straw(s) … to compare the culpability of Noah to that of Mrs. Grenier falls in this category today or blatantly side-steps the point – as does the quote from Matthew 12
when there is a parsing of words ignoring content or context, whether it is an intentional sidestep or a blind one, it just isn’t worth my effort to respond … there’s a Proverb or two that deal with this … and folk more patient and gracious than me to put up with it
predictably not the last word, but this is my last word …
Em,
” it does seem wrong for Alex to mention or even allude to his mother’s culpability on any open forum such as this ”
Is this a gender bias?
rip dad = OK
rip mom = get bible verses thrown back at you?
Now, for a moment, I will move away from Alex’s mom and speak in general. Has not society often held the mother more culpable in these types of situation since we seem to look at moms as the last bastion of child protection?.
Something to consider, I make a comment on an open thread that I consider rather benign and others jump on and turn the thread toward me…then I often get blamed for “this always ends up about you!”
Fickle, fickle, fickle folks. Often, IMO, I make comments (as others do) and others jump on and “make” it about me. Why don’t you talk about something else por favor? Cats are always a good subject or maybe football or maybe something less controversial like Armenianism vs. Calvinism LOL
#49 – perhaps i need to clarify, CK: i agree that we can’t know and shouldn’t judge her culpability – but what concerns me is the public airing of a mother’s perceived sins by her son – questions regarding her behavior should be met by his silence outside of his family circle and perhaps, even there also …
Em,
Thing is ,evil continues when it remains hidden, covered up, behind closed doors of “family” or “church” or “tribe”. Look at the backward practices of some faiths and cultures that savage the abused victims because their revelations bring “shame” on these units.
If a parent is doing the kind of crap that people want to cover up then it really should be uncovered and revealed for the outrageous and reprehensible horror that it is and no family member should ever be derided when they expose it.
G., you miss my point entirely – but you make yours clearly, you think that i advocate suppressing accountability in favor of keeping up appearances? – if you do, so must the average person reading here – i find that offensive and sad and have nothing more to answer, neither rejoinder nor platitude 😐
It’s all yours today.
Music is up for the week. Feel free to drop by.
http://morethancoping.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/praise-worship-january-18th-2012/
One response? By 3 PM? That’s unacceptable!
I will write a tribute to my mother.
My mother was born in 1916, and was 6′ 2″. To put that in perspective, she was over a foot taller than Miss America in those years. She contracted MS as a teen and was frequently bedridden. From the upper class she married a brilliant but eccentric man from a lower class, and had three children by Caesarean, until he died leaving her penniless in a hick redneck town with three small children. She raised them to have five college degrees and her 13 grandchildren.
At her memorial service in 2001, in an Episcopal church, we sang “A Mighty Fortress”, and the presence of God was magnificent. She is running through the fields of heaven now.
Here’s to you, Abby. Thanks for the years of selfless devotion.
PP Vet, what a wonderful story – perhaps, there was a reason no one had posted here today 😎
to Abby as she runs …
P.P. Vet….Her children will rise up and call her blessed. What a wonderful tribute to your mom!
Someone gave me this link to this blog and I’ve been so blessed by it
http://www.internetmonk.com/
There’s a great post today titled “I Have My Doubts”.
Does the imonk read this blog? It just occurred to me, maybe he wrote it after reading 1Cor 1-17?? Haha, wouldn’t that be ironic?
Anyways… I couldn’t follow the debate that ensued over 1 Cor 1-17, please excuse my lack of theology training. But the little bit I caught was, “do we ever really know?”
I’m going on a limb here, maybe jeopardizing any future I have in ministry (oh who am I kidding? I did that long ago…) and I’m going to agree with imonk and say, “No. No one really knows. And those that say they do, are stuffing their doubt, out of fear.” I know that I have my doubts, but I continue to trust the Lord. That’s what I see as faith, I don’t know what’s going on, I even doubt the validity of it all, but I cling on to the hope that it exists.
Anyways, I highly recommend his post and his blog. Very interesting stuff. I know there’s a lot here that feel publicly expressing their doubt would be a big no-no. It may be reassuring and a blessing to read that you’re not alone.
That is an awesome tribute PP Vet. Thank you.
Great tribute!
PP Vet, i am not certain, but i believe that “A Mighty Fortress is our God” was the hymn that Teddy Roosevelt had requested, when the time came, be sung at his funeral
PP Vet…..wonderful story! Thank you for sharing!
I was thinking about what hymn I would like sung at my funeral and it would be “Be Thou My Vision”. I love that song!
Thanks all!
As I sit and think, “why are so many people so negative toward other people?” I begin to realize that, that is the nature of humanity. Not specifically for the nature to be negative towards other people but the nature of negativity applying to humanity in general.
Then I began to realize that it is a well accepted fact to agree with “survival of the fittest” (and it is viewed as a good thing). This fits in with the negativity of people perfectly. They forget the fact that the survival of the fittest is in reference to the ones that possess inner strength to survive themselves, mistakenly assuming it means that In order to be the one to survive, you must destroy another.
World history is war after war, after war, after war; and does not stop. Crime prevails predominately with people attacking other people for a multitude of reasons, starting with Cain and Abel.
Then I begin to think what nature really is. It is natural to breathe. It is natural to have five senses. It is natural to love and it is also natural to hate.
That is the point that I find my answer as to why negativity applies to humanity in general.
IT DOES NOT.
All things natural are not controlled by a person, including the things a person does “naturally”. Experiencing hate is just as natural as experiencing love. It is when we take action of a natural experience out of its original context that we make a choice of it turning into a negative. Just like if I hold my breath for 30 SECONDS because I am going to dive in the water is a positive, but if I hold my breath for 30 MINUTES because I want to show how tuff I am it turns into a negative. Contexts matters.
Therefore I believe that negativity does NOT apply to humanity in general. Negativity applies to humanity acting outside the context of nature. Regardless of how COMMON it is for a person to take negative action, it is not NATURAL.
Since it’s open blogging and pretty slow to boot, I’ve always been a Joe Walsh fan, way back to his Funk #49 cut.
He’s still rockin’ (amazingly) after all these years. Here’s a video of a song off his new album called, “Analog Man”.
Pretty catchy tune in light of how much of a “digital world” will all live in now.
What? No hockey comments yet? Sorry the Kings lost (not really, just trying to be polite 🙂 ) happy the Penguins won and am watching the Ducks tied against Vancouver.
Paul A Lytton,
“Negativity applies to humanity acting outside the context of nature. Regardless of how COMMON it is for a person to take negative action, it is not NATURAL.”
Although the Apostle Paul is trusted less here than a used car salesman, I think he would disagree with your comment. In Galatians 5, when he speaks to the Works of the Flesh (man’s natural self) he lists these items among some others;
” enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, ”
My opinion may not be heeded, but I will go out on a limb and say those are pretty negative attitudes and actions. It takes an unnatural act, the filling by the Holy Spirit to reverse what is natural.
MLD,
I agree, ” enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, ” are in fact natural. However you did not apply what I said to the context of what followed, when I said, “… Experiencing hate is just as natural as experiencing love. It is when we take action of a natural experience ‘OUT OF ITS ORIGINAL CONTEXT THAT WE MAKE A CHOICE OF IT TURNING INTO A NEGATIVE’.” And…, “….Negativity applies to humanity ACTING outside the context of nature.”
I was not clear about it, but I was referring to a person’s negative ACTIONS, not their feelings or their experiences. I can write four more pages to try to explain what I meant but I will spare you.
I never commented that there is no negativity experienced by a human, I was merely expressing that it is not a NATURAL reality for man/woman to take negative action (especially towards another man/woman), it is a choice.
Perhaps I did not clarify my point, or perhaps you simply disagree. Either way, I apologize if anyone took what I said as claiming it to be an absolute. It is just my opinion and that is all.
God bless you,
Paul
Cool tribute PP Vet. Wish I could give the same about my mom, but it is what it is. Happy for you and yours that your momma inspired that kind of tribute.
I am hopeful (and fully expecting) that my wife will leave a similar lasting impression as she is a wonderful mother. To the good moms out there! Your Position in this existence is so important, so powerful, so influential and foundational. God bless the moms!
Alex, love your wife, encourage her, support her, love your kids and you too can leave behind a legacy of love, rather than pain and abuse. I pray the Lord will give you and your wife older friends that can be surrogate grandparents to your children and a source of reminding them how precious they are. I continue to pray for your family situation and that the Lord will do a miraculous healing and restoration.
PP Vet. That’s a sweet post.
#12 hmmm, i’m not digital, not analog, not even a man … and what’s not natural? it’s the ballyhoo ( 🙄 ) that the U.S. raises in D.C. on Inauguration Day … you’d think that the winner got the pot of gold away from the leprechaun instead the responsibility to guide a ship of state thru extremely dangerous waters
Actually, inauguration day should be celebrated with all the pomp and circumstance that surrounds it. We do not celebrate the man, but the fact that we change government leaders peacefully and in order as laid out in our constitution.
MLD, that must be why Lady Gaga will perform at the Inaugural Ball…pomp and circumstance. lol 😉
MLD, doesn’t much look like pomp and circumstance to me – it looks like frantic revelry – the ceremonial swearing in and the President’s address following excepted, perhaps – even the parade is … dunno … just not done right? but we are Yankee doodles, i guess
God have mercy on President Obama … and us
and since, i’m the resident grouch this morning (it’s natural 😆 ) … it does seem wrong for Alex to mention or even allude to his mother’s culpability on any open forum such as this … the principle of Genesis 9:23 may apply … speaking as one who has been convicted and asked God’s forgiveness for speaking of my own mother’s shortcomings to no good purpose, but perhaps self justification …
Em, I didn’t see where Alex said his Mom was naked. So he didn’t need to physically cover her with a real cloak or blanket.
Are you saying that we should take this verse figuratively and cover others sin for them if we are related.
Cranky,
I am guessing Em had in mind the premise of Honouring your mother and Father, and was referring to the Gen. story as an example. That was my take on it.
My take on Gen 9:23 is different Cyber Crank, Shem and Japeth honored their father (walked backward and covered him) even though he had acted foolishly (passed out drunk in his tent). Ham saw his father didn’t look away and then spread the story to others. It is obvious from this little story who took the right actions.
I understand the premise. We’re the boys covering the shame of his drunkin sin? Honoring the father that had honored God with his giant floating zoo.
There is a pretty big diference in these situations. Saving every living creature in the world or abandoning your children.
A covering for honor of an honor worth covering.
thank you, Nonnie and D.T., – that’s exactly what i meant and i feel no need to clarify or apologize for C.C’s sake – tho, i do feel sorry for folks with no real life analytical skills
this would not be a good day to take me on … i’m not feeling any need to pander to blog political correctness at all – God help me
I feel sorry for Alex and what he had to go through. I am happy that he has a wife who is a good mother and an honor worth covering.
If being analytically sound takes away my ability to empathize with others then may he take it away completely.
That was a kind response to Alex, Noonie. Very Shem and Japeth You covered his supposed shame by adding to his positive post about his wife and not mentioning the supposed negative (non politically correct) very small post about his mom (a little Hammy IMO).
I disagree with Em’s assertion, not applicable in the manner it is presented, but as always folks are entitled to their opinions, and there are many differences of opinion on that particular issue.
Interesting statement by Jesus here, not sure if it applies or not, but certainly worth considering: 48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Sometimes stuff is what it is and lying about it or sugar-coating it isn’t what Jesus calls us to…nor is (necessarily) ignoring it and not speaking to it.
But, Em, if that is what you are convinced of in your Conscience, then as Scripture says it is probably “sin” to you to do otherwise if that is your sincere conviction…so good that you do as your Conscience has told you.
Nonnie, thanks, fortunately we have a couple of awesome Grandmas. My wife’s mom is a great Godly example (a little too fundamentalist for me 🙂 but a wonderful woman who treats the kids very very well, as well as Grandpa who is a great dad and awesome example of loving leadership). My step-mom is a really kind person and a good influence as well.
Alex, I am really glad to hear your kids have lots of grandma love!
Em said, “this would not be a good day to take me on … i’m not feeling any need to pander to blog political correctness at all – God help me”
LOL 🙂 Let it rip Em…I can’t stand political correctness and would rather have the raw honest take from folks rather than false piety or patronizing any day.
I love that about you…you are a wise and sweet woman, but you have a strong ornery side that is very likable.
Nonnie, God has a way of filling in the Gaps. Thank God for good Grandmas! They are so important, just like good mommas! I admire good moms and grandmas very much, some take it for granted, I don’t.
“I can’t stand political correctness and would rather have the raw honest take from folks rather than false piety or patronizing any day.”
Perhaps that is why me and Alex butt heads – perhaps I am just too politically correct here on the PP. 😉
Falcons choked again, Kaepernick proved me wrong.
if Alex and MLD enjoy sparring – the pointless, but cathartic wrestling – i don’t care, however, i skip reading their give and take; i’m too old to find it entertaining
over time Alex has been quite successful in sidestepping a point or blurring one by raising straw dogs – too often here the bait is taken with a whack at the dog and then the rest of the thread is consumed chasing after and grasping at the now scattered straw(s) … to compare the culpability of Noah to that of Mrs. Grenier falls in this category today or blatantly side-steps the point – as does the quote from Matthew 12
when there is a parsing of words ignoring content or context, whether it is an intentional sidestep or a blind one, it just isn’t worth my effort to respond … there’s a Proverb or two that deal with this … and folk more patient and gracious than me to put up with it
predictably not the last word, but this is my last word …
This ^^^^^^^^^
Em,
” it does seem wrong for Alex to mention or even allude to his mother’s culpability on any open forum such as this ”
Is this a gender bias?
rip dad = OK
rip mom = get bible verses thrown back at you?
Now, for a moment, I will move away from Alex’s mom and speak in general. Has not society often held the mother more culpable in these types of situation since we seem to look at moms as the last bastion of child protection?.
Em, you said that way better than I could have. Although, I do expect a string of “yeah butts” to be forthcoming.
I won’t “yeah but” Em, she’s not a male a-hole like some of you. I do disagree, however.
Something to consider, I make a comment on an open thread that I consider rather benign and others jump on and turn the thread toward me…then I often get blamed for “this always ends up about you!”
Fickle, fickle, fickle folks. Often, IMO, I make comments (as others do) and others jump on and “make” it about me. Why don’t you talk about something else por favor? Cats are always a good subject or maybe football or maybe something less controversial like Armenianism vs. Calvinism LOL
“Armenianism vs. Calvinism”
Are the people of Armenia fighting against Calvinists? 😉
Armenians have nothing to do with any of this.
MLD beat me to it. 🙂
I just now went back and read PP Vet’s tribute to his mother. Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful!
Not sure how much can be hung on Mrs. Grenier. She’s probably been bullied and controlled as much or more than her boys.
One of my best friends, who is Jewish, says it takes two Jews to make an Armenian LOL. Our Armenian buddies even laughed at that one.
Like a bunch of cats you folks are! 🙂
CK, I agree with your assessment. Stockholm Syndrome, IMO…though others in my friends and fam disagree.
We are Kool Kats
Hmmm…in a matter of minutes Alex labels us as fickle, cats, a-holes and worst of all Armenians! LOL
#49 – perhaps i need to clarify, CK: i agree that we can’t know and shouldn’t judge her culpability – but what concerns me is the public airing of a mother’s perceived sins by her son – questions regarding her behavior should be met by his silence outside of his family circle and perhaps, even there also …
I have moved through many phases in life, hip-cat, not so hip-cat…
Now I’m a “I’ve got a sore hip,, so get off my lawn – cat.”
…but I can take it or leave it as long as everyone works hard to never lose it
Em,
Thing is ,evil continues when it remains hidden, covered up, behind closed doors of “family” or “church” or “tribe”. Look at the backward practices of some faiths and cultures that savage the abused victims because their revelations bring “shame” on these units.
If a parent is doing the kind of crap that people want to cover up then it really should be uncovered and revealed for the outrageous and reprehensible horror that it is and no family member should ever be derided when they expose it.
G., you miss my point entirely – but you make yours clearly, you think that i advocate suppressing accountability in favor of keeping up appearances? – if you do, so must the average person reading here – i find that offensive and sad and have nothing more to answer, neither rejoinder nor platitude 😐