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75 Responses

  1. Jean says:

    Senator Bob Corker is the Republican Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He is from Kentucky and is up for reelection in 2018.

    His analysis of the President’s handling of last weekend’s events are quite telling:

    “The president has not yet been able to demonstrate the stability, nor some of the competence, that he needs to demonstrate in order for him to be successful — and our nation and our world needs for him to be successful, whether you are Republican or Democrat,” the Tennessee Republican said at a Rotary Club meeting in Chattanooga.

    Corker, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, said he fears the nation will be in peril unless Trump makes radical changes at the White House.

    “He also recently has not demonstrated that he understands the character of this nation,” Corker told reporters following his luncheon address. “He has not demonstrated that he understands what has made this nation great and what it is today. And he’s got to demonstrate the characteristics of a president who understands that. Without the things I just mentioned happening, our nation is going to go through great peril.”

  2. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Well then Corker is a rogue as he is the senator from Tennessee but running for reelection in Kentucky.

  3. Duane Arnold says:

    Here’s something scary… out of the seven “we reject the false doctrine” statements of the Barmen Declaration of 1934, five are already in play with many of America’s evangelicals…

    Houston, we have a problem…

    “We reject the false doctrine, as though the church could and would have to acknowledge as a source of its proclamation, apart from and besides this one Word of God, still other events and powers, figures and truths, as God’s revelation.”

    “We reject the false doctrine, as though the Church were permitted to abandon the form of its message and order to its own pleasure or to changes in prevailing ideological and political convictions.”

    “We reject the false doctrine, as though the Church, apart from this ministry, could and were permitted to give itself, or allow to be given to it, special leaders vested with ruling powers.”

    “We reject the false doctrine, as though the Church, over and beyond its special commission, should and could appropriate the characteristics, the tasks, and the dignity of the State, thus itself becoming an organ of the State.”

    “We reject the false doctrine, as though the Church in human arrogance could place the Word and work of the Lord in the service of any arbitrarily chosen desires, purposes, and plans.”

  4. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Duane – but that is not because Trump became president. Much of the evangelical church has done this / rejected this at least back to 1980 and the Moral Majority — today it’s the same people trying to be in the evangelical driver’s seat, but with Jr. after their names.

  5. Jean says:

    Thank you MLD. You can always be counted on to enrich the content here.

  6. Duane Arnold says:

    #4 MLD

    I disagree. We/they are at another level altogether these days.

  7. Josh the Baptist says:

    @3 – Do you think that is distinctly evangelical?

    @3 – Do you think there is something about the present time that is different from times past which makes those quotes more relevant now than before?

  8. Duane Arnold says:

    #7 Josh

    I don’t think it is distinctly evangelical, but a large number of evangelicals have bought into the “strong man” concept along with striking a bargain for cultural power.

    Yes, although we’ve faced threats to the republic before, this seems to be different and amplified by social media and a denigrating of the truth of a situation, similar to totalitarian systems of the past.

    There are not, of course, exact parallels, but there are enough similarities to be scary. For instance, would any of us seriously believed that we would experience the denigrating of Jews in America in 2017? It is frightening.

  9. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “I disagree. We/they are at another level altogether these days.”

    You may be right, but as you said in another comment, there is greater coverage because of social media and the advent of 24 news cycles.

    But, there is also the point of perspective. In the late 70’s I was not a christian and I still looked at things with Jewish sensitivities (although I am sure that my Jewish religion had already been left behind) – but with that perspective and sensitivities, the Moral Majority was quite scary. The difference was I did not have 300 FB friends talking to me about it daily.

    However, I will offer this – on social media when they show all of the old Trump videos from years gone by, and he sounds fairly sensible and moderate, we must remember, the only thing that has changed with him is his new association with those crazy evangelicals.

  10. JoelG says:

    Racism, antisemitism was and will be here until the Lord returns.

    The Confederate statues where hear during the Obama administration. Why weren’t they removed then?

    Much of what’s going on here strikes me as knee-jerk reaction of fear stirred up by a small minority of knuckleheads and a media that makes its living on outrage.

  11. John 20:29 says:

    denigrating of Jews? we are much less stable than we realize, perhaps… for a time here on the PhxP there was a calling out of Israel for persecuting the Palestinians, which if one pursues back to first cause it was the returning to the Jew a homeland (where they’d come from long ago) after the horrors of the Nazi era… so where to end the blame?
    my late husband and myself were children during WW2 and, if one thinks children reflect the attitude of their homes, there were on our school yards a segment of kids of German heritage that were rooting for Germany to win that war…

    and a segment of the population thought that the black race was intellectually inferior to the whites and had to be guided for their own safety… no, they weren’t inferior, rather they couldn’t get the education needed to compete… now they can and do quite well…

    my point? we need to recognize that humanity is evolving and sorting – on the brink of disaster all the time – we need reason, not tantrums… the big mouths doing the yelling on both sides only make things worse… our Lord even asked us to reason together to a good end… it was the mob mindset that crucified Him… a bit of extrapolation, i know – sorry

    what the President needs to do now – IMNSHO – is an address from the oval office, calm and reasoned with no barbs and no glittering generalities – they say cream rises to the top and it does, but so does pond scum and that’s what’s risen to the top in the political world of Washington IMHO – do we think someone who sounds “senatorial” is a good leader? we need to think harder, but we do need reason now – for so many -ahem- reasons 🙂

  12. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Joel, you are right – this is nothing new. I was reviewing this morning the southern campaign materials for all of the Democratic presidential campaigns since 1992 Clinton / Gore. They all had their campaign materials printed over the Stars & Bars —- even up to Hillary 2016.

    Racism of any kind is wrong (that was for Jean 😉 ) but this game playing by the left is idiotic.

  13. JoelG says:

    And yes I’m well aware that I’m the last one who should be pointing out knee jerk reactions on this blog based on fear. (That was for Jean too. 🙂 )

  14. JoelG says:

    Wise words Em thank you.

  15. Scooter Jones says:

    The democrat party is the party of slavery, Jim Crow, anti-civil rights passage, etc. Good grief, does that mean if you ever voted for a democrat, you are a racist? Of course not…

  16. Michael says:

    The Democratic Party was the party of slavery.
    It’s not anymore.

    We don’t have a slavery party anymore.

  17. John 20:29 says:

    everything is fluid and, as has been stated here by someone, we must not bury our history, if we expect to progress
    the South were Democrats because Lincoln was a Republican probably… each generation proves the reaction gets opposite reaction theory
    i find it interesting that the majority alive in the U.S. today do not want to identify with a political party or a church denomination… are we discerning or denying? dunno

  18. Scooter Jones says:

    But haven’t you heard? Donald Trump is a racist? He’s a Republican, thus, all Republicans who voted for him, are by inference, racists.

    This stuff is so nauseating. The constant drum beat is deafening.

  19. Duane Arnold says:


    I do think we are in a different time. Fringe voices can be amplified and tailored to their audience. I also think we are in a time of generational and demographic change that we’ve not really seen since the massive immigration of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. In times of uncertainty, people often look for an authority figure that will not only reinforce their fears, but also promise stability. It is very much the image of a false messiah. Yes, there are knee jerk reactions, but we also need well considered responses, especially on the part of the church. In our current situation, however, (as in the thirties) there are a substantial number of believers who embrace the populist message as a way to forward their own agenda.

    All this is to say, I think we may soon need a Barmen Declaration for our own time… if, that is, people have the courage and conviction to do it…

  20. Jean says:

    “Racism of any kind is wrong (that was for Jean ? ) but this game playing by the left is idiotic.”

    What are you talking about? Are you calling the growing chorus of Republicans who disavow Trump’s false equivalency of the events of last weekend game playing?

    Is Mitt Romney a leftist? He is calling for an apology from the President?

    Are you calling someone here an idiotic leftist?

    Is there always a “but” after your criticism of racism?

  21. Jean says:

    No one here has said that anyone who voted for Trump is a racist. However, racists believe their man is in the White House, and Trump has been defending them pretty well lately.

    There is a growing bipartisan group of lawmakers who have rebuked Trump. That speaks well of the Republicans with the courage to stand up to Trump.

  22. Duane Arnold says:

    Bannon is out…

    Thanks be to God.

  23. Michael says:

    I’m high as a kite on Percocet, but I’m going to give this a shot.

    The problem as I see it is one of identity.

    Alt right, alt left, conservative, liberal, Democrat, Republican…all with social media groups loudly competing against one another.

    These labels have become peoples primary means of identification.

    Our primary identification should be as Christians and we should filter everything through that lens…supporting those values that reflect the Gospel and rejecting those that do not regardless of where they originate from.

    Having said that, we face the reality that Christians will disagree on that basis as well…but we should be able to disagree in a God honoring matter.

    As my dope wears off however, I also realize that five minutes on Facebook will convince you that there is no more historically and biblically illiterate group of it’s size than we are.

    Our culture is getting more illiterate every day, period, but that’s a rant for another time…

  24. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    You shame yourself over this issue.
    The racism is wrong. You will not find one single place where Trump, promoted or endorsed racism … nowhere will you find it.

    This whole issue now has been over who is to blame for the violence.- one side? the other? or both?

    Now I can anticipate your reply – “he did not condemn it fast enough or hard enough”. Well that is in your jaundiced opinion. He did condemn it …. and you cannot deny it.

  25. Jean says:


    I used to think that if Trump wasn’t surrounded by people like Bannon, that Trump might become, stable, competent and presidential.

  26. Duane Arnold says:

    #25 Jean

    I think he is who he is… (1 John 2:18) or at least a reasonable facsimile…

  27. John 20:29 says:

    ” In times of uncertainty, people often look for an authority figure that will not only reinforce their fears, but also promise stability. It is very much the image of a false messiah.”
    and that truth is worth a ponder

    that said, all the politicians who are speaking out to rebuke Trump’s supposed lukewarm reaction to the alt right – whatever you want to label them – are only making sure that their political welfare (yes, i could have said something crude-r) stays in tack – but then i’m prejudiced against successful politicians on the basis of what it takes to become one…

  28. John 20:29 says:

    what i like about Bannon is that he is his own man… but i’m glad that he’s not in my life LOL

  29. Jean says:


    I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not a liar or an idiot, because you say you don’t watch the news. You’re just ignorant on this one.

    Trump specifically said, and I heard the words directly from him on TV, that there were good people among the marchers last Friday night where the marchers were chanting Nazi slogans. I’m sorry, no there were not.

  30. Scooter Jones says:

    “As my dope wears off however, I also realize that five minutes on Facebook will convince you that there is no more historically and biblically illiterate group of it’s size than we are.”

    That’s because they spend hours every day being fed by either CNN or FOX NEWS. Then go to their favorite blogs or social media sites and repeat the chorus line like parrots. Trying to act impartial, of course.

    Btw Michael, high on meds or not, I like what you wrote 😉

  31. Scooter Jones says:

    And, I’m praying you have a full recovery from these ailments, Michael. If I could write as succinctly unencumbered as you do high on meds, that would be quite an accomplishment 😉

    Lord bless you!

  32. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    As you know, people march in mass for different reasons and many times for opposing reasons. During the big women’s marches back in Jan / Feb when asked why they were marching, many groups gave differeing reasons – some in the same march denouncing the vile behavior and words of other is in the march.

    So Trumps words as you quoted him (because you stay tuned to the 24/7 news reports) if they are to have meaning in the english language hold truth in them;
    “there were good people among the marchers.” Are you saying there were NO good people among the marchers?

  33. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    And who is the bigger danger? Here the son of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has come out and said that “Antifa and Black Lives Matter, are bigger threats than neo-Nazi “scum,”

  34. Michael says:

    Thanks, Scooter.

    I had another gall bladder attack in the middle of the night and was in no small discomfort while I waited for the meds to kick in.

    I crawled back in bed laying on the side that hurt less.

    Miss Kitty came and laid down on one side of me and Chester was on the other…and they were purring as loud as they could.

    They weren’t purring because they were happy, but because that’s how cats comfort themselves and each other.

    They don’t get along real well…they tolerate each other.

    They put aside whatever cat issues they have to try help out the old man.

    It’s not the first time they have done so.

    We should be able to do likewise, but now you know why I prefer the company of cats… 🙂

  35. Michael says:

    Thank you, Scooter…surgery on the 25th.
    When I leave the hospital I’m going straight to somewhere I can get a sausage dog, a pork chop, and a boat of gravy… 🙂

  36. Jean says:

    If you are marching side by side with a group of white men who are chanting “Sieg heil” and “blood and soil” and giving the Nazi salute, carrying a torch (which has its own symbolism), then “no” you are not a good person. You are participating in an anti-Christian march; you are participating in a pro-devil march.

  37. Duane Arnold says:


    Not that Jean needs defending in any manner, but your reduction to mere pedantry is a bit absurd. If you want a full list of racist comments and actions, you can start with the Federal suits for racial discrimination, removal of African-American dealers at the request of patrons in his casinos, his slamming of the US born judge over his Hispanic parentage, the Khan family, birtherism and on the list goes…

  38. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Well Jean’s last comment is not worth the effort to answer.

    Now, I don’t know what is the big news in your town, because this is not it in mine – the big squabble is over school dress codes. Are you for or against them?

  39. Josh the Baptist says:

    Love all you folks, and I don’t even know what color you are.

    As a Southern Christian White man, I want to bend over backwards to show other ethnicities the love of Christ. S.C.W, and M. are 4 offense that I have going before I ever open my mouth. I wan’t to do whatever I can to add no ore offense, and remove as much as possible so that the Gospel might be heard.

  40. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I am sure that even you know that there is a difference between racism and discrimination.

    That’s OK though, continue your own Trump hate campaign – you are free to do so.

  41. JoelG says:

    “you are participating in a pro-devil march.”

    I agree. I had to deal with a member of a racist motorcycle club on the job years ago. I will never forget an almost “sixth sense” I felt of evil i have never experienced before or since when I talked with him. It was unnerving.

  42. Duane Arnold says:


    Sorry, I think you’re just a bit tone deaf today…

  43. Duane Arnold says:

    I would assume that most have seen this documentary concerning Charlottesville. If not, it is worth your time…

  44. Jean says:

    And this provides a perspective of a synagogue in Charlettesville, what they went through last weekend:

  45. Scooter Jones says:

    “Thank you, Scooter…surgery on the 25th.
    When I leave the hospital I’m going straight to somewhere I can get a sausage dog, a pork chop, and a boat of gravy… ?”

    Can’t say I blame you! I’d be ordering seconds, especially of the sausage dog with spicy mustard 😉

  46. Dan from Georgia says:

    I just don’t feel quite safe at times here in the Bible Belt in central GA when I drive around and see symbols, used by the racists and bigots in the Charlottesville VA riot, on the back window of a pickup truck at the McDonalds in Newnan, a license plate cover, a flag in a yard in Turin, or carved on Stone Mountain.

    In my view, they have made their allegiances known.

    Maybe I should move back to MN and live safely in amongst those godless heathen liberals and democrats, where the church is alive and well.

    end snark

  47. Dan from Georgia says:

    Michael, continued prayers for you for no more attacks and your upcoming surgery. Had the surgery myself…now can eat pepperoni pizza in peace!

  48. Michael says:

    Thank you, Dan!

  49. Duane Arnold says:

    #48 Michael

    Watch it… you still have to fit into a cassock…

  50. Descended says:

    Re: Romney and other pandering conservatives
    Pres. Trump has gored himself with that last presser he foolishly and spontaneously held. There is blood in the water and Republicans are doing all they can to douse themselves in shark repellant. Nothing these spineless politicians do is genuine. Can’t say the same about the president, like him or not.
    However, the racial divide by which Obama played identity politics is not getting so much as a butterfly bandage by Trump”s continued gaffes and oversights – because c he is himself playing into identity politics, tribalism.

  51. dusty says:

    Going out of town and wont get the prayer list up til Wednesday. ….

    Michael, keeping you in prayer

    Paige, keeping your boys in prayer

    Surfer51 keeping you in prayer

    Still praying for you and your family linnea

    Still praying for filbertz

    Still praying for dan

    Still praying for scooter jones son

  52. AA says:

    Michael, praying for your surgery on the 25th & quick healing. I’ve noticed the healing takes longer these days.

  53. Jean says:


    LOL. Please don’t share this with John Piper. If he reads these two words together: “Arminian believers”, he might have a heart attack.


    Mea culpa. 🙂

  54. Stephen says:

    More politics….

  55. Jean says:

    A 3 minute video from Governor Schwarzenegger, which I commend to this community:

  56. dusty says:

    Sorry i interrupted your talk on politics

  57. Scooter Jones says:

    Does a racist and Nazi sympathizer give his daughter’s hand in marriage to a Jew who then converts to Judaism?

    Donald Trump may be a lot of things, but I believe he’s not a racist.

  58. John 20:29 says:

    #51 – safe travels, dusty… thank you again for keeping prayer before us…

  59. Scooter Jones says:

    Dusty, thanks for including my son in the prayer requests. I talked to him. He’s not suicidal, nor has he ever been.
    That event was a ruse, a bad stunt…

    He still needs prayer for other things though.

  60. Bill says:

    I read this today.

    John Wimber was, in JI Packer’s words, “a good gift of God to the church.”


  61. Dan from Georgia says:

    JoelG and Jean (53 and 54)…the twitter comments on that John Calvin statue satire are priceless!

  62. JoelG says:

    Thanks for the heads up Dan. To quote Robert Frost “If we couldn’t laugh we would all go insane.”

  63. Xenia says:

    Scooter, he may not be an anti-semite but many of the things he has said over the years strongly suggest he dislikes blacks and Hispanics.

  64. Duane Arnold says:

    Well, at least on member has resigned from Mr. Trump’s Evangelical Advisory Board – Pastor A. R. Bernard tweeted Friday evening that he had formally resigned on Tuesday over “a deepening conflict in values” between himself and the administration.

    Most of the rest are making excuses for remaining, if not out right supporting Mr. Trump’s position.

  65. John 20:29 says:

    one thing is puzzling me today… General Jackson was a devout Christian – how can Believers now attack him so viciously? I believe General Lee, too, was a Believer…
    the North was not Lily-white even though President Lincoln was a good man… history is not black and white ever

    and i think the day will come when every Believer in America in 2017 is going to feel a little chagrined at jumping into the frenzy going on out there today…

    Donald Trump is not one whit worse morally than was Obama and i say that as a Believer out of the context of my understanding of the Faith… which life probably is not applicable to either man…

    we, who know Christ, whatever our skin color or ethnic heritage would be far better served to dialog with pure, nonjudgemental hearts and to pray for our leadership to bless and not curse us – period

  66. Xenia says:

    Donald Trump is not one whit worse morally than was Obama<<<<


  67. John 20:29 says:

    Xenia, my understanding of the Faith ( the teaching and the tenants which i’ve come to affirm) and what i have seen so far of how the two men in question have conducted their lives put them on equal footing at best
    you have a different view of the men (and what constitutes degrees of morality perhaps)… your view is shared by the majority, i know…. but it isn’t my view
    and we do have somewhat different views of the Faith that may color our conclusion, i don’t know…
    on the former i think that those who hold your view are mistaken and on the latter, i have confidence that God is leading us both to a good end 🙂

  68. Rick says:

    I would choose to use a phrase attributed to Martin Luther: all of our political leaders hold this in common with their betters, those they purport to lead: “sinners in the best of life”. I would stay away, personally, from comparisons–we know only Obama and Trump by their media portrayals for the most part–I stand in judgment of neither of them for their personal morality since humans are not very good at it. Judge their policies, yes–

    I personally think a lust for power of any kind, especially political, is indicative of a personal pathology that disqualifies one from leadership. That judgment is based on my observations of abusive church leadership, but I think our political class, left and right, fits that paradigm as well. I hold no hope in any of them, but pray God’s mercy on us all.

  69. Rick says:

    I remember the ‘Camelot’ days of the Kennedy presidency where the press, because they like him and his policies, zealously guarded his image and personal life. It was only decades later that his serial adulteries, his Justice department bugging Martin Luther King, Jr, and other weirdness came into the light. Who knows what will be revealed about our current political leadership in the days ahead–frankly, because I do not see Jesus in Scripture paying that much attention to them, I choose not to as well.

    It would do the Church Catholic good, I think, to better understand the process of conversion to Christ as it relates to us, and to build community the best we can with all those who are blessed with God’s common grace. Concern for politicians’ souls to the same degree as we are concerned for the souls of the ‘least of these’; respect but not reverence for those in power.

  70. Rick says:

    If I understand the Founders’ intent, as flawed personally as many of them were, it was to establish a governmental system that was not centered in personality, but in the rule of law. Sadly, humans don’t do well with that–it may be that we are experiencing presently the cascading system failure and can say, Wow! It is amazing that the system lasted as long as it did.

    I prefer a non-personality centered governmental system with a lot of turnover to keep any one person from gaining too much power and influence–but that may be an impossible goal in a society infatuated and saturated with current social media and celebrity.

  71. John 20:29 says:

    Rick, some good observations – IMHO
    when i say that the two Presidents are on equal footing morally, what i am trying to convey is that the two lives demonstrate equal ability to compromise values to meet their desired goals… but you are correct, we only see what comes thru the filters of public exposure

    “Concern for politicians’ souls to the same degree as we are concerned for the souls of the ‘least of these’; respect but not reverence for those in power.” amen

  72. bob1 says:


    That’s got to be one of the most ignorant statements I’ve had the bad luck to waste my time reading in a long time.

  73. John 20:29 says:

    bob1… it was a short statement, so you didn’t waste too much time
    i knew there’d be disagreement when i posted it, but ignorant it isn’t … my conclusion simply differs from the majority … 🙂
    God keep

  74. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    In a way, society has deemed smokers to be the worst moral scum of the earth — and since Obama is a smoker…

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