Michael, has anyone from CC made any sort of public comment or statement regarding Bob Coy? Laurie, Courson, anyone? It seems CC is strangely silent in all this. Evangelicalism overall, actually. I did see James MacDonald (I know, your favorite… š ) tweet a photo of him saying something to the effect of, “Are you talking about him or praying for him?” I thought that was kinda cool for JM to do. But it seems odd to me that I’ve seen no one in CC speak to this at all
Greg Laurie and Brodersen have discussed it on the radio and there have been some blog articles and Facebook notes from individual CC’s.
I haven’t seen an “official” proclamation from the CCA.
What I’m hearing is that the dirt runs so deep that everyone wants to get as far away from the mess as they can.
My dad had an affair. He experienced the same thing. He’s nowhere to be found today. Haven’t spoken to him in years. He doesn’t return any of our calls. I wonder at times how different things might have been if he had had true community before the affair as opposed to fake religiosity, and if humble men who were concerned for him had come around him afterwards, instead of men bend on either distancing themselves or punishing him.
When you get to Coy’s level of celebrity the priorities are so radically different that it makes these situations almost impossible to resolve .
I do know that some have spoken with him privately, but my guess is that those conversations will become less frequent.
Don’t stop trying, Jeff…
Hi Michael,
I’ve enjoyed reading your articles this week regarding Bob Coy. Having been to his church many, many times, I was in utter shock when I heard the news Monday morning. He was one of the last pastors I would have ever thought to do something of this nature. My question to you (as I have not seen it on your website) is are you a local south Florida man/pastor or are you from phoenix? Did you go to CCFL?
As many others have stated, I feel Coy owes his former congregation some answers as to how long this went on, how many women, etc…. If it happened once or twice I would be much more forgiving, but if this was ongoing then it is despicable. A man that professed God’s love week after week having a dark side just really upsets me. CCFL I believe the next head pastor you appoint better have some accountability– which I believe was severely lacking with Coy.
#7 Joanna, I attended CCFtL for two years. I don’t care to know the sordid details of his indiscretions where. I dont feel I need an apology or explanation. Why is this relevant and necessary? Does it matter if it was 1 or 15 women? Is this Biblical? I think the people who demand an explanation/apology are the ones that had an “imaginary” relationship with Bob and for the record, I met him a couple of times (he actually sat at my dinner table at the Grill once) and don’t feel otherwise entitled to this. If he just rode into the sunset, I would be perfectly ok with this personally.
I finally finished my taxes, so I’ve got a few minutes before I go out, make copies and mail them.
Charisma News is reporting that the CCFL website has removed all mention of Bob Coy. That seems rather drastic; even the Institute in Basic Life Principles kept Bill Gothard’s name on their website despite his resignation and the circumstances thereof.
I think there are differences in sin though they all disqualify a pastor. The details are important when it comes to restoration and the process. not restoration to the pulpit but restoration to fellowship
Is there a difference between a man who fails his marriage vows by confiding in another woman during tough marital times, proceeds to build on that second relationship and ends up in adultery with her alone and a serial adulterer like Tiger woods having onenight stands with p*rn stars. Both disqualify but both are not equal.
With pastors was the adultery with another parisihioner or many or was he going out of town looking for easy sex with strangers who did not know him as a pastor
Details is relative. Some details are certainly not necessary but full repentance it seems means full disclosure of where the man sinned and a fully repentant man does not continue to protect his reputation with unclear words. This is not meant to be cruel but to say that true healing is only possible with full disclosure
Music is up for the week. I’ve included three oldies from Maranatha music and a cool song titled Lawdy by the Vespers. Other nice ones as well so drop on by!
“I think there are differences in sin though they all disqualify a pastor.”
I don’t think so. Pastors sin everyday – is the expectation that your pastor be Jesus perfect?
I watch my pastor down on his knees each week confessing his sins.
Just think, if your pastor didn’t sin he wouldn’t need Jesus.
Went to work today for 5 hours. Came home and the ground was dry enough to till the garden plot. I feel it was a very productive day.
Vegetables planned for the garden: Bell Peppers, Red Peppers, Banana Peppers, Lima Beans, Pole Beans, Zucchini, Yellow Squash, Cucumbers, Corn, Okra, Cantaloupe and Tomatoes.
Really excited about having a garden. Been quite a few years.
LOL: Tomatoes helps prevent prostrate cancer and strawberries are high in PEA.
.
PEA is 300 times stronger than cocaine—-but then again when eating strawberries, you have to eat a lot of them But when caught up in limerence, it can be extremely addicting and inhibit one from sticking it out to then transition into that which would then illicit the opiods chemicals that are then seeded and developed in a relationship that is long term and realistic.
Gary, love your humor, as always. Silly, is good for us all, even for those like myself who tend to be a bit of a nerd.
Finished our first 8 hours of “Bee School” this week. Astonishing creatures. Wondrous God.
About the type of sin that disqualifies someone from ministry….IMO, the ‘worst’ sin, is that of unwillingness to admit one’s sinfulness. To diminish or down play the grievousness of any sin shows a lack of true humility and fear of the Lord. “Bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance” said John, the Baptist. On going change, on going humility and gratefulness for God’s mercy are the attributes that are evidence of the needed changes of heart. IMO
Dusty, To bee or not to bee. That is the question of the hour….. We are leaning towards ‘yet’….. we’ll see. Many of the instructors at the classes this week are devout Lutherans, Missouri Synod, of course. We may go visit their church tomorrow.
10 large raised beds here. Soil turned over. Garlic, onions, beets, strawberries and blueberries in so far. Lots more planned. We joined a local subscription farm this year, so will adjust our garden accordingly. Want to pickle lots of cukes and beets this year…
Visited the farm store today to pick up supplies for organic fly and yellow jacket management…. Out with some insects…and possibly IN with $300 worth of bees and their new accommodations. Stay tuned.
There’s a movie coming out within a week or so titled “Heaven Is For Real.” At a church we attended for a time they had a night where we watched a video about the movie and the place was packed out. The thing is the book is filled with all sorts of contradictions to the Bible and people weren’t seeing it.
It seems a movie like this could be more dangerous than “Noah” as it really depicts Heaven in a very distorted way and could lead to people buying into some dangerous stuff.
My point being is I haven’t heard a peep from the Christian community about this film…
I think as the Coy thing is further examined you may find the “pornography problem” may point to sexual addiction which is much bigger than a simple affair. CC has no room for psychology or addiction so it may never be dealt with. If this is the case the idea of restoration to the pulpit with out serious therapy and recovery is out of the question. This could be the CC inmates running the asylum.
Frosted Flake, You’re mistaken about CC and psychology. Some are still hardline but many are now utilizing psychologists and psychiatrists when necessary in helping others. I have been greatly encouraged by this.
Heaven is For Real: I heard the filmmaker Randall Wallace (of Braveheart-Secretariat) talk about this movie at a writing conference. I also saw the whole movie previewed there. Mr. Wallace explained that the movie depicts what actually happened– which is not to be confused with what evangelical Christian audiences wish had happened. They were well aware of the so called “Biblical inconsistencies” Ironically, this is why the father of the boy who “dies and sees heaven” did not jump to tell this story immediately. I can imagine he was not naive about how the church would review it. Sad statement. I thought the movie was well done, and I’m thankful they just told it like it happened and didn’t cave into feeling the need to spruce it up.
Ps40 @ 32, ” the movie depicts what actually happened ā which is not to be confused with what evangelical Christian audiences wish had happened. ….”
if you look at the book the Biblical inconstincies aren’t alleged as they are there in black and white for everyone to see. I guess I’m evangelical and I’m not sure what I wish had happened but there’s many books about people going to Heaven and coming back that contradict one another. Whose version do we believe? Paul saw heaven and didn’t even describe it.
erunner–
Who do we believe? That is a great question: Perhaps that is my real question?
I really have less of a problem with a family telling their story than I do with the term “Biblical” (in the literal sense). I am also having a hard time associating myself with those who are using that term “evangelical” lately. I studied church history and it kinda burst my anthropocentric bubble:( Perhaps my review of this movie may have been a little tinted by my bent evangelical lenses as of late. Albeit, I’m now Wondering what else I have been wrong about, and where my spiritual authority comes from ? It comes from the Spirit–I’m comfortable with that. But my Christian tradition (CC) I am not comfortable with. My Christian culture (Patriarchal and hierarchical) I am no longer comfortable with (severe abuse victim-survivor) . My “interpretation of Scripture”–not where near comfortable! Interpretive pluralism just messes with my head, and I’m tired of thinking I have to be right about all this stuff when, WHO AM I KIDDING– I’ve been a believer for 35 years and I know less information every passing moment. !!! Not that I haven’t tried. (Biblical Studies major).
What I know about God today is relational and experiential and not very far off of the stuff I have read for the last 35 years of devotional/academic reading of Scripture–just more broad in scope and not “evangelical” approved.
I’m ok with that–as long as I’m not labeled and put out to pasture for having honest questions that have risen out of honest pursuit of the heart of God?????
Ps40, We have a bit in common. I put in over 30 years with CC and it ended badly. I’m less dogmatic now than at any time in my life as a believer. I call myself evangelical because it’s really the closest label that describes me although I find myself at odds with much that goes on under that wide tent.
The passion that has been with me from the beginning is to see people come to Christ. In the past that meant plugging them into the closest CC with no consideration for anything else. I deeply regret that now as my other newer passion is for believers to stop being at war exposing one another and so forth. That grieves me deeply.
The Noah movie bugged me a bit based on descriptions as I’ve never seen it but I would classify that as up front in what the folks were trying to say and how they portrayed the story of Noah. Other movies that full on attack our faith don’t have me up in arms as I’ve come to expect it and it’s easy to see them for what they are.
Galatians talks about satan appearing as an angel of light while at the same time corrupting the gospel message. It is that type of attack that concerns me the most as it can subtly snare unsuspecting believers into falling for lies and in turn spreading them.
As I hold to the Bible as God’s word it is my litmus test for coming to personal convictions.
So when I became aware of the book this movie is based on I saw things that didn’t line up with scripture no matter how hard I might have tried.
Maybe I’m over reacting? I’m open to that. What I’m not open to is anything that might give a non believer a false security where no security exists.
So when I saw all of the talk, a lot media generated, concerning Noah I am still surprised nothing is out there concerning this movie that those same critics of Noah would have to disagree with.
Bottom line? I believe much of satan’s work flies under the radar which is perilous to us all.
e-runner,
Perhaps? But I cannot remove this nagging questionā¦.”Perhaps my narrow 21st century evangelical lens is also part of Satan’s attack?” One that is less Christo-centric and one that is more “right-centric”? Again–church history challenged my very small Christian ideology. I simply trust God to read and judge my heart. I also trust the Spirit to teach me every day (even through the Scriptures that I have often misused) I KNOW He will. And I am no longer “afraid” of not measuring up to what I now understand is a small sampling of Christianity’s lens. I am related to those who share my irreducible core of faith [God-with-us-Jesus] throughout Christian history. [very few of my relatives in the faith practice it like me-we all differ in our expression of it] Furthermore–we rarely agree on our doctrines. But I absolutely trust God’s Spirit to judge our approaches to His Scriptures (whether we use them as weapon, manipulative tool, or opportunity to hear God’s heart in the form of a testimony that points to God’s solution to broken humanity (New Covenant) –JESUS! I identify with what Jesus did, and Who He is–and my ancient foe cannot take that from me.
But I really appreciate hearing your opinions:) I’m all about hospitable spaces for differing opinions.That seems more Christ-like in the long run than pretending I’m right. But I have to confessā¦I’m jealous of your confidence–with all sincerity–I am.
Ps40, I can only hope I don’t use God’s word as a weapon or to manipulate anyone. I have my hands full with myself because I know the potential for bad that is within me.
Through the years many big things take place be they good or bad spiritually. Time has always moved on to the next big thing and ultimately I’m left with myself. I want to know God more intimately and I desire for the lost to know Him too. At the same time I want to live after my flesh. The battle never ends. Thanks for sharing with me. Allan
My spouse reminded me that BC used to say that if you saw him with a woman in his car (or golf cart he used to get around the property) don’t assume it’s “another woman”, it could be his niece or a family member
I now wonder about those comments in light of the present situation.
@41
In some respects, Mr. Coy is correct and I think the church gets ridiculous at times over these things. I live in a small town and I have been seen driving around with a pretty young blond woman before. She happens to be my daughter-in-law. These are things that will not become a ball and chain for me. Now that being said, I don’t counsel women without my wife present, and at times, that has ruffled a few feathers. Some of our women “get it” and would rather talk with her than me anyway. If someone needs to have a quick, private conversation with me after the service, we can go into another room, all of which have glass doors. My wife can walk in at any time, as she is usually the one who will do any follow-up ministry with them.
Titus 1:15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.
and…………… I used to drive around in a golf cart too. It was on a ranch that I worked at and we used that cart for many things, such as mending fences and feeding the horses.
Assistant Pastor Romain of CCCM only would talk with woman or men if he were seated in the very middle of the main sanctuary for all to see. It made it possible for him to avoid any misunderstandings by anyone.
“I find myself at odds with much that goes on under that wide tent.” About “evangelicals” and I find many others saying similar things, but what I can’t find or hear is what those things are one is at “odds” with.
I guess I like a more defined idea of what’s wrong. Is it the mega-church rock star pastor stuff like Furtick and Young, the lack of bible knowledge, few sacraments, if any, or is it other things like greasy grace? I’m not going to fight or troll to start one I just wonder why such statements are made and how many jump on these band wagons
I stated… “I put in over 30 years with CC and it ended badly. Iām less dogmatic now than at any time in my life as a believer. I call myself evangelical because itās really the closest label that describes me although I find myself at odds with much that goes on under that wide tent.”
Bob @ 46, “About āevangelicalsā and I find many others saying similar things, but what I canāt find or hear is what those things are one is at āoddsā with.
I guess I like a more defined idea of whatās wrong. Is it the mega-church rock star pastor stuff like Furtick and Young, the lack of bible knowledge, few sacraments, if any, or is it other things like greasy grace? Iām not going to fight or troll to start one I just wonder why such statements are made and how many jump on these band wagons”
I was speaking about a book and issues I had with it and am concerned the movie might place my concerns in a positive light. Since I’ve written this I’ve been to two large Christian websites that are promoting this movie.
If the movie presents contradictions to the Bible then I’m concerned why believers are promoting it. That’s an issue for me. I understand other movies taking artistic license to make “Christian” movies more enjoyable and I can live with that. For all I know this movie may prove me wrong.
I’m tired of rapture movies coming out all the time that present all sorts of whacky ideas as to how those making these movies present the actual event. I’d like to see more thoughtful presentations of the gospel if people choose to continue making faith based movies.
The things described by anonymous if true concerning stuff purportedly taking place at CCFL drive me nuts. You have probably seen them.
I loathe believers attacking other believers over just about anything as evidenced by so many discernment pages. A page a woman shared here dedicated to the evils of John MacArthur is an example.
CC pastors almost mocking denominations because of how they believe and dress.
CC pastors saying you’ll be the most educated out there if you sit under their verse by verse teaching for a year.
The attitude across the board by many towards the mentally ill bothers me greatly.
Auctioning off cars, etc. as a way to attract the lost.
The acceptance of homosexuality as not being sinful.
Slamming believers for the music they listen to and where they spend their money.
Pointing out the dangers of disney movies.
The quick elevation of unqualified men into roles of leadership and teaching. Using me as an example.
The bottom line is the splintering of our faith as all we seem to do is expose one another and demonize people like Rick Warren.
Taking five to ten minutes for communion as it’s rushed in at the end of the service as others are waiting for the next service.
It’s all yours today.
Michael, has anyone from CC made any sort of public comment or statement regarding Bob Coy? Laurie, Courson, anyone? It seems CC is strangely silent in all this. Evangelicalism overall, actually. I did see James MacDonald (I know, your favorite… š ) tweet a photo of him saying something to the effect of, “Are you talking about him or praying for him?” I thought that was kinda cool for JM to do. But it seems odd to me that I’ve seen no one in CC speak to this at all
Jeff,
Greg Laurie and Brodersen have discussed it on the radio and there have been some blog articles and Facebook notes from individual CC’s.
I haven’t seen an “official” proclamation from the CCA.
What I’m hearing is that the dirt runs so deep that everyone wants to get as far away from the mess as they can.
That makes me even more sad…
My dad had an affair. He experienced the same thing. He’s nowhere to be found today. Haven’t spoken to him in years. He doesn’t return any of our calls. I wonder at times how different things might have been if he had had true community before the affair as opposed to fake religiosity, and if humble men who were concerned for him had come around him afterwards, instead of men bend on either distancing themselves or punishing him.
*bent on either distancing…
Jeff,
When you get to Coy’s level of celebrity the priorities are so radically different that it makes these situations almost impossible to resolve .
I do know that some have spoken with him privately, but my guess is that those conversations will become less frequent.
Don’t stop trying, Jeff…
Perhaps if Bob had been approached with the touch of Nathan instead of the spear of Saul he would have handled it differently … who knows?
Hi Michael,
I’ve enjoyed reading your articles this week regarding Bob Coy. Having been to his church many, many times, I was in utter shock when I heard the news Monday morning. He was one of the last pastors I would have ever thought to do something of this nature. My question to you (as I have not seen it on your website) is are you a local south Florida man/pastor or are you from phoenix? Did you go to CCFL?
As many others have stated, I feel Coy owes his former congregation some answers as to how long this went on, how many women, etc…. If it happened once or twice I would be much more forgiving, but if this was ongoing then it is despicable. A man that professed God’s love week after week having a dark side just really upsets me. CCFL I believe the next head pastor you appoint better have some accountability– which I believe was severely lacking with Coy.
#7 Joanna, I attended CCFtL for two years. I don’t care to know the sordid details of his indiscretions where. I dont feel I need an apology or explanation. Why is this relevant and necessary? Does it matter if it was 1 or 15 women? Is this Biblical? I think the people who demand an explanation/apology are the ones that had an “imaginary” relationship with Bob and for the record, I met him a couple of times (he actually sat at my dinner table at the Grill once) and don’t feel otherwise entitled to this. If he just rode into the sunset, I would be perfectly ok with this personally.
Joanna,
I live in Oregon…but the network is rather large. š
I finally finished my taxes, so I’ve got a few minutes before I go out, make copies and mail them.
Charisma News is reporting that the CCFL website has removed all mention of Bob Coy. That seems rather drastic; even the Institute in Basic Life Principles kept Bill Gothard’s name on their website despite his resignation and the circumstances thereof.
I think there are differences in sin though they all disqualify a pastor. The details are important when it comes to restoration and the process. not restoration to the pulpit but restoration to fellowship
Is there a difference between a man who fails his marriage vows by confiding in another woman during tough marital times, proceeds to build on that second relationship and ends up in adultery with her alone and a serial adulterer like Tiger woods having onenight stands with p*rn stars. Both disqualify but both are not equal.
With pastors was the adultery with another parisihioner or many or was he going out of town looking for easy sex with strangers who did not know him as a pastor
Details is relative. Some details are certainly not necessary but full repentance it seems means full disclosure of where the man sinned and a fully repentant man does not continue to protect his reputation with unclear words. This is not meant to be cruel but to say that true healing is only possible with full disclosure
Music is up for the week. I’ve included three oldies from Maranatha music and a cool song titled Lawdy by the Vespers. Other nice ones as well so drop on by!
http://morethancoping.wordpress.com/2014/04/11/praise-worship-april-11th-2014/
annonymous poster,
“I think there are differences in sin though they all disqualify a pastor.”
I don’t think so. Pastors sin everyday – is the expectation that your pastor be Jesus perfect?
I watch my pastor down on his knees each week confessing his sins.
Just think, if your pastor didn’t sin he wouldn’t need Jesus.
sexual sin is what was meant. The sex sins that disqualify all disqualify but are not all equal when it comes to what is needed for repentnce
Went to work today for 5 hours. Came home and the ground was dry enough to till the garden plot. I feel it was a very productive day.
Vegetables planned for the garden: Bell Peppers, Red Peppers, Banana Peppers, Lima Beans, Pole Beans, Zucchini, Yellow Squash, Cucumbers, Corn, Okra, Cantaloupe and Tomatoes.
Really excited about having a garden. Been quite a few years.
I’m down to tomatoes and strawberries…not enough time to grow much more.
Did you guys coup de gras? I like my lawn a la mowed. š Feeling silly today.
Michael,
LOL: Tomatoes helps prevent prostrate cancer and strawberries are high in PEA.
.
PEA is 300 times stronger than cocaine—-but then again when eating strawberries, you have to eat a lot of them But when caught up in limerence, it can be extremely addicting and inhibit one from sticking it out to then transition into that which would then illicit the opiods chemicals that are then seeded and developed in a relationship that is long term and realistic.
Gary, love your humor, as always. Silly, is good for us all, even for those like myself who tend to be a bit of a nerd.
Finished our first 8 hours of “Bee School” this week. Astonishing creatures. Wondrous God.
About the type of sin that disqualifies someone from ministry….IMO, the ‘worst’ sin, is that of unwillingness to admit one’s sinfulness. To diminish or down play the grievousness of any sin shows a lack of true humility and fear of the Lord. “Bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance” said John, the Baptist. On going change, on going humility and gratefulness for God’s mercy are the attributes that are evidence of the needed changes of heart. IMO
Paigemom2013, you gonna raise bees?
We worked in the yard today but did not accomplish anything near what Derek did, way to go! š
Derek, I’m pretty sure that lima beans are from the enemy! š
covered, lol silly
Dusty, To bee or not to bee. That is the question of the hour….. We are leaning towards ‘yet’….. we’ll see. Many of the instructors at the classes this week are devout Lutherans, Missouri Synod, of course. We may go visit their church tomorrow.
10 large raised beds here. Soil turned over. Garlic, onions, beets, strawberries and blueberries in so far. Lots more planned. We joined a local subscription farm this year, so will adjust our garden accordingly. Want to pickle lots of cukes and beets this year…
Visited the farm store today to pick up supplies for organic fly and yellow jacket management…. Out with some insects…and possibly IN with $300 worth of bees and their new accommodations. Stay tuned.
There’s a movie coming out within a week or so titled “Heaven Is For Real.” At a church we attended for a time they had a night where we watched a video about the movie and the place was packed out. The thing is the book is filled with all sorts of contradictions to the Bible and people weren’t seeing it.
It seems a movie like this could be more dangerous than “Noah” as it really depicts Heaven in a very distorted way and could lead to people buying into some dangerous stuff.
My point being is I haven’t heard a peep from the Christian community about this film…
Wow Paige, how exciting! š
http://heavenisforreal.net/
erunner, my daughter has the book and finds it very encouraging in the midst of some very difficult times….
paige, I imagine the book could be encouraging but under scrutiny the contents of the book do not line up with the Bible.
I think as the Coy thing is further examined you may find the “pornography problem” may point to sexual addiction which is much bigger than a simple affair. CC has no room for psychology or addiction so it may never be dealt with. If this is the case the idea of restoration to the pulpit with out serious therapy and recovery is out of the question. This could be the CC inmates running the asylum.
Frosted Flake, You’re mistaken about CC and psychology. Some are still hardline but many are now utilizing psychologists and psychiatrists when necessary in helping others. I have been greatly encouraged by this.
Heaven is For Real: I heard the filmmaker Randall Wallace (of Braveheart-Secretariat) talk about this movie at a writing conference. I also saw the whole movie previewed there. Mr. Wallace explained that the movie depicts what actually happened– which is not to be confused with what evangelical Christian audiences wish had happened. They were well aware of the so called “Biblical inconsistencies” Ironically, this is why the father of the boy who “dies and sees heaven” did not jump to tell this story immediately. I can imagine he was not naive about how the church would review it. Sad statement. I thought the movie was well done, and I’m thankful they just told it like it happened and didn’t cave into feeling the need to spruce it up.
Ps40 @ 32, ” the movie depicts what actually happened ā which is not to be confused with what evangelical Christian audiences wish had happened. ….”
if you look at the book the Biblical inconstincies aren’t alleged as they are there in black and white for everyone to see. I guess I’m evangelical and I’m not sure what I wish had happened but there’s many books about people going to Heaven and coming back that contradict one another. Whose version do we believe? Paul saw heaven and didn’t even describe it.
erunner–
Who do we believe? That is a great question: Perhaps that is my real question?
I really have less of a problem with a family telling their story than I do with the term “Biblical” (in the literal sense). I am also having a hard time associating myself with those who are using that term “evangelical” lately. I studied church history and it kinda burst my anthropocentric bubble:( Perhaps my review of this movie may have been a little tinted by my bent evangelical lenses as of late. Albeit, I’m now Wondering what else I have been wrong about, and where my spiritual authority comes from ? It comes from the Spirit–I’m comfortable with that. But my Christian tradition (CC) I am not comfortable with. My Christian culture (Patriarchal and hierarchical) I am no longer comfortable with (severe abuse victim-survivor) . My “interpretation of Scripture”–not where near comfortable! Interpretive pluralism just messes with my head, and I’m tired of thinking I have to be right about all this stuff when, WHO AM I KIDDING– I’ve been a believer for 35 years and I know less information every passing moment. !!! Not that I haven’t tried. (Biblical Studies major).
What I know about God today is relational and experiential and not very far off of the stuff I have read for the last 35 years of devotional/academic reading of Scripture–just more broad in scope and not “evangelical” approved.
I’m ok with that–as long as I’m not labeled and put out to pasture for having honest questions that have risen out of honest pursuit of the heart of God?????
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/1013563_10203797753573673_1722767564154493590_n.jpg
Loads of sun today and Timbers on tv… a good day.
I will tell you one thing I can’t wait for….fried green tomatoes!
Ps40, We have a bit in common. I put in over 30 years with CC and it ended badly. I’m less dogmatic now than at any time in my life as a believer. I call myself evangelical because it’s really the closest label that describes me although I find myself at odds with much that goes on under that wide tent.
The passion that has been with me from the beginning is to see people come to Christ. In the past that meant plugging them into the closest CC with no consideration for anything else. I deeply regret that now as my other newer passion is for believers to stop being at war exposing one another and so forth. That grieves me deeply.
The Noah movie bugged me a bit based on descriptions as I’ve never seen it but I would classify that as up front in what the folks were trying to say and how they portrayed the story of Noah. Other movies that full on attack our faith don’t have me up in arms as I’ve come to expect it and it’s easy to see them for what they are.
Galatians talks about satan appearing as an angel of light while at the same time corrupting the gospel message. It is that type of attack that concerns me the most as it can subtly snare unsuspecting believers into falling for lies and in turn spreading them.
As I hold to the Bible as God’s word it is my litmus test for coming to personal convictions.
So when I became aware of the book this movie is based on I saw things that didn’t line up with scripture no matter how hard I might have tried.
Maybe I’m over reacting? I’m open to that. What I’m not open to is anything that might give a non believer a false security where no security exists.
So when I saw all of the talk, a lot media generated, concerning Noah I am still surprised nothing is out there concerning this movie that those same critics of Noah would have to disagree with.
Bottom line? I believe much of satan’s work flies under the radar which is perilous to us all.
e-runner,
Perhaps? But I cannot remove this nagging questionā¦.”Perhaps my narrow 21st century evangelical lens is also part of Satan’s attack?” One that is less Christo-centric and one that is more “right-centric”? Again–church history challenged my very small Christian ideology. I simply trust God to read and judge my heart. I also trust the Spirit to teach me every day (even through the Scriptures that I have often misused) I KNOW He will. And I am no longer “afraid” of not measuring up to what I now understand is a small sampling of Christianity’s lens. I am related to those who share my irreducible core of faith [God-with-us-Jesus] throughout Christian history. [very few of my relatives in the faith practice it like me-we all differ in our expression of it] Furthermore–we rarely agree on our doctrines. But I absolutely trust God’s Spirit to judge our approaches to His Scriptures (whether we use them as weapon, manipulative tool, or opportunity to hear God’s heart in the form of a testimony that points to God’s solution to broken humanity (New Covenant) –JESUS! I identify with what Jesus did, and Who He is–and my ancient foe cannot take that from me.
But I really appreciate hearing your opinions:) I’m all about hospitable spaces for differing opinions.That seems more Christ-like in the long run than pretending I’m right. But I have to confessā¦I’m jealous of your confidence–with all sincerity–I am.
Ps40, I can only hope I don’t use God’s word as a weapon or to manipulate anyone. I have my hands full with myself because I know the potential for bad that is within me.
Through the years many big things take place be they good or bad spiritually. Time has always moved on to the next big thing and ultimately I’m left with myself. I want to know God more intimately and I desire for the lost to know Him too. At the same time I want to live after my flesh. The battle never ends. Thanks for sharing with me. Allan
#30@Frosted Flake
My spouse reminded me that BC used to say that if you saw him with a woman in his car (or golf cart he used to get around the property) don’t assume it’s “another woman”, it could be his niece or a family member
I now wonder about those comments in light of the present situation.
@41
In some respects, Mr. Coy is correct and I think the church gets ridiculous at times over these things. I live in a small town and I have been seen driving around with a pretty young blond woman before. She happens to be my daughter-in-law. These are things that will not become a ball and chain for me. Now that being said, I don’t counsel women without my wife present, and at times, that has ruffled a few feathers. Some of our women “get it” and would rather talk with her than me anyway. If someone needs to have a quick, private conversation with me after the service, we can go into another room, all of which have glass doors. My wife can walk in at any time, as she is usually the one who will do any follow-up ministry with them.
Titus 1:15 To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.
and…………… I used to drive around in a golf cart too. It was on a ranch that I worked at and we used that cart for many things, such as mending fences and feeding the horses.
The different worlds we live in.
Peace.
PS40,
Sounds like you were at the DMiller StoryLine Conf. in San Diego. Me too.
Assistant Pastor Romain of CCCM only would talk with woman or men if he were seated in the very middle of the main sanctuary for all to see. It made it possible for him to avoid any misunderstandings by anyone.
Erunner said this:
“I find myself at odds with much that goes on under that wide tent.” About “evangelicals” and I find many others saying similar things, but what I can’t find or hear is what those things are one is at “odds” with.
I guess I like a more defined idea of what’s wrong. Is it the mega-church rock star pastor stuff like Furtick and Young, the lack of bible knowledge, few sacraments, if any, or is it other things like greasy grace? I’m not going to fight or troll to start one I just wonder why such statements are made and how many jump on these band wagons
I stated… “I put in over 30 years with CC and it ended badly. Iām less dogmatic now than at any time in my life as a believer. I call myself evangelical because itās really the closest label that describes me although I find myself at odds with much that goes on under that wide tent.”
Bob @ 46, “About āevangelicalsā and I find many others saying similar things, but what I canāt find or hear is what those things are one is at āoddsā with.
I guess I like a more defined idea of whatās wrong. Is it the mega-church rock star pastor stuff like Furtick and Young, the lack of bible knowledge, few sacraments, if any, or is it other things like greasy grace? Iām not going to fight or troll to start one I just wonder why such statements are made and how many jump on these band wagons”
I was speaking about a book and issues I had with it and am concerned the movie might place my concerns in a positive light. Since I’ve written this I’ve been to two large Christian websites that are promoting this movie.
If the movie presents contradictions to the Bible then I’m concerned why believers are promoting it. That’s an issue for me. I understand other movies taking artistic license to make “Christian” movies more enjoyable and I can live with that. For all I know this movie may prove me wrong.
I’m tired of rapture movies coming out all the time that present all sorts of whacky ideas as to how those making these movies present the actual event. I’d like to see more thoughtful presentations of the gospel if people choose to continue making faith based movies.
The things described by anonymous if true concerning stuff purportedly taking place at CCFL drive me nuts. You have probably seen them.
I loathe believers attacking other believers over just about anything as evidenced by so many discernment pages. A page a woman shared here dedicated to the evils of John MacArthur is an example.
CC pastors almost mocking denominations because of how they believe and dress.
CC pastors saying you’ll be the most educated out there if you sit under their verse by verse teaching for a year.
The attitude across the board by many towards the mentally ill bothers me greatly.
Auctioning off cars, etc. as a way to attract the lost.
The acceptance of homosexuality as not being sinful.
Slamming believers for the music they listen to and where they spend their money.
Pointing out the dangers of disney movies.
The quick elevation of unqualified men into roles of leadership and teaching. Using me as an example.
The bottom line is the splintering of our faith as all we seem to do is expose one another and demonize people like Rick Warren.
Taking five to ten minutes for communion as it’s rushed in at the end of the service as others are waiting for the next service.
“Pointing out the dangers of disney movies.”
They ARE dangerous! I’ve been sickened by many a Disney sermon -er- I mean movie. š
I need my binky.