“According to court documents, Mr Dorner was fired in 2008 after making a complaint against his field training officer, saying she had kicked a suspect, a schizophrenic man with severe dementia, during an arrest”
somehow i believe this man and think we should pray for him as well as for the safety of those he encounters now … i know that i’m not the judge of this, but it seems sad all around now
Dorner is developing quite a following. My neighbor was just trying to explain to me how it’s about time someone took things into their own hands. He cited PTSD and the fact Dorner has lost everything and he served our country.
People are also saying the LAPD is corrupt through and through and that Dorner probably was thrown out for no good reason.
Lost is the fact he is killing innocent people. His mother lives about a mile from us so talk among people in the stores and on the street is all about this.
I hope this concludes without any more loss of life and that this doesn’t inspire copycats.
I know for a fact that the LAPD as a whole is very physically abusive towards suspects. I beleive Dorner too. My ex girlfriend had a female cousin in the LAPD that did the same thing and kicked a suspect that was already subdued by other officers. What a cowardice she was doing this while other officers subdued him. My sisters LAPD friends are very physically agressive towrds suspects and there is a code of silence where the moral cops go along to get along
My understanding is that all of the other witnesses, who were all civilians told a different story than Dorner.
The guy is a cold blooded murderer who has no excuse or defense. My prayer is that he went into the mountains, killed himself and is now being eaten by the bears.
Nonnie, Lots of people believe his story that he witnessed brutality by a fellow officer and reported it. Here in O.C. we had the Fullerton debacle where the police killed a homeless schizophrenic man who was defenseless. I even wondered at the outset if maybe what he stated was true.
Regardless of what happened then he has killed innocent people in cold blood and some people are quite okay with it. That scares me. I’m sure Hollywood is already preparing a script……
it’s interesting to hear from those of you who are somewhat close to the action on this Dorner matter … he is NOT innocent and cannot be excused in any way shape or form for the killings he’s evidently committed …
that said, i still find the quotation that i posted up there @ #3 (from BBC online news) very credible – there is no good outcome now, but i can pray for the safety of all and, perhaps, some real justice and accountability wherever it is due … the whole scenario – very, very sad
something insidious and ugly is going on, it seems to me …
i saw a report on ultimate fighting for little guys (6 – 7 year olds?) – they were, of necessity vicious, what good is that? what gives any parent the right to teach their children to sanction and take pleasure in simply beating somebody up for no reason other than you can? … it’s different than a fist fight between 2 guys who are mad at each other or the skills and disciplines developed in wrestling and boxing – just aren’t in the same category … or “so it seems to me”
we’ll end up with a blood thirsty generation – try and evangelize those kids
AB, This is playing out like a movie, albeit a terrible one. I think a movie will be made and if there is I hope it can be done without spin.
from this corner, The only good outcome is if no more lives are lost. I think we are already in a blood thirsty generation. The fact so many solve things through violence and bloodshed is evidenced by the crime rates in our country. Now we have video games and music that spread the violence theme, although there has been violent music for some time now.
We see it all over the world from governments down to individuals. The preciousness of life is a foreign concept to too many in our world and I believe we’ve in some part become used to it. How some think this world is headed to bigger and better things escapes me. We don’t have it in us to take the high road and I believe things will continue like this until Christ comes back and sets up His kingdom.
MLD, I understand the strong Concordia connection of the initial two victims. I hope your church family was not especially affected by their deaths through personal relationships with the victims.
Wondering if there are different opinions here on this:
Is it possible that since there had never been a human death before Cain murdered Able that Cain did not know Able was in fact dead? Could he have thought that Able was only knocked out when he left him and did not really know where Able was when God asked Cain where Able was?
Good morning beautiful blog family (yes, i realize) 😉 I just wanted to stop by and say i love you and am praying the needs of this beloved community.
Blessing and favor!
From Dorner’s manifesto:
“Unfortunately, this is a necessary evil that I do not enjoy but must partake and complete for substantial change to occur within the LAPD and reclaim my name.”
It is all about reclaiming “his” name.
He states he has his own set of ethics.
A violent temper.
I don’t trust it when someone tells me all the good things he has done and there is nothing, according to him, that can be held against him.
He essentially keeps saying he is blameless of anything and why because “It’s in my DNA.”
He says he is “here to change and make policy.” but repeated variations of this “That’s what this is about, my name. A man is nothing without his name.” make it all into a lie.
Don’t trust this guy, he is a psychopath. i could only get a few pages in to where he is describing the various reasons he will kill different police for varying reasons before I got sick of hearing his narcissitic crap.
I will pray for him, but I don’t believe him. But, pray that the police end this one way or the other, because so far he has killed a lot of people for his name.
I can see how this ends, but that is why God has humans set up things like police departments, common grace, so that we don’t live in constant fear and terror that people like this will arbitrarily make their own set of values and go on a rampage to enforce them.
BTW, not getting on anyone for their views. Some people have more grace in them for this man. I find myself unable to sympathize or find a heart for him. To me, I feel more for his victims.
Derek T, let me be clear, his words that seem credible to me were that he was unjustly fired for reporting misconduct of another officer … the man’s ranting in his ‘manifesto’ holds no credibility whatsoever and indicates someone who has lost it completely – in a very bad way
praying for those in authority over us seems like a good idea – and for the safety of the rest of us – no more carnage
I understand. I just don’t even believe that. Or, let me put it this way, maybe it is a mix of truth. But more likely he has created a fantasy view of himself that everything must agree with, so in his mind he is always right and I think he makes a reality in his head to support this.
I think people want to agree, because we are always shown the worst of organizations like the LAPD and so believe things like this when they happen. Same could apply to discussions on here about church abuse. Some are real situations, and make us more likely to believe the person who lies when they tell a tale.
Again, I wasn’t denigrating anyone’s views, just throwing my own out there. And, not that I think anyone on this blog is making him into a hero.
I read some disturbing things on twitter that make me wonder about people who are making him into a hero and I find it extremely disturbing.
Everyone have a good day, as for me I am snowed in in a “No travel advised” area and will be watching some TMC with my wife. 🙂
Dorner may have had a couple of legitimate complaints but injustice happens, cover ups happen all the time, it’s part of the human condition. It doesn’t make going postal and shooting people right. There are ways to go about dealing with injustices in the system.
Dorner lacks mental toughness and snapped. He’ll be brought to justice, probably killed on sight with no trial. Prayers to Dorner’s victims and to the two old ladies shot by the police. Very sad and tragic.
” It doesn’t make going postal and shooting people right. ” agreed, but shouldn’t that be obvious? … i know nothing of the LAPD as they haven’t been on my radar since Rodney King; at that time, i thought those officers went “postal” – pushed over the edge of their cope-ability … the responsibility of those at the top is to clean things up before such an event occurs – it’s a tall order, but they took the job – sometimes we march and sometimes we dance
I believe Donner as the LAPD hasnt changed much since the Daryl gates days. He is still a violent murderer but I also beleive him and unlike MLD I dont wish suicide on anyone as this guy can still repent just as Paul did after his viciousness
Nothing excuses that man murdering those people . LAPD corruption is one thing but that is no excuse for this man murdering people. I’m appalled that people can applaud or even condone his actions.
SolRod,
I think I posted this yesterday – but the reason they didn’t believe his story was that it was different from the way everyone else retold the story – and that included several citizen witnesses. His was the only one accusing the training officer of misconduct.
I’m concerned that the LAPD has now opened fire without warning on three innocent civilians who offered no provocation. It suggests that (a) they do have a problem with police brutality and (b) they are unconcerned with upholding the law as it related to Dorner and, instead, are trying to mete out vigilante justice under the cover of their badges.
“The guy is a cold blooded murderer who has no excuse or defense. My prayer is that he went into the mountains, killed himself and is now being eaten by the bears.” 😯 did MLD go postal today?
no excuse? agreeing on that, reasons are not excuses
Well let’s look at this. The guy has a beef with the LAPD and he has killed 2 college students in Irvine, a Riverside city cop (75 miles from LA – wounded a San Bernardino cop and another Corona cop.
So, I would love to hear the reasons, because I have yet to see where he has taken anything out on the LAPD.
Charles Manson had reasons for his killings also – not excuses, just reasons.
He is a lot worse than the people he is angry at. They only inappropriately brutalize subdued suspects whereas Dorner kills completely innocent people. If he had balls he would go after the specific people he’s angry with–not police in general and not the innocent civilian family members of people he’s angry with.
According to his manifesto he knows where their children go to school and take recess and threatens to kill the children too! Bear feces would be the best solution.
I have been fond of this Pope. He does seem humble.
Certainly Roman Catholicism, like say, Lutheranism, has plenty that is stodgy, antiquated, and superstitious. Still, I wish we had someone to affirm and support that distinctive, which has so much to offer.
“We must trust in the mighty power of God’s mercy. We are all sinners, but His grace transforms us and makes us new.” Preach it, Vicar of Christ.
For those of you who think this guy has “reasons” to kill (not excuses as you boldly uphold) but good reasons – here is the identity (name and photo of his latest victim.)
You can post bloody pictures and show mothers crying all you want. What is your point?
The tragic victims of a deranged and violent madman deserve support, but that does not make a discussion of the self-protective nature of law enforcement off-limits.
Maybe it should be off-limits for a season out of support for the victims, granted.
However ultimately it parallels the discussions of abusive religious organizations that is interesting for many of us.
He is not a police officer. He is a crazy civilian.
Being a police officer in a crime-ridden metropolis is impossible to fathom. Those men and women should be better educated, better trained, better equipped, better paid, and better appreciated. And there should be more of them.
reasons versus excuses … reason is not interchangeable with justification … the reason a person takes an action is a combination of character and circumstances
on the other hand …
excuse implies that we overlook the consequences because of circumstances
or so it seems to me
the reason that a dog bites a child may be that the dog is an ugly, vicious animal or it may be that the child (for whatever ‘reason’) has teased the dog beyond the dog’s endurance –
the reason does not excuse the action
…………………….
praying that the rest of the Church is prayerful and gracious – not flaky – as the Roman Catholic institution deals with choosing another Pope
“He is not a police officer. He is a crazy civilian.”
The only reason he is a civilian is because he was fired for being a rogue cop – which from your previous comments I gather that you think the LAPD should do more frequently.
It’s all yours today…
All new songs this week. Feel free to drop by and listen to a song or two.
http://morethancoping.wordpress.com/2013/02/08/praise-worship-february-8th-2013/
On the road this weekend. Blessings to all.
“According to court documents, Mr Dorner was fired in 2008 after making a complaint against his field training officer, saying she had kicked a suspect, a schizophrenic man with severe dementia, during an arrest”
somehow i believe this man and think we should pray for him as well as for the safety of those he encounters now … i know that i’m not the judge of this, but it seems sad all around now
Dorner is developing quite a following. My neighbor was just trying to explain to me how it’s about time someone took things into their own hands. He cited PTSD and the fact Dorner has lost everything and he served our country.
People are also saying the LAPD is corrupt through and through and that Dorner probably was thrown out for no good reason.
Lost is the fact he is killing innocent people. His mother lives about a mile from us so talk among people in the stores and on the street is all about this.
I hope this concludes without any more loss of life and that this doesn’t inspire copycats.
I know for a fact that the LAPD as a whole is very physically abusive towards suspects. I beleive Dorner too. My ex girlfriend had a female cousin in the LAPD that did the same thing and kicked a suspect that was already subdued by other officers. What a cowardice she was doing this while other officers subdued him. My sisters LAPD friends are very physically agressive towrds suspects and there is a code of silence where the moral cops go along to get along
My understanding is that all of the other witnesses, who were all civilians told a different story than Dorner.
The guy is a cold blooded murderer who has no excuse or defense. My prayer is that he went into the mountains, killed himself and is now being eaten by the bears.
I can’t understand why people are so quick to take the word of a man killing innocent people. This is horrible.
Nonnie, Lots of people believe his story that he witnessed brutality by a fellow officer and reported it. Here in O.C. we had the Fullerton debacle where the police killed a homeless schizophrenic man who was defenseless. I even wondered at the outset if maybe what he stated was true.
Regardless of what happened then he has killed innocent people in cold blood and some people are quite okay with it. That scares me. I’m sure Hollywood is already preparing a script……
Usually the vigilantes that Hollywood applauds kill the perpetrators, not innocent victims.
I read through the man’s entire manifesto, …a greatly disturbed individual.
it’s interesting to hear from those of you who are somewhat close to the action on this Dorner matter … he is NOT innocent and cannot be excused in any way shape or form for the killings he’s evidently committed …
that said, i still find the quotation that i posted up there @ #3 (from BBC online news) very credible – there is no good outcome now, but i can pray for the safety of all and, perhaps, some real justice and accountability wherever it is due … the whole scenario – very, very sad
something insidious and ugly is going on, it seems to me …
i saw a report on ultimate fighting for little guys (6 – 7 year olds?) – they were, of necessity vicious, what good is that? what gives any parent the right to teach their children to sanction and take pleasure in simply beating somebody up for no reason other than you can? … it’s different than a fist fight between 2 guys who are mad at each other or the skills and disciplines developed in wrestling and boxing – just aren’t in the same category … or “so it seems to me”
we’ll end up with a blood thirsty generation – try and evangelize those kids
AB, This is playing out like a movie, albeit a terrible one. I think a movie will be made and if there is I hope it can be done without spin.
from this corner, The only good outcome is if no more lives are lost. I think we are already in a blood thirsty generation. The fact so many solve things through violence and bloodshed is evidenced by the crime rates in our country. Now we have video games and music that spread the violence theme, although there has been violent music for some time now.
We see it all over the world from governments down to individuals. The preciousness of life is a foreign concept to too many in our world and I believe we’ve in some part become used to it. How some think this world is headed to bigger and better things escapes me. We don’t have it in us to take the high road and I believe things will continue like this until Christ comes back and sets up His kingdom.
MLD, I understand the strong Concordia connection of the initial two victims. I hope your church family was not especially affected by their deaths through personal relationships with the victims.
Wondering if there are different opinions here on this:
Is it possible that since there had never been a human death before Cain murdered Able that Cain did not know Able was in fact dead? Could he have thought that Able was only knocked out when he left him and did not really know where Able was when God asked Cain where Able was?
Just a thought.
Good morning beautiful blog family (yes, i realize) 😉 I just wanted to stop by and say i love you and am praying the needs of this beloved community.
Blessing and favor!
nomans! blessings to you!
sup nomans
From Dorner’s manifesto:
“Unfortunately, this is a necessary evil that I do not enjoy but must partake and complete for substantial change to occur within the LAPD and reclaim my name.”
It is all about reclaiming “his” name.
He states he has his own set of ethics.
A violent temper.
I don’t trust it when someone tells me all the good things he has done and there is nothing, according to him, that can be held against him.
He essentially keeps saying he is blameless of anything and why because “It’s in my DNA.”
He says he is “here to change and make policy.” but repeated variations of this “That’s what this is about, my name. A man is nothing without his name.” make it all into a lie.
Don’t trust this guy, he is a psychopath. i could only get a few pages in to where he is describing the various reasons he will kill different police for varying reasons before I got sick of hearing his narcissitic crap.
I will pray for him, but I don’t believe him. But, pray that the police end this one way or the other, because so far he has killed a lot of people for his name.
I can see how this ends, but that is why God has humans set up things like police departments, common grace, so that we don’t live in constant fear and terror that people like this will arbitrarily make their own set of values and go on a rampage to enforce them.
BTW, not getting on anyone for their views. Some people have more grace in them for this man. I find myself unable to sympathize or find a heart for him. To me, I feel more for his victims.
Derek T, let me be clear, his words that seem credible to me were that he was unjustly fired for reporting misconduct of another officer … the man’s ranting in his ‘manifesto’ holds no credibility whatsoever and indicates someone who has lost it completely – in a very bad way
praying for those in authority over us seems like a good idea – and for the safety of the rest of us – no more carnage
I understand. I just don’t even believe that. Or, let me put it this way, maybe it is a mix of truth. But more likely he has created a fantasy view of himself that everything must agree with, so in his mind he is always right and I think he makes a reality in his head to support this.
I think people want to agree, because we are always shown the worst of organizations like the LAPD and so believe things like this when they happen. Same could apply to discussions on here about church abuse. Some are real situations, and make us more likely to believe the person who lies when they tell a tale.
Again, I wasn’t denigrating anyone’s views, just throwing my own out there. And, not that I think anyone on this blog is making him into a hero.
I read some disturbing things on twitter that make me wonder about people who are making him into a hero and I find it extremely disturbing.
Everyone have a good day, as for me I am snowed in in a “No travel advised” area and will be watching some TMC with my wife. 🙂
Dorner may have had a couple of legitimate complaints but injustice happens, cover ups happen all the time, it’s part of the human condition. It doesn’t make going postal and shooting people right. There are ways to go about dealing with injustices in the system.
Dorner lacks mental toughness and snapped. He’ll be brought to justice, probably killed on sight with no trial. Prayers to Dorner’s victims and to the two old ladies shot by the police. Very sad and tragic.
” It doesn’t make going postal and shooting people right. ” agreed, but shouldn’t that be obvious? … i know nothing of the LAPD as they haven’t been on my radar since Rodney King; at that time, i thought those officers went “postal” – pushed over the edge of their cope-ability … the responsibility of those at the top is to clean things up before such an event occurs – it’s a tall order, but they took the job – sometimes we march and sometimes we dance
I believe Donner as the LAPD hasnt changed much since the Daryl gates days. He is still a violent murderer but I also beleive him and unlike MLD I dont wish suicide on anyone as this guy can still repent just as Paul did after his viciousness
I work in downtown LA and live real close to L.A. so I am familiar with th e culture of that police dept.
He can repent right before he kills himself.Perhaps he is already saved.
Paul, as far as the Cain and Abel thing, we will just have to wait for the Forensic Files episode to come out to get the straight story on that.
Nothing excuses that man murdering those people . LAPD corruption is one thing but that is no excuse for this man murdering people. I’m appalled that people can applaud or even condone his actions.
His murdering is wrong and evil, Im just saying I beleive his story about the training officer.
SolRod,
I think I posted this yesterday – but the reason they didn’t believe his story was that it was different from the way everyone else retold the story – and that included several citizen witnesses. His was the only one accusing the training officer of misconduct.
I’m concerned that the LAPD has now opened fire without warning on three innocent civilians who offered no provocation. It suggests that (a) they do have a problem with police brutality and (b) they are unconcerned with upholding the law as it related to Dorner and, instead, are trying to mete out vigilante justice under the cover of their badges.
“The guy is a cold blooded murderer who has no excuse or defense. My prayer is that he went into the mountains, killed himself and is now being eaten by the bears.” 😯 did MLD go postal today?
no excuse? agreeing on that, reasons are not excuses
Well, we will see – if he kills 10 more people – then the rest of you will wish he had killed himself and was consumed by bears when I said so.
” reasons are not excuses”
Well let’s look at this. The guy has a beef with the LAPD and he has killed 2 college students in Irvine, a Riverside city cop (75 miles from LA – wounded a San Bernardino cop and another Corona cop.
So, I would love to hear the reasons, because I have yet to see where he has taken anything out on the LAPD.
Charles Manson had reasons for his killings also – not excuses, just reasons.
He is a lot worse than the people he is angry at. They only inappropriately brutalize subdued suspects whereas Dorner kills completely innocent people. If he had balls he would go after the specific people he’s angry with–not police in general and not the innocent civilian family members of people he’s angry with.
Actually, I think I have been too hard on the guy. I think it is his mother’s fault. I am sure that she tried to potty train him too early..
According to his manifesto he knows where their children go to school and take recess and threatens to kill the children too! Bear feces would be the best solution.
Farewell, Benedict.
I have been fond of this Pope. He does seem humble.
Certainly Roman Catholicism, like say, Lutheranism, has plenty that is stodgy, antiquated, and superstitious. Still, I wish we had someone to affirm and support that distinctive, which has so much to offer.
“We must trust in the mighty power of God’s mercy. We are all sinners, but His grace transforms us and makes us new.” Preach it, Vicar of Christ.
“We must trust in the mighty power of God’s mercy. We are all sinners, but His grace transforms us and makes us new.”
Preach it, Vicar of Christ.
Amen!
For those of you who think this guy has “reasons” to kill (not excuses as you boldly uphold) but good reasons – here is the identity (name and photo of his latest victim.)
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-manhunt-slain-riverside-officer-identified-michael-crain.html
You can post bloody pictures and show mothers crying all you want. What is your point?
The tragic victims of a deranged and violent madman deserve support, but that does not make a discussion of the self-protective nature of law enforcement off-limits.
Maybe it should be off-limits for a season out of support for the victims, granted.
However ultimately it parallels the discussions of abusive religious organizations that is interesting for many of us.
This guy is the rogue cop – this guy is the face of the LAPD problem – not the ones he is shooting at.
He is not a police officer. He is a crazy civilian.
Being a police officer in a crime-ridden metropolis is impossible to fathom. Those men and women should be better educated, better trained, better equipped, better paid, and better appreciated. And there should be more of them.
I might feel the same way about pastors.
reasons versus excuses … reason is not interchangeable with justification … the reason a person takes an action is a combination of character and circumstances
on the other hand …
excuse implies that we overlook the consequences because of circumstances
or so it seems to me
the reason that a dog bites a child may be that the dog is an ugly, vicious animal or it may be that the child (for whatever ‘reason’) has teased the dog beyond the dog’s endurance –
the reason does not excuse the action
…………………….
praying that the rest of the Church is prayerful and gracious – not flaky – as the Roman Catholic institution deals with choosing another Pope
“He is not a police officer. He is a crazy civilian.”
The only reason he is a civilian is because he was fired for being a rogue cop – which from your previous comments I gather that you think the LAPD should do more frequently.
And for a little entertainment, compliments of the Lutherans…… MLD, this one’s for you.