OK, watching a porcupine eating and talking to a woman, and its adorable, but have I been under a false assumption my whole life? Is there no danger of getting stuck by a porcupine quill? I mean, she’s just reaching in, grabbing his corn, adjusting his bow-tie…
Eating corn is more edifying than just about anything anyway. As a resident porcupine I’ll say that getting edified is best accomplished by praying in the spirit but then you’ll get accused of selfishness. So …
Hmmm
If God is not the author of confusion, how does not using your mind work? ? ?
My time of prayer always includes a reminder (for me) before the Father what His only begotten Son went through to offer us reconciliation to our Creator….
Hmmmm
It works like this … “For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.”
1 Corinthians 14:14-15 ESV
I would add tears when praying in the spirit (but that may just be me), and worship and praise is the escalator into His throne room.
I to sing this song:
Enter into His gates thanksgiving,
Enter into His courts with praise.
Enter into His gates thanksgiving,
Enter into His courts with praise.
Rejoice and be glad in our Salvation,
Rejoice and be glad in the Father of Lights
Rejoice and be glad in our Creator
Rejoice and be glad in the Ancient of Days
(Based loosely on Psalm 100)
More and more I’ve found, that when I have physical pain, the answer is worship and praying in the spirit
When I experience emotional suffering, the answer is worship, and praying in the spirit
When I hurt for someone else, the answer is worship, and praying in the spirit
When I don’t know how to pray, the answer is worship, and praying in the spirit.
Why does one need to pray “in the Spirit” with tongues and groaning? Can I pray in the Spirit using discernible words?
I’ve done both—tongues and groaning—and found it quite unsatisfying. I felt like a phony when I spoke in tongues. It’s wasn’t a deeply meaningful action for me. Praying earnestly with words is more comforting.
But I am not into the mystical or “not understandable” aspect of spirituality.
I’m a cradle Lutheran and actual liturgies are branded into my memory to good effect.
Hoppy
Praying in the Spirit can certainly be done with rational words. I don’t care how anyone prays — I was just responding — the beauty of spiritual language is that my spirit prays and my mind — which is often suffering —- rests.
I think tongues can be phony — and the edification test is telling in that regard — if it’s phony quit. It heals me.
Recommended as an introduction to the archaeological history of Jerusalem:
‘Under Jerusalem: The Buried History of the World’s Most Contested City’ by
Andrew Lawler.
I can recall my Glendale, CA Presbyterian days – every Sunday morning service began with the congregation standing singing “Holy, Holy, Holy…..” a cappella
Large church (5,000 members). Not all there at once, I’m sure, but in that old brick church? The sound truly did sound “holy!”
pondering the mention of “name it and claim it…” Evil! ! !
Something about “friendship with the world is enmity with God…” How can we do anything that pleases God more than our Faith in His reality, His revelations, His demands on our life? ? ?
May God keep us strong in Faith in His faithfulness….
Michael…do you expect Coach Zimmer to be fired today? I think he’s gone, probably before noon Central Time. I just can’t see them letting him stay with so much talk and pressure on him already. Of course that is how I see things from 900 miles away from Minneapolis. Oh, just saw your tweet to the right…
I’m late to this discussion, but our Blogmeister returned to Liturgical church, Dreadly is comtemplating it, a few acquaintances have gone there, can you explain to this non-denom evangelical the appeal?
Evangelicalism functions as if it invented the faith. Every preacher is a pope. The liturgical churches are rooted in the Great Tradition of our faith.
The sacraments keep the church tethered to the Gospel — though the mainline churches belie that claim.
If one is deeply rooted in Christ the historic creeds and liturgy have value and the cult of personality is avoided.
I don’t get it. If the point is to get back to the historic church, how could joining a tradition named after a man from the 1500’s possibly fill that? Isn’t there always going to be a point as an Anglican, that you say we are “Historic” and Orthodox say, “Hey, you are 1,000 years late on that.”
So I guess going Lutheran or Anglican is older, but then how old is old enough? Why stop 16th century?
Now, don’t think that I am saying one should avoid Lutheranism or Anglicanism, just saying for me, if I wanted historicism, I would be thinking 100-300 AD, not 1500-1700 AD. Just the way my brain works.
Many, and I do mean, many have taken that route. A majority of the priests in the OCA are converts. Here’s the dilemma. Rome is not monolithic. There are tribes and factions ranging from right to left and high to low. Much of Orthodoxy has cultural baggage as a part of the immigration saga. So there are still issues for those taking that journey. Theologically, I am closer to the Orthodox. Culturally, I’m an Anglican. Church is not easy these days…😁
The liturgies are (with the exception of Orthodoxy) similar in many ways. All cover the bases of the historic Gospel and diminish the personality of the priest.
Yeah, I understand that. Its just that most every schism has been an effort to recover New Testament Christianity. We all have our ties to the historic church. It’s great that many appreciate a liturgy that is several hundred years old. I guess the appeal to history isn’t as attractive to me in this phase of life.
I am not a Lutheran theologically. Baptismal regeneration will never do — though Luther on the Supper is most descriptive of my public administration.
I actually remain firm in believer baptism though it’s been bastardized by the multiple baptisms people insist upon.
I could be an Anglican but never it’s American spawn.
Culturally I don’t prefer public liturgy as a form of worship. The free church tradition suits me well. There I’ll likely remain my critiques notwithstanding.
I am wandering some with regard to charismatic practice. The last 2 years have been insufferable as per prophets.
Oddly enough, for an Anglican priest, the public liturgy is not the defining action. It is the vow to say Morning and Evening Prayer. For me, it is what I’ve done for almost 40 years and, likely, will do until I die…
“Day By Day” if you know this hymn and you feel pressed down,, it is well worth a listen …
Or singing…. Just came from lifting my own soul by listening to it sung on youtube
So thought I’d share my thought. 😘
God keeo
Yesterday as the sun went down the sky turned pink and, since we are blanketed in snow, it turned the landscape pink also.
Everyone up here was talking about it – never seen it before….
And no, I don’t think it was a message from God
***
Could have been, though? ? ? ..😚
As if we stay on topic any other day…
I just spent 2 minutes and 52 seconds watching a porcupine eat corn…and it was more edifying than anything that’s happened here in days…
Lol! I saw and enjoyed that one too.
was said porcupine eating it off the cob?
OK, watching a porcupine eating and talking to a woman, and its adorable, but have I been under a false assumption my whole life? Is there no danger of getting stuck by a porcupine quill? I mean, she’s just reaching in, grabbing his corn, adjusting his bow-tie…
🤗 🤔 🤗 🤔
Dan,
Yep…
Eating corn is more edifying than just about anything anyway. As a resident porcupine I’ll say that getting edified is best accomplished by praying in the spirit but then you’ll get accused of selfishness. So …
Dread – guard down, no fight here, I just want to be edified. How do you pray in the spirit?
Josh
Guard down… with tongues, groans, silence and liturgy. With as little engagement of mind as possible.
hmm. OK. Say more when you can. I am listening.
Hmmm
If God is not the author of confusion, how does not using your mind work? ? ?
My time of prayer always includes a reminder (for me) before the Father what His only begotten Son went through to offer us reconciliation to our Creator….
Hmmmm
Em
It works like this … “For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.”
1 Corinthians 14:14-15 ESV
I would add tears when praying in the spirit (but that may just be me), and worship and praise is the escalator into His throne room.
I to sing this song:
Enter into His gates thanksgiving,
Enter into His courts with praise.
Enter into His gates thanksgiving,
Enter into His courts with praise.
Rejoice and be glad in our Salvation,
Rejoice and be glad in the Father of Lights
Rejoice and be glad in our Creator
Rejoice and be glad in the Ancient of Days
(Based loosely on Psalm 100)
More and more I’ve found, that when I have physical pain, the answer is worship and praying in the spirit
When I experience emotional suffering, the answer is worship, and praying in the spirit
When I hurt for someone else, the answer is worship, and praying in the spirit
When I don’t know how to pray, the answer is worship, and praying in the spirit.
Dread – what do you mean by liturgy?
Why does one need to pray “in the Spirit” with tongues and groaning? Can I pray in the Spirit using discernible words?
I’ve done both—tongues and groaning—and found it quite unsatisfying. I felt like a phony when I spoke in tongues. It’s wasn’t a deeply meaningful action for me. Praying earnestly with words is more comforting.
But I am not into the mystical or “not understandable” aspect of spirituality.
Which I admit, may be part of my problem.
Josh
I’m a cradle Lutheran and actual liturgies are branded into my memory to good effect.
Hoppy
Praying in the Spirit can certainly be done with rational words. I don’t care how anyone prays — I was just responding — the beauty of spiritual language is that my spirit prays and my mind — which is often suffering —- rests.
I think tongues can be phony — and the edification test is telling in that regard — if it’s phony quit. It heals me.
Josh
The liturgies in our church were actually chanted by both people and pastor. I loved liturgy and may return to it in my dotage.
Recommended as an introduction to the archaeological history of Jerusalem:
‘Under Jerusalem: The Buried History of the World’s Most Contested City’ by
Andrew Lawler.
It is a fascinating story…
https://www.amazon.com/Under-Jerusalem-Buried-History-Contested/dp/0385546858/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1641750714&sr=8-1
I can recall my Glendale, CA Presbyterian days – every Sunday morning service began with the congregation standing singing “Holy, Holy, Holy…..” a cappella
Large church (5,000 members). Not all there at once, I’m sure, but in that old brick church? The sound truly did sound “holy!”
pondering the mention of “name it and claim it…” Evil! ! !
Something about “friendship with the world is enmity with God…” How can we do anything that pleases God more than our Faith in His reality, His revelations, His demands on our life? ? ?
May God keep us strong in Faith in His faithfulness….
Michael…do you expect Coach Zimmer to be fired today? I think he’s gone, probably before noon Central Time. I just can’t see them letting him stay with so much talk and pressure on him already. Of course that is how I see things from 900 miles away from Minneapolis. Oh, just saw your tweet to the right…
ok I just checked around a bit..looks likely he will be let go (cf CBS Sports report from Jan 8).
Dan,
He and Spielman were fired this morning…after his disgraceful, petty, bs yesterday, I couldn’t be happier.
Yep. Saw the news flash a few hours ago. Needed to be done.
I’m late to this discussion, but our Blogmeister returned to Liturgical church, Dreadly is comtemplating it, a few acquaintances have gone there, can you explain to this non-denom evangelical the appeal?
The appeal is worshipping as the historical church has worshipped, the way that worship is prescribed in the Scripture and tradition of the church.
Done properly, it also removes the personality cult aspect of modern churches.
JTK
Evangelicalism functions as if it invented the faith. Every preacher is a pope. The liturgical churches are rooted in the Great Tradition of our faith.
The sacraments keep the church tethered to the Gospel — though the mainline churches belie that claim.
If one is deeply rooted in Christ the historic creeds and liturgy have value and the cult of personality is avoided.
Yes I see Michael beat me to it
If that is the driver, why not Catholicism or Orthodox?
I count those as viable options though I won’t likely do it at this late moment.
josh,
Those are options, as is Lutheranism.
I don’t get it. If the point is to get back to the historic church, how could joining a tradition named after a man from the 1500’s possibly fill that? Isn’t there always going to be a point as an Anglican, that you say we are “Historic” and Orthodox say, “Hey, you are 1,000 years late on that.”
So I guess going Lutheran or Anglican is older, but then how old is old enough? Why stop 16th century?
Now, don’t think that I am saying one should avoid Lutheranism or Anglicanism, just saying for me, if I wanted historicism, I would be thinking 100-300 AD, not 1500-1700 AD. Just the way my brain works.
Josh,
Many, and I do mean, many have taken that route. A majority of the priests in the OCA are converts. Here’s the dilemma. Rome is not monolithic. There are tribes and factions ranging from right to left and high to low. Much of Orthodoxy has cultural baggage as a part of the immigration saga. So there are still issues for those taking that journey. Theologically, I am closer to the Orthodox. Culturally, I’m an Anglican. Church is not easy these days…😁
Josh,
The liturgies are (with the exception of Orthodoxy) similar in many ways. All cover the bases of the historic Gospel and diminish the personality of the priest.
Josh
Despite my background Lutheranism is no option for me though it lingers in my personal devotion.
Yeah, I understand that. Its just that most every schism has been an effort to recover New Testament Christianity. We all have our ties to the historic church. It’s great that many appreciate a liturgy that is several hundred years old. I guess the appeal to history isn’t as attractive to me in this phase of life.
Dread, why not?
Theologically, I’m an Anglican…culturally, I’m probably closer to the snake handlers, but I’m trying…
Theologically, I’m flailing 🙂
Culturally, ugh. Southern Culture has it charms, but its pretty nasty too 🙂
All of the liturgies have roots in the early church…they deal with the primary elements of the faith and the commands of Christ.
The Anglican liturgy would be understood as well in the 3rd century as it is today. I’m not schooled enough in the others to comment.
Josh
I am not a Lutheran theologically. Baptismal regeneration will never do — though Luther on the Supper is most descriptive of my public administration.
I actually remain firm in believer baptism though it’s been bastardized by the multiple baptisms people insist upon.
I could be an Anglican but never it’s American spawn.
Culturally I don’t prefer public liturgy as a form of worship. The free church tradition suits me well. There I’ll likely remain my critiques notwithstanding.
I am wandering some with regard to charismatic practice. The last 2 years have been insufferable as per prophets.
I am neither fish nor fowl — belonging is hard these days
“belonging is hard these days”
Ain’t that the truth.
Oddly enough, for an Anglican priest, the public liturgy is not the defining action. It is the vow to say Morning and Evening Prayer. For me, it is what I’ve done for almost 40 years and, likely, will do until I die…
I respect that.
“Day By Day” if you know this hymn and you feel pressed down,, it is well worth a listen …
Or singing…. Just came from lifting my own soul by listening to it sung on youtube
So thought I’d share my thought. 😘
God keeo
Yesterday as the sun went down the sky turned pink and, since we are blanketed in snow, it turned the landscape pink also.
Everyone up here was talking about it – never seen it before….
And no, I don’t think it was a message from God
***
Could have been, though? ? ? ..😚
Four free at-home COVID tests now available, at no charge.
Took me less than a minute to apply.
https://special.usps.com/testkits