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37 Responses

  1. Erunner says:

    Feel free to delete the above post. Thanks.

  2. Em says:

    Okay, finally somebody posted a comment today – i came here hoping to know how Erunner was doing and all i read is “delete my post?” sigh

    i have had something rattling around in my head today as i sit here avoiding doing stuff (in addition to wondering if Michael is alright…)
    IF we who anticipate a seven year period of intense, antichrist persecution and exploitation are correct. IF we are correct and we are removed from the planet, does that mean that those who see no “rapture,” no millennium with Christ as King of the earth before God destroys the planet.. .. will they will go through those seven years as described before Christ returns?
    It’s a quiet Friday up the Entiat…. 😟

  3. 2/3 won’t survive, given the Hal Lindsey interpretation.

    In other news… The TP hoarding has lessened. 7-11 had a full shelf, and Wal-Mart today had a pallet, the shelves mostly empty, but no guard.

    For the 3rd time during lockdown, my 10 year old son overflowed the toilet yesterday. My plumbing trends to get air bubbles. The last two times the water went into the hallway and kitchen nook. Yesterday, he called me early. I got it before it went into the hallway but it was still gross. Thankfully I have tile; carpet would have been ruined. Good times! Though not The Tribulation.

  4. Em says:

    TNV, i used to have continual problems – a new house and the new low flow toilets… a visitor would come into the kitchen and ask, “do you have a plunger?” Before i gave up and got new toilets (after 8 years) i hung up a sign on the wall facing the potty at face height admonishing folks to flush, flush flush as you go – do not wait to accumulate – it went on to say that if you do, you’ll be asking “do you have a plunger?” … 🙂

    I sent my copy of “Late Great Planet” to the Salvation Army, but didn’t think Lindsey was the final word… although, from what i read in Revelation 2/3 not surviving does seem quite possible

    interesting lack of traffic here today… others must be having a much more exciting day than mine was
    God keep

  5. I told my son “flush as you go.” He still doesn’t get it, but at least he yelled for me in time and I shut off the valve. Last week, D7 was trapped in the bedrooms while I mopped. She gave her brother a hard time verbally. He was on the other side of the flood making himself a hot pocket while I soaked up with the mop. I was mad, but it was a little funny. I carried D across the wet floor once I got the most of it. Then mopped with pine sol. He’s ASD1 (like Asperger’s). He focuses on things such th at these things happen. It’s a struggle not to get too mad.

  6. Dan from Georgia says:

    When my local Walmart opened yesterday morning, I was the only one in the aisle getting my TP allotment. Everyone else was hurrying to the aisle to get cleaning wipes. Far cry from a few weeks ago when people were hoarding the TP.

  7. JoelG says:

    Interesting discussion here. End times, toilets and TP. 🙂

    This seems plausible:

  8. Em says:

    Praying for you, Victor.. God have mercy indeed
    living with my daughter’s incontinent cat… I can only imagine …
    Good reminders of the downside of this mortal plane, but..gee whiz. 😟

  9. Em says:

    JoelG’s link raises an interesting question – how does Noah fit in? IF, and i believe it’s true, the flood covered the whole earth ( “fountains of the deep” and “mountains rising up and valleys sinking down”) then we all descend from Noah’s family – how does that skew genetic research?

  10. JoelG says:


    I don’t want to get into trouble but from another Biologos article:

    “The scientific and historical evidence is now clear: there has never been a global flood that covered the entire earth, nor do all modern animals and humans descend from the passengers of a single vessel.“

  11. Em says:

    You’re not in trouble Joel, i have heard those arguments, too. Trouble is I know that God can do anything… Wombats, kangaroos and koalas probably weren’t on the Ark… I don’t know where God put them. 😳…. It is remotely possible that the flood wasn’t worldwide, but then.. how did Noah land on a mountain top? Or near its top?

  12. Jean says:

    End Times… John has a vision of the age we’re in, between the ascension of Jesus and his return at the end of the age to bring judgment, resurrection and the new heaven and new earth. Here is a short piece:

    “Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

    The measuring of the temple and the altar is a prophesy that Christ’s church and its worship (the incense altar is signifies the prayers of the faithful) will be protected by Christ from destruction. The outer court (In Herod’s temple, the court of the gentiles) and the trampling of the holy city symbolize the persecution that the church will suffer.

    The church is not raptured from the earth (this teaching is found no where in Revelation) is because it has a very specific calling: It is to witness to the pagan world. This witness is what brings about the persecution. The witness is for the purpose of converting as many as possible to Christ before the end comes.

    The time period of this witness, of this age which spans from Christ’s ascension to his return is stated in Revelation in three ways: 42 months; 1,260 days and 3-1/2 years (or a time and times and half a time).

  13. Em says:

    That is one view, Jean… You’re welcome to hang your hat on it.
    God keeo

  14. JoelG says:

    Em, good question. The most interesting part of the article, to me, is learning the intended purpose of the stories in the OT. They weren’t necessarily meant to be “journalistic” accounts of what happened as much as poetic stories that the original hearers would understand.

    Jean, would the original readers of Johns writing have understood the imagery and symbolism he used?

  15. JoelG says:

    Much better than we do, I mean?

  16. Jean says:


    You ask a very important question, perhaps a key question, for anyone studying Revelation.

    Note the first verse: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place.”

    The word “revelation” (Greek: apokalupsis) means an unveiling, uncovering, revealing, revelation. Therefore, rather than provide secret knowledge or a puzzle or riddle, St. John is being given a message that reveals, unveils or uncovers things that must soon take place.

    Revelation is also a letter, sharing similarities with St. Paul’s letters, given to seven historical churches located in the Roman provinces of Asia Minor (modern day Turkey).

    These churches would have likely consisted of Jews and Gentiles and would have been born from the preaching of the Apostles using the Old Testament as their Scriptures. By the time of Revelation (assuming a date of around 90 AD), its probable that the churches would have one or more of the Gospels and letters of the apostles.

    The book of Revelation employs symbols and imagery from both the Old Testament and Roman society. Therefore, Revelation establishes its roots and credibility from the Old Testament, but appeals contextually to the original hearers.

    The readers of the 7 churches would have understood the message of Revelation. Our challenge today, divorced from and ignorant of both the Old Testament and 1st Century Greco-Roman culture in Asian minor, is that that the book is an enigma. But I’m convinced that it is not intended to be an enigma nor reserved for the scholars.

    One thing that is often missed is that as a letter written to seven historical churches, the visions an prophesy in the latter chapters of Revelation serve the 7 churches, who may be experiencing persecution, on the one hand, or luxury and assimilation, on the other hand.

  17. Michael says:

    I believe the notion of a pretrib rapture would have been utterly contemptible to the early church and should be to the church today.
    Glad to see JoelG and others reading Biologos…won’t get you in trouble with me.

  18. directambiguity says:

    “The time period of this witness, of this age which spans from Christ’s ascension to his return is stated in Revelation in three ways: 42 months; 1,260 days and 3-1/2 years (or a time and times and half a time).”

    Now I just have to get 42 months; 1,260 days and 3-1/2 years or a time and times and half a time to equal 2000+ years. 😉

  19. Jean says:

    Yes, directambiguity, and then look for a beast with ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads, which is like a leopard, with feet like a bear’s, and a mouth like a lion’s mouth.

  20. JoelG says:

    Thanks Jean. Very helpful.

    Michael I know you’ve linked to BioLogos before so I figured you wouldn’t have an issue with it. I want to tread carefully, though, and not cause any readers to doubt the Bible. Scientific discovery about our origins should drive us back to scripture and learn its intended purpose.

    Good to hear from you Michael we were getting worried. 🙂

  21. directambiguity says:

    Okay Jean, but I think I’ll be working on the first problem for a while.

  22. Jean says:

    There is a category of Christian hymnody devoted to the Church Militant. Rev. Ch. 7 depicts the Church Militant using the OT imagery of God’s host on earth, the host of Israel, which camped around the Tabernacle and assembled by tribe ready for war wherever the pillar of cloud led them.

    “Like a mighty army
    Moves the Church of God:
    Brothers, we are treading
    Where the saints have trod;
    We are not divided,
    All one Body we—
    One in faith and Spirit,
    One eternally.

    “Crowns and thrones may perish,
    Kingdoms rise and wane;
    But the Church of Jesus
    Constant will remain.
    Gates of hell can never
    ‘Gainst the Church prevail;
    We have Christ’s own promise,
    Which can never fail.

    “Onward, then, ye people!
    Join our happy throng;
    Blend with ours your voices
    In the triumph song.
    Glory, laud and honor
    Unto Christ, the King;
    This through countless ages
    Men and angels sing.”

  23. Em says:

    Jean@ 4:06
    Reminds me of my grandparents taking me to the church on the corner – they began their services with the congregation standing, singing, ” Stand up, stand up for Jesus, ye soldiers of the cross….. ” i couldn’t read and i was looking at the backsides of the row in front of me – a bit annoyed and not at all God fearing yet, i sang every bad word i knew: phooey, darn, blast…

  24. Michael says:


    Thanks…been too busy and had too bad of an attitude the last few days…best to only inflict myself on those who have no choice… 🙂

  25. JoelG says:

    I sure understand that. As Em always says, God keep.

  26. Em says:

    IT IS SPRING AND GUESS WHAT YOU ARE…. if you’re growing (hard not to grow here)….

    Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and through us diffuses the fragrance of His knowledge…For we are to God the fragrance of Christ. (2 Corinthians 2:14-15)

  27. Mitochondrial Eve? A common human ancestor. Also, there is an underground “ocean.” That’s a fact. Modernity was so biased against Biblical accounts in the 19th cenrur that the Missoula Floods hypothesis were rejected by the scientific consensus of the day. I worked at a 30 acre plant in Gresham, Oregon that had a huge boulder left over from that flood and I started investigating it. Geologic minds were biased against catastrophism. Maybe not a world wide food, but there were devastating floods at the end of the last ice age.

  28. Linnea says:

    I keep thinking that the rest of the world, apart from the US and other first world countries, have been going through tribulation for a long time. How do we know this is the great tribulation? How do we know when we’re through the mid-trib? A book called The Sign made a very cogent argument that Christians would not be raptured until mid-trib. Others believe the book of Revelation has already taken place…therefore no Trib. What’s the solution? Keep living as God has prescribed… keep the lamps lit.

  29. Em says:

    Amen, Linnea, amen

  30. Em says:

    Now thanks be to God who…through us diffuses the fragrance of His knowledge in every place. For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. To the one we are the aroma of death to death, and to the other the aroma of life to life. (2 Corinthians 2:14-16)

  31. Our CC in the bay area is opening up next Sunday even though there’s not an official loosening of restrictions yet. May 4th was the original opening but I haven’t heard anything, also when I’m going back to work.

  32. Michael says:

    I think the California CC’s will feel a lot of pressure to open as a political statement as much as a religious one…

  33. I agree. Cases and hospitalizations are still rising here. Soooo, why are they returning? Also in violation of the order.

  34. Em says:

    My nurse daughter just came in from work – they admitted several new corona v. patients today
    Our area has been very lax in enforcing distance rules or use of masks… she said they were all saying that they knew this was coming as we get hoards of Seattleites escaping the big city.
    Difficult to call the shots on such a new, unique virus…

  35. Michael says:


    I always remember your daughter in prayer.
    This mess is a long way from over and about to get worse.

  36. Em says:

    Michael, thank you – God keep

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