Saeed Denies All Allegations

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143 Responses

  1. Josh the Baptist says:



    Uhmm. Confusing, I guess?

  2. Michael says:

    Let me be clear.
    I interviewed him as a reporter, not a commentator.
    This is a report, not an op ed piece.

  3. covered says:

    Great job Michael. What are your thoughts now about this whole mess?

    Does it sound like there’s much hope for reconciling with Naghmeh?

    Do you feel as though he was being honest with you?

  4. Pam Kulwiec says:

    Make our own application?

  5. Michael says:


    You know me pretty darn well…. 🙂

  6. Pastor Al says:

    BULL F’ing you-know-what

    Figures Franklin Graham is involved. He back Bob Grenier as well. “No Talk Rule” in force.

    Here’s the Script:

    Lie, give a Non-Denial Denial by generally denying but then not addressing specific instances of Abuse, call it “Strife” and “the Devil!” and blame the Abuse Victims. Say you just need to “let God take care of it!” unless it doesn’t go away, then you sue.

  7. Michael says:


    I will hold off on my thoughts at this point.
    My job was to get his side and present it as it was given.
    I want to do that without my opinion at this juncture so no one can accuse me of being unfair.

    I will say I would love to get her side as well.

  8. London says:


  9. Ulysses says:

    “He also stated that Franklin Graham has instructed him not to speak to the media about these things because further conflict in the media would be detrimental to saving the marriage.”

    He should have followed Franklin Graham’s counsel and he should not have said anything to you — especially this: “All of the things Naghmeh has said about these things is untrue.”

    Self-awareness minus zero.

  10. Pastor Al says:

    Typical Calvary Chapel, typical Franklin Graham.

    I wonder how much Franklin is getting paid for this? He’s a multi-millionaire “for Jesus!”

    Maybe he’s actually donating his time on this one to help defend another Abuser for Jesus.

  11. Pastor Al says:

    One of two things will happen, guaranteed:

    Naghmeh will cave to the church pressure and flip and go with the official narrative eventually to “reconcile” her marriage for God and “submit” to Graham and Saeed etc b/c “The DEVIL!”


    She’ll keep telling the Truth, she’ll become more and more disappointed and disillusioned in the so-called “Church’s” defending her abusive husband, she’ll try and try and get abused over and over and maligned and accused and blamed etc for “attacking” Saeed and Jesus….and then she’ll get pissed and fight harder….and Saeed probably ends up suing her just like Bob Grenier and the other jerk Tony Jones did to his ex-wife he abused.

  12. Kevin H says:

    Well, that clears up everything. (insert sarcastic smilie)

    But good job getting this Michael.

    Did you ask any questions about his prior conviction of domestic abuse?

  13. Michael says:

    Based on others I’ve interviewed, I doubt seriously that there will ever be a lawsuit in this case.
    Discovery can be unpleasant…

  14. Michael says:

    Kevin H,

    I did and the answer was always the same.
    He had answers, but the answers would create more marital strife.

  15. Pastor Al says:

    “Discovery can be unpleasant…”

    Oh yes it can and will be.

    Wait until the two brothers share about their homosexual acts over many years in BG’s home in tandem with Paul’s molestation allegation under oath against Bob.

    Where in the HECK does that sort of behavior come from? They just came up with doing that stuff in Pastor Bob’s home at a young age all on their own? Ya, right….

  16. Pastor Al says:

    homosexual acts (oral, sodomy) with each other…according to Bob Jr…for several years. Sick, sinful, depraved…and they just came up with that sin on their own? Paul says what he said a gazillion times to a gazillion folks including reporters and attorneys and the police and under oath…and we’re to believe nothing happened in that home?

    Good luck selling that one Team Bob.

  17. Papias says:

    Michael, Thanks for conducting this interview and asking the tough questions, even if the answers appear cloaked in “spiritualese”.

    Who does he consider his pastor now?

  18. M R says:

    So his kids never accidentally told anybody that they actually were talking to Daddy regularly on the phone?

  19. Michael says:


    He didn’t identify anyone outside of vague references to friends.
    It was very clear that Franklin Graham is pretty much calling the shots…

  20. Pastor Al says:

    “It was very clear that Franklin Graham is pretty much calling the shots…”

    Under what authority?

  21. Michael says:

    Franklin is an authority unto himself.
    Saeed seems to assent to his guidance willingly.

  22. Pastor Al says:

    I’ll just leave this Arrest Record for Saeed’s Domestic Violence here:

  23. Kevin H says:

    So according to Saeed, the ACLJ wasn’t involved in crafting the narrative. Many parts which we now know were false due to everyone admitting there was a cell phone with regular use. But if the ACLJ had nothing to do with “crafting” the narrative, they still used it as they directly used some of Naghmeh’s writings in their communications about Saeed. So the ACLJ would still be guilty of knowingly using a false and trumped up narrative to further the cause.

  24. Papias says:

    And if I were naïve, I would question what motivates Franklin to support Saeed on this matter?

    The Cash Cow lurks….

  25. Pastor Al says:

    KevinH, “the Ends Justify the Means”….when it comes to doing the work of Jesus!

  26. Pastor Al says:

    “Franklin is an authority unto himself.
    Saeed seems to assent to his guidance willingly.”

    Naghmeh should tell him to go you-know-what himself and make $880,000 per year for “saving the children!” with gift boxes for Jesus.

  27. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I am satisfied with the interview.
    I don’t see the cash cow value – who here is going to pay to see / hear him give a talk? What value is there in hearing him talk?

    I never got it, but hey, ya gotta be relevant

  28. Michael says:

    Kevin H,

    I think you show once again that my readers have discernment…

  29. EricL says:

    Good job at reporting, Michael. Restrained and to the point. You’ve allowed Saeed to make his denial and also express his appreciation for the many who advocated for his release. I will make my own application to his answers on some things and lack of response on other things.

    On other news today, Josh Duggar has just finished his 6 month faith-based rehab for sexual addiction. He is fortunate to not be in prison for the molestations he did. I hope he now has his life cleaned up. I hope even more that his victims get the long-term counseling needed to deal with such abuse.

  30. Michael says:

    “I will make my own application to his answers on some things and lack of response on other things.”

    Eric L…thank you…and well done. 🙂

  31. ( |o )====::: says:

    “…as Jesus asked me to do when I saw Him face to face and turned to Him sixteen years ago”

    O_o -(This is going to be his ongoing justification to treat his wife and kids like collateral damage)

  32. Em says:

    well, i have no discernment in this issue, but one thing that i can agree with Graham on is that this should never have been placed in the court of public opinion … did the efforts of Nahgmah contribute to his release? could she have stood down and just waited? dunno – but i think most of us would have welcomed a chance to keep the unjust imprisonment of our spouse before the public… the rest of it is just sad and sadder because now public

  33. Randy says:

    Every time I read an article, and there have been several, it causes me to lose confidence in the church, any church. We are far gone from biblical standards.

  34. Michael says:


    The other side of it is that these articles show that some of the church still cares about those standards.

  35. Randy says:

    Michael I wish that made me feel better. Not only do I feel isolated, it so harms the reputation of Christ in the world that you wonder how anyone can hear the Gospel. But yes, I I think it is good that some part of the body addresses these diseases in the church.

  36. Dee Parsons says:

    Thank you for the interview, Michael. I still believe Naghmeh. Seed’s answers were part of a script that I have seen over and over again. I also am suspicious when celebrity men get involved.

  37. Jean says:

    Congratulations on scoring the interview. That’s all I really have to say about this.

  38. Michael says:


    You and I would concur on many things… 🙂

  39. Babylon's Dread says:

    This case is like many things in church work. The nuances and complexities of human behavior are important. I smell all kinds of possibilities, all kinds. Anything from mental health to moral failure to religious pretense to cultural complexity lies behind all of this.

    There are some sick sick things in the weeds and the only thing that will possibility reveal the truth is time. People’s character will show over time.

  40. Em says:

    reading this thread reminds me again of how easily we slip into blaming the Church for what isn’t “Christian” in our midst… IF you are blessed with family ties, you know that there are one or two black sheep in there… you hope that grace and wisdom keeps the outside world from discarding your whole clan because of the misbehaviors of some…
    what happens here on the PhxP – and you have to be mindlessly biased not to recognize it – is a call to account…
    as ALL (think i’m right on that) the letters in the New Testament attest, the Body has flaws and needs calling out on them … discussions, disagreements, perspectives, and even some stupidity exposed … it all leads to a clearer view the integrity and the honor of our Faith and a clearer view of our Lord, too … IMNSHO – again 🙂

  41. Captain Kevin says:

    Michael, thanks for reporting. It’ll be interesting to see how this pans out. Franklin Graham may look and sound a bit like his father, but I think that’s where the resemblance ends.

  42. Em says:

    amen, Pastor Dread – praying you are right

  43. Em says:

    Samaritan’s Purse from its inception has done good work in the 3rd world and continues to play a vital role in missions and charity … that said, it is one slick operation and one has to ask, is God pleased? … He may be, but the rewards to those who front the operation may not be Eternal – dunno

  44. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “Anything from mental health to moral failure to religious pretense to cultural complexity lies behind all of this. ”

    Is this a good thing or a bad thing? I would say it describes a healthy church – in fact it probably describes my church – showing that we have all kinds of people flowing in and out of our doors and people in various stages of life, victories and relapses.

    Perhaps I should look closer – perhaps Saeed is from my church … perhaps Franklin Graham is from my church.

  45. Paige says:

    Thank you Michael.
    I was surprised that my B.S. meter didn’t go off.

    I had to remember to breathe, then peel my shoulders off my ears as I read.

    “Who Knows?”….my mantra

    it’s a tragic mess on many levels.
    I sure as heck will not be the one throwing any stones.

  46. Victoria Ayools says:

    Prayer is what we all need to support this family. We all know and I agree with Saeed that Satan is after all God’s children and he uses the weaker vessels. Saeed has more than enough burden over his shoulders right now. My heart goes to him as I pray that God turns all these around for Saeed’s good and all concerned too in Jesus name

  47. Babylon's Dread says:

    You basically had a man who knows your voice has been trusted in this matter. He knows there was genuine advocacy in these matters. Speaking to you was the honorable thing to do. Not saying anything was the predictable outcome. “I am innocent, I cannot say more without doing damage, thank you for your help.” Having seen many people falsely accused gives me pause. Having seen many victims protect their abusers gives me pause. Having seen many people pull out abuse as the silver bullet gives me pause.

  48. j2theperson says:

    It’s a little difficult to believe the denials of a man who plead guilty to domestic assault charges.

  49. Babylon's Dread says:

    True enough…

    There is definitely more than smoke behind the charges.

  50. Cash says:

    Great report, Michael.

    I believe Naghmeh and I think Saeed’s denials don’t pass the smell test. He claims that each and every allegation she made against him was false, even with his past history of abuse. That dog won’t hunt. And Franklin Graham is apparently the one, unless there are others we don’t know about, pushing Saeed in this direction of denial. And people don’t understand why Naghmeh won’t engage in counseling with this guy. He shows no contrition at all for his behavior toward his wife and is further abusing her by his denials. I will say those are just my opinions and I most certainly could be wrong.

  51. London says:

    What did you all expect him to say?
    Even if he’s completely guilty, he wouldn’t come on a blog and admit that with potential legal action (custody, divorce etc) in his future.
    No one with any sense, or a lawyer, would fess up in a blog.

  52. Cookie says:

    Please all stop making judgments. A man in a crisis marriage has agreed to an interview with Michael. He has claimed in the interview that he is working as hard as he can on restoring his marriage. That his wife comes first and his family comes first. That he cannot give any details because it would harm the restoration process. Have any of you ever been in a crisis marriage? I have. There is a lot of emotion. A roller coaster of emotion. Love one minute. Hate the next. Lies. Accusations. Recantations. Apologies. I have accused my husband of things he didn’t do. I have exaggerated the truth. In my anger. In my feelings of betrayal. But never in such a public forum. We agreed to work it out and have stayed together now 37 years. Remember only one partner in this marriage has made specific accusations publicly against the other. Those accusations have been denied.

    I would be interested in hearing from Naghmeh to discern if she is going scorched earth or also keeping quiet to save the marriage. So far she has taken the scorched earth approach. And please–stop with the domestic abuse plea. The facts speak for themselves- a slight push- no injury- no charges until Naghmeh insisted- a misdemeanor guilty plea by Saeed. No further evidence of physical abuse over the next decade.

    Consider this- if these accusations by Naghmeh are false- just consider the love that Saeed must have for her to stay with her- work for restoration- and not malign her publicly. She has completely burned his reputation, soiled his witness, in front of the entire world- yet he remains committed to her. Does that say anything?

  53. Babylon's Dread says:

    I think Michael got what he expected but hoped he would get a bit of clarifying information about such things as the phone, the actual prison conditions, the role of ACLJ, the ordaining authority over Saeed, the plans and the general truth vs what we understood to be his experience to be like.

  54. Michael says:


    I tried. 🙂

    There is a language barrier, he is at times hard to understand.
    The rest, he was just not forthcoming about.

    He did say that he wasn’t in touch with her for the first six months, then gradually was allowed increased phone time.

  55. Pastor Al says:

    “What did you all expect him to say?
    Even if he’s completely guilty, he wouldn’t come on a blog and admit that with potential legal action (custody, divorce etc) in his future.
    No one with any sense, or a lawyer, would fess up in a blog.”

    Jesus would expect that.

  56. Pastor Al says:

    Jesus or the Lawyers?

    They always go with the Lawyers. It’s the Calvary Chapel and Evangelical Church way.

  57. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jesus wants us to confess our sins on a blog? LOL – I’m sorry, but I don’t think so.

  58. Scott says:

    His father spent 50k to 100k in bribes? Holy cow, that’s some serious dough.

  59. Pastor Al says:

    1 Calvary Chapel 1:1 If thou find thyself in an abuse scandal of thine own making, do not tell the truth, retainest thou a good lawyer or Franklin Graham, or both, blameth the Devil and sayeth thou wanst to reconcile without copping to anything specific and giveth thou a general denial publicly. Then shutteth thine mouth and let your Calvary Chapel buddies and Evangelical Gurus defend you in a whisper campaign and erecteth the biggest f’ing-eth Stone Wall you can mustereth. Thus sayeth the Lord.

  60. Pastor Al says:

    Didn’t Franklin Graham swoop in and help rehab the Skip Heitzig image during his scandal?

    I think Franklin should have the title of Pastor of Covereth thy Arse

  61. Pastor Al says:

    1 Calvary Chapel 1:2 And, if thine own Pastor Bob’s two blood sons are partakething in unnatural abominable acts of man on man pleasure in Pastor Bob’s home for several years, and if one of the two sons sweareth under oath that Pastor Bob hath violated him in an unnatural abominable manner, thou shall sue the messenger for trying to get the church to doeth justice and holdeth its pastor accountable. Lawyereth up and sue, circle the Calvary Chapel wagons, thus sayeth the Lord!

  62. filbertz says:

    Pastor Al,
    do you have a list of demands to go along with the hi-jack?


  63. Michael says:


    We don’t out people here even though we all know who someone is.

  64. j2theperson says:

    ***Please all stop making judgments.***

    I kind of roll my eyes when I see people make comments like that. (1) It’s impossible to say something like that while not making a judgement of your own. (2) In order to function in life and interact with other people and the world around you, you *need* to make judgments. You would literally be crippled in your ability to make decisions if you could not look at other people and situations and decide what you think about them.

  65. Michael says:


    I just spent hours being harangued by someone who demanded I not judge…while all the while making awful judgments about me.

    Good post…

  66. Hilary says:

    Oh, but seeing the face of God would have killed Moses…

  67. Susan says:

    Hmmm, my first thought when all this broke is something doesn’t add up, a woman doesn’t fight desperately for husband release like this and them flip and accuse him of evil? REALLY, there is more to this than has come out. I wonder what else is going on? Time will tell, I personally believe him, she is acting downright strange? Sometimes a good offense is a good defense. Perhaps someone befriended her in her despair and now she doesn’t know what to do. Very sad, that after all he has been through, she would do this? If someone abused me, I would not have been trying to get them out only to become the accuser?

  68. Judy Robbins says:

    Praying for the family, for sure! But is there any chance that someone from Iran has threatened her life or her family’s life unless she says these things?

  69. Erunner says:

    A sad set of circumstances. My thoughts now are with the children. May God’s will be done.

  70. Pastor Al says:

    Some of you are total suckers and idiots.

    My gawd evangelical church people can be some of the biggest blind fools on the planet.

  71. Pastor Al says:

    I am very grateful for our Founding Fathers, that they were not evangelical idiots.

    I am glad they understood how stupid most people are and provided major checks and balances in our System.

    I am glad they understood that a Theocracy is a very bad idea b/c #religiousidiots

    Some of you in this thread just reinforce those sentiments by infinity.

  72. Pastor Al says:

    Fil, yes, one demand: Will some of you folks stop being such idiots?


  73. “My gawd evangelical church people can be some of the biggest blind fools on the planet.”

    Says the man whose life thesis is “you can’t know anything for sure.”

  74. Interesting that he says he can’t go into details without causing trouble for his marriage .. but he doesn’t seem to think saying what his wife said is untrue is a problem. So … in other words … don’t believe her … she’s not telling the truth … he’s innocent … he’s right … she’s wrong … but he isn’t giving any details because he cares about his marriage. ?

  75. Now I have already made the claim that both parties deserve the death penalty in this case (and i really don’t know if i am joking) so I do know I am not taking side – but let me ask this – would Saeed be looked at in a better light if he had gone down the list point by point describing, explaining and denying each of his wife’s claims?

    I don’t think so – I think it would be thrown out as “he is lying” – “he has twisted the truth to put the wife in a bad light” or “Franklin Graham engineered his responses one by one”

    Hey, when the wife has you by the short hairs, she has you by the short hairs. He is in a no win situation and should go radio silent.

  76. ( |o )====::: says:

    “Oh, but seeing the face of God would have killed Moses…”
    …except Saul of Tarsis claimed exactly the same thing, and I think Benny Hinn might have too, and this morning I made a pancake that looked like Jesus, but it remained silent, so I ate it.

  77. Pastor Al says:

    “If you have seen me, you have seen the father”

    ^^ Supposedly lots of folks saw “the face of god” unless you are doing the Trinitarian Tap-dance and splitting god into parts and pieces again?

  78. covered says:

    G~ your #76 is awesome!

  79. Michael says:

    Fil is a personal friend of mine and a neighbor.
    He is about as far from being an idiot as you can get.
    He and he wife are among the most gracious and loving people in this valley.

    I do not keep a space online for my friends to be insulted.

    Do not do it again.

  80. ( |o )====::: says:

    Thanks Covered.

    I learned early on in my journey that anyone who claims to see, hear from, or be guided by Jesus on a face : face basis is to be avoided.

    …hyperbole not withstanding 😉

  81. Pastor Al says:

    It wasn’t directed at Fil

    Work on your reading comprehension por favor

    It’s a commentary on “some” on here who ignore a Guilty Plea in a Criminal proceeding in Idaho for Domestic Violence and find any and all excuse to defend a Church Celebrity like Saeed.

    Quit with the accusations and ultimatums. You tend to want to read the worst into my comments.

  82. please stop says:

    Pastor Al, please stop. You long ago lost all credibility. No one believes a word you say so please stop your nonsense. You have become like a toothache that won’t go away.

  83. Pastor Al says:

    MLD said, “Says the man whose life thesis is “you can’t know anything for sure.””

    You can know a few things for sure, like Gravity etc.

    And, I am in good company with regards to that statement:

    Here are some others who basically assert similar or same:


    ….many other much wiser men and women than me or you.

  84. Pastor Al says:

    please stop, will you please stop? Long ago you lost all credibility. In fact, I don’t take anything as credible from anonymous folks.

  85. Josh the Baptist says:


    We don’t out people here even though we all know who someone is.”

    I’m missing it. Did I accidentally type his name or something?

  86. Michael says:

    The other Josh, Josh.

  87. Pastor Al says:

    Believe this: Saeed has a Guilty Conviction for Domestic Violence in Idaho.

    Bob Grenier’s one blood son says he and BG’s other blood son had homosexual sodomy and oral for several years beginning in their young teens in Pastor Bob’s home and one of those two bloods sons of Bob Grenier says in a sworn court testimony under oath that Bob did abominable things to him.

    Fine, don’t believe me. Believe the Idaho Court record and believe Bob Grenier’s two blood sons.

  88. Josh the Baptist says:


  89. Pastor Al says:

    I call some of you names b/c you act like you are so unintelligent by ignoring known facts that are relevant to these serious cases. It’s either that, or you are intentionally being Intellectually Dishonest (which may be the case) in order to defend stuff that is indefensible.

    I read the bible a lot. Jesus and Paul were not nice to people, often. The OT Prophets? OMG they were hardcore.

    If your little feelings get hurt easily, I suggest you don’t read about half the bible.

  90. Josh the Baptist says:

    In fairness, you are not Jesus, Paul, or an OT prophet.

  91. Pastor Al says:

    “In fairness, you are not Jesus, Paul, or an OT prophet.”

    And neither are you or any pastor or guru yet you have no problem preaching and teaching and expressing your take on things and then appealing to the bible.

  92. Josh the Baptist says:

    That’s true. So we are all in the same boat.

  93. Xenia says:

    If so-called “Pastor Al” were half as wonderful as he tries to present himself to us he would honor his old friend Michael, who is physically unwell and needs to reduce stress, and leave the PhxP. But he does not love his old friend Michael and doesn’t care if Michael lives or dies. “Pastor Al” only loves himself.

    If Michael can’t ban or moderate him, if “Al” is finding some way to sneak around efforts to ban/ moderate him, those of us who appreciate and honor and yes, love Michael should do the next best thing: IGNORE HIM.

  94. Josh the Baptist says:

    Xenia, I took that stand years ago, but soon realized that Michael was still interacting with Al more than he was me. My conclusion is that the two are inextricably connected at the hip. If you take one, you get them both. They are a package deal. I mean, look at the top link on the right side of this page.

    So, I decided to like Al. I rib him a little here and there. But he’s alright with Michael, he’s alright with me.

  95. Michael says:

    Sorry, I’ve spent the last hour trying to upload one picture to the backend.

    Something is broken back there…


    I’ve asked Alex to cool his jets.

    I don’t have a clue what he thinks about me, but it doesn’t affect what he does here.
    I do know that God has used him for my sanctification. 🙂

    Maybe God is trying to tell me something.

    While I had this going on here, I had someone else on Facebook calling me everything but holy and demanding a pound of flesh.

    I ended up in a bad way last night.
    I can’t do that anymore.

    It’s time for me to figure out a way to fix things or just get off social media for a spell.

  96. Pastor Al says:

    Michael hasn’t banned me, not that I’m aware of. He gets upset sometimes, but I think it’s more b/c of folks emailing him and complaining about me and getting him riled up, when you can just put your big boy and big girl pants on and not be such whiney b*****s and suck it up and tolerate some pushback and another opinion here and there. I hardly post anymore. I’m not even on the Top 10 this year or last year guaranteed.

  97. Josh the Baptist says:

    How come you never acknowledged the humor when I was calling you Papa Al?

  98. Michael says:


    You would be in moderation if the damn moderation panel would work.

    I don’t want a blog where people speak to each other like you just spoke to our readers in #96…this isn’t an ongoing barroom brawl.

    I don’t want a place where you have to be thick skinned and “tough” to engage in conversation.

    I’m tired of constant conflict being the norm in all areas of life…it is killing us all.

    You enjoy constant poking and conflict for the sake of conflict.

    There is a place for that…but not here.

    Most of us here (with a few exceptions) genuinely like and care for each other.
    We are tolerant of our different traditions and beliefs.

    We are on the journey together.

    We need spaces where we feel safe and feel like we have others to walk with.

    At the end of the day my physical problems and needs are just that…my problems.

    They will force me into making decisions I don’t want to make…but really shouldn’t have to make.

    I love this place…and I’d miss being here.

    Cutting off comments entirely would defeat the purpose of community.

    We’ll see how it goes from here.

  99. Pastor Al says:

    “You enjoy constant poking and conflict for the sake of conflict.”

    Actually, no. I think I’m just wired for conflict and am not afraid of it since it was my normal growing up.

    I still think you are way over-reacting and some of your followers aren’t doing you any favors by stoking the flames.

    Like I said, count the comments for this year and last year. I bet I’m not in the Top 10.

    Many on here are simply passive aggressive and couch their “conflict” more politely, much like the Pharisees. At least with me, you get honesty.

    But that’s fine. Have a good rest of your day and know that I still support half of what you do…the reporting on Church Abuse is usually very good stuff. The philosophical discussions and political discussions are what they are and it is unfortunate some of your followers are so thin skinned.

  100. Em says:

    Nancy Regan’s funeral service was on TV here today … unique – it was less classy than it was Hollywood, but maybe that’s Hollywood class – dunno – had some nice moments
    bet she didn’t know that Ave Maria is not a funeral piece, tho 🙂
    her son felt it was necessary to begin his eulogy with the declaration that he didn’t believe in the supernatural… who cares? … made me think of someone here who feels driven to make irrelevant digs… or ones that are relevant only in his own mind

    i am the master of the irrelevant, so i know whereof i speak

  101. Michael says:

    The ‘very good stuff’ costs me so much that I have to make sure everything else is peaceful.
    Yesterday almost put me in the hospital…all hell broke loose on my head after posting this article.
    My blood pressure went through the roof and stayed there.

    I’m not wired for conflict anymore…more like convalescence. 🙂

  102. Pastor Al says:

    “I’m not wired for conflict anymore…more like convalescence.”


    Well, you are compelled and can’t help but do what you do. It’s certainly not for everyone.

  103. Josh the Beloved says:

    @ pastor al bundy

    I’m curious, setting aside all things in relating to the modern church etc. In the classical, but correct sense of the meaning, as defined by Jesus and later Paul. Are you a born Christian.?

  104. Josh the Beloved says:


    Forgot the word “again”.

  105. Jean says:

    Josh the Beloved,

    Just an FYI, there’s only ONE kind of Christian. “Born again” is not an additive or distinctive.

  106. Josh the Beloved says:

    @ Jean,

    Jesus only recongizes a those who are born again or born from above. However, because of error due to factions and heresies. Many are taught that they are Christian, but have not experienced that saving born again or born from above experience. Hence, to clarify the meaning.

  107. Em says:

    Josh the B, you are correct 🙂 Christian or not, you must be born again… it’s in the Book!

  108. Jean says:

    “Many are taught that they are Christian, but have not experienced that saving born again or born from above experience. Hence, to clarify the meaning.”

    Thanks Josh the B., I need to check on myself. What is the experience I need to have had? How do I know if I had it?

  109. Josh the Beloved says:

    We see John the Apostle himself, clamping down and calling out in the early church. The Gnostic Christians, who believed to be Christians but clearly where not by John himself. So hence the need to define the word “Christian”. Or else like Paul said we have false brethren (Christians) in our midst.

  110. Michael says:

    We will always have false Christians in our midst.
    Jesus said the wheat and the tares grow up together…and He’d sort it out in the end.

  111. Jean says:

    I think we Christians individually are both wheat and tares, which grow up together…and He will sort us out in the end. 🙂

  112. Pastor Al says:

    Josh, OK, what does it mean to be a “true Christian” then? You seem pretty certain there is such a thing, if so you should be able to easily define it, correct?

  113. Pastor Al says:

    ….and Josh’s statement is the type of Intellectual Dishonesty that goes unchallenged here (well almost unchallenged 😉 )

  114. Jean says:

    Uh,, at #108 I was all over it.

  115. Pastor Al says:

    Jean, I thought that was a great answer actually….and probably the truth of that parable.

  116. Jean says:

    What comment are you referring to regarding “that was a great answer”?

  117. Josh the Beloved says:

    @ Al,

    To be a “true” Christian. And True to be defined as authentic. Is to be a born again or born from above.

    So Al, are you born from above or born again

  118. Pastor Al says:

    ” Is to be a born again or born from above.”

    Quantify this. What does that mean in practical earthly terms. Give me a list of stuff I have to do and believe to validate that in your version of “born again”

  119. Pastor Al says:

    Jean, your #111 about the wheat and tares. Spot on, IMO

  120. Josh the Beloved says:

    Are you being honest here? Do you not know what Jesus means when he said. You must be born again?

  121. Jean says:

    Josh, you’re dodging.

  122. Jean says:

    Thanks Pastor Al.

  123. Josh the Beloved says:

    Jean I can’t multi task very well. So once my conversation is done with Al. I’ll be happy to pick things up with you. 😀

  124. Pastor Al says:

    ” Do you not know what Jesus means when he said. You must be born again?”

    It doesn’t matter what I think, you’re the one who made the assertion. Define it, quantify it, what does it mean in practical terms?

    I’m born again! There. Does that make me born again in your book? How do you validate that statement?

  125. Pastor Al says:

    If you can’t define it and quantify it, then your statement about “be born again!” means nothing and is worthless.

  126. Josh the Beloved says:

    It’s not for me to validate Al. It’s your personal responsibility, to either validate it or not.

  127. Pastor Al says:

    “It’s not for me to validate Al. It’s your personal responsibility, to either validate it or not.”

    The non-answer.

    That’s what I thought. You can’t quantify it or define it, which is the Truth.

  128. Jean says:

    Maybe it’s a quiver in the liver. 🙂

  129. Pastor Al says:

    Jean, LOL.

    I’ve asked the question many times of many different flavors of “Christian”. I have yet to get one answer that doesn’t end up in “well, actually it’s a mystery, I don’t know”

  130. Pastor Al says:

    But, instead of being honest and starting with “well, actually it’s a mystery, I don’t know”

    …it’s YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN! You must believe this doctrine and believe this theological position and you must do this and do that and “abide” and “show fruit” and “live in the spirit!” and so on and so forth.

    However, when those things are examined and questioned, it all breaks down very quickly.

  131. Josh the Beloved says:

    It’s an answer Al you don’t want to hear. Because the prerequisite to even being able to see the kingdom and perceive it. You must humble your self and become as a little child.
    So Al, does this description fit you?

  132. Pastor Al says:

    Josh, what does a little child understand for certain?

  133. Pastor Al says:

    Josh, what does a little child know for sure? What sort of doctrine and theology does a little child have?

  134. Pastor Al says:


  135. Pastor Al says:

    I am the humble one.

    You Dogmatic Doctinaires are the prideful ones.

    You say in breath you are Certain of this and that Doctrine and Theology and you say you are Certain of what it means to be “TRULY Saved!” etc.

    You’re the prideful ones who say you have it all figured out…yet under scrutiny….it is shown you do not.

    I say, “Hmm, I don’t know for sure, it’s a Mystery”

  136. Pastor Al says:

    in one breath above.

  137. Pastor Al says:

    What I do know for sure….you don’t have it all figured out and you know very little. While you profess “Certainty”…that is a sham, you try to project Certainty and your faith is more in keeping yourself and the other sheep convinced your particular Angle and Doctrinal Box has it all figured out….and a lack of confidence in that particular Box equals a lack of faith…which is not faith in God at all…it’s faith in a Doctrinal/Theological Box and particular Sect’s System.

    I trust that God is Good and God is Love and that it will work out. I have “the faith of a child”

  138. Josh the Beloved says:

    Al, if you don’t understand what Jesus meant as an adult. Yet, even a child can understand. Then perhaps you lack one thing. You haven’t yet, humbled yourself as a little child, to the point where you can see and believe. Because if you have, then you wouldn’t be asking this simple question. This is for you to do, and discover, if you will to do or not.

  139. Em says:

    there comes a point in one’s life where one must come to terms with God – too long, too often and too many of us dodge that accountability by placing ALL the responsibility on other people to show us God … In My Not So Humble Opinion

    God keep and sweet dreams all

  140. Pastor Al says:

    Josh, you don’t see the irony in your comments. I can’t overcome your lack of reading comprehension and ability to think critically. End of discussion.

  141. Josh the Beloved says:


    What is the irony?

  142. Michael says:


    We’re done now.
    You didn’t make any sense to me, let alone him.
    We have no need for an endless debate.

  143. Julie Anne says:


    I noticed you and I both allowed Saeed/Naghmeh to read our articles before posting. That is certainly not done in mainstream media. I had hundreds of articles written on my lawsuit case and not one person asked me to preread the articles. Gotta love it when people say we bloggers don’t have accurate reporting.

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