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  1. james tiberius kirk says:

    Shoot, you can’t REALLY put the Bible on the first bookshelf…because it has to be the RIGHT version…

  2. pineapple head says:

    Hayward’s cartoon’s a great.

  3. james tiberius kirk says:

    I’m not sure what to do, how to pray for my 30 year old Reformed OPC friend who’s in MAJOR physical pain in the colon area, and it’s keeping him from serving Jesus as he should (according to him).
    He regularly condemns and cuts down those who believe physical healing is for today (has happened to me), disdains and believes it doesn’t happen anymore (he’s a little extreme in that) and that’s is the very thing he needs the most.

    After my incurable condition was healed, I changed my mind and can’t ignore numerous scriptures that speak to the subject….wondering how he (so far) still can…

    Any advice, counsel, pithy statements are welcome…

  4. Believe says:


    Theo (God) Logical (man’s reason).

    The two are difficult to fuse…”the simple will confound the wise”.

    No wonder there is very little agreement.

  5. Another Voice says:

    Theological is just the adjective form of theology which means ‘study of God’.

  6. Believe says:

    Not to be argumentative AV, but:

    Augustine of Hippo defined the Latin equivalent, theologia, as “reasoning or discussion concerning the Deity”, Richard Hooker defined “theology” in English as “the science of things divine”.

    God and Man’s Reasoning/Science/Logic…that is the etymology of Theology and Theological.

  7. Believe says:

    “pithy statements are welcome…”

    Tell your friend he needs to go see Benny Hinn and if he just has enough faith…and seeds for his need…and claims his healing…he will be made whole. And if it doesn’t happen…he didn’t have enough faith.

    OK, that was cynical…and I was just kidding 🙂

    JTK…I would tell your friend you love him and are praying for him…and encourage him to seek medical care (if he isn’t already)…and commit to praying for him daily and asking God for a miracle and physical healing…if He wills it.

  8. Goose says:

    Have any of you read the recent article by Pastor Chuck Baldwin entitled “Army Report Says Christians Threaten US Foreign Policy” that points to the 78 page report written by Major Brian L. Stuckert, US Army entitled “Strategic Implications of American Millenialism”?

    Here is the link to the article which also provides link to the actual report.

  9. Erunner says:

    Music is up for the week. Nene and KevinH suggested songs that are posted. I also posted one from the Poiema Worship Group that includes Oden Fong and a classic from Mahalia Jackson. Among seven other beautiful songs! Feel free to drop by.

  10. Bob Sweat says:


  11. Nomansapologist says:

    Good Morning, beautiful blog family 😀

  12. Michael says:

    Morning, Nomans! 🙂

  13. Michael says:


    That was a pretty interesting paper that actually made some good points.
    You proved one of them…people have had their panties in a wad over this report…which isn’t a report at all, but an academic paper written for a degree program.

    It gets twisted into the appearance of an official report so the right has something to get everyone barking about.

    I don’t agree with some of his conclusions, but the created hysteria proves some of his thesis.

  14. Lutheran says:


    Have you encouraged him to see a doctor to see what’s going on?

    And WRT healing, I think we need to be really careful to respect what the other person’s POV view is and respect it. You can certainly tell him what you think Scripture teaches, but sounds like he has a different take.

    For example, when James Montgomery Boice, pastor at Tenth Presbyterian in Philadelphia was dying of liver cancer, he explicitly requested that people not pray for him to be healed.

    What I think is more important is not trying to get the other person to buy our theology of healing — no matter how much we’re convinced that our way is God’s way — but to listen to that person and come alongside them.

  15. Nonnie says:

    I love the story of the father who came to Jesus with tears and said “Lord I believe, help my unbelief.”
    Mark 9:24

    To me, that says it all.

  16. Michael says:


    If you believe in healing, then pray God heals him.

    Seems relatively simple to me…

  17. justanotherpastordude says:

    Good day to you all…I was wondering if you guys/gals had any suggestions for Pastors that you listen to in preparation for your weekly studies. I have been grateful to listen to a few Pastors after I have prepared my own sermon, to round out what I actually present. Are there any that you guys listen to that have fairly comprehensive audio libraries? And of course, the best things in life are free…that would be preferred.


  18. Michael says:


    I think I’m adopting that as my life verse…

  19. Michael says:


    What tradition?
    I may check with people you wouldn’t…and vice versa.

  20. Michael says:

    All of my guys are here…

    I will also check Piper sometimes to see how he exegetes a passage.

  21. Erunner says:

    If this doesn’t put a smile on your face nothing will!

  22. justanotherpastordude says:

    I would be excited to listen to any Christian Pastor who offers some form of complete Bible study. Guys who cover the entire chapter, maybe not in a verse by verse treatment, but in a way that covers entire chapters.

    Michael, thank you for the link. I’ll check that out immediately.

  23. Captain Kevin says:

    I kinda like my library of theological disagreements. Got MacArthur and Piper right up there with Hayford and Courson. Chew up the meat and spit out the bones, as they say.

  24. Nonnie says:

    Cap’t. Kevin. I like how you think. Why is it that I find myself in that same camp?
    I find such riches from all of those you have mentioned and more.

    Like I sing with my Sunday School kids. “My God is so Big…..”

  25. Carole Turner says:

    I wrote about Rape this week on my blog.

  26. Nene says:

    Happy Saturday everyone! That video was thee cutest!

    Hi Nonnie, I hope the volcano ash settles soon..looking forward to your visit!

  27. Nonnie says:

    Hi Nene, Yes, hopefully it will clear off before the 8th of May.
    I am really looking forward to seeing you again!

    My mom has her cancer surgery this Monday morning. Would appreciate your prayers.

  28. Believe says:


    Made a statement this morning based off of 1 Cor 5.

    Then in doing more research am reminded of this:

    Revelation 17:8 and Revelation 3:5.

  29. Believe says:

    …and Revelation 13:8.

  30. Believe says:

    Exodus 32:33.

    Psalm 69:28.

  31. Michael says:


    What’s the question?

  32. Believe says:

    No wonder the “Agreement Shelf” is so sparse.

  33. Believe says:

    Michael…do you believe, like Calvin, that Jesus went to hell for a time in order to pay the penalty for our sin?

  34. Believe says:

    Michael…the question is regarding Eternal Security.

    In 1 Cor 5…it appears to me that Paul is telling them to throw the incestuous bastard out of fellowship and “hand him over to satan” so his flesh will be destroyed…so that his spirit may live. I took that as a confirmation of Eternal Security…that once saved…even a heinous sin like incest in that man’s case…would not “unsave” him…even if he was handed over to satan.

    Then in researching eternal security…I am reminded of the verses that appear to say a believer’s name can be blotted out of the Book of Life.

  35. Michael says:


    First off, have you read what Calvin actually wrote in his discussion of the Apostles Creed?

  36. Michael says:

    First off, I hold to perseverance of the saints, not eternal security.

    If you want to look at the topic of whether or not a Christian can lose their salvation, go to the passages that speak clearly to the subject.

    A study on those “books” of life and the living will only shed partial light…

  37. Believe says:

    “But, apart from the Creed, we must seek for a surer exposition of Christ’s descent to hell: and the word of God furnishes us with one not only pious and holy, but replete with excellent consolation. Nothing had been done if Christ had only endured corporeal death. In order to interpose between us and God’s anger, and satisfy his righteous judgement, it was necessary that he should feel the weight of divine vengeance. Whence also it was necessary that he should engage, as it were, at close quarters with the powers of hell and the horrors of eternal death.

    We lately quoted from the Prophet, that the “chastisement of our peace was laid upon him” that he “was bruised for our iniquities” that he “bore our infirmities;” expressions which intimate, that, like a sponsor and surety for the guilty, and, as it were, subjected to condemnation, he undertook and paid all the penalties which must have been exacted from them, the only exception being, that the pains of death could not hold him. Hence there is nothing strange in its being said that he descended to hell, seeing he endured the death which is inflicted on the wicked by an angry God. It is frivolous and ridiculous to object that in this way the order is perverted, it being absurd that an event which preceded burial should be placed after it. But after explaining what Christ endured in the sight of man, the Creed appropriately adds the invisible and incomprehensible judgement which he endured before God, to teach us that not only was the body of Christ given up as the price of redemption, but that there was a greater and more excellent price – that he bore in his soul the tortures of condemned and ruined man.”

  38. Michael says:

    Very good.

    Now as to whether or not I agree with him…I haven’t thought it through enough to be dogmatic.

    Because of his study of patristics and the early church I would tend to go along with his reading.

  39. Michael says:

    “¶ Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.
    But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe.
    All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
    For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
    And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
    For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.””
    (John 6:35–40 ESV)

    “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
    I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
    My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
    I and the Father are one.””
    (John 10:27–30 ESV)

    “And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
    For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
    And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
    ¶ What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
    He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
    Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
    Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
    Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?
    As it is written,
    “For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
    we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”
    ¶ No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
    For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
    nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
    (Romans 8:28–39 ESV)

  40. Xenia says:

    I have not read Calvin.

    But, if he holds to the traditional view of what ‘descended into heaven” means in the old creeds, it is a reference to what used to be called “the Harrowing of hell,” that is, during the three days before His resurrection Christ visited Paradise (Hades), preached to the Old Testament saints, and set the captives free. I haven’t read Calvin but I would be dumbfounded if he believe Christ went to hell to pay for our sins. That is a modern heresy.

  41. Xenia says:

    Make that “descended into Hell” not “descended into Heaven,”

  42. Nene says:

    Nonnie, please know I will be praying for your mom especially Monday….

  43. Michael says:

    Just for clarity, Calvin interpreted the “descent into hell” as meaning that Christ suffered all of the wrath of God on the cross, not that He descended into hell to pay off the sin debt.

  44. Dave Rolph says:

    Hey Believe,

    I’m late today but say your statements about theology. For a little better etymological analysis, see John 1:1. “In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God and God was the Logos.” Still want to argue that Logos=human wisdom? I personally love theology because I love the Logos Who was also Theos.

  45. Michael says:


    Well done. 😉

  46. Believe says:


    Etymology: From the Greek, “speech, word, reason”

    a word, the Word

    From lego; something said (including the thought); by implication, a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (i.e. Christ) — account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say(-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.

  47. Believe says:

    Dave, Objective Standard…absolute Truth is Logos referenced in John 1:1 …the Word.

    Theology…Man’s attempt to understand the Living God…IMO…is Logos as Man’s Reasoning…our feeble finite fleshly attempt which is Subjective both in interpretation and application.

    Therefore, my premise of Theology’s etymology in the context I used stands.

    (I say that with all due respect and not argumentatively).

  48. Dave Rolph says:


    I love you but you just can’t recognize when you are obviously wrong. I think you should go with your definition and stay out of theology completely. 😉 You can’t do serious scholarly work from a dictionary. No short cuts.

  49. Believe says:

    That is where the “problem” occurs and why the “library” will always be sparse on Theological Agreements…

    Because “we” are involved…we cannot truly understand “the” Word….and the Absolute Truth and its deep complexity.

    That is why Child-Like Faith is so important, IMO…otherwise man gets “credit” if he believes he’s “figured it all out”…not that we won’t keep on tryin’ 🙂

  50. Believe says:

    “I love you but you just can’t recognize when you are obviously wrong.”

    More support for my thesis that man will rarely agree on Theology.

  51. Believe says:

    Dave, yes, I am wrong from the framework of yours (and Michael’s) Theological framework of established rules and protocol…but even my being “wrong” from your perspective examples the dynamic that lends to many Theological disagreements.

  52. Michael says:

    Dave Rolph has advanced degrees in theology from respected institutions.

    I have spent the better part of the last ten years pursuing the same.

    You don’t know Calvin from Caspar the Friendly Ghost yet you think your opinions have the same weight and thought behind them.

    We not only study theology, we live and teach the same.

    It’s hard to patiently teach people who think they already know it all.

    It’s called “talking out your a..” where I come from…

  53. Xenia says:

    Since we humans are weak and not so bright it follows that we should not try to invent our own theology, eh?

    In the early days of the Church, once the persecutions had ended and the leaders were free to meet, the Holy Spirit guided and directed the Church in certain matters of theology, such as an understanding (as far as humanly possible) of the Trinity, the Two Natures of Christ, etc. The high points were summarized in the Creeds (especially the Nicene Creed) and were elaborated upon in the writings of the Seven Ecumenical Councils.

  54. deadmanwalking says:

    The penalty for sin is death , Christ died “It is Finished:.

    Hell is a destination –

  55. Michael says:


    You’re wrong because you’re wrong.
    You’re wrong because you haven’t studied enough to be right.

    Theology as a science and discipline has been taught for 1800 years…it has it’s own language and standards just like every other scholarly discipline.

  56. deadmanwalking says:

    Hell = 5020 tartarow tartaroo
    Hell = 1067 geenna geenna gheh’-en-nah
    hell = 07585 lwav sh@’owl sheh-ole’ o

    Then there is the one about the American hell the Mexican hell and the Hawaiian Hell — oh I almost forgot it’s against the law to have a sense of humor now —

    And my humor is spiritually incorrect as well as politically incorrect and probably even PP incorrect —

  57. Believe says:

    “Theology as a science and discipline has been taught for 1800 years…it has it’s own language and standards just like every other scholarly discipline.”

    Yes, that was my original point Michael.

    It is a man-made “science and discipline”…hence my insertion of “logos” meaning man’s reasoning…Subjective Interpretation…not able to completely understand the Objective Standard within Scripture that leads to so much disagreement.

  58. Believe says:

    I can study the rest of my life…and still not be “right”…that is part of the greater point I am trying to make.

    Child-like Faith.

  59. Michael says:


    You’re right.

    Studying to edify oneself and teach the people of God is a complete waste of time and money.

    All we need is to refer to you folks who were born knowing it all.

  60. Xenia says:

    Well, I’m confused.

    Theology means “study of God.” We know Theo means God.

    The -ology suffix means study of, science, discussion.

    I don’t see how “-ology,” used in this instance, relates to John 1:1, which is a reference to the 2nd person of the Trinity.

    Logos is Jesus.

    -ology means “study of”

    So I do not understand Dave’s post.

  61. Xenia says:

    I am sure that Dave is not saying that every time the suffix “-ology” is used it is a reference to the Logos Jesus Christ, such as in the worlds biology, zoology, etc.

    If Believe is saying that “theology” means “the (human effort to) study God,” then I agree with him, just as “zoology” is the (human attempt to) study life.

    Believe is saying that all human attempts (at anything) are flawed, which is why there is so much disagreement.

    At least, I think that is what is his saying.

  62. Believe says:

    “Studying to edify oneself and teach the people of God is a complete waste of time and money.”

    No, it’s not a waste of time…if it leads to being more like Christ and a deeper understanding of the pureness of the Simple Message of the Gospel…and a deeper understanding of God’s will. If it leads to “the more I know…the more I know nothing…”

    However, if it leads to pride and a true “know-it-all” attitude…then it is a stumbling block.

    “All we need is to refer to you folks who were born knowing it all.”

    I am of no Theological pedigree…not that if I were it would be negative…just affirming you that I am as you said. I don’t know anything…other than how my capacity for learning stumbled me and tempted me to question the very existence of God. I studied (and study) Reason…and I know enough to know that it can be a trap…especially when overly applied to Spiritual issues that are MEANT to be confounding…to stumble the “wise”.

    …which is all to say my original commentary about Theology is being further proven by this discussion. “We” are involved. It is mostly Subjective based on Objective.

  63. Believe says:

    X…that is precisely the point I was making…and then the episode of “When Pedigreed Theologians Attack” broke out…

    🙂 (all of that said in love and respect…just poking a little fun)

  64. Michael says:


  65. Xenia says:

    Whoa, Nelly.

    1. A cartoon is posted, for the purpose of inviting the P-Peeps to discuss theological disunity.

    2. Believe comments (to paraphrase) that the “-ology” part of the word “theology” is where the problem lies, since “-ology” means “study of” and is therefore a human endeavor and is therefore flawed.

    3. Dave says Nope, look at John 1:1, at the Logos. He chides Believe for saying the Logos represents human wisdom, which Believe never said. Believe said (to paraphrase) that the suffix “-ology” concerns human wisdom, which is does.

    4. But Dave must be right because he has degrees. (Actually, I don’t think Dave read the thread very carefully.)

    5. Believe is dismissed as undereducated.

    6. Things are explained and cleared up; looks like Believe was right all along.

    7. But…. whatever.

  66. A E A says:

    Barnhouse used an analogy of sodium chloride, (salt) If you take pure sodium and ingest it, it is poison and will kill you. Likewise if you took in the chloride it would kill you.

    And yet we need the two combined. We need salt to live.

    He said it is the same as theology and ethics. We need the combination to be healthy and grow spiritually. But if we only have one it is death. Theologians go to hell that have no ethics, and “good” people go to hell if they don’t have Jesus.

    Jesus said, “if you love Me, you’ll obey my commandments…”
    He also said,”a new commandment I give you, love one another.”

  67. deadmanwalking says:

    AEA —
    I want some good salty chips and hot dogs and refried beans and fries —

    Really good point. Balance is so needed. Knowledge puffs up, and love builds up.

    You can puff up, dry up, blow up or get a balance and grow up ..

    this low sodium diet i have to follow is so hard. Did you have to bring up salt.

  68. Another Voice says:

    You can’t do serious scholarly work from a dictionary.
    John’s use of logos to describe the preincarnate Christ is profound and must be studied in the context of 1st century Greek thought. I would start with Philo.

    Looking up a dictionary definition of logos is about as small of a first step as I can imagine. Like planning on visiting Boston, first looking up on a map how far away it is, then closing the map and telling people you already went.

  69. Xenia says:

    “Logos” and the suffix “-ology” have been confused in this thread many times. I think it just might be time to get out the dictionaries.

  70. Believe says:

    “You can’t do serious scholarly work from a dictionary.”

    That’s probably where some of the confusion is…some of you are doing “serious scholarly work”…I was just making an observation that the reason there is little “Theological” agreement is because “we” (man attached to our flesh) is involved in the pursuit of it.

    Don’t strain the gnat and swallow the camel.

    Gonna leave this one to the Theologians and go eat some salty food and watch some MMA.

    Love you and like you all 🙂

  71. Dansk says:

    “If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.”

    In Jesus’ opinion, the root of the ability to determine right doctrine was in the heart, not the head.

  72. Another Voice says:

    Xenia – this started in posts 4-6, after which I dropped out.

  73. BrianD says:

    Hey. Theology’s useless to the word-faith crowd, too. The closest they come to it is the Amplified Bible.

  74. BrianD says:

    Hey. Let’s introduce another topic.

    Which book serves as the best introduction to N.T. Wright?

    Speaking of, Dan Kimball wrote about Wright speaking at Wheaton College (and other things):

  75. james tiberius kirk says:

    “For example, when James Montgomery Boice, pastor at Tenth Presbyterian in Philadelphia was dying of liver cancer, he explicitly requested that people not pray for him to be healed.

    What I think is more important is not trying to get the other person to buy our theology of healing — no matter how much we’re convinced that our way is God’s way — but to listen to that person and come alongside them.”

    by Lutheran

    In response (to several of you):
    OF COURSE I said see a doctor, he already was.

    And I’m not saying ANYTHING to him; first, he doesn’t need another preachy person; second, he wouldn’t likely (ever?) agree with anything I’d say. And YES, I’m am ONLY listening.

    If someone could PLEASE explain Boice’s position, I’d be grateful.

    This coming from a 37 year old with NO living relatives because they’ve all died. My mom was cured of cancer via a resurrected body only…

  76. Michael says:

    “Whatever” was in reference to the attitude that the study of theology is unimportant and anyone who can talk is entitled to an opinion.
    “Childlike faith” is a theological proposition.
    “What does it mean to have childlike faith” is a theological question

    The point being…we’re all theologians, we’re all doing theology.
    We have a responsibility to do it well and to respect those who dedicate themselves to the task.

  77. Dusty says:

    are you boys being bad tonight?

  78. A E A says:

    Strange thing happened on this thread for me.

    I started to post 66 and got sidetracked then hit send long before the mini-fray.

    The post was not intended to rebuke, reprove, chastise, or any such thing. It certainly wasn’t meant to be a thread killer. I just thought it fit in with the theme and some of the “ministry” debacles covered in the past.
    ( Sorry for the salt analogy DMV 🙂 I wasn’t trying to pour it in you wounds. 🙂 )

    Then my internet connect went down and was going off and on and I never saw another post.

    Glad to see the thread was only “mostly” dead.

  79. A E A says:


    No maam, we are all behaving like brothers.

  80. Dusty says:

    hi AEA, how are you ?

  81. Dave Rolph says:


    I read the thread very well. Believe was criticizing someone else for their definition of theology, and his argument was that the etymology of “theology” was God+human knowledge. “Ology” doesn’t mean “human knowledge” especially if you are using that in a derogatory way as being inferior knowledge. The word “Logos” which is the derivative of the “ology” part of theology should never be defined exclusively as “merely human study” because if that were the case the Holy Spirit would not have chosen that word to represent Jesus, the living Word of God. Thus, “theology” is not derived from “theos” and “logical” but rather “theos” and “logos” or more literally, “word about God.” I would not have taken issue with Believe (who is a friend of mine) had he not taken issue with AV (who happened to be correct.)

    I think I have the kind of relationship with Believe where we can mess with each other, as we do on here periodically, as we rattle each other’s cages. I’m pretty sure he wasn’t offended by what I said, nor was I with what he said. Now I have a UFC and a Strikeforce to watch in one night, as well as simultaneously polishing off my sermon for tomorrow.

  82. Dusty says:

    AEA, behaven like brothers…

    my mom would always tell the kids, “behave’ Little misty would reply, “Mema, I’m haven’ 😆

  83. Dusty says:

    i feel foolish…i use the dictionary all the time.

    baby steps dust

  84. A E A says:

    I’m good Dusty, how are you?

  85. A E A says:

    The dictionary is a good tool. But using the definition of roots of words for theology can be very misleading.
    An example: the definition of politics. poly is a Latin prefix for many and tics are blood sucking parasites. Therefore the problems in government stem from the very word.

    I thought believe was making just a smart remark on the word, then everything got taken too seriously.

  86. Dusty says:

    doing good thanks

  87. A E A says:

    Interesting threads the last few days.

    Tomorrow our text is 1Timothy 3:14-15 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these things to you so that, if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth.

    So the study will be on the Church. What it is, and what it is not.

  88. BrianD says:

    What I missed out on by skipping on the Together for the Gospel conference:

  89. Dusty says:

    hi Brian, feeling any better?

  90. A E A says:

    BrianD, I was going to say bummer dude but,

    You probably already have most of those.

  91. BrianD says:

    I’m alright. Busy.

  92. filbertz says:

    today I was frying up some won tons for a catering job, and one came up whose browning marks looked like the face of Jesus. I was so jazzed! Thought about setting up a little shrine in our kitchen…so I took it to some friends to get their opinions. They all thought it looked like Fidel Castro. So I ate it.

  93. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I find that I rarely agree with myself – and visa versa.

  94. filbertz says:

    that’s our experience with you, too. 😉

  95. deadmanwalking says:

    I’m going to have to change my name — twice in two days I have been called DMV and V is not even close to W on the keyboard — I am not the Department of Motor Vehicles — at least here in California the letters DMV evokes very negative feelings –I get can evoke plenty of bad vibes all on my own without being called DMV. † 🙂

  96. deadmanwalking says:

    should have signed off in German deadmanvalking

  97. Dusty says:

    lol too funny DMW

  98. London says:

    BrianD re: NT Wright
    I’m reading “Simply Christian” right now. So far, not sure why people like Wright so much, but maybe I just haven’t gotten to the “good” part of the book.

  99. filbertz says:

    I’ve had trouble with that too.


  100. BrianD says:

    thanks london

  101. deadmanwalking says:

    Looks like Bryson mass mailed all the CC pastors –“Warning the Calvinist are coming”

    The pastor who took my place just shot me and email, and his only comment was OK I read it and now I have 15 minutes of my life I want back — only 2 years in my shoes and he is already sarcastic


  102. Michael says:


    I’ve got to see that one…don’t hold out on me! 🙂

  103. Michael says:

    Even better…he now has added some nasty letters and responses about me to his website again.

  104. centorian says:

    must be something in the water . do you guys drink out of the lake? 😉

  105. Believe says:

    Rolph said, “I think I have the kind of relationship with Believe where we can mess with each other, as we do on here periodically, as we rattle each other’s cages. I’m pretty sure he wasn’t offended by what I said, nor was I with what he said. Now I have a UFC and a Strikeforce to watch in one night, as well as simultaneously polishing off my sermon for tomorrow.”

    Not offended in the least 🙂 enjoyed being rattled by the Big Guy…and Rolph and Michael have forgotten more about Theology than I’ll ever know.

    Double MMA night tonight…lots of good fights! Velasquez knocked Noriega the you-know-what out! And, Shields came-to in the second round and out-wrestled / out-hustled Hendo. Good stuff…thank God for DVR.

  106. Believe says:

    O boy, this will be interesting…

  107. Believe says:

    DMV…you are cracking me up!

    Here in Idaho…the first time I walked into a DMV after Cali….and went right up to a window…I almost fell over.

    Then I paid $60 for vehicle registration, instead of $600…and I think I did actually fall over a little 🙂

  108. Michael says:


    Not yet… there will be a day when it could get real interesting. 🙂

  109. deadmanwalking says:

    If you can use another good laugh here’s the German Coast Guard

  110. deadmanwalking says:

    It’s in your mail — enjoy

  111. Believe says:

    Just read some of Bryson’s new stuff. Interesting.

  112. Believe says:

    DMV…or BMW…that there’s funny!

    Darn near as funny as what I just read over at Bryson’s site.

    Michael, your moniker is:

    The Certain Anti-Calvary Chapel Pastor of the Calvinist Persuasion.

    Or, Alfred E. Newman…which do you prefer?

    I like CACCPCP for you myself 🙂 🙂

  113. Believe says:

    We could call you PCP for short…which, ironically, may be the cause of all the confusion over there… 🙂

  114. Michael says:


    Thanks…I think. 😉

  115. Michael says:


    I guess it all evens out with the emails that think I’ve gone soft on CC…if everybody’s mad then I’m probably doing it right.

  116. Michael says:

    I’m exercising supernatural restraint right now… 🙂

  117. Believe says:

    Michael…yes, I agree with that.

  118. Believe says:

    …and I agree with that as well 🙂

    See, I’m good for you Michael…I help stretch out your patience and restraint so when something like this comes along…you’ve had a little practice 🙂

  119. Michael says:


    You’re getting my liquor bill this month… 🙂

  120. deadmanwalking says:

    Michael Then take a break and watch the German Coast Guard

    The more times I watch it the more i laugh. Of course having gone to Germany several times helps, because it really captures what Germans who are learning English are like .. and believe it or not they like to laugh at themselves — in one area of Germany the most popular TV show is Hogans’ Heros

  121. deadmanwalking says:

    We gotta bet busy beating those Calvinist out of their closet — but first we need George to tell us how to find them stinkers

  122. Believe says:

    DMV…I think if you throw them in water they float….if they sink, then they aren’t a Calvinist…so we can chain them up, tie a stone to them and toss them in lakes….seems that worked for some group back in history, didn’t it?

    If they sink, well they aren’t a Calvinist.

    It’s fool proof! Let’s get to it! 🙂

  123. Michael says:


    I’m actually starting to feel sorry for the guy.
    That’s a pretty desperate move.

    I’m off to bed…have to infiltrate a Calvary in the morning. 🙂

  124. Believe says:

    Good night PP family. Love you guys…I really mean that.

  125. centorian says:

    MIchael said:

    “I’m off to bed…have to infiltrate a Calvary in the morning. ”

    lol…. I could say more, but I’ve pissed off enough people already this weekend……. 8)

  126. BrianD says:

    “I believe that by my own reason or strength I cannot believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to him, but the Holy Spirit has called me through the Gospel, enlightened me with his gifts, and sanctified and preserved me in the true faith.” – Martin Luther
    Via the Resurgence

  127. Erunner says:

    This is the information I have regarding E-Fest. Since the ,com went down I lost the information we had and had to reconstruct it the best I could. Right now June 5th is the date on the table. The list of people is the best I could come up with and may not be accurate. Please update if you could and I’ll see about getting an article up later this coming week.

    Bob Sweat, MLD, Michael?, grendal, Sarah and David?, Shannon Kent?, Oden, A Believer, Dave Rolph, John and Debbie Duncan?, David, Just curious, Erunner, Nene, Believe, Aponemo Time, victorious, Kat, jlo, same khoury, dusty and buster?, linnea?, dread?

    Right now June 5th is on the table.

    Open dates in June…. 5th and 12th.

    Open dates in July…. 10th, 17th, 24th, and 31st.

    Other possible dates.

    May 15th and 22nd.

    August 7th and 14th.

  128. Bob Sweat says:

    The June dates look good, the July dates will work as well. I just want to see everyone, and get to the table before MLD! 🙂

  129. Erunner says:

    We’ve had the site crash twice as we’ve tried to schedule this. This time I will keep the information where it will be safe. As far as I recall June 5th seemed okay for folks who had a chance to respond. The way I’ve been eating you better look out for me! 🙂

  130. David Sloane says:

    Hey E~runner.
    What’s up with the suspension notice at the Phoenix .com address?

  131. Erunner says:

    David, I believe it got hit with a bad virus that infected all of the files. I’m not sure what the suspension thing is all about. Thanks Dusty!!! 🙂

  132. jlo says:

    Erunner, Dairy Queen is offering blizards at buy one get one for .25. you can down load coupon here

  133. Erunner says:

    jlo, thanks a lot but the scale compels me to say no! 🙂

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