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I just finished the work on my series on the Beatitudes…I think I’ll name the series “Pissing In The Wind’…all teaching on the words of Jesus does is annoy people…once they tire of finding reasons why those words don’t really apply to them or anything they do or think.
These same people will often argue about inerrancy until the cows come home…
One thing about me is I like consistency. If you call out the National Guard to enforce law and order in Los Angeles, then how could you pardon and commute the sentences of the rioters at the Capitol on 1/6? Is law and order like everything else nowadays, in the eyes of the beholder?
I think my preference for consistency arises from my belief in objective truth and an immutable God.
The consistency I expect is that people who call themselves Christians live in Christian ethics and values.
What people call “objective truth” is colored by innumerable other factors, especially (today in America) politics.
Trump was congratulating the National Guard on the great job they were doing in L.A….before they arrived in L.A.
He is like his father, the devil.
“The consistency I expect is that people who call themselves christians live in Christian ethics and values.”
Would be nice, but not this side of eternity, unless you are lucky enough to discover Wesley’s Christian perfection.
I call objective truth, God’s holy Word. Do you have a definition? or disavow the concept?
Jean.
I do not believe perfection is possible…but consistency and consistent repentance is.
The great evangelical lie is that works don’t matter.
Not arguing: Don’t matter in what respect?
Would be nice, but not this side of eternity, unless you are lucky enough to discover Wesley’s Christian perfection.
There’s a. hell of a large chasm between
“Wesley’s Xn perfection” and the opposite. Michael’s right that consistency is what counts and is expected.
I don’t play in Evangelical circles anymore and haven’t for years, so I don’t know how they are inconsistent and what that has to do with works mattering.
I know what God’s Word says, so I would look for a church’s teaching to be consistent with God’s Word. I haven’t ever found an Evangelical church that meets that test, but I might be looking at doctrines that are different from the ones others are looking at.
Jean,
Jesus is God’s holy word.
Objective truth is found in the early creeds and confessions of the church.
I take the Sermon On The Mount as the behavioral standard.
Doctrine without the life of the Spirit and love of God is damning…
“I know what God’s Word says, ”
You hold to a certain set of interpretations of the text you believe are true.
I’m not an evangelical, but many are closer to the Bible (as I understand it) than your sect.
“I’m not an evangelical, but many are closer to the Bible (as I understand it) than your sect.”
If we ever get back to theology discussions, we could test that understanding. I imagine there are Evangelicals here who would be happy to share their interpretations.
We’re going to discuss some basic theology and creedal doctrines this week just to re-establish a baseline.
I’m utterly disinterested in wringing over 500 year old positions that some think were codified in stone.
I won’t take time away from the cats for that crap.
Michael at 5:12 pm,
I think it’s a great big lie, that the Almighty will not and by extension cannot tolerate imperfection in his humans.
As a father and a grandfather, so long as my progeny are doing the best they can with what they have, I’m happy.
Perfection not required.
Muff,
There is more than a little truth to that.
It would be easier (maybe) if there was a hard list of rules on how to act, but that doesn’t see to be what Jesus was aiming for. He always seemed to deflect from the stone tablet, and towards the human heart. There are million ways one could interpret “Love your neighbor as yourself”, and that may be maddening to some who need a How-To Act list, but its what he said, and I think he intended for us to try and follow that above all else.
Josh,
You are killing it lately….meaning I guess, that I agree with your observations.
The entire Jesus ethos is centered in sacrificial love…which people are for as long as it doesn’t raise their taxes…or make them care about people they don’t want to care about…
Josh,
I think Paul would agree with your assessment:
“I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.” (Romans 12:1-2 ESV)
Putting into practice the love of neighbor seems to involve the renewal of the mind for discernment of God’s will in various situations.
I do think Paul would agree, though he probably struggled mightily as we all do. Strange, his writings are usually ground zero for the creation of new law.
I would guess that discerning God’s will in particular situations is going to look “subjective”. No once size fits all rubber stamp.
“You are afraid of the text.” He paused. “You are afraid of what the Bible says.” Again, a pause. “You are afraid of the what the Bible says because you are afraid of what the Bible will ask you to do.” A third pause, this time uncomfortably longer. “I know you are afraid of the Bible because of how much time you spend introducing the text you are going to preach, softening it, explaining it away, deferring to its context and, then, all the time you spend trying to illustrate the text.”
The group of 200 or so pastors, mainly Baptists, a group who prided themselves on being a people of the Book, were stunned. The air became thick. People squirmed on the benches, even though they were covered with padding. “You are afraid to read out the Bible, let the words stand and resonate, impeach and press.” That was Walter Brueggemann. A prophet, with a prophetic word, delivered prophetically.’
https://scotmcknight.substack.com/p/walter-brueggemann
That is such a great piece of writing by McKnight. Brueggemann was sometimes a guest lecturer where I went for undergrad. To my shame, I never attended.
Josh,
I saw him at the Justice Conference many moons ago…and he changed the way I thought about a whole bunch of things…he was old then, but a freaking force of nature.
I am becoming a big Bart Ehrman fan. Though he is not a believer, I think he is often misrepresented as an enemy of the church. His falling away was due to the Problem of Evil, not his scholarship. His scholarship is, of course, top notch. He is honest in his findings, as far as I can tell, and doesn’t seek to undermine faith, just to accurately represent things the way they are.
I subscribe to Ehrmans site.
He gives me things to think about and challenges my assumptions.
I respect his voice , even when I differ with him.