When the video is displayed instead of a link, it keeps me from reading on my phone. Anyone else have this problem? Reuben, can you make the video just a link?
Well, if Rick appears as a minister of the gospel he will exercise a stewardship of the gospel and to address or correct Oprah’s heretical christian views in the pseudo gospel she promotes.
If he appears as a celebrity, he will pass it off as a bridge building exercise.
Maybe he will try to be both, achieve neither objective and get shot at by everybody! LOL
But Rick is not involved in any Satanic end days conspiracy.
Had a great day at church today. The adult bible study I lead included 4 retired Lutheran pastors this morning. It’s great to have that much wisdom in one class – and I like having folks older than me. 😉
i listened to a John McArthur sermon this morning in which he essentially says (and he’s right) that a Christian cannot support the Democratic platform … trouble is, by default, he is endorsing the Republicans and they’re leading us on a compromising downward spiral that in many ways is more insidious and troubling to me … just sayin – cuz nothing is going on here … or at my house either, today 🙂
Reuben, Tracy is a good guy – I loved him when he managed the Dodgers. The Rockies need to get some pitching (who doesn’t) – but they also had a bunch of injured guys… which shows they are sissies. 😉
Our church this afternoon held our first annual (we hope annual) blessing of the animals for the neighborhood. Many folks turned out who do not usually set foot on our property on a Sunday.
A great experience for all as we showed our neighbors that God is concerned for all of his creation.
hmmm … politics is not really a Christian’s home turf, is it? of the three choices offered by Xenia, i guess if you don’t pick #1 or #2 that leaves #3 or another revolution and those have historically not worked out … I, ahem, prefer to think of ours as the war for Independence, NOT a revolution 🙄
and if i say one more political word on Michael’s blog-site, ban me
But when you choose #2, and I am assuming you are not just writing in Mickey Mouse, – are you sure their platform is not also corrupt? or have you checked out their religious beliefs?
Would #2 have enough depth to be President? Did I see on the ballot Roseanne Barr and Cindy – I forget her name, but she is the antiwar protester. Are these viable #2s that you are speaking of?
I truly believe that if the Libertarian Party, Constitutionalists, or the Green Party were as well understood as the Conservatives or Democrats, there would be a dramatic change in the political culture of our nation. The more lost votes to candidates who actually represent peoples real desires for government, the better.
I am not interested in discussing the idea of throwing my vote away by doing such a thing. If people are voting for a lesser evil, they are still voting for evil, and that is not justifiable regardless of the circumstances.
I think I’ll write in Michael Newnham. I told my church today that God is neither democrat or republican, but Jesus road into Jerusalem on a donkey, not an elephant. Some people laughed, a few clearly were not amused.
Reuben
I fully understand, but my question remains – have these 3rd party guys been vetted? How do we know that they are not just one more name on the ballot that also represents evil?
And to be clear, I don’t think neither Obama nor Romney are evil or represent evil. I think they are both fine upstanding Americans who have put them selves in the arena – something not many people do.
If this is what you contend, that they not properly vetted, and are just another evil, you understand none of the above stated parties.
Ralph Nader has been vetted above and beyond any candidate from any political system in history, because he has run for president of this nation more times than anyone else in history, and was a popular write in before that.
In principle, more “conservatives” and “liberals” would agree with the long standing statements of Libertarians than ether party they have voted for. But how many people know who or what a Libertarian is?
Stick 5 Libertarian candidates in the running next election cycle, vetting them equally with the two party norms, giving them the same media and money, and I guarantee you, a Libertarian would take more than 50% of the vote, winning in what would be a landslide victory.
The problem is not vetting. The problem is nobody knows.
Nader was a one string candidate – what was his foreign policy?
How can a Christian vote for a libertarian? A true libertarian thinks it is immoral to spend public funds to take care of the poor. If a Libertarian did allocate funds to take care of the poor, it would just be so he didn’t have to step over homeless people in the street.
Man, I used to do Peace & Freedom back in the day – fun! but foolish on my part.
MLD, not interested in arguing the finer points of any of the above mentioned parties. My point is, few know of them, and that is why few vote for them.
(But it is a wee bit comical that your concept of a Libertarian is about 40-50 years old.) 😉
We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution.
Retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. Libertarians would phase out the current government-sponsored Social Security system and transition to a private voluntary system. The proper and most effective source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals. We believe members of society will become more charitable and civil society will be strengthened as government reduces its activity in this realm.
—————————
The above is from the Libertarian party platform adopted May 2012. Just two of many of the planks of the Libertarian platform that just about anyone here would shout against. I could include abortion on demand, promotion of homosexual marriage, and the total removal of government in the healthcare system to a 100% freemarket system, not to mention removing from government any legal role in the area of contract law (which would be a return to the days of the legal fleecing of the elderly with which so many laws that I have to abide by were put into place over the years to stop.)
Only the salesman’s personal morality would hold him back…what could possibly go wrong in a nation of sinners?
But since I ‘hang’ with plenty of libertarians on the political sites I frequent, I think the fairest example of most (not all) of the modern day libertarians basically begins and ends with legalizing all drugs. Oh yeah, and audit the Federal Reserve.
Few libertarians even know what they are supposed to believe….
So what you are saying, AV, MLD, is that Green, Libertarian, and Constitution should not run because they are invalid to you? People would vote for these parties if people knew who they were.
Reuben,
You miss the point – and I made it early. It’s OK to be disgusted with the 2 party system and call them evil etc – but don’t assume that more parties aren’t just more of the same… only a different coalition of special interests.
And who has never heard of the Green, Independent, Libertarian or Peace and Freedom parties?
But, I am sure Jay Leno could do a Jay Walk and find a dozen people to interview who don’t know what a Democrat or a Republican is.
And everyone knows what the Constitution Party is – Sara Palin and her husband when they wanted Alaska to leave the US and become it’s own country again.
Because of the entrenched two-party system no third party has a chance. I am not a fan of the Libertarians, Greens, etc but I wish they could participate in debates, for example, so we could see some fresh ideas. If third parties actually had a chance in this country there might one day arise a candidate I could actually vote for. Since we live in an oligarchy- rule by the wealthy- this will never happen unless people decide they’ve had enough and vote for someone they actually like. Instead we Christians are always cajoled into voting for whatever mediocrity the Republicans toss out by arguments that appeal to pragmatics instead of the heart or the spirit. This could change if we refuse to be cajoled and voted for the candidate we really want. It’s up to us.
All you Romney supporters- google Sheldon Adelson and tell me how a Christian can support any candidate he backs.
All you Romney supporters- google Sheldon Adelson and tell me how a Christian can support any candidate he backs.
———————————
That’s ODM mentality – politics-style.
Google George Soros and the same standard would apply.
AV has an interesting way of spinning information when it comes to politics. Precisely the reason why I wont go there with him.
Libertarians would slow foreign aid and divert funds to national aid. They would pull everyone in the military out of other countries. They would end the intervention of the US into every foreign conflict. They would return states their power (enter drug boogie man). They would drastically reduce the Federal government, and Federal regulations. Some estimates upwards of 2/3 of the total budget. Talk about potential drop kick economic recovery?
I can see hundreds of thousands of votes being lost to Libertarians, from both sides of the fence. You know how many times a week I hear someone say that they wish America would get the hell out of the rest of the world? On that point alone, piles of votes.
But really, they don’t even know what they believe, they are just about legalizing drugs…
Horse poop, AV, and that is an entirely disingenuous way of writing off a political party. Don’t know who you spend your days debating, don’t care either, but that is not a fair characterization by a damn sight.
There are way too many people out there who have no idea who to vote for. They have a list of things that they view as important to them. They don’t see either party answering their concerns. They like something one guy has to say, but hate what he says next. Same holds true for the opposition, so they plug their nose, close their eyes, and fill a dot, or punch a hole.
So I look at those folks, and say that there are other parties out there. Most folks had no idea. Nader crossed the radar once, but people told them that a vote for him would be a vote for the bad guy.
Folks who have defended Conservatives or Liberals for most of their life, and do so with an ounce of knowledge, are going to pull cards to immediately discredit third parties. It is a matter of pride. So the nation beats its own hard working and flat broke neighbors for desiring something else.
I have been lectured by more conservative christians in the last few weeks about how voting for a third party is throwing my vote away. I have heard the argument come from so many angles, I had to think about how one could make such connections. Most of these folks have no idea who I would vote for anyway, but immediately assume it is that drug head… So I will be the retard on election day, and throw my vote away with gladness, because the bottom line is this. I will vote my conscious. I will do so because the two party system, in my opinion, has to lose votes, and those votes have to screw things up for everyone, before it is acknowledged nationally that other voices need to be heard. The nation is not limited to Bill O’Reilly and John Stewart, and even at that, those guys don’t even agree with their parties on numerous points.
Its time to move on.
I am not going to even read the point by point rebuttal, and why Libertarians are idiots, because it missed the point by a few continents.
If we are ever going to put an end to two-party system we are all going to have to take the courageous step of “throwing our vote away.” If year after year people “throw their votes away” eventually enough votes will be siphoned from the Repubs and Dems and the lock these two parties have on our country could be finally broken.
And regarding the “virtue” of choosing the lesser of two evils… How evil will the choices have to become before some people will throw in the towel and say “enough!” I think we are there now; evidently not. This year we have a Mormon vs a Socialist. Not evil enough for you? Maybe in four years the two parties will nominate a Scientologist and a Marxist. Still not evil enough for you? Maybe four years after that we’ll get a Wiccan and a Nazi!
Xenia, – honestly, do you really think that Obama and Romney are evil people? On what grounds – that they disagree with you?
Evil is a pretty definite term – we describe Hitler as evil, so…
So are we really choosing between evil and evil?
As I said this morning to Reuben, I think that we are dealing with 2 honorable men who have different points of view – but geez, they are in the arena and we just sit behind our computers.
From Teddy Roosevelt;
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
MLD, no, I don’t think they are evil people, not any more evil than anyone else. What they represent and promote is evil. The following things are evil: abortion, homosexuality, Mormonism.
This are big things and they matter to me.
People might say, “Well, everyone’s a sinner, no one’s perfect.” Very true. But there are degrees, at least for me, of what is acceptable and what is beyond the pale. If I was vetting potential husbands for my daughter, I would have to confess that everyone’s a sinner and I will not find a perfect son-in-law. But I would not give my Ok to an abortionist, a homosexual, or a Mormon.
Xenia – all I can say is YIKES!!! that is scary.
So, do you vet everyone you do business with and cut them off if they are any of the 3? Is there anyone in that group that you would not hire if you had a business? (abortionist does not describe Obama and he actually has no say in the matter as we saw with Reagan and both Bushes.) but if you knew that someone selling veggies and fruits at your favorite Farmer’s Market were pro abortion you would not buy their stuff?
MLD, voting for the lesser evil is a long standing saying that stated, “I don;t agree with either, but I will vote for the one who has a point or two on the other.”
To whatever extreme you want to take that, cool. I am not a politician because I am an HVAC guy. So if the argument is, “Shut up because you aint running for president…” I have another “Yikes” to proclaim.
IMHO – if either of these guys fit a Teddy Roosevelt creed, they couldn’t even get on a major party’s ticket – IMHO
there’s a difference as to what motivates your blood, sweat and tears – not all such effort is virtuous
Yay for the scary Xenia’s – may her tribe increase
also, i don’t think it matters one whit what the common man in the street votes for – decisions are made by the big block voters in the large population areas – they school like herring in a bay … now i’m banned by my own choice here
And, China’s pro-abortion policy is one of many good reasons to avoid products from China if at all possible so in a sense I do avoid buying “fruits and veggies, etc.” from pro-abortion China.
I really don’t care who votes for who or who doesn’t vote. Anyone can choose any reason they want to exclude people – not even an issue with me. But when we call people evil, for positions they hold – well that goes a little far – and it also dampens the word evil, for it’s real adherents.
Mormonism or exterminating Jews = evil
Well you had better go up to where I answered your question about people being evil, MLD because I answered that they themselves were not evil but they represented many evils.
You don’t think Mormonism is evil? It is a lie from Satan and it leads many to destruction. How can you think it’s not evil? Abortion is obviously a great evil. Homosexuality is evil. Would you prefer I use the word “wicked?” Maybe the less dramatic “bad?” No, I will stick will “evil.”
Mormons who grew up in their church and know no better- these people are clearly not evil. Those who know it’s a lie and promote it anyway, yes, I can hear the hissing of the serpent.
Silly men who are in love with each other? Not evil people. Sinful, yes. Those who actively promote the “gay agenda,” who are trying to force their views upon us all, who try to get themselves ordained, who parade half-naked on Gay Pride Day and other things I will not mention? I smell sulfur.
Scared young woman cajoled into having an abortion by her boyfriend? A sinner for sure. The abortion mill owner? I smell sulfur.
Xenia,
I still don’t understand why you refuse to call those who participate and promote evil to be evil themselves.Aren’t all non Christians religions just as evil as Mormonism? Do you tell your non Christian friends they are associating with evil and it is making them evil?
Ok, let’s try this. (I hate to drag out the Nazis but you drove me to it!) 🙂
Can we agree that Nazism was evil? That the leaders of Nazi Germany were evil people?
Could you agree that Wehrmacht represented the Third Reich and therefore represented evil?
Could you say that every soldier in the Wehrmacht was an evil person? <— I could not. Many joined the army in ignorance, many joined out of sincere but misplaced patriotism and many were drafted. Yet they served in an organization that promoted evil.
an “ism” is not evil. Nazism could have been neutral if PEOPLE did not act on it. Nazism was created by people – People are not created by any “ism”
What is Mormonism if not people?
You are probably using a broad biblical definition of evil – anything outside of the will of God (but remember that brings us to almost everyone in the world of all time) – where I am using it in a more non religious sense of those who cause harm.
An evil idea concocted by Satan to destroy humans. It sits like a piece of cheese in a trap baited by the Evil One and it doesn't matter if no one takes a nibble- it's still evil.
It’s all yours today…
http://youtu.be/nY7GnAq6Znw
🙂 amazing -and enjoyable, Reuben …
i just came off of this – seems to be an uncommon, common man theme in my world this morning – the Lord must have something to tell me …
http://www.lamonluther.com/pages/our-history
When the video is displayed instead of a link, it keeps me from reading on my phone. Anyone else have this problem? Reuben, can you make the video just a link?
Music is up for the week with several new songs. Drop by if you’re so inclined. Happy Saturday to all!!
http://morethancoping.wordpress.com/2012/10/05/praise-worship-october-5th-2012/
Nope. Its just you and your Lutheran phone… 😛
Rick Warren is filming a couple episodes with Oprah.
This will keep ODMs up at night.
Well, if Rick appears as a minister of the gospel he will exercise a stewardship of the gospel and to address or correct Oprah’s heretical christian views in the pseudo gospel she promotes.
If he appears as a celebrity, he will pass it off as a bridge building exercise.
Maybe he will try to be both, achieve neither objective and get shot at by everybody! LOL
But Rick is not involved in any Satanic end days conspiracy.
Had a great day at church today. The adult bible study I lead included 4 retired Lutheran pastors this morning. It’s great to have that much wisdom in one class – and I like having folks older than me. 😉
Jim Tracy resigned as coach of CR today. I blame Dan O’Dowd for everything wrong in the world.
In other news, the Broncos are imploding right now.
I blame O’Dowd for that too.
i listened to a John McArthur sermon this morning in which he essentially says (and he’s right) that a Christian cannot support the Democratic platform … trouble is, by default, he is endorsing the Republicans and they’re leading us on a compromising downward spiral that in many ways is more insidious and troubling to me … just sayin – cuz nothing is going on here … or at my house either, today 🙂
Reuben, Tracy is a good guy – I loved him when he managed the Dodgers. The Rockies need to get some pitching (who doesn’t) – but they also had a bunch of injured guys… which shows they are sissies. 😉
A Christian cannot support some planks in the Demoocratic platform.
Likewise, a Christian cannot support some planks in the Republican platform.
Our choices?
1. Pick the less of two evils.
2. Write in somebody
3. Abandon the whole system as hopelessly corrupt.
I am choosing #2 this year.
Our church this afternoon held our first annual (we hope annual) blessing of the animals for the neighborhood. Many folks turned out who do not usually set foot on our property on a Sunday.
A great experience for all as we showed our neighbors that God is concerned for all of his creation.
MLD, if our parish did that I would need a Uhaul to bring all my animals for their blessing.
But we have yearly house blessings. The priest comes to our houses and blesses everyone and everything.
I’m glad to hear your church did this, MLD. It’s a good thing.
Xenia and I agree one something yet again. I am choosing #2.
hmmm … politics is not really a Christian’s home turf, is it? of the three choices offered by Xenia, i guess if you don’t pick #1 or #2 that leaves #3 or another revolution and those have historically not worked out … I, ahem, prefer to think of ours as the war for Independence, NOT a revolution 🙄
and if i say one more political word on Michael’s blog-site, ban me
But when you choose #2, and I am assuming you are not just writing in Mickey Mouse, – are you sure their platform is not also corrupt? or have you checked out their religious beliefs?
Would #2 have enough depth to be President? Did I see on the ballot Roseanne Barr and Cindy – I forget her name, but she is the antiwar protester. Are these viable #2s that you are speaking of?
MLD, serious answer here.
I truly believe that if the Libertarian Party, Constitutionalists, or the Green Party were as well understood as the Conservatives or Democrats, there would be a dramatic change in the political culture of our nation. The more lost votes to candidates who actually represent peoples real desires for government, the better.
I am not interested in discussing the idea of throwing my vote away by doing such a thing. If people are voting for a lesser evil, they are still voting for evil, and that is not justifiable regardless of the circumstances.
IMHO.
I think I’ll write in Michael Newnham. I told my church today that God is neither democrat or republican, but Jesus road into Jerusalem on a donkey, not an elephant. Some people laughed, a few clearly were not amused.
Reuben
I fully understand, but my question remains – have these 3rd party guys been vetted? How do we know that they are not just one more name on the ballot that also represents evil?
And to be clear, I don’t think neither Obama nor Romney are evil or represent evil. I think they are both fine upstanding Americans who have put them selves in the arena – something not many people do.
The most honorable man I know is my husband and I’d write him in if he qualified but he was born in Mexico.
MLD,
If this is what you contend, that they not properly vetted, and are just another evil, you understand none of the above stated parties.
Ralph Nader has been vetted above and beyond any candidate from any political system in history, because he has run for president of this nation more times than anyone else in history, and was a popular write in before that.
In principle, more “conservatives” and “liberals” would agree with the long standing statements of Libertarians than ether party they have voted for. But how many people know who or what a Libertarian is?
Stick 5 Libertarian candidates in the running next election cycle, vetting them equally with the two party norms, giving them the same media and money, and I guarantee you, a Libertarian would take more than 50% of the vote, winning in what would be a landslide victory.
The problem is not vetting. The problem is nobody knows.
Nader was a one string candidate – what was his foreign policy?
How can a Christian vote for a libertarian? A true libertarian thinks it is immoral to spend public funds to take care of the poor. If a Libertarian did allocate funds to take care of the poor, it would just be so he didn’t have to step over homeless people in the street.
Man, I used to do Peace & Freedom back in the day – fun! but foolish on my part.
Xenia,
Is “honorable” enough to qualify as a president?
We are just a dissatisfied bunch, as have been Americans always – look, Lincoln only got 40% of the popular vote – and he was a pretty cool dude.
MLD, not interested in arguing the finer points of any of the above mentioned parties. My point is, few know of them, and that is why few vote for them.
(But it is a wee bit comical that your concept of a Libertarian is about 40-50 years old.) 😉
who the hell is John McArthur to say who can and can not be a Christian anyway? Last I checked, he doesn’t get a vote on that!
Idiotic statement he made…
We call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution.
Retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. Libertarians would phase out the current government-sponsored Social Security system and transition to a private voluntary system. The proper and most effective source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals. We believe members of society will become more charitable and civil society will be strengthened as government reduces its activity in this realm.
—————————
The above is from the Libertarian party platform adopted May 2012. Just two of many of the planks of the Libertarian platform that just about anyone here would shout against. I could include abortion on demand, promotion of homosexual marriage, and the total removal of government in the healthcare system to a 100% freemarket system, not to mention removing from government any legal role in the area of contract law (which would be a return to the days of the legal fleecing of the elderly with which so many laws that I have to abide by were put into place over the years to stop.)
Only the salesman’s personal morality would hold him back…what could possibly go wrong in a nation of sinners?
But since I ‘hang’ with plenty of libertarians on the political sites I frequent, I think the fairest example of most (not all) of the modern day libertarians basically begins and ends with legalizing all drugs. Oh yeah, and audit the Federal Reserve.
Few libertarians even know what they are supposed to believe….
I got the message I will contact them on monday thanks.
So what you are saying, AV, MLD, is that Green, Libertarian, and Constitution should not run because they are invalid to you? People would vote for these parties if people knew who they were.
Reuben,
You miss the point – and I made it early. It’s OK to be disgusted with the 2 party system and call them evil etc – but don’t assume that more parties aren’t just more of the same… only a different coalition of special interests.
And who has never heard of the Green, Independent, Libertarian or Peace and Freedom parties?
But, I am sure Jay Leno could do a Jay Walk and find a dozen people to interview who don’t know what a Democrat or a Republican is.
And everyone knows what the Constitution Party is – Sara Palin and her husband when they wanted Alaska to leave the US and become it’s own country again.
The Green Party cost Al Gore the election in 2000 – so at least some people know who they are….
Because of the entrenched two-party system no third party has a chance. I am not a fan of the Libertarians, Greens, etc but I wish they could participate in debates, for example, so we could see some fresh ideas. If third parties actually had a chance in this country there might one day arise a candidate I could actually vote for. Since we live in an oligarchy- rule by the wealthy- this will never happen unless people decide they’ve had enough and vote for someone they actually like. Instead we Christians are always cajoled into voting for whatever mediocrity the Republicans toss out by arguments that appeal to pragmatics instead of the heart or the spirit. This could change if we refuse to be cajoled and voted for the candidate we really want. It’s up to us.
All you Romney supporters- google Sheldon Adelson and tell me how a Christian can support any candidate he backs.
All you Romney supporters- google Sheldon Adelson and tell me how a Christian can support any candidate he backs.
———————————
That’s ODM mentality – politics-style.
Google George Soros and the same standard would apply.
So vote for neither of them.
ODM mentality? Are you serious?
AV has an interesting way of spinning information when it comes to politics. Precisely the reason why I wont go there with him.
Libertarians would slow foreign aid and divert funds to national aid. They would pull everyone in the military out of other countries. They would end the intervention of the US into every foreign conflict. They would return states their power (enter drug boogie man). They would drastically reduce the Federal government, and Federal regulations. Some estimates upwards of 2/3 of the total budget. Talk about potential drop kick economic recovery?
I can see hundreds of thousands of votes being lost to Libertarians, from both sides of the fence. You know how many times a week I hear someone say that they wish America would get the hell out of the rest of the world? On that point alone, piles of votes.
But really, they don’t even know what they believe, they are just about legalizing drugs…
Horse poop, AV, and that is an entirely disingenuous way of writing off a political party. Don’t know who you spend your days debating, don’t care either, but that is not a fair characterization by a damn sight.
There are way too many people out there who have no idea who to vote for. They have a list of things that they view as important to them. They don’t see either party answering their concerns. They like something one guy has to say, but hate what he says next. Same holds true for the opposition, so they plug their nose, close their eyes, and fill a dot, or punch a hole.
So I look at those folks, and say that there are other parties out there. Most folks had no idea. Nader crossed the radar once, but people told them that a vote for him would be a vote for the bad guy.
Folks who have defended Conservatives or Liberals for most of their life, and do so with an ounce of knowledge, are going to pull cards to immediately discredit third parties. It is a matter of pride. So the nation beats its own hard working and flat broke neighbors for desiring something else.
I have been lectured by more conservative christians in the last few weeks about how voting for a third party is throwing my vote away. I have heard the argument come from so many angles, I had to think about how one could make such connections. Most of these folks have no idea who I would vote for anyway, but immediately assume it is that drug head… So I will be the retard on election day, and throw my vote away with gladness, because the bottom line is this. I will vote my conscious. I will do so because the two party system, in my opinion, has to lose votes, and those votes have to screw things up for everyone, before it is acknowledged nationally that other voices need to be heard. The nation is not limited to Bill O’Reilly and John Stewart, and even at that, those guys don’t even agree with their parties on numerous points.
Its time to move on.
I am not going to even read the point by point rebuttal, and why Libertarians are idiots, because it missed the point by a few continents.
Good post, Reuben. A great one.
If we are ever going to put an end to two-party system we are all going to have to take the courageous step of “throwing our vote away.” If year after year people “throw their votes away” eventually enough votes will be siphoned from the Repubs and Dems and the lock these two parties have on our country could be finally broken.
And regarding the “virtue” of choosing the lesser of two evils… How evil will the choices have to become before some people will throw in the towel and say “enough!” I think we are there now; evidently not. This year we have a Mormon vs a Socialist. Not evil enough for you? Maybe in four years the two parties will nominate a Scientologist and a Marxist. Still not evil enough for you? Maybe four years after that we’ll get a Wiccan and a Nazi!
Xenia, – honestly, do you really think that Obama and Romney are evil people? On what grounds – that they disagree with you?
Evil is a pretty definite term – we describe Hitler as evil, so…
So are we really choosing between evil and evil?
As I said this morning to Reuben, I think that we are dealing with 2 honorable men who have different points of view – but geez, they are in the arena and we just sit behind our computers.
From Teddy Roosevelt;
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
This is who Obama and Romney are.
MLD, no, I don’t think they are evil people, not any more evil than anyone else. What they represent and promote is evil. The following things are evil: abortion, homosexuality, Mormonism.
This are big things and they matter to me.
People might say, “Well, everyone’s a sinner, no one’s perfect.” Very true. But there are degrees, at least for me, of what is acceptable and what is beyond the pale. If I was vetting potential husbands for my daughter, I would have to confess that everyone’s a sinner and I will not find a perfect son-in-law. But I would not give my Ok to an abortionist, a homosexual, or a Mormon.
Xenia – all I can say is YIKES!!! that is scary.
So, do you vet everyone you do business with and cut them off if they are any of the 3? Is there anyone in that group that you would not hire if you had a business? (abortionist does not describe Obama and he actually has no say in the matter as we saw with Reagan and both Bushes.) but if you knew that someone selling veggies and fruits at your favorite Farmer’s Market were pro abortion you would not buy their stuff?
Buying veggies from a homosexual: Yes
Electing someone who wants to normalize gay marriage? No.
Etc.
I don’t mind being scary.
MLD, voting for the lesser evil is a long standing saying that stated, “I don;t agree with either, but I will vote for the one who has a point or two on the other.”
To whatever extreme you want to take that, cool. I am not a politician because I am an HVAC guy. So if the argument is, “Shut up because you aint running for president…” I have another “Yikes” to proclaim.
“This is who Obama and Romney are.”
IMHO – if either of these guys fit a Teddy Roosevelt creed, they couldn’t even get on a major party’s ticket – IMHO
there’s a difference as to what motivates your blood, sweat and tears – not all such effort is virtuous
Yay for the scary Xenia’s – may her tribe increase
also, i don’t think it matters one whit what the common man in the street votes for – decisions are made by the big block voters in the large population areas – they school like herring in a bay … now i’m banned by my own choice here
And, China’s pro-abortion policy is one of many good reasons to avoid products from China if at all possible so in a sense I do avoid buying “fruits and veggies, etc.” from pro-abortion China.
there’s a difference as to what motivates your blood, sweat and tears – not all such effort is virtuous<<<
Em is so right. Like ambition, narcissism and lust for power.
And yet we cringe at what we perceive as anti christian voting blocks.
It’s funny – only a Christian would say that Mormonism is evil. Anyone else may say “who cares” or “they are whacky.”
It’s funny – only a Christian would say that Mormonism is evil.<<<
Why is it funny? Of course Mormonism is evil. It is a false religion and it's adherents will go to hell. Is that funny?
Yes, look at those wacky Mormons, on their way to hell. Let's all have a good laugh.
I don’t know, I haven’t heard you call Judaism evil and it fits the bill to a “T”
So, if a Jew were a candidate, you would say he was evil because he promotes Judaism?
I really don’t care who votes for who or who doesn’t vote. Anyone can choose any reason they want to exclude people – not even an issue with me. But when we call people evil, for positions they hold – well that goes a little far – and it also dampens the word evil, for it’s real adherents.
Mormonism or exterminating Jews = evil
I would like to have a President who prays to the Trinitarian God so he can receive guidance from above. <—– That's what it boils down to for me.
That's the only kind of candidate I will vote for.
Well you had better go up to where I answered your question about people being evil, MLD because I answered that they themselves were not evil but they represented many evils.
“What they represent and promote is evil.”
I will just drop it at this. I don’t see how you separate people who represent and promote evil as not evil?
You don’t think Mormonism is evil? It is a lie from Satan and it leads many to destruction. How can you think it’s not evil? Abortion is obviously a great evil. Homosexuality is evil. Would you prefer I use the word “wicked?” Maybe the less dramatic “bad?” No, I will stick will “evil.”
Mormons who grew up in their church and know no better- these people are clearly not evil. Those who know it’s a lie and promote it anyway, yes, I can hear the hissing of the serpent.
Silly men who are in love with each other? Not evil people. Sinful, yes. Those who actively promote the “gay agenda,” who are trying to force their views upon us all, who try to get themselves ordained, who parade half-naked on Gay Pride Day and other things I will not mention? I smell sulfur.
Scared young woman cajoled into having an abortion by her boyfriend? A sinner for sure. The abortion mill owner? I smell sulfur.
Xenia,
I still don’t understand why you refuse to call those who participate and promote evil to be evil themselves.Aren’t all non Christians religions just as evil as Mormonism? Do you tell your non Christian friends they are associating with evil and it is making them evil?
Perhaps you are too politically correct.:-)
Ok, let’s try this. (I hate to drag out the Nazis but you drove me to it!) 🙂
Can we agree that Nazism was evil? That the leaders of Nazi Germany were evil people?
Could you agree that Wehrmacht represented the Third Reich and therefore represented evil?
Could you say that every soldier in the Wehrmacht was an evil person? <— I could not. Many joined the army in ignorance, many joined out of sincere but misplaced patriotism and many were drafted. Yet they served in an organization that promoted evil.
an “ism” is not evil. Nazism could have been neutral if PEOPLE did not act on it. Nazism was created by people – People are not created by any “ism”
What is Mormonism if not people?
You are probably using a broad biblical definition of evil – anything outside of the will of God (but remember that brings us to almost everyone in the world of all time) – where I am using it in a more non religious sense of those who cause harm.
What is Mormonism if not people?<<<
An evil idea concocted by Satan to destroy humans. It sits like a piece of cheese in a trap baited by the Evil One and it doesn't matter if no one takes a nibble- it's still evil.