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213 Responses

  1. Uncced says:

    I saw Marantha’s announcement of Ray 10 mins after seeing Mike Macintosh’s Facebook prayer request because his heart surgery was canceled due to lack of ICU beds because of COVID.
    If you know the history between the two you know the irony.

  2. DavidM says:

    I do wonder if Bentley had been vaccinated.

  3. Michael says:


    Me too…

  4. Dread says:

    A post Christian church?

    Russell stoking the fires.

  5. bob1 says:

    Russell telling the truth

  6. Dread says:

    I’d say – post Christian has a lot of company
    — Indulgences for St Peter’s
    — Inquisitions for heretics
    — Crusades for Muslims
    — Baptismal drownings for radicals
    — Beheadings for Henry’s bed freedom
    — pyres for witches
    — ropes at the hands of hooded clans
    Post Christian has been around a long time so far those guys are lightweights

    Results vary

  7. josh hamrick says:

    Dread is correct. Its a sad history indeed.

  8. Dread says:


    Sheep and goats
    Wheat and chaff

    Labels lie

    Why God allows this is just one more mystery in his mercy —- he is long suffering

  9. josh hamrick says:

    WHich label are you speaking of here?

  10. Dread says:


  11. Kevin H says:

    Post christian indeed has much history.

    This is just the latest iteration, even if by some measures it may not be as bad as some past iterations.

    Even so, the irony this time around is many of the post-Christian Christians decrying post-Christian culture yet being blind to the same happening within the church, where it should be a much greater matter of concern.

  12. Duane Arnold says:

    “One cannot carry Good News to people you might, if things get bad enough, have to beat up or kill. One cannot bring about good by doing evil. One cannot “stand for truth” by employing lies.”

    Russell speaking the truth…

  13. Linnea says:

    Michael- I’m assuming the links to VAERS and Tips on Online Debates are directed at me.

    Let me say this. I started following this developing pandemic in January 2020, long before it was on anyone’s radar. In my job, I’m privy to information most don’t have. To assume that this virus was natural, and that the plan to implement it was not manufactured by some entity is naive. To assume that the VAERS database is abused by anyone making entries is also naive. It, along with some credible data coming out of the UK and Europe in general, shows that this whole event was manufactured, managed, and the fear quotient purposely elevated by the predominant media.

    I have never been a conspiracy theorist, but after examining all the publicly accessible data, I’m convinced this was a coordinated effort.

    In addition, my workplace is 98% vaccinated, but is experiencing COVID cases 2-3 times/day. This can’t possibly be all the “uninformed and non-compliant” unvaccinated.

    I’m happy to provide primary research links if anyone is interested, but I suspect no one is interested in examining the data because it doesn’t fit their own narrative.

  14. Michael says:


    When I put the Linkathon! together it’s never directed at anybody…it’s a quick compilation of things I found interesting this morning.

    I usually don’t even read the links in entirety.

    So…no, they weren’t directed at you.

    You’ve known me a long time and should know by now that if I have something to say to someone, I say it.


    I don’t have a narrative…I am pro vaccine and also the current victim of vaccine injury.

    I think the Biologos link was about evolution, not vaccines.

  15. Dread says:


    Michael wouldn’t back door you.

    He’ll smack you in the face.

    That’s why we get along he’s not passive aggressive —


  16. josh hamrick says:

    Hi Linnea, I don’t think you are qualified to understand and interpret medical research and data. Please find a local health professional that you trust (family doctor?) and ask them about all your concerns. The internet is poisoning your mind on this.

  17. Dread says:

    Oh Josh

    I think you just ASSumed the wrong thing

  18. Michael says:



    For a little more background than needed…I hate doing the link article.
    It’s time consuming and hard on my hands…and there is less and less out there that I find worth noting .
    I get weary of trying to balance liberal and conservative, evangelical and mainline knowing that whatever I do, someone is going to get bent.

    It’s filler content with an occasional gem…

  19. Dread says:

    Imagine the fury if I did the linkathon.

    Problem is I am not curious enough to give a damn about much these days.

    Like I tell people – I’m not prejudice I hate everyone. If I had to read more I’d be even less tolerant.

    Someone who’s more Christian than me and less than Michael take up the linkathon. He needs a break.

  20. Em says:

    Not me….. 🙆

  21. Duane Arnold says:

    “If I had to read more I’d be even less tolerant.”

    Not a surprise…

  22. josh hamrick says:

    Dread, where was my false assumption? Do we have an MD sharing unsolicited (controversial) medical opinions on this forum? That would seem to be bad for her practice, right? Terribly unprofessional, at best, to give medical advice to patients she has never met.

    But I’m guessing I’m right, and she’s not a doctor.

  23. Dread says:

    I did not see her giving medical advice to patients. Could have missed it.

    I do know her a little and don’t think she’d speak carelessly or uninformed.

  24. josh hamrick says:

    She’s not qualified to speak on the things she is speaking on, and we are not the people she needs to be speaking about it to.

  25. Dread says:

    Oh and I don’t think you have to be an MD to make the statements she made.

  26. josh hamrick says:

    And if it seems I’ve insulted Linnea by saying she was unqualified, that has been my song every time the discussion comes up here. No one on this blog is qualified.

  27. josh hamrick says:

    You don’t have to be an MD. Thanks to the internet, you can be a fourth grade dropout and give the world medical advice about a freaking pandemic. Lets avoid that, OK?

  28. Dread says:

    She’s given no medical advice that I see. Don’t know what riled you.

  29. Dread says:

    Besides the CDC and the federal government have injected themselves deeply into the doctor patient relationship. Doctors’ ability to treat their patients in this pandemic have been usurped.

  30. josh hamrick says:

    She’s offering links to “research” (conspiracy drivel), that she isn’t qualified to do. It helps no one. Take it local. Talk to your doctor about it. Follow what he says. If you think he is also in on the big conspiracy, get another doctor. Playing medical detective across the internet can only produce bad results.

  31. josh hamrick says:

    I’ve had no trouble getting, honest accurate advice from my doctor.

  32. josh hamrick says:

    And if I start to have trouble, phoenixpreacher isn’t the second place I’m going for guidance.

  33. The New Victor says:

    I work in a small group. One guy is out with covid (+booster), and another is home as his vaccinated high school son tested positive (though no symptoms). There was a hint from our primary school that they might be on the verge of going back to virtual learning despite kids not really being at risk. D9 is vaccinated. I heard from a school district employee, not part of the teachers’ union, that the union was pushing hard in the summer for another year of remote learning (seems like they worked it out).

    I recently got notice that parents with kids in after-school could get short notice to pick up our kids due to staffing issues. What a mess…

  34. Michael says:


    We’re in a world of hurt here, too…

  35. The New Victor says:

    You got it worse in Oregon with the fire devastation…

    We also traveled to the foothills (motherload) and the Sacramento area last week. Hardly anyone was wearing masks, <5%, if that. On the one hand, the concern is spread; while on the other, the majority of Californians outside of the bay area are just sick of all of it. I'm on the fence about getting a booster. I comply with my locality and work rules.

    I hope that you pull though your reaction, Michael.

  36. Steve says:

    Linnea, I’m with you and it fits my narrative. I suggest that anyone who wants to learn the truth about covid and vaccines needs to broaden who they listen to. I learned a ton listening to some of Joe Rogans podcast with Sanja Gupta at CNN but Sanjay made a poor case for vaccines when you have natural immunity. Joe has interviewed the top doctors on this stuff. Peter McCullough is probably the most published cardiologist in the world, yet he is being censured for covid misinformation. This is unbelievable. He is not alone. There are thousands of doctors being censored now.

  37. josh hamrick says:



  38. Dread says:

    In terms of truth telling I’d take Rogan over Fauci every time. That evidence is everywhere. If Rogan gives you baloney it’s zeal – with Fauci it’s guile.

  39. josh hamrick says:

    I do not know either gentleman, and do not trust either with my health. That goes to a local doctor for me.

    However, in terms of medical expertise, to listen to Joe Freakin Rogan over Dr. Anthony Fauci is just another great marker of out societal decline.

  40. Dread says:

    Oh yeah Fauci has the expertise – for sure
    He also is the marker of our decline

  41. Steve says:

    I just started listening to Rogan. He is an intelligent interviewer but what I like even more is with his guests with the diversity of thought he engages with. Kind of like this blog with the diversity represented but instead in the secular areana. Agreed, Fauci has to go.

  42. josh hamrick says:

    Fauci, at worst, is an evil mastermind with no power.

    In reality, he’s just a dude put in a terrible situation. No way to win from where he was. If you just ignore him, like I have, you’ll see he actually doesn’t help or hurt. The right-wingers have from day one decided that his face on their TV was a sign of evil manipulation, but he is honestly, just a face on TV.

  43. josh hamrick says:

    Rogan is fine to listen to for entertainment, though his shock jock schtick wore thin on me many years ago. Listening to him for any kind of real insight is a bad, bad idea.

  44. Dread says:

    I trusted Fauci

    But he fell in love with his own face on tv. Nothing is more ruinous than public attention.

    Besides it all — Covid is the master chess player so far —

    I think America has been in advanced confusion since 9/11 and our lies about WMDs

    We’re drinking from the cup of fools and I think there’s no exit.

    Confusion is the ultimate tool of dealing with enemies in scripture. That’s how God handles them.

    Doesn’t mean the church cannot rise or that the Gospel has failed. His kingdom has no end.

  45. josh hamrick says:

    I have paid zero attention to Fauci since the earliest days of the pandemic. I don’t blame anyone who doesn’t trust him. I would urge all not to exchange Fauci for a guy like Rogan. Exchange him for someone local, in real life. You are correct abut the advanced confusion, and this is one way to combat it. Just shut it down, at least on this one issue.

  46. Steve says:

    Rogans 3 hour interview segments let’s a listener really understand the guests on his show. The guests speak for themselves not for Rogan. Rogan is just a facilitator.

  47. Dread says:


    The long form interview is supplanting cable news. I found my way into the world of podcasts about 5 years ago listening to Jordan Peterson – men especially are flocking to this kind of information gathering.

  48. josh hamrick says:



  49. Steve says:

    Dread,. That totally makes sense. I think this is why Sanjay Gupta CNN medical correspondent of all people felt he needed to go on the Rogan Podcast. CNN just doesn’t have the reach it needs. And when you realize CNN is basically a 4th branch of government in the Biden administration, it won’t surprise me if Fauci is next to show up on the Rogan podcast. Now that would be fun. But Fauci would be roasted, so I doubt it would happen .

  50. josh hamrick says:

    You guys are 2/5 of the way to BINGO in the category of “Internet Voices for Right-Wing Confirmation Bias”.

  51. Michael says:

    I’m looking for the handle…there has to be a way to flush this mess…

  52. josh hamrick says:

    Nah, this is a gas-station restroom in southern Georgia.

    No choice but to go right on top of the clog.

  53. Steve says:

    Joe Rogan is not a right winger. I never heard of Jordan Peterson, but if Dread likes him, I’m going to check it out because Dread seems really reasonable and that’s enough to spark interest.

  54. josh hamrick says:

    You’ll get what you are looking for.

  55. Dread says:

    Actually Josh

    As you can tell I geek out on confirmation right here where the love is never-ceasing


  56. Michael says:


    You would be much better served by stopping all inquiry into the culture wars and taking a course in church history from one of the many institutions online.
    Then, perhaps a course in systematic theology.

    There are free resources that would broaden your horizons.

  57. josh hamrick says:

    Dread, I hope you can tell I’m goofing around. Of course, I don’t listen to those guys or whoever you might think is the left-wing equivalent.

    Any guesses as to the other 3 who would give you BINGO?

  58. Michael says:


    I would mostly agree with your advice about the local doctor.

    However, (as I am painfully finding out) they are not immune to the polarization of a pandemic and are evidencing the same damnable tribalism we see here and everywhere.

    Rogan has become a national power broker…I’m hoping he has some moderate people on at some point who don’t do Infowars after his show…

  59. Steve says:


    Your advice is well taken. However, I’m not really inquiring about any culture war at all. Since I’m not the pastor here, I guess the implication is I am the clog. I understand this blog is for the pastors and I’m not one. I have to go anyway to snow blow some side walks. I’ll continue to read here with much interest but try not to scare away Dread. He is the only one making sense at times.

  60. Dread says:


    Sure I’ll guess
    Ben Shapiro
    Dave Rubin
    Brett Weinstein

    There’s more and none of them are right wing except Shapiro

  61. bob1 says:

    CNN is basically a 4th branch of government in the Biden administration

    Now, there’s a very special kind of stupid.

  62. josh hamrick says:

    Shapiro gets you to 3 of 5!

    Any other players out there?

  63. Michael says:


    You are neck deep in the culture wars whether you know it or not.

    Like many here, you are also painfully ignorant of church history and theology which should be your greater concern.

    Dread and I do not scare each other…

  64. Michael says:

    The “clog” so to speak , is the fact that I have been completely unable to stop this place from becoming another source of misinformation and tribalism.

    I have not been able to stop it in my personal circle either.

    My attempts on instructing people on how to do research on any topic have crashed into the waves of interminable bull… that passes for “information” these days.

    If everyone is an expert, no one is… and we are utterly doomed.

    When a disease becomes the object of tribal markers, those that die of it may be the fortunate ones.

    I hate this.

  65. Dread says:


    I believe the culture war matters and that if it is not successfully engaged genocide will result. I also believe church history and theology are crucial to that end.

    I don’t mind being an outlier on the issue so the scorn is unending even from friends.

  66. Michael says:

    I have scorn for ideas, not for people…especially those I have travelled with for many miles.

    Who will be the victims of the “genocide”?

    Old white men still hold the power and the weapons and the wealth…and history tells us they will use them if necessary to hold on to what they have.
    American history…

  67. Dread says:


    That’s a bit of a caricature.

    Totalitarianism has been multicultural.

  68. Xenia says:

    Both our doctors, the one whose office we visit and the one who is a close family friend, both say the hospitals are full of non-vaxxed people who are very sick and often die. They say vaxxed people might get Covid, but they usually walk out of the hospital on their own two feet. It’s so clear to both of them that the vax makes all the difference. As a matter of fact, our daughter was delayed getting a bed at Stanford because it was full of unvaxxed Covid patients. (She wasn’t going to make it anyway, but it might wreck some other patients’ chances.)

    It may be that some of the non-vaxxed deaths were because the people were overweight, elderly, or had immunity issues. So what. Even even the old fat people are my neighbors, the ones Christ commanded me to love.

    One of our doctors asked that we not go to any holiday parties because Omicron is everywhere here in CA and is very contagious. We aren’t fat be we are old. So we are staying home today, which is sad, but if I had cajoled my husband to attend all the Nativity festivities and he got Covid, I would never forgive myself.

    Talk to your doctor. The only 2 people in my life who know enough about Covid and have seen the effects with their own 2 eyes are our 2 doctors. Surely not anyone on the blog.

  69. Dan from Georgia says:

    Thanks for your last 2 comments Michael.

  70. josh hamrick says:

    I am also curious about the genocide. Mentioned before, but not clearly defined

  71. Michael says:


    In this country the power, money, and weapons have always resided in the same hands and still do today.
    That is fact, not theory.
    In this country, whether against blacks seeking civil rights or poor whites seeking union protections, or migrants seeking a new life… that power has been used to crush.

    That is our history.

    Are there stupid things being done by leftists?


    Are they capable of grasping the power, weapons and wealth?

    Hell, no.

  72. bob1 says:

    If everyone is an expert, no one is… and we are utterly doomed

    “Americans have reached a point where ignorance, especially of anything related to public policy, is an actual virtue. To reject the advice of experts is to assert autonomy, a way for Americans to insulate their increasingly fragile egos from ever being told they’re wrong about anything.

    It is a new Declaration of Independence: no longer do we hold these truths to be self-evident, we hold all truths to be self-evident, even the ones that aren’t true.”

    — Tom Nichols, who teaches at the US Naval War College, author of “The Death of Expertise”

  73. Michael says:


    That is a great and important book…but he’ll never be on Rogan…

  74. Xenia says:

    I am not familiar with Rogan other than to notice his name pops up in this type of conversation. I guess he’s the Rush Limbaugh replacement personality?

  75. Michael says:


    Well said and true…but trust me, if you get a vaccine injury the doctors won’t listen…even when the evidence is in black and white.

    We have ruined so much that we may not be able to fix.

  76. Michael says:


    Thank you…it’s not easy being the proprietor of a gas station bathroom…

  77. Michael says:


    Rogan is a former comedian and martial arts fighter turned curious podcaster.
    He is drawing huge numbers.

  78. Xenia says:

    Michael, I believe you. I think doctors are so desperate to get people vaxxed they are downplaying the injuries.

    In fact, that’s the problem. We have been so inundated with hyperbolic nonsense that genuine issues get lost in the mayhem.

  79. josh hamrick says:

    Xenia – Rogan is not a political mind at all. He’s an ex-standup comedian, sitcom actor, UFC announcer. He loves drugs, like, openly loves them. He seems intelligent in that older pothead way, and has a decent sense of humor. He has found, however that giving the right-wingers a platform send his ratings through the roof, so he has begun to sympathize more with their causes.

  80. Michael says:

    “We have been so inundated with hyperbolic nonsense that genuine issues get lost in the mayhem.”

    That is the sad truth in spades.

    One of my cardiologists also worked the Covid ward and had an entire family…parents and one teenage child…die in the space of a couple of days. The remaining child is still on a respirator and has no family now.

    She will not hear anything negative about the vaccine and I do not blame her…

  81. josh hamrick says:

    Michael, I hope you know the bathroom crack was not a jab at you or this place. I was just in a goofy, sarcastic mood.

  82. Michael says:


    Sometimes…the truth hurts…and what you said was true.

    And it hurts…

  83. josh hamrick says:

    No! Man, don’t be hurt by that. Seriously, I just though it was a funny comeback. There was no intent behind it all, except for comedy. I’ve loved this place and the company you guys have provided me for 14 years now. I should be much more careful with my words.

  84. Michael says:


    I know you meant no harm.

    I still think it was an appropriate analogy.

    I have become a fossil…a remnant from a time where people read books and thought through things before speaking lest they be embarrassed.

    The early internet boards I cut my teeth on didn’t conflate opinions with anything but wind…if you had no substance you were exposed and I was painfully exposed over and over again…to my everlasting benefit.

    Moderation in discussion was considered a virtue…citing sources a necessity.

    Now, people just point to links from one of the tribal shamans.

    I don’t fit anymore and I need to think about that.

  85. josh hamrick says:

    This is the only place I’ve ever fit.

  86. Kevin H says:


    I imagine even Jesus, Himself, was at times the proprietor of a gas station bathroom as he mediated the disciples bickering and plays for power and position. You’re in good company and not in something to be ashamed of.

  87. Dread says:


    You did stipulate American history — my bad — my multicultural remark was worldwide.

    The power however has shifted left decisively except for our fragile republic and it’s decentralized constitution.

    But that’s under overt attack.

  88. Michael says:


    Worldwide we are seeing the rise of right wing authoritarianism of the Trumpish kind.

    The power has not shifted left…a comparison of actual policy between Biden and Trump reveals a great deal of similarity…because they are both owned by the same people.

    The overt attack on our constitution came a year ago yesterday…but I haven’t seen much handwringing over that from the right…

    The real narrative is that we are being fed divisive narratives to keep us busy while things proceed as they always have…and our corporate masters remain secure.

    Who are the victims of this genocide?

  89. Michael says:

    Kevin, Josh…thanks.

    I have to find a way that everyone gets heard…but without adding to the mess we already have.

    It was way easier to take down bad pastors…

  90. Duane Arnold says:

    Questionable medical advice, questionable theology, questionable history…all in one thread… Oh my!

    Michael, if you’re a fossil, I’m not sure what that makes me. I tend to favor verifiable facts, real history and a developed and coherent theology…

  91. Dread says:

    As for Josh saying this is where he fits.

    This space has been vital.

    Over time these ‘debates’ change us all.

    Everyone is a dinosaur sooner or later. I discovered that in the last months.

  92. Em says:

    Robert Malone MD – worth looking up…. IMNSHO

  93. Michael says:

    Robert Malone is a crank.
    Look him up…but listen to other voices that challenge him.

  94. Derek says:

    The biggest question on the vaccine that no one, not even angry Josh’s physicians can answer.
    What are the long term effects of the mRNA vaccines?
    [insert commercial line] Did you take the Pfizer mRNA vaccines? If so you may be entitled to…

    Oops, no that can’t happen. Pfizer got the government to exempt them from liability.

    Wonder if they cause cancer/other issues long term? Well, if everyone takes the vaccine there will be no control group and we will never know for sure.

  95. josh hamrick says:

    Is he your personal doctor, Em?

  96. josh hamrick says:

    That’s true Derek. Unfortunately, we didn’t have 10 years to prepare for this.

  97. josh hamrick says:

    Still, I’d ask my Dr. about it before scouring the internet for answers.

  98. Em says:

    This is the only blog I follow.
    Michael has achieved something good here. He IS being used of God.
    Michaeel, don’t denigrate what you’ve been doing You ARE being used by God. God doesn’t mess with popular trends, I don’t think….. 🙆

  99. Derek says:

    Maybe we should have just waited was always an option. People freaking out and staying in this weird freak out over the fact that death might actually strike them caused overreaction.
    The survival rate on this thing was still over 99.4% on the highest age groups.
    We did not need the rushed Trump death jab.

  100. josh hamrick says:

    Disagree, but you certainly present a very learned argument.

  101. Em says:

    Josh @10:10am
    No, he was brought to my attention by my nurse daughter. My daughter has had more than one doctor tell her that she should have been a physician. I trust her.
    Michael, there are a whole lot of us who wouldn’t use “crank” to describe him – FWIW

  102. josh hamrick says:

    Em – That’s good. I’d keep it between you and your daughter.

    (And still consult your physician, too.)

  103. Derek says:

    Josh, just B poopooing everyone for talking about things you wish to not talk about is a cool new persona for you. Sorta aholish, but in line with the new doubting you. Many here have taken that path.
    I bow to your obvious learned self and beg that everyone here go ask Josh’s physician all your questions concerning the Warp Speed vaccines.

  104. bob1 says:

    Disagree, but you certainly present a very learned argument.


  105. josh hamrick says:

    Well, that was dumb.

    But don’t ask my physician, ask your own.

  106. Em says:

    Josh, at my age, at the request of my children, I have been inoculated. Even though I’m pretty certain I had vivid very early on. A mild case as I’ve taken D3 for several years to help my calcium absorption…. God keep

  107. bob1 says:



    A triple!

    Quite an accomplishment.

    Not always easy to achieve…

  108. josh hamrick says:

    Good for you, Em. Digging out of the snow, yet?

  109. Derek says:

    I specialize in being dumb.
    What’s your excuse?

  110. Em says:

    Vivid? Covid… Got to figure out how to spell check off on this tablet

  111. josh hamrick says:

    Born this way.

  112. Em says:

    Not possible, Josh… We have a big snow blows and the best we can do is clear a path to the mailbox and another to the ponies. Snow is about 4 1/2 ft deep.
    AND today it is raining! A giant slushie out there now.

  113. josh hamrick says:

    4-1/2 feet!?!? Wow!

    We haven’t had 4″ here in probably 20 years.

  114. Kevin H says:

    Glad to see that Derek is just as good as before at insulting people when he still pops in from time to time.

    As for his arguments, yes we don’t know the long term effects and obviously won’t know this for years. There is a definitive risk there.

    What we do know however as documented fact, is that these vaccines did go through all the same required testing and validations (including required time lengths) as all other vaccines in our current day, the testing was just completed more rapidly as much of the traditional red tape was cut out so that dead time between testing intervals was cut out. And for our other vaccines that have gone through this currently required testing, very few later on resulted in any greatly severe or widespread side effects.

    We also know by documented fact that in our country alone, over 600,000 people over the age of 65 have died from COVID, out of approximately 5.3M documented cases in their age group. That would be a survival rate of about 89%, far more grim than the 99.4% that Derek tried to claim.

    We also know that although it is a bit more difficult to correlate all the data on such, best estimates show that the death rate of unvaccinated people is about 5 times higher than those who are vaccinated. This being the case, if nobody was vaccinated, we would have suffered hundreds of thousands of more deaths by this point in this country alone, and probably millions more worldwide.

    We know that there have been vaccine injuries that haven’t always been properly documented or verified and we don’t have a clear picture of their full extent or number. We know there are long term risks that we could still find out about over time, although verifiable history shows this risk level is low. And we also know that the vaccines have already saved hundreds of thousands if not millions of lives from death by COVID, with many more yet to be saved.

    If one lays aside any preconceptions and biases they may have and just looks at this data we do have to the best that we can glean it, it would be hard to believe that many would decide that the vaccines as a whole have been a risk not worth taking.

  115. josh hamrick says:

    Only thing I’m angry about is that no one else want to play Confirmation Bias Bingo.

  116. Kevin H says:


    I think you’re also angry that Michael hasn’t yet hired you to be the gas station attendant at his proprietorship. Then you’d get to have control of the key and access to the bathroom anytime you wanted it.

  117. Kevin H says:

    Forgot the 🙂 🙂 🙂

  118. Em says:

    “Confirmation Bias?”

  119. josh hamrick says:

    “the tendency to interpret new evidence as confirmation of one’s existing beliefs or theories”


  120. josh hamrick says:

    Or as the bible puts it : For the time will come when they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, will multiply teachers for themselves because they have an itch to hear something new.

  121. Steve says:

    Josh, I’ll play but I think your “confirmation bias bingo” lottery balls are weighted and biased. It’s too easy to rig these games of chance.

  122. Derek says:

    Whoa there!
    I would consult Josh’s physician there, Kevin before reading that post sized comment.
    Had to tell you since Josh seems to let some off without warning

  123. Dan from Georgia says:

    ANY mention of snow here in GA (and most of the South) initiates panic buying…usually gallons upon gallons of milk, multiple loaves of bread, and other staples that will get tossed into the trash when people realize that they won’t be trapped in their home for weeks on end…

  124. Em says:

    There is NO way I would let them give my child the covid vaccine – period!
    As I’ve said before the covid vaccine is not what we think of when we hear the word, “vaccine.”

  125. josh hamrick says:

    You are correct Steve! I am the Tyrannical Dictator of this game and winners and losers are chosen on my whim!

    Now, throw out a couple of names and see if ya get lucky!

  126. josh hamrick says:

    Derek, it gets tiring being the conscious for everyone here.

    Besides, Kev’s was a TLDR.

  127. josh hamrick says:

    Both of children are fully vaccinated. They even poop indoors sometimes.

  128. Derek says:

    Josh’s physician said Kevin’s comment gave me AIDS.

  129. pstrmike says:

    Is Russell Moore stoking the fires or telling the truth? Maybe both. I don’t put much faith in the church these days, but it is still the best we got unless we take a cue from Dreher and go monastic. Actually, that doesn’t sound all that bad, except when I consider where most people’s heads are at today. Maybe better to take a cue from Antony……. and hope for a rebound.

  130. Steve says:

    Josh, let’s stick with folks inside the church: Chris Rosebrough, James Montgomery Boice, R.C. Sproul senior.

  131. Dread says:

    Dreher !!!!

  132. josh hamrick says:

    All misses! Thanks for playing!

  133. josh hamrick says:

    Derek – what have you been up to for the last 5 or 6 years?

  134. Dread says:

    None of the bingo names is in the church they are members of the intellectual dark web.

    He might go for Steven Pinker or Douglas Murray or Christina Hoff Sommers

  135. josh hamrick says:

    Actually, I’m just gathering names to blo9ck in all my browsers 🙂

    Kidding. The two remaining names are not church figures. They are internet figures, loved by right wingers. Closer to the genre of Ben Shapiro.

    And now, I’ve said to much! I’m just itching to give away all this (fake) money!

  136. josh hamrick says:

    “Josh’s physician said Kevin’s comment gave me AIDS.”

    That is…


    what I…


  137. Dread says:

    Michael are you in complete denial about the left’s aggressive assault on civil liberties and thereby incipient totalitarians.

    As for Trumpism types. India certainly has a monster and communist Xi and his madness.

    I’ve tried hard to see you’re concern that Jan 6 was a coup — no — it was definitely a grab for power — it was an attempt at a ‘legal’ end run — but it was never in any way close to successful and conservatives prevented it.

    Let’s see what else can I say that will 🤬🤯😡?

    And you do sound a little tribal yourself.

  138. josh hamrick says:

    Legal? Pooping in the floor of capital is legal?

    Bucket list!

  139. Dread says:


    Oh now it’s easy… Clay Travis and Candace Owens

  140. josh hamrick says:

    Dread gets one step closer to Bingo. The center square was indeed “every white person’s 1 black friend” Candace Owens!

  141. Em says:

    Josh, the shooting of an unarmed female war vet – is that legal? Was the denial of her military funeral was that legal?
    Who pooped? ? ?
    Biden claimed 2 law enforcement officers were killed that day – they were NOT! ! !

  142. Michael says:


    I am not in denial about anything…but I see monsters everywhere and I see no attempt at mediation that would actually progress the society… from anyone.

    If you scratched me hard enough…and you did…I would say that you are in the ranks of many who are trying to conserve an America that only truly existed in myth and you are just as comfortable with totalitarian means to accomplish this as the nutcases on the left are for their agenda.

    If trying to reverse the results of a legal election to hold power is not a coup, then I don’t know what is.

    When you publically claim genocide is in the offing, the burden of proof lies entirely upon you.

    I have no tribe…I’d love to have one but look like hell in war paint.

  143. Dread says:

    Great response Michael

    If you wait till the genocide is at the door you’re already dead.

  144. josh hamrick says:

    Em – No it was all awful. Oh, I’m sorry, did you think I was taking some side?

  145. Kevin H says:


    Glad to see you are also just as good at using insult over dealing with substance as before.

  146. Derek says:

    I will get back to that question later after I get off work. End of the day and I have to make sure my department ends the week on a good note.

  147. Michael says:


    Who is killing who in this scenario?

    The bigger question…in reading this thread how would anyone in their right mind think that Christians had anything different to aid our society than the garbage they already have?

  148. Kevin H says:


    How about Tucker Carlson? Or Charlie Kirk?

  149. Dread says:


    That response might get you beat up again

  150. Dread says:


    The totalitarians are always the killers. Whoever gets there first. Historically they are mostly socialists who become totalitarians because that’s socialism’s apocalypse

  151. josh hamrick says:

    I don’t see why she’d get “beat up”. It shows that she’s bought into one side of a narrative. I’m sure we could find lots of awful things that happened that day.

  152. josh hamrick says:

    Tucker Carlson and Charlie Kirk – Ouch probably better answers than the one that is left, but no, that is incorrect.

  153. josh hamrick says:

    Dread – Then, by name, I’m guessing the killers are Bernie Sanders, AOC…

    Don’t let fear make you crazy, man.

  154. PM says:

    Charlie Kirk must be on the bingo card

    At -Kevin- you make too much sense!

    And lastly- I grew up in an Anabaptist church; the older(and presumably wiser) I get, the more I believe they have the right answer when it comes to separating the two kingdoms. Most vividly in contrast to evangelicals today (my experience is 99% with white evangelicals), is the anabaptist teaching of love your enemies, etc….a little thing called the words of Jesus. After a debate with my also anabaptist background family members recently, it’s inspired me to dive more deeply into historical Christianity’s positions on self defense, just war, etc.

    I’m not surrounded by passionate nationalists but I am certain that a majority of my Christian friends would minimize Jan 6,2021, admire Kyle Rittenhouse, and generally nod their head in agreement with Charlie Brown’s , oops, Kirk’s tweets. It isn’t Christian, it isn’t conservative, and it’s off base.

  155. PM says:

    I was too slow with Kirk, should have saved my text wall for a second post.

  156. Dread says:


    I’m leaving the names to you guys. As long as y’all have the Trump card you feel justified.

  157. josh hamrick says:

    I just can’t imagine the scenario that brings about the genocide you’ve been mentioning for a while now. I’m trying to understand, but rationally, it makes no sense.

    Granted, Trump did suck, but that’s beside the point.

  158. Michael says:


    We’ve reached a point where the American church thinks the stakes are too high to follow Jesus…

  159. Dread says:

    Enough of this it’s Christmas!!!

    Greetings to Xenia

    I’m done with the banter for today

    Well probably

  160. josh hamrick says:

    Dread – It was Steven Crowder.

    That close to a million fake dollars and you bail on me.

  161. Michael says:

    This thread reminds me…

    Last night went down to the local convenience store wearing Viking shoes, a Viking shirt, a Viking jacket and a Viking face mask.
    Clerk looks me straight in the eye and asks “what’s your favorite team?”

    “The Bears,” I said…

  162. PM says:

    @ Michael- sad but I think true. Including myself in that, but working through it. Reading The Upside Down Kingdom right now and finding it helpful.

  163. Michael says:


    That’s a good place to start…and welcome , if we haven’t greeted you before…

  164. Xenia says:

    Thank you, Dread! It’s a rather gloomy Christmas for us this year, but I greatly appreciate the greetings. God bless you, Dread.

  165. Michael says:


    You still haven’t answered who the victims and perpetrators of the coming genocide are…I would think that somewhat important, if true.

  166. josh hamrick says:

    I should let it be known that I am team “No Genocide”.

    For the record.

  167. Dread says:



    I do love Crowder!!!

    But Rogan and Crowder on the same bingo?


  168. Dread says:


  169. Em says:

    “For the record”. 😇
    We should be smart about the women of the ‘Squad.” Everything I have heard coming out of their mouths shows a hatred [no understanding?] of our democratic Republic.
    Makes me embarrassed to be female… kinda
    But then I am a white anglo saxon 👍

  170. Em says:

    Michael @12:41…. 👍 👍
    Are the stakes EVER to high to follow our Lord? ? ?
    Are there folk who claim to be Christians, but have no roots? I think so……..!

  171. Kevin H says:

    A lot of the worst totalitarian regimes have been socialists, but plenty have not. Hitler, Mussolini, and Imperial Japan for instance were all not socialist. Totalitarians, and heinously murderous ones at that, can come in all political shapes and sizes.

  172. PM says:

    12:51 Thank you. I’ve learned a lot from lurking here for the last few years.

  173. Em says:

    Kevin H. Yes, Satan is versatile! ! ! 👍

  174. Xenia says:

    We just heard from doctor number 3, my brother-in-law. He’s fully vaxxed but is recovering from Covid. He’s fat and old but his case was mild. “Stay home!” says he. “It’s crazy out there!”

    Doctors 1 and 2 say they’ve never seen anything like this before.

  175. Xenia says:

    I think I’ve run out of doctors, but it’s 3 out of 3: Get vaxxed and take serious precautions.

  176. Michael says:


    The numbers in our little area are terrible…and it’s just the start…

  177. Derek says:

    In answer to Josh’s question and probably tl:dr like a Kevin post:
    Abandoning social media. Too dangerous for you if you dissent from mass modern movements. Still have Instagram where I post photos of my beagles mainly.
    Deprogramming my brain from modernity, liberal democracy and other evils of the Enlightenment. I have no party anymore, because most don’t think like I do. I would return to a monarchy and save people from having to think about politics.
    Buying Japanese wood prints, mainly Shin Hanga. Those I also post on Instagram.
    Working, where I continue to move up in my company and have change at making 6 figures finally. Just in time for SCOTUS to probably confirm mandates so I can lose my job because I don’t want to take something that has no long term studies. Regardless of Kevin’s screed, most vaccines take 5 to 10 years to approve because there need to be long term studies so that a lot of people don’t die needlessly. It’s ok. I made enough money in crypto that I cashed it out and payed off all needless bills. I can find a crap job and pay the house note.

    Realizing that most of what I was taught are sins growing up are just lies to conform to the prevailing modern thought.

    Aside: If Jan 6th was an insurrection then the 2nd Civil War will be two obese people on mobility scooters attacking each other in the Walmart parking lot. They will erect a monument to the winner.

    Going to Hobby Lobby now.

  178. So Jesus got them together to settle things down. He said, “You’ve observed how godless rulers throw their weight around, how quickly a little power goes to their heads. It’s not going to be that way with you. Whoever wants to be great must become a servant. Whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave. That is what the Son of Man has done: He came to serve, not be served—and then to give away his life in exchange for the many who are held hostage.” ~ Matthew 20:25-28 (The Message)

  179. Em says:

    Pineapple. 👍 👍

  180. Lnnea says:

    Michael and Dread- thank you for the clarification. I far prefer a punch to the face tan a passive aggressive stance.

    Josh, you make assumptions about me that are erroneous. You assume dis-qualification. I only quote pre-published or peer-reviewed studies big work in the reasearch arena, so am not unqualified to reviewscstudy abstracts, methods, methods, discussions, and conclusions. I believe the difference between you and me is the reporting by US media and studies coming out around the world no

    I have asked for forgiven as on a previous thread for making accusations of you. I did not relieve a response. As a fellow Christian, I would ask you for the same grace.

  181. Lnnea says:

    Michael and Dread- thank you for the clarification. I far prefer a punch to the face than a passive aggressive stance.

    Josh, you make assumptions about me that are erroneous. You assume dis-qualification. I only quote pre-published or peer-reviewed studies in the reasearch arena and studied toward a STEM PhD, and work in the research partnership arena,so am not unqualified to review the studies

    I believe the difference between you and me is the believing the reporting by US media and examining the studies coming out around the world that critically examine COVID treatment.

    I have asked for forgivenes on a previous thread for making accusations of you. I did not receive a response. As a fellow Christian, I would ask you for the same grace.

  182. Dread says:

    Glad to see this response Linnea —

  183. josh hamrick says:

    Linnea, my accusation stands, for you and everyone on this blog. This is not the best place to get or give medical information. I would suggest all speak to a real -live doctor. In the day of everyone being a google genius, I know that is a controversial request.

    Derek – Good to see you around. I affirm your choice of getting off social media. Nothing but a mess, You still doing any carving?

  184. Derek says:

    No carving. Honestly, the last two years have been exhausting work wise. Between Covid keeping people from coming to work for two weeks at a time, the strange mess the labor market is in (no one wants to work even though we are offering wages higher than all the warehouses around and every one needs to hire) and the mess the supply chain is in I have had little time off. We are finally slacking some because work always drops off this time of year for us.

  185. josh hamrick says:

    I guess the bright side is that you’ve had a good steady job. Glad you are finally getting a little breath. Supply chain issues have been nutso this year. I don’t even understand what has happened. So weird.

  186. Derek says:

    The labor market is weirder to me. Our top starting wage here is now $20 an hour in a $16 an hour area. I was supposed to interview someone today who scheduled an interview. They did not show up. None of our interviews have shown up for a month.

    Here is best explanation I have seen of the shipping crisis. Makes the most sense.

  187. Dread says:


    Dude I can’t not love you bro but you’re wrong straight up wrong. If she was doing what you reject you might be right – she wasn’t. She’s given no medical advice.

    I’m not going to waste time arguing with you tonight.

  188. josh hamrick says:

    Derek – that article does make sense. It seems like the supply and demand would have to level out at some point though. As for labor, I’m guessing the unemployment / stimulus checks? Still, very short sighted when there are great opportunities in front of you.

  189. josh hamrick says:

    I guess this was the “accusation” I made?
    “I don’t think you are qualified to understand and interpret medical research and data. Please find a local health professional that you trust (family doctor?) and ask them about all your concerns.”

    I don’t understand why that statement is even slightly controversial.

  190. Dread says:

    “Dread, where was my false assumption? Do we have an MD sharing unsolicited (controversial) medical opinions on this forum? That would seem to be bad for her practice, right? Terribly unprofessional, at best, to give medical advice to patients she has never met.”

  191. josh hamrick says:

    Those were accusations only if she were an MD. You left out the last part where I said:

    “But I’m guessing I’m right, and she’s not a doctor.”

    Ok, so I take her “research” to my Doctor, and he says “Throw that away, it’s garbage.”

    Who should I listen to? A person on a Christian blog that I don’t know, or the actual MD who is charged with keeping me alive?

    If the answer is (obviously) listen to your doctor, I’m just suggesting we skip the middle man all together and start with our personal doctors.

    If that is offensive to a possible future STEM Phd, a dmin, or an ever day idiot like myself, I apologize. It just seems so easy and obvious to me.

  192. Linnea says:


    I sill don’t have an answer from you. I asked for forgiveness on a previous thread for making an accusation against you that may or may not have been true. The veracity of the accusation makes no difference, but to be an accuser puts me in league with the enemy of our souls and that’s not where I want to be be.

    I will say this. Arguing is not how I want to spend time and energy. Prayer is more in line with the battle I want to wage, so will stick to that.

    The divide in the Church is much wider and deeper than I ever imagined. Meaner, too. I think we can all agree on that.

    I’m out of interacting on these threads, but will continue to check in weekly on the prayer thread.

  193. josh hamrick says:

    Linnea, you are forgiven. Honestly, there was never any offense.

    That’s at least two people who have said they aren’t going to interact here anymore because of me, and I really don’t want that.

    I’ve been very active here the last couple of days, because i’m a lonely guy who just needs some people to talk to. I’ve had a blast! Stick around, I will be less combative.

  194. Linnea says:

    Thanks, Josh. I appreciate your forgiveness–while it may not have been an issue for you, I felt the need to apologize, so it was important for me. God’s been schooling me on forgiveness- both getting and giving, so you’ve contributed to my education.

    Glad you’ve enjoyed the interactions here. This site has always inspired discussion and working through issues. Truthfully, the theology discussion is one I don’t feel qualified to enter, so remain silent much of the time, but check in on the prayer thread. I’ve been on and off this site for almost 20 years, maybe more– I can’t remember!

    I’m sure I’ll be back, but right now need a break. Too many irons in the fire and issues to manage.

  195. Dan from Georgia says:


    I stay out of the theology discussions also. Not my thing, but occasionally I find some gems by just reading some of the comments.

  196. Linnea says:

    Thanks, Dan-

  197. Alex says:

    From a comment under the death announcement on Newsweek’s site:

    1 day ago
    Where did you hear Ray was against the vaccine?
    He was vaccinated and had two boosters.

  198. Michael says:


    That’s not the information I have been given by a source very close to the family…I’ve chosen not to write the story yet.

  199. Alex says:

    Your source trumps an anonymous comment on a website.

    Covid is ravaging our area right now and just getting started. Our ICUs are full and hospital beds are nonexistent- those needing hospitalization are being sent out of our area to other hospitals.
    I have many doctors friends, including members of my family. I am a clinician, though not of the medical variety. Doctors and ancillary medical staff are exhausted. Locally, there has been a surge in retirements and transfers out of direct patient care (not just medical providers who must isolate due to exposure). Our biggest health organization was forced to send out a notice just last week to all patients detailing the significant loss of medical staff and asking for alternative ways of postponing or seeking medical care while they try to hire new staff. Doctors are tired on so many levels, including the frustration of providing care for those who, for nonmedical reasons, are not vaccinated. There are several local large (and small) evangelical churches that actively flout the inside-gathering restrictions, refuse mask-wearing, and are loudly vocal regarding anti-vaccine. I have never seen our religious arena so polarized as it currently is. Makes me wish to sequester away into Orthodox settings until the furor recedes. There is such a meanness afoot.

    My small family has chosen to be vaccinated and now boosted. We have a member who is severely immuno-compromised and would likely not survive a Covid infection of significant viral load. Next week, our 8 year old will get vaccinated too – we were uncertain about doing that, but this virus is ravaging our entire community now. Her school had over 50 Covid-ill children just last week. So yes, our child will get vaccinated. We do it for love – for the one we are trying to protect (the child’s mother) – and not out of fear as if refusing the vaccine is some significant strike for ‘freedom’.

  200. bob1 says:

    Thanks for sharing your real-life experience!

  201. Nathan Priddis says:

    Civil War.
    100% certainty. Just not as discussed in the article.

  202. Kevin H says:

    A lot of impressive statistical analysis in that article. However, a couple big red flags.

    One – There is no indication of any peer review conducted by anybody, no less a legitimately recognized statistical or scientific organization. All indications from this report, from its website, and from a Google search attempting to find any commentary or reference to this material is that this author is a secretive lone wolf. That doesn’t guarantee that he is wrong, but it greatly increases the chances that the author could have significantly troubling difficulties and biases in his method and manner of analysis, intentional or not, without anybody ever knowing.

    Two – On his own website, the author states that we are in a, “current craze of COVID-19 tyranny”, that we are in a “modern warfare”, and that, “In order to survive, all classes must awaken to the threats facing humanity under the prospects of a technetronic global biosecurity grid combined with a form of sophisticated scientific dictatorship the likes of which the world has only seen in books and movies…until now.”

    This is a man with some extreme viewpoints and prejudices as to our current times, all the more so reason to be wary of his data and analysis without the review of some legitimately recognized organization. Of course, in his eyes, all those organizations are probably part of the, “technetronic global biosecurity grid combined with a form of sophisticated scientific dictatorship” and so he wouldn’t want his work reviewed by such.

  203. josh hamrick says:

    Derek – Just for honesty’s sake, you read and understood both of those studies you just posted?

  204. Derek says:

    For the most part, yes. They aren’t that hard and always have summaries even for those that can’t understand. They are mainly statistical analysis of numbers and not delving into deep Josh physician stuff. I hacve always been the kind of person who can look at a sheet of data and make sense of it. It is why after getting out of the military I am moving forward quickly in my job. I am leveraging that ability.
    I know you have invested a lot of mental space in “vaccine good” but that might not be true. We have dozens out due to Covid right now at work and people are starting to notice they are all vaxxed. One vaxxed guy went out for Covid and ended up having a heart attack on top of it. Those of us who work around a lot of people can’t just safely ignore what is right in front of our eyes anymore. Ignoring studies because the government tells you “vaccine good” is just starting to look pig headed. Maybe backing off for a while is the best course for people. Doctors aren’t Gods which is why they prescribed opiates for years.

  205. josh hamrick says:

    “I know you have invested a lot of mental space in “vaccine good””

    Zero. I have invested time and thought into “blog for bible and Christian faith, led by a pastor and mostly inhabited by laypeople is not the best place to discuss these issues”.

    If your doctor (or your trusted website, I really don’t care) tell you “vaccine bad” then follow that advice. I just don’t see the need to get on an unrelated blog and try to convince people that you don’t know about it.

    But this is Michael’s blog, and if that is what he wants it to be, that’s up to him.

  206. Derek says:

    Josh, let me tell you why I don’t trust even family physicians totally. My wife worked in the health field for years. Doctors take a lot of favors from drug companies to promote their products. My wife saw this first hand. This is how we ended up with an opiate crisis.
    Right now big pharma has nearly everyone in the bag. Politicians are getting rich off Pfizer stock. There is a lot of money made to keep everyone in the Covid business. Doctors are not immune to money, they have huge student loans to pay off.

  207. josh hamrick says:

    But think about how much sense that makes: You won’t trust you doctor, who most likely wants to keep you alive, but you will trust a post from someone like me, who doesn’t even know you. That’s insanity.

  208. Derek says:

    I just posted my reasons Josh. That is not insanity. Since my visits to a cardiologist, they cannot get my prescription for blood pressure correct. I am home today because the latest drove my blood pressure so low that I felt like I was going to die. This is the third med. Drs do a lot of guessing and experiment on us in the process. So, no I don’t fully trust them and feel quite not-insane in that. So, quit trying to make me look crazy because I see doctors as flawed humans and not some god.
    Btw, besides the blood pressure a few small dark spots on my heart that they want to look at again in a year I am fine. Getting a disease is natural and sometimes we have to deal with the outcomes. Injecting mRNA altering substances into our bodies is a choice. Who gets held accountable if that goes wrong on a mass scale with the vaccines with no long term studies? Not the drug manufacturer, the got exempted from liability at the get go. Right now any study that shows bad stuff gets shouted down. There seems to be no interest in the mass effects of that stuff.

  209. Michael says:

    I took the study link down as I’ve taken a dozen others down.

    We aren’t going to be the home of dueling studies.

    As I’m struggling with my own heart issues since the booster,I have some sympathy with what Derek is saying…but this isn’t going to be the site where it’s all hammered out.

  210. josh hamrick says:

    All that is fine, I just don’t see how going around and around about it on a blog like this helps anything.

    My background is that I work in a smaller (150ish before covid, 80ish now) rural, conservative church. Average age is around 70. Most were taken by the Q-anon stuff. Most though covid was a hoax. They got all their info from fringe websites. A large number left the church, because in trying to take safety precautions, the staff were assumed to be in on the liberal agenda. OF those who stayed, we buried 8 from covid in that first year. Only 2 more in the year since, but I have two in the hospital right now, who probably won’t make it.
    So that’s my real life situation. Everyday, I’m fighting to keep these people off websites and in contact with real people who can actually help them. Because I don’t want to bury them.

  211. Michael says:


    I understand.

    I also understand that railing against people finding info on social media is a lost cause.

    This has affected all of our lives and people naturally want to talk about it.

    The age of true expertise is over…now the experts are those who affirm our political and social views even if they are crazy as hell.

    I didn’t create this…and I’m trying not to contribute to it.

  212. josh hamrick says:

    The last response was to Derek – before I saw Michael’s post.

    But that is a glimpse into my real life daily work. As I’ve admitted many times, I’m lonely and wandering, and the inhabitants of this place have been great companions along the way. Maybe you can understand why I bristle when I see conspiracy theories, false information, heck even true information that would be better parsed in a different place.

    I am not living under a rock. I know the whole situation is a mess. Sometimes, maybe most times, more noise creates more mess.

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