Son of Fallen CC Boise Pastor Speaks

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132 Responses

  1. Michael says:

    If one of us fell…we’d have to find counseling at home and have to face the people we betrayed on a regular basis simply by virtue of living in the same community.

    This is celebrity repentance…and I have a hard time buying it.

  2. Luke says:

    We asked him to do this. Our family picked the counselor. He is not scared to live in this community. Steve Carr is someone we respect and feel can best serve the situation.


  3. em ... again says:

    dunno, the process sounds familiar… that pastor guy in Colo. Springs a while back?

    that said, it is something to hope for… a restored family, a restored relationship with his Redeemer, a life now lived per God’s plan under the radar and in humility and grace… i hear ex pastors make good salesmen… we always need good salesman… only half jesting

  4. pstrmike says:

    You are correct Michael. This is a parade of privilege not of brokenness. That is not to say that Bob isn’t broken, it is to say that the path to wholeness is not through the same means of celebrity that inevitably contributed in some fashion to his fall.

    The issue here is that somewhere Bob became a tyrant, taking things that did not belong to him and the ultimate expression of tyranny is taking another man’s wife. That is part of the root that must be dealt with.

    I have spoken to most in my circle in a supportive fashion for Bob Caldwell. He was the one pastor among all who have fell that I believed had a real spiritual relationship with God.

    A close friend and I had a long talk about Caldwell earlier last week. To summarize the conversation, Bob is a man of strong desire (eros) as most pastors are. You will address desire through means of the flesh or through the Spirit. Most of us attempt to meet desire through either means; and in Bob’s case he went extreme in both directions.

    Abandon your privilege and embrace your brokenness.

    “Down the road of suffering, to the wedding feast” ~ David Ruis, “Faithful”

  5. Jimb says:

    For heaven’s sake, criticize a person for not going for counsel, not because of where they traveled to get their counseling. There are a lot of dynamics we don’t understand involving living in a community, especially as a high profile pastor, and then going to someone locally for counseling. I think he is surely going to someone he trusts and knows is highly qualified, and to that person he feels comfortable pouring his guts on the ground, so to speak. You seem to assume he is going there because he is unrepentant, and think that is not a very loving thing to do. Think the best and hope the best, unless you want to have a sensational blog?! No, I know that isn’t you! Let’s wait and see what fruit this bears…

  6. CTruth says:

    So what will Luke and siblings do for their mom? She has no clue what hit her. She has no clue how to to crawl out of this pit. Steve Carr can’t help with that. He is not equipped to. Try going with her to Women in the Battle, so she can see how she was disarmed of thought life and how submission was twisted into something never intended by God.
    God’s grace and mercy to all involved.

  7. Michael says:


    Very well said…

  8. Luke says:

    Our mom is our focus. We are all rallying together. She is receiving counseling separately – we are with her everyday. Both of my parents counselors are communicating with each other – Our primary goal is to serve her and love her through this horrific experience


  9. Michael says:


    I don’t buy it.
    The community in Boise deserves much more clarity and transparency than has been given on this matter and the nation deserves more on the Abedini issues.

    This elevation of one man in the church as being above the rest is what leads to the possibility of tyranny that pstrmike explained.

    It’s also unbiblical and ungodly.

  10. Michael says:


    To be clear, I appreciate your posting, though I differ in the particulars.
    This has to be extremely difficult for you and your family.

  11. There is Hope in Him says:

    Because this got moved I am posting this: from the other direction: Out of all this sorrow there will be good fruit.
    Totally agree Scooter Jones @611, I love this family and I love my church and I completely believe Luke, I have no reason to not believe him, I have known him for most of his life. Everyone one who reads his statement I hope you can stand back and clearly see the transparency and heartfelt note he has shared. Yes I am still hurt and angry like many of us that attend CC Boise but I still lean on John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. This is the verse that God gave me the day I sat in church and heard about my pastor and was so broken and hurt. I will say this again the Caldwell family is one of the most giving and loving families (sincere) you will ever meet. Even though I still have my angry/hurt moments about Bob, I know he loves the Lord and I saw God use him many times in peoples lives all over the world. I will be honest I said some not very nice things about Bob and I apologize (moments of trying to process). I am so thankful that Luke shared what he did, he does not need to do anything more but it has restored my hope again and I know God is going to do an incredible work in this fellowship as He has promised. And as I have shared before God is moving through the fellowship with healing and transparency and the leadership and Tucker are on their knees. So if there are more questions, concerns/etc. just come visit CC Boise, no need to make this ugly anymore.

  12. DavidM says:

    Luke, thanks for being brave enough to post here. This is a tough crowd, often harshly judgmental. It is easy to stand at a distance and cast aspersions at what we THINK we know. But, most of us here have no idea what is going on in the family. I imagine it is hell right now for the Caldwell family. Prayers for you and yours.

  13. victorious says:

    Blessings of comfort and counsel for the Cakdwell family!
    Steve Carr is a great start for Bob to embrace repentance concerning his adultery at a personal level in regards to his wife and family.

    I hope and pray he lays hold of this counsel and he lets the discipline of the Father have its way in his life.
    I pray he listens and heeds the voice of His Savior , His wife and His family and let them speak again and again while he learns to stop being the voice that directs everybody and he learns to speak through a consistent walk .

    Bob often told the story from a prominent platform of a pastor of pastors of going up the mountain once a week to seek the Lord. I pray he learns to live in the valley and seek the Lord together with his wife and family , making room for their emotions and voice.

    Bob and the repentance that needs to be embraced and lived out transparently before the people he lead is another circle of restoration although it intersects with the first one of family and marriage.

    Bob and the servant leaders he abused locally and those he addressed in abusive threatening ways while serving on other boards is another circle of repentance , intersecting with the others.

    I pray that he experiences a revelation of the Spirit in his heart that leads him to see that in walking out his repentance as the broken man and not the anointed pastor; he will get to see and experience a ministry of reconciliation of healing and transformation above all he could ask or think.

    Repentance is the way for him to fully share in the unsearchable riches of Christ and participate with all the saints that intersected with him , in exploring the height and depth and breadth and width of the love of Christ.
    I am praying he will experience that original call to become a child of God and a follower of Christ and a member of the body of Christ.

  14. Paige says:

    I may be entirely naive and overly optimistic…. but I want to have hope in this situation, frankly, even if ‘hope’ includes a divorce (which would be Biblical) . If I had heard anything remotely like this regarding my former situation (adulterous pastor husband), I would have been so hopeful and happy. I waited for years for that ‘broken’ or the willingness to seek counsel, but it never happened. I wanted desperately to put my family back together and was even willing to accept him back, forgive, etc. Personal family history is so valuable, even after a ‘train wreck’.

    Steve Carr is a stickler, IMO, with a strong & severe b.s. filter.

    As to traveling for counsel…. much like a jury that needs to move to find “impartial’ jurors, maybe, just maybe, it is a good thing. God knows. I’m siding with being hopeful, knowing God is able…. Even if these ‘facts’ are false, even if Bob is everyone, God is still able…. and that is the only Hope for anyone’s life.

  15. Michael says:

    Frankly, I’m far more concerned about those dealing with this betrayal who don’t have the resources to go all over the country to find someone to “counsel” them.

    Vic also alluded to the fact that this man functioned as a tyrant…but that’s sin that no one seems to think important.

    While I wish the best for Bob and his family, I think the focus on the healing of the perpetrator is misguided and a perpetuation of a sick system.

  16. Paige says:

    As to the tyrant situation, God certainly knows how to bring tyrants down.

    Proverbs 22:14 “The mouth of the adulterous woman is a deep pit, and he who is being judged by the Lord will fall into it”

    Yes, the co-lateral damage to the family is beyond massive, life long. The harm done to the church and outsiders is indescribable…

  17. JM says:

    I cannot help but ache for Luke, his siblings–and especially his mother. No one will ever suffer as much as his mother. No one. None of them knew or had any control over Bob’s actions and yet they are suffering immeasurably right now. Because Bob was a high-profile pastor who, apparently, hid what he did for a long time, it has now, of necessity, become public. In an effort to cause other pastors to have the healthy fear of unrepentance or secret sin (as spelled out in Timothy 5:20), Bob’s sin has, indeed, been made public. If any of CC’s “Associations” or “Networks” had a better history of dealing with this sin in the camp and the victims thereof–then the publicizing of this incident on this blog wouldn’t have been necessary. In my book, the blame for Bob’s transgressions being made public in the way it has, lies directly at the feet of those who have been part of cover ups and obfuscations inside of CC for decades. It is known and it has not been repented of. How do I know? Because they are a public entity and have not published anything publicly decrying their awful past or their plans to fix it. Again–it’s called repentance! Public sin calls for public repentance.

    I confess my own prejudices in that I wonder about the leaven of the CC founder’s disqualification that set everything into motion so these incidents could proliferate. One of the very sad side effects of having that much power is that these pastors can end up alone and others will leave him alone because they were taught to be “true believers” and look at everything through the Moses Model prism. Because of Chuck’s laxity, that means, even though a pastor could do what Caldwell did, he was not given the healthy fear of being removed and , therefore, didn’t feel the pressure to step down on his own years ago. This allowed things to go on until it got worse and even more people could be hurt. Timely consequences are not just to benefit victims–they do actually benefit the perpetrator. Just imagine if this would have been handled years ago and not covered up how different things would be now. In some twisted sense–Caldwell could be considered a victim, too. He, and others like him, are victims of the Kool-aid that was disseminated by the charismatic founder who, because he personally did not want too much scrutiny, eventually rationalized violating Scripture on pastoral disqualification. What horrible, hurtful fruit so many have suffered under because they were deceived by the candy-coated cover into becoming part of this man-made system. CC is the very bad gift that keeps on giving!

    If I was the family, I would do everything I could to find a way to survive this and put the family back together. However, if I may, I would encourage that the wife will have help to make sure that all the information was known about what happened. If it isn’t all confessed–it will come out eventually and the pain will start all over again. It would be tragic if anything like that were to happen. No wife, who is willing to love again deserves that–ever. On the other thread, the wife is spoken of so kindly. I hope she will know that the love the congregation has for her is in tact and that there are those who want to help, if possible.

    Unfortunately, for Bob, it does not end there. The same reason that this incident became publicized is the same reason that his work is not done. He was a leader of a congregation. He needs to make right what he has done to them by violating their trust and taking of their resources under false pretenses. I could see no indication that anyone on the other thread would begrudge the family being restored. None. Even by some who didn’t see things the same way, there was an agreement to pray for everyone involved. However, it would be foolish to delay addressing the congregation for too long. If there were, indeed, erroneous speculations on the other thread, then the best way to stop them is reliable information and a reliable word from Caldwell that he gives a rat’s rear end about their disposition. I believe if he were to show a sincere sorrow over taking advantage of them for so long and show that he has a conscience about the emotional pain he has caused, it would diffuse a lot of the anger and confusion.

  18. Mayonaise says:

    Question: Steve Carr from CC RSM?
    Question: Michael, this post really has me thinking today and fired up. My questions to you is this: if you have knowledge of the Chuck Smith Affair, why don’t you post all of the evidence? I’m not challenging you, because I know you’re right 98% of the time. I believe you said you didn’t want to write about it because you were waiting for the right time (I could be wrong) but doesn’t go against everything you discuss in threads like this one? Shouldn’t everything come out into the open. I believe everyone needs to know this information so that they distance themselves from the Moses Model, and they can stop idolizing Chuck.

    In regards to this whole Caldwell thing, Pstr Mike’s comment is pretty much a mic drop.

    I don’t believe the affair happened that long ago, the regret and guilt would’ve eaten him up by now.

    Also, why isn’t everyone screaming from the rooftops about Saeed Abedini?!? Here is a guy that my kids to for at night and the images in our heads is that he was living in a dungeon in some remote village in Iran. But now we are hearing reports that he was Skyping with his wife and abusing her at the same time. Now I see him acting like a politician/televangelist (wearing all white)???

    This doesn’t add up, can someone tell me this is all a dream?

  19. pstrmike says:

    Your last paragraph expresses my concern as well. Perhaps in due time…

    Bob was either a great actor, or my discernment isn’t worth a damn, or he actually had a relationship with the Lord that I felt was evident in my brief exposures to him on a more personal level. I’ll stick with the latter for now.

    And you are right, the system of unaccountability and autonomy that encouraged avarice bears some responsibility for this. The system is as a whole is severely unhealthy. If I in any way aided in propping this up in Bob’s heart, I apologize to the family.

  20. J Keller says:

    Quick question – Steve Carr is another lead pastor but I am wondering if he is trained in psychology? A Christian psychologist may know better how to deal with the deep abandonment issues that may be at the core of who Bob is because of what he went through as a child. Whereas a pastor can pray and listen supportively but what other effective tools does he have to help Bob get the root healed? Also from what we’ve read about staying in house CC wise for counseling, how is that working for other cases like Bob Coy etc.?

  21. Duane Arnold says:

    From where I sit, at a distance, I can only hope there can be compassionate resolution in this matter for both the family and the church.

    I would, however, caution all to be circumspect. Many of us know from counseling that things are not always as they appear. I would very much encourage a discussion of the “model” of ministry that has led to this sort of situation, not only here but in many other places as well. As to the man, while we can see the results of his behavior, we cannot see his heart.

    Power, that is, unquestioned power, can have its own corrupting effect on even the best of men (women). We’ve all seen it. And from my experience it’s not limited to Calvary Chapels…

  22. JM says:

    pstrmike, I confess to being somewhat of a newbie on this site, so I do not know the nature of your relationship with Caldwell. However, the best thing for all–would be that he is a man of conscience. Then he could be accessed by the conviction of the Holy Spirit and, by default, all things will be done for God’s glory and the edification of the body. If his comfort at the expense of those he damaged remains a priority, we have our answer. His actions will do the speaking.

  23. John 20:29 says:

    someone above mentioned Chuck Smith’s behavior as scattering the seed of laxity in this regard… he may have overcome more than we know as i’m pretty sure this type of behavior goes much further back than Chuck Smith…
    if things that i overheard as a child – if my grandfather’s criticism of some in leadership in some factions of the very early California Pentecostal movement was valid…

    sadly the Faith then does have to take the hit… pray for all our pastors wherever they preach…
    perhaps all we pew sitters can do is pray for the good men to overcome and the wolves to be exposed and driven out

  24. John 20:29 says:

    # 21 – AMEN and AMEN again
    “As to the man, while we can see the results of his behavior, we cannot see his heart.” yes

  25. Scooter Jones says:

    John 20, unfortunately, hypocrisy is a systemic condition we all carry to one level or another.

    I read this haunting quote yesterday from one of Fredrick Douglass’ writings, it made cry.

    Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass Quotes
    …I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial and hypocritical Christianity of the land… I look upon it as the climax of all misnomers, the boldest of all frauds, and the grossest of all libels. Never was there a clearer case of ‘stealing the livery of the court of heaven to serve the devil in.’ I am filled with unutterable loathing when I contemplate the religious pomp and show, together with the horrible inconsistencies, which every where surround me. We have men-stealers for ministers, women-whippers for missionaries, and cradle-plunderers for church members. The man who wields the blood-clotted cowskin during the week fills the pulpit on Sunday, and claims to be a minister of the meek and lowly Jesus. . . . The slave auctioneer’s bell and the church-going bell chime in with each other, and the bitter cries of the heart-broken slave are drowned in the religious shouts of his pious master. Revivals of religion and revivals in the slave-trade go hand in hand together. The slave prison and the church stand near each other. The clanking of fetters and the rattling of chains in the prison, and the pious psalm and solemn prayer in the church, may be heard at the same time. The dealers in the bodies of men erect their stand in the presence of the pulpit, and they mutually help each other. The dealer gives his blood-stained gold to support the pulpit, and the pulpit, in return, covers his infernal business with the garb of Christianity. Here we have religion and robbery the allies of each other—devils dressed in angels’ robes, and hell presenting the semblance of paradise.

  26. ( |o )====::: says:

    Scooter Jones,

    Wow, just wow.

    Thank you for posting that.

  27. Scooter Jones says:

    You are welcome, guitar man.

  28. pstrmike says:

    I doubt he would know me by name.

  29. John 20:29 says:

    Scooter J. @ 24 – yes, Douglas was eloquent in holding our feet to the fire… our hearts are deceitful and wicked
    but we have hope and we have a way out…
    long before we saw the grace of God in Christ Jesus He was instructing us… if we’d listen
    Jeremiah 17:7-9 comes to mind

  30. JM says:

    #28, pstrmike,

    Please forgive what may have been an assumption on my part. Being somewhat new, sometimes I think I missed something. BTW–genuinely hope you are right about pastor Bob.

  31. Anon68 says:

    For Luke: Gradually, over months and years, there can be a new normal, but trust might never fully return and I’m not really sure it should after this sort of long lived and particularly deceptive betrayal. Your dad needs to be willing to be mistrusted, possibly for the rest of his days. He needs to be humble enough to live with ongoing scrutiny of his whereabouts and intentions and not be impatient and angry when your mom has misgivings. If he can’t handle the of consequences of his deception, then your mom will probably be better off walking away.

  32. pstrmike says:

    no harm, no foul. Peace.

  33. JM says:

    Very kind, pstrmike. Back at ya.

  34. J Keller says:

    Duane Arnold @21

    “Power, that is, unquestioned power, can have its own corrupting effect on even the best of men (women). We’ve all seen it. And from my experience it’s not limited to Calvary Chapels…”

    From my experience too, and others of us who live in the Treasure Valley. The Moses model church across town (a non-denominational non-Calvary church) taught us that it is indeed not limited to Calvary churches. When we came to CCB after finally jumping ship from our former church where we served many years, Calvary felt like a refuge from the authoritarian dictatorship we came from. Over time realized the difference was in style only. It was really disappointing for a time, but we now know it was just part of our school.

  35. Duane Arnold says:


    I’ve seen it in Anglican, Roman Catholic, Methodist and even Presbyterian churches. Boards and elders simply “give way” to a successful pastor and the accumulation of power begins. Different polities, different styles, but the same result. Success becomes the “coin of the realm” in such transaction…

  36. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    This is one good thing about a “real” congregation led church. The pastor gets one vote and no access to the check book. He can have a church credit card for incidentals and taking people to lunch.

    On our organizational chart, the pastor is 4th on the flow.

    This is all on the “business” end of the church – yes, even the left hand kingdom wrapped inthe church – but as far as word and sacrament, he pastor has full control.


  37. London says:

    It is really important to know you had nothing to do with this and you have nothing to apologize for it explain. This is not your fault.

    I’m sorry for what has happened in your family. Please take care of yourself and don’t take on his mistake as your own


  38. London says:

    Also, you owe no one an explain atom for his you and your family are trying to heal. It’s a confusing time and I’m sure you are all doing the very best you can to get through what is a very disorienting time.

  39. Judy says:

    Luke: I am so sorry your family has suffered this and my heart goes out to your mother who has to be suffering terribly under the deceit and lies and manipulation that was played on her. Having suffered in a very similar situation, I can attest that God is able to restore trust in a marriage when both are ready, if they are ready, if the guilty partner has repented and begun a real change in their life, and if the injured party is able to get past the betrayal and is able to let go of the past and forgive. It is a long, tough, painful road and I am not sure anyone understands it except those who have walked it. I will pray for your mother and your family and that your parents may be able to come before the Lord in truth and allow Him to take hold of them and their relationship and their identities and change hearts and behaviors so they please him. It’s possible. In the flesh, I’m not so sure it is possible, but in the spirit, it is very possible but it takes time. Blessings on you, Luke, and your mother. This is an outrageous and shocking situation to find yourself in.

  40. Paige says:

    Amen Judy, #39.

  41. JM says:


    I am with Paige.
    You put things in just the right way.

  42. SMiller says:

    I’m so glad you posted this thread Micheal! Your comments have made the most sense and have a wisdom that reaches beyond just emotional reactions which we so appreciate!
    Wisdom will reach beyond the now and look into the future of what fruit will come from all of this.

    Two separate issues are going on here that need to be separated — their personal family and the church family. It sounds like the first is getting care and counseling. I’m sure more will come out that is not known yet.

    Covenant Life Church -a huge mega church in Washington, D.C. went through a huge crisis that we can learn from. Joshua Harris -well known author as well as newly minted Senior Pastor was also caught off guard when he had to lead them through a crisis of a child sex abuse scandal and cover up that happened before his watch. He also was personally groomed and mentored by CJ Mahaney. He even lived in his home as he was being trained.

    He was thrown into the deep end of being a Pastor at a young age and having to handle media and a church body in crisis. They would have minimized it – but the press in D.C. wouldn’t allow it to go unnoticed. He is now attending Theology School in Canada admitting he was not equipped, or trained to lead.

    Could this be fruit of allowing the Senior Pastor to choose who they want to take their place while never really leaving? I feel sorry for the young pastors who are not given the ‘red file’ on what to do.

    One thing Sovereign Grace Survivors Blog was excellent at was separating and clarifying the difference between the responsibility of the new Senior Pastor who had not caused the crisis and CJ Mahaney the leader who actually was a part of the scandal was. That is the difference that needs to be discussed.

    They also had the families of the victims still attending there. Joshua was thrown into the deep end. CJ suddenly moved the ministry headquarters to Lexington Kentucky and began again. Joshua and his family left for Canada and the church members were left to recover.

    They are in the news again this week because the new pastor they chose from South Africa PJ Smythe is in the news because of the abuse his own father -John Smythe committed in Zimbabwe at a Christian Camp. Five criminal injury counts to boys who attended there. It is horrific to read.

    They are dealing with this again – a second wave! So the ripple effect can be unreal if it is not dealt with. In their area it’s The Washington Post and New York Times who leave no stone unturned and they get down to the root by interviewing every person.

    You have to wonder – is the Lord cleaning house throughout the land? Will he use the press to get the story out? We know people who attend there and wonder how many more storms will they go through before they look at what happened?

  43. JM says:

    S Miller,

    Thank you for your post. It has been most helpful.

  44. SMiller says:

    Thank you JM – I appreciate that! It takes a lot of me to post these stories or comments but when you feel led to do it you know the Lord is trying to say something and swing this thread over to another angle. I believe His heart is aching for this congregation who still doesn’t realize what truck just hit them and where it might lead.

    In HIs love He wants to get their attention – things might change!

  45. Michael says:

    Here is the consistent error in thinking that must be addressed.

    Quit waiting or expecting these organizations to change.

    They are not going to do so.

    You change.

    When enough of you change and demand fidelity to biblical ethics then and only then will you see change.

  46. Mom of 2 says:

    There is much to be said but I’ll be frank, as a believer and fellow church goer at Calvary Boise, I’m saddened by the vast amount of slander on this blog as a whole by people completely unrelated to the issue in Boise. With that being said, I do find it acceptable that Pastor Bob is in a different place seeking counsel, Boise may seem like a big place to outsiders but it is in fact a very small place and we honestly may not have the counsel needed for this situation. I respect Luke for speaking out on his family’s behalf and look forward to how God will use this situation for the good. We love the Caldwell family, and as part of God’s people, we love others. Calvary Boise is moving forward and it’s so fulfilling for my little family to see how God uses broken vessels.

  47. Michael says:

    Mom of 2,

    I’ve seen no slander on this blog.

    You also need to understand that Caldwell’s ministry went beyond Boise and this has ramifications for a great many people.

  48. drew says:


    Michael that word perfectly encapsulates my realization of what we let go wrong at CCB. We let, and supported, Bob in a life of privilege that we left unchecked.

    Instead of viewing Bob as a fallible and sinful man just like the rest of us we looked to Bob as somebody we could trust. We let him live a life most of the congregation couldn’t. We applauded and lived vicariously through his missions work and success and some even through is family. We gave money and time cheerfully. Those who did get to travel to India with Bob felt privileged and special.

    We invited people to CCB because our pastor was chill and “wasn’t like those other guys”.

    But we were wrong.

    Bob is just like those other guys… in fact, Bob is just like us.

    Bob is a sinful and corruptible man and as a church body, we failed to demand the accountability that we should have from a sinful man.

    I am a sinful and corruptible man.

    Tucker is a sinful and corruptible man.

    Everyone who serves at CCB is sinful and corruptible.

    I am saddened by Bob’s affair and the damage it has done to the family and legacy he worked so hard to build. But I am pissed off and angry that we gave Bob the privilege of being different than everyone who sat in those chairs on Sunday.

    As a result instead of praying for healing, I’m left here asking, “What else did we let Bob get away with?”

  49. Michael says:


    I hope everyone reads your comment…because you nailed it.

  50. J Keller says:

    I wonder if there is a widget that keeps track of how many times the word slander or gossip is used in a comment on a Christian Watchdog blog to shame people into silence?

  51. Disillusioned says:

    Good luck with that here. Lol

    Also, it’s not slander if it’s true.

    (I wanted to go on a rant here about how anything is “gossip ” or “slander ” if it exposes the leadership to be the sinners they, of course, are.)

  52. John 20:29 says:

    re: J Keller’s #50… on my iMac i can ‘select all’ from my drop down menu and then do a word search… for instance on this thread, to date, the word “slander” has been used 5 times (6 counting this post) and ‘gossip,’ 2 times… 🙂

  53. John 20:29 says:

    speaking of gossip and slander, would it be easier to think of things we know or think we do, but didn’t witness as hearsay? for instance, i ‘know’ things that i didn’t witness because i heard the report from people who have proven themselves to not gossip or slander -ever… but, since, i’m repeating it to someone who doesn’t know how truthful i am… maybe at that point it does turn into gossip? hmmm …. thinking….

  54. Hannah says:

    When the ” common folks” have these issues to deal with, they don’t have the luxury of three weeks off to go anywhere.
    They have to keep working their 9 to 5, and try to hold onto their jobs, families, etc and still pay the bills. I have personally witnessed people falling apart over this situation. No one is there to tell them to take as much time as they need to straighten out their family issues and come back to their lives, expecting a job when they return.

    Drew is right..the privelege is theirs.
    This is not reality for anyone but them.

  55. J Keller says:

    John 29

    @52 oh good to know! I was just thinking what a clever widget that would be. Then the next typical shame commenter could be greeted with “Welcome to XXX blog – you are the 33rd person this week who has misquoted the Bible in reference to the word slander. Please go read #3 in the FAQ section for further enlightenment” or something like that.

  56. J Keller says:

    Hannah @54

    And none of the common folk have access to tithe and offering money to pay for the luxury either.

  57. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    drew, “But I am pissed off and angry that we gave Bob the privilege of being different than everyone who sat in those chairs on Sunday. ”

    Unionize the congregation and make demands that the bosses give you guys a say.

  58. J Keller says:

    S Miller @44

    Careful there, if you express too much concern for CCB they may invite you to church? (like I was invited in the other thread when I expressed concerned and was told if I cared so much I should come to church and see for myself)

    While we are on the subject of caring and expressing concern for other Christians even those we aren’t in relationship with:
    What is so bad about caring for the welfare of others in the body of Christ and having an opinion about the direction the church is heading? Why is it considered divisive to mention that It appears that leaders may be trying to cover things up or in some cases work the system to their advantage at the expense of the people?

    It is completely possible to be sympathetic for the Caldwell family and pray for them and still speak to the equally important issue of what has happened to the church body on Auto Drive. Just because our concern isn’t framed in the typical acceptable rhetoric doesn’t mean it’s not compassion.

    Yes, we do care, because CCB is a prominent church in our city and we know many people in and outside the church will be affected by what Bob did and how all of this is handled. Beyond that, we care about the church at large and the direction it’s going. More importantly, Jesus cares about the people in each church and because we have the Holy Spirit within us, that gives us more than enough reason to care.

    It’s similar to how we as Americans care about the state our country is in. We all have a vote and a vested interest in what’s going on in our nation and it’s leadership. Most Americans are extremely opinionated on anything political. So why should it be any different with the body of Christ especially at the local level. How much more should we be concerned for the family we were born into when we received Christ. Maybe if parishioners truly had a say and a vote in churches like we do in politics, it wouldn’t be considered gossip and slander to discuss topics that are trending in the church. It would be just another day discussing current events.

  59. J Keller says:

    Michael @45

    We realize that these organizations are beyond the ability to change because business as usual is working well for those in charge so they have no incentive to change. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t talk about it and expose it.

    You are right, we each need to change. Maybe if enough of us speak up it will eventually sink in, one person at a time, that the only thing that will garner attention is voting with your checkbook or with your feet. When the numbers get smaller all sorts of changes take place out of necessity.

    As long as people continue to enable these systems nothing will change for them. It’s when we wake up and realize we do have a choice and a say, that’s change within can begin.

  60. Xenia says:

    One way to change: Ask yourself why you were attracted to churches like CC Boise and its pastor in the first place.

  61. CTruth says:

    I find it strange that Bob’s children picked the counselors for him. Having zero experience in overcoming the issues of addiction and an extramarital affair, what was the criteria for them to make the judgment call for the perfect counselors? This is not a condemnation, rather an obvious, reasonable observation. This family and the whole church has been manipulated for some 40 years. Will they recognize it from now on without being counseled themselves? What methods of manipulation are they susceptible to, because it has been going on all their lives? Addicts mess with your minds to get what they want. That won’t stop because Bob got caught. Just ask all the former pastors and elders who have confronted him on various issues and been tossed aside over the years. I will continue to pray that the family and church wake up and locate sound counseling.

  62. J Keller says:

    Xenia @60

    I agree with you. We were drawn to that type of church and pastor because we are products of our particular brand of Christian Community.

    The deeper part of the question for us has been why did we stay even when we were seeing and experiencing the dysfunction. We have had to come to terms with what kind of hole it was filling and why it was working for us even when it wasn’t.

    Christians are good at quoting scripture to each other to try to control behavior and certain leader types are really good at manipulating their followers into thinking God will not be happy if you walk away from them. It’s as if leaving a church is walking away from God.

    What we discovered when we walked away was that Jesus did not leave us and we can continue a relationship with Him outside the walls of our former church. We also found out we needed to look honestly at why we were there and become educated in how to avoid the same pitfalls so not to find ourselves in a similar situation.

  63. BillB says:

    I left CCB and stopped going to church all together over 25 years ago. Best decision I ever made.

  64. There is Hope in Him says:

    J Keller #58,

    I am so thankful that Jesus died for my sins and despite my sinful nature He still loves me, as he loves those at CCB too. People are not perfect He is and He can restore and heal and move mountains. Yes, I did invite you to visit CCB, do you remember why, it was because you were making accusations/statements that were not true and I invited you to visit to see what God is doing and see the transparency that is present. CCB is not for everyone, it is important to fellowship where the Lord lead you. I have read all the posts and there are so many voices of concern, anger, frustration, hope, encouragement and I appreciate John 20:29 #52 & #53’s thoughts as many others. I just wonder why you present yourself so arrogant and judgmental, maybe take a step back and realize you have harsh words and I sure wish I could hear compassion instead. Take what you want from here and I know you will twist what I have said and put me in my place, thats okay I know where I stand and I am at complete peace and humbled by God’s grace.

  65. J Keller says:

    Hi BillyB – hope all is well with you!

    Hope – I don’t know why you think what I’ve been saying is arrogance. But you don’t know why I have been saying what I’m saying either so that makes us even my sister. My tongue and cheek reference to your invite isn’t smirky it’s more winky like
    ? not ?

  66. Sigmund says:

    MLD – would you say your pastor is “first among equals”, habiting the fourth spot down on the flow chart? Looking for a new church, having just had the cognitive dissonance CC’d out of me.

  67. Siggy says:


    In all fairness, when the common folks have these issues, they do have the reasonable expectation that it will be kept mostly private. Having such a platform as any CC means every Pastoral sin brought to light causes divisions and hurt congregations.

    But as for my experience in CC, I am done done done. Moses model is a misnomer. Moses was the most humble of all men. He had help, he trained up a Joshua and Caleb. These pastors by and large are not humble and are not even required to find full time assistance. But they are seemingly required to keep the music ministry young and hip.
    CGN and CCA may very well be buried with the celebs it produced.

  68. Siggy says:

    Made a blanket statement about CC humility that requires modification. It SEEMS as if, by and large, these Cc Pastors are not humble men. I do not know all of them. Just one. The rest is hear-say.

  69. BillB says:

    To J. Keller – #65 Your powers of perception and memory far exceed mine. I don’t wish to clog up the thread playing ‘old home week’ but I need a little help remembering if we attended CCB at the same time.
    Please, if you care to, shoot me a note so we can connect….oh, and, I have never been better! Thanks.

    To Michael; My sincere apologies for such an off topic post…hope you understand. TY.

  70. J Keller says:

    There is Hope in Him @64

    Your last sentence: “Take what you want from here and I know you will twist what I have said and put me in my place, thats okay I know where I stand and I am at complete peace and humbled by God’s grace.”

    I realize there is nothing I can say to you now in my defense because you have already set it up with your statement that I will be twisting your words. That seems passive aggressive to me. Your whole comment does, but you may have not intended it that way. Only you and the Holy Spirit know what your intensions were in writing it.

    Likewise, the intent of my words can be interpreted in more than one way. I don’t mean for my questions and observations to be arrogant and harsh. Facing reality can be harsh and unpleasant at times. We all feel twitchy when presented with questions that probe us to look deeper at what’s happening around us. So I guess it can appear harsh to some when certain observations are made. But I don’t feel to apologize for my writing style although I can certainly hone it as a skill and pray for wisdom when to speak and when to wait.

  71. J Keller says:

    BillB – will do!

  72. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Sigmund, I missed this from this morning
    “MLD – would you say your pastor is “first among equals”, habiting the fourth spot down on the flow chart?”

    I don’t know what the 1st among equals would be – we are all equal.
    The chart goes like this
    The Lord Jesus Christ
    The Congregation
    The Board
    The Pastor

    Does that help?

  73. Hannah says:


    How long was this situation kept private? 13 years?

    I was trying to point out the toll this would take on ones health, when one can’t take extended periods of rest and counseling.

    These men can just go away, and hibernate somewhere and recharge.
    They don’t gave to worry about continuing to provide for their family, pay their bills, and hold onto a job.

    BTW, what ever happened to the CC castle and who owns it?

  74. Michael says:

    It’s owned by Calvary Costa Mesa

  75. Siegfried says:

    You have a point, especially in Driscoll.

  76. SMiller says:

    #45 MIchael
    I want to clarify why I keep feeling led to post the Joshua Harris story from the Reformed group. I believe it is a directional signal that this same pattern could take place in the future at this church in Boise or any other large church. We learn best from history – this is actually happening right now.

    It is a sense I get over and over that ‘hey you might want to look at this situation.’
    Can we learn from other groups? I hope so. Covenant Life in Maryland quickly put the past behind them and hired a new Senior Pastor who had said the slate is wiped clean from the past, it was dealt with and this was a new chapter. The people attending there knew it wasn’t dealt with. Their leaders moved away! The hurt wasn’t dealt with. Nothing was cleaned out.

    When I wrote could it be the Lord is cleaning house? I was not believing the same group that created or enabled the mess had the ability to clean it out. Even with a new leader at the top. I am saying that could it be the Lord is cleaning out the organizations from the inside out? I have written extensively on this and other blogs and 2 of your threads. I do not think they are trying to bring change but to right the ship they have. “We have containment” is their statement.

    I have been a leader and on staff at a church and know how hard that will actually be if you allow the people to become part of the process. The reason it is not done and morphs into a One Leader system of government or polity is that it slows down the process of getting things done. You can’t suddenly just open a Thrift Shop — move a coffee shop that is in the red from one location to another one. People will ask to see the financials and won’t get the ‘big picture’ or the ‘vision of the house’ the Leader is trying to personally accomplish.

    I don’t know what the Lord is doing but when you are seeing things being cleaned out from the East Coast to the West – you know there is change up ahead that none of us may be able to see or predict. It is a challenge to write what I sense is on the way but I do believe change is here to stay.

  77. Michael says:


    I’m familiar with the SGM situation.
    I helped set up one of the big SGM blogs back in the day.

    Here is my point and I’ll repeat it until I pass out.
    Change in these organizations can only come when forced from the bottom up.

    As long as there are asses in the seats and money in the bank they will not be accountable in real ways.

    I learned long ago that I have no idea what God is doing.

  78. Siegfried says:


    That helps immensely. Thank you.

  79. SMiller says:

    #77 Michael — I don’t know how else to say it till I pass out as well and have exhausted all my Exhibits A to Z — I agree 100 percent! You know that feeling when you are trying to tell someone -don’t fight me – I’m in agreement!

    So glad to know you helped set up one of their blogs as it took a truckload of Christians to talk and try to express what happened in their Reformed Church Movement. It was fascinating reading and a challenge.

  80. SMiller says:

    One thought that always bears discussing in person or on a blog: when Christians in a church write or talk about their leaders, or a situation such as this – they often refer to their first names as in Bob – Luke, Tucker. They are referring to them as public figures – leadership figures. We refer to Obama, Trump and HIliary the same way.

    This does not mean people are attacking them as individuals because you don’t have a personal relationship with them any more than your leaders in Washington, D.C. As citizens of the land we do feel we have the right to freely discuss our leaders by name and hold them accountable for their actions that do affect us as Americans.

    It helps to keep this fact in mind as you read or write online. Are they a public figure – a leader – if so they are held up to this level of discussion and scrutiny much in the same way we expect from any other leader in a company or public service.

  81. JM says:


    Do you happen to know just how many properties CCCM owns?

  82. oncelaw says:

    Once again I find myself with much to say and I know that I will not succeed in getting all of my thoughts down here.

    As I stated on the initial thread regarding the disclosure of Bob’s adultery, I attended CCB. I have also lived through a very painful betrayal by my husband so I know something of what Cathy Caldwell is going through. I am extremely grateful that my husband and I were able to walk through our dark valley in private with the help of amazing counselors. Bob and Cathy do not have that opportunity for privacy.

    I disagree with the idea that Bob is taking advantage of “privilege” by going out of state for counseling. As someone else stated, Boise is not that big of a place and Bob is fairly well-known. That in itself creates 2 unique challenges that I can think of: 1) Any time he goes out in public there is a good chance he will be recognized. I am going to assume that he is truly repentant. Healing will not come by being publically shamed. It will come through introspection, guidance (counseling) and the Holy Spirit working in him. In my opinion, that all needs to happen in private. 2) Because of Bob’s high profile in the Christian community I can imagine other pastors and counselors might be a bit intimidated at the prospect of counseling him. Maybe not, but it’s possible.

    We don’t know (nor do we need to know) Cathy’s feelings about anything. It may be that it was in her best interest to have Bob out of the picture completely for now.

    Bob has broken a sacred trust. In my opinion no one who is in a leadership position and commits adultery should ever again be in any type of leadership. There is no indication that Bob aspires to any sort of future leadership role. In fact, Luke states that he is not. I think we should accept that as fact and allow the family to heal privately. IF in the future Bob attempted some sort of “come back” then it would be appropriate for people to protest loudly, but given that this is all fresh and that the current indication is that Bob has no such intention I do not see any good coming from trashing Bob.

  83. J Keller says:

    Oncelaw @82

    You sound like an intelligent person and my first instinct is to defer to your painful experience, but have you read and thoughtfully considered what people are saying in the other comments on this thread? For instance did you even read #80 where S Miller explains why talking about a public figure is actually holding him up to a level of scrutiny because of the office he holds?

    If you did, how can you then sum up everything discussed here as just trashing Bob?

    The reason you and your husband went through your pain privately is because you didn’t choose to be a public figure or there was a lack of opportunity to be one. The fruit of that decision or lack of opportunity is the measure of privacy you deserve. The fruit of Bob’s decision to be a public figure and benefit from it (and then basically abuse it by lying to the public for 13 years) is that he is discussed on a public forum.

    Real issues are being discussed here with earnest questions asked so it’s not just a big gossipfest.

    I would like to challenge the people of CCB to put your shoulders to the plow and do your homework. Educate yourself in the discussion at hand and then feel free to add to it. Don’t just stop at this blog but investigate further. Research what others here have found out – look at what is fact and what is supposition – then decide for yourself what to believe about the organization you are in.

  84. SMiller says:

    Beautifully stated JKeller. I’ve never seen anyone sum it up better than you just did. I love your statement “the fruit of that decision or lack of opportunity is the measure of privacy you deserve.”

    The Boundaries book – a staple of Christian Counselors explains the difference between forgiveness and restoration. They are actually two different stages especially in a long term deception and public trust such as this situation.

    I find it hard to believe people would think it is wise to place trust in what someone says who has proven they deceived a congregation for 14 years.

    The list of Pastors who have returned to the pulpit after an affair or scandal is unfortunately long: Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, Eddie Long just to name a few. Who else do you know? Many were quoted publicly saying they would never return. They even wrote books about it —“I Was Wrong” by Jim Bakker.

  85. Alice says:

    Some of you have started wondering why those of us that attend CCB have become so quiet. I can only speak for myself and my own experience. I have attended every Sunday since the December 18 announcement, as well as a few Wednesdays. I have never once heard any of the pastoral staff suggest that congregants should not talk about or discuss what has happened. Nor have I heard any other employees or volunteers make that suggestion. In fact, once I finally opened my mouth about it to another volunteer or employee, I have been amazed at how open and willing people are to talk about it. I don’t think a single Sunday has gone by when it hasn’t been addressed from the pulpit in some way.

    For the last two Sundays they have made the announcement that we will be having an annual church assembly starting in May. Yes, as was previously posted here, they wanted to do this in February, but this process is taking some time. They are going over the bylaws and financials with a fine tooth comb. Their goal is to present those things and a picture of our church government, all in full detail at the May assembly, open to feedback. They desire transparency.

    We are heartbroken, but we are healing, and we are taking this opportunity to make some wonderful, healthy changes at CCB. I know the pastoral staff has a new accountability system, where they will be reporting and checking in with each other regularly, holding each other to a practical standard. Two weeks ago the congregation was presented with the names of two men that are being considered for elder positions. They are asking for feedback and opinions from the congregation to help them make those decisions. We’ve attended there about a decade and have never seen anything like this. I cried tears of joy that Sunday morning.

    I would encourage anyone from our congregation to contact any of the pastors and meet with them. I was told that Tucker has made a commitment that he wants to meet with anyone who has questions, feedback, or needs comfort. He is humbled, and he is truly working as the chief servant of our congregation. He has no grandiose ideas of being the idol of this church. He loves Jesus, and he only wants to care for this flock as long as God wants him here. He is the first one to bring up the Moses Model, and he is adamant that it’s not going to be that way at CCB.

    So, speaking for myself, I love the extended Caldwell family. It is a blessing to me that Luke wrote what he wrote, and it helps settle the numerous nagging questions I had. Part of why I have been silent is that I knew in my heart that some of the family must be reading this blog. It tears me apart to think that something I might write here might hurt one of them. Of course I am still hurt and angry with Bob about what has happened. But because our church is doing so many things right, many of us are starting to heal and looking forward optimistically.

    I am really proud of the hard work that our pastors are doing to change our course. I feel more involved and a closer part of that flock than I ever have, because of the changes that have already started. If I could do anything it would be to take the pain away from Cathy, her children, and her grandchildren. Every Sunday I miss seeing them. Every Sunday that is the one sadness that I have. I hope they know how much they are loved and missed! I still don’t quite know how to feel about Bob. I do know that once I realize that some of them must be reading this blog, my heart turned more toward caring for them and healing our church than needing to vent.

  86. Scooter Jones says:

    Alice, that’s a thoughtful and empathetic post. You sound much more at peace. Lord bless you.

  87. Selah says:

    Alice, your love is evident in your honest words, and it’s an oasis. It isn’t an easy thing, to love in the midst of hurt. But it makes the verse, “they’ll know you are Christians by your love for one another” that much more powerful. Thank you for sharing, and may God heal you and your church and everyone who has been torn apart by this. May He give you grace for one another and work this together for His good for you, your leadership, the Caldwells, and all the ministries and orphans your church supports. It’s an amazing body and I pray for peace for you all.

  88. J Keller says:

    Reading an article on Relevant Magazine called “9 Big Myths About Forgiveness” found in Michael’s Linkathon! post today. The whole article is good and worth the read so I would encourage you to click over and read – but thought to copy one of the points here in hopes it is helpful for someone:

    Myth: Forgiveness and reconciliation are the same thing.
    Truth: Forgiveness and reconciliation are very different things.

    Ultimately, reconciliation is God’s gift to broken relationships where everyone involved has forgiven themselves and forgiven others. Reconciliation can take time, however—a long time. Patience is essential. Reconciliation will move you forward, not backward to the “way it used to be.” Sadly, you can’t ever restore the past; you can only move forward. You are both (or all) different people, hence whatever relationship you reforge will be different.

    Sometimes reconciliation is based upon someone’s life showing that they have changed. Since true forgiveness makes reconciliation possible, we cannot rush or short-circuit the forgiveness process. If so, we derail our hopes and dreams for a reconciled relationship in the future.

    And if we’re honest, there are times when reconciliation doesn’t always work out, such as cases of abuse where you are not safe. Cases where the person has not proven themselves trustworthy. Cases where the best thing for someone involved is just moving on. Being married to a domestic violence prosecutor for five-and-a-half years ruined me on the subject of unhealthy and unsafe reconciliation. I cannot ignore the challenges on this issue. And I think this is why I’m so passionate about how different and distinct forgiveness and reconciliation are from each other.

    Reconciliation requires something from both people and that may mean that the “other” person never gets there. Maybe you are the person who was hurt and you cannot ever or should not ever trust the person who hurt you again. Maybe you are the person who did the wrong and you desperately wish you could undo it, but you can’t. You believe you have changed, but the other person is not having it. Forgiveness without reconciliation can be incredibly tough, but it is the experience many of us will encounter.


  89. CTruth says:

    So what is to happen now? Does this all just simmer down and everyone gets back to what they were doing before? When we were so rudely interrupted 2 weeks before celebrating the birth of our Savior, a very Christian celebration, by a tyrants obvious and outrageous self indulgence, we became forever scared emotionally.

    Those of us who had to walk away from the friends and fellowship we had enjoyed at CC Boise, because those folks were trained to consider us jaded, divisive, unforgiving, backsliders, how will we get resolution? Will Bob do an apology tour to make restitution for his jaded, malicious, and intentional slandering of every single one of us? Will he admit premeditated wrong doing and apologize to each of us? That is unrealistic because there are hundreds upon hundreds of us.

    I have forgiven Bob. Not because I want to. I don’t. I do not have that kind of compassion within me. So, as do all Christians, I must receive compassion from my Savior, Jesus Christ, by God’s Holy Spirit, to be able to forgive Bob. But what now? Do I hope for a return to the way it was before I knew? That, too, is unrealistic. That would be considered in most circles as naive and foolish. Unfortunately, if you are talking to Christians, that is what many try to do. Most think that forgiveness entails acting as though the malicious, premeditated wrong doing never occurred. That is the training we have received. Bible verses are distorted and misappropriated resulting in kind, naive people being trashed by the malicious.

    We hear the kind praising the former works of the malicious. The kind defend the malicious from the open questioning of others. Their training is what the malicious are counting on. He even say so during the time he is in charge. Saying things like, ” I do this now to establish credibility now, so I can point it out when needed in the future”. The malicious are using issues and events to bond the kind to themselves. That is so they can perpetrate their lies right in front of the kind, and the kind will buckle under the pressure of the malicious, even when the kind sense that this is not right. The term for this process is referred to as emotional grooming. The malicious can then determine who they can count on to do what is needed.

    This all sounds so seedy and seamy. How can it possibly be what has happened at CC Boise? Anyone who came on staff at CC Boise was probably given the talk by Bob about “the seamy underbelly of the church”. It was his explanation for why the new staff member needed to be able to accept situations that seemed unacceptable.

    By now, the kind are so angry at me for pointing any of this out, they may have stopped reading. I implore you to read on. This mess at CC Boise, which is far far greater than the revealed sexual infidelity by Bob, is being exposed so that God can get in and show each of us what our part is in it.

    Don’t be naive any longer. Let God be God in this situation. Be willing to examine every area of your belief system to have God show you the damaged areas, and let God’s provision provide the repair. That may very well mean a counselor with a psychology degree. It may also mean examining the church you have been accustomed to. You may have to learn how to be assertive in examining family systems and church systems that you are involved in. You may have to change many, many beliefs and things that you had previously been just fine with. Just don’t do it without God’s Holy Spirit, or without creating a community of counselors that love God’s truth.

    Let God be true, and every man a liar.

  90. Oncelaw says:


    I for one will not be returning to CCB. I actually considered it just because I don’t know what to do. My husband talked me out of it.

    I actually AM talking with a professional counselor also. Sadly, Bob Caldwell seems to have been the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back for me; I’m finding it nearly impossible to trust ANYONE.

    I do wonder sometimes if God is dismantling the entire American church. It sure seems to need dismantling! But the question that I cannot answer is “What do we do now?” I miss church, and yet I want deeper, more meaningful relationships than I had at church.

    The person I always looked to for advice, my late mother, would I know tell me “You just need to pray”. And so I do.

  91. Disillusioned says:

    Once law,
    Trust. Such a huge issue. I, too, had mine shattered by one calling himself pastor. What I’m finding is that there’s nothing wrong with feeling betrayed when YOU’VE ACTUALLY BEEN betrayed. I hope your counselor helps you see that.
    To move forward, only time will help you sort out the many confusing aspects of what you’re living through. I don’t know about you, but in our (completely different) situation, we were emotionally and spiritually abused for the sole selfish purposes of the pastor and his wife. I don’t see what you’re dealing with as much different, in that you’ve been groomed (great insight above, CTruth and others) to feel like this is somehow your fault!! Maybe not.

    What you need to do is be willing to be hurt again. The truth is that we open ourselves to deeper pain when we love. It has taken me over 4 years to be willing to love — and by extension– trust — anyone new. It’s a decision I consciously made, but was not ready before now to try again. I still don’t want to go to church , tho.

  92. BillB says:

    I am gonna make this short as possible because the details are not at all important.
    Last night I ran into Bob. We haven’t seen each other face to face since I can’t even remember. It was great seeing him and our visit was short. Here’s the thing I want to ask of people reading this; After our little visit ended and we went our separate ways, I wanted to kick myself for not telling Bob that he could call me any time for any reason. So…if you see him, tell him that Billy sez he’d love to get together any time…just to talk.

  93. Scooter Jones says:

    I’m not sure posting your telephone number on a blog is a good idea(?)

    Btw, what did you guys talk about? Your greenhouse tomatoes? Your bunions?

  94. J Keller says:

    Oncelaw @90

    We too have wondered if God is allowing some sort of dismantling of the American Church – of what it has become – at least a dismantling of the types of churches we were in. He seems to be cleaning house and exposing the sin and dishonesty that has been covered up, not only in CCB but in similar churches that have been built on a foundation that has no true checks and balance system in place, where one man can have access to the money while the board of elders has no real power to intervene when needed. Money equals opportunity for every good and deviant thing.

    The Lord knows what is going on in all of it. Who’s to say that people like us, who have decided we can’t thrive any longer in these kind of group gatherings, haven’t been called out of them for a reason? Not to make us the ‘new elite’ as my friend often says, but to seek God in a more organic and meaningful way, where our relationships are centered around Jesus rather than a pastor. However, it does create the challenge to find good biblical study that is balanced and helps us in our daily lives. Even so, that actually places the burden on our own shoulders to seek and study rather than let someone else do it for us. Concept. We didn’t realize how much we leaned on one man to do our thinking for us till he was no longer in front of us talking behind the podium every Sunday.

    If a person prays and asks God what to do, He will answer. He has done that for our little group, individually and together, and we have seen fruit from our study and prayer together. He will do the same for you.

  95. J Keller says:

    Disillusioned @91

    Amen to all you are saying – that feeling betrayed comes from being betrayed and it’s OK to feel those feelings; the betrayal was not our fault; that it takes time to sort it out so we should allow ourselves that time; that learning to love again is a decision to trust when one is ready.

    I think we need to allow the process of healing all the time necessary to truly be free to love and trust again. Each individual has a unique timetable on that so we don’t need to give in to the pressure from other people who impatiently chide to get over it already. We can be at peace knowing one size does not fit all in this.

    Meanwhile, we can trust the Lord through it all because He has never been known to betray our trust. He has a way of showing each one of us that He knows our hearts and needs. He will guide us to health in every area of our lives as we allow Him to lead.

  96. CTruth says:

    Sorry I wasn’t able to respond to you before now. I appreciate that JKeller and Disillusioned gave you wonderful comfort and counsel.

    I am sorry that you are part of the fall out from this situation. You are wise to get counseling. When I first left CC Boise a few years ago, I was lonely for the kind of fellowship I had become accustomed to. My good friends, who saw what was coming and graciously buoyed me up, pointed me back to Jesus for the comfort I needed. I went through the process I described in the post at comment #89. It took some time, because mourning what I had lost was a big part of the process of digging out the truth about the situation, and why I had allowed myself to be a part of it. It was arduous, frustrating, and sad. But God is faithful and patient. I have persevered, even when I openly said I didn’t want to continue the process. So I had some pity parties, God waited for me, and then he graciously picked me up and dusted me off, and I continued on. He is always closest, it seems, when we are in pain. I will continue to pray for your journey. I know that your joy and trust will return, but in a new and more mature way, as I have seen others say so on this blog. As a side note, I currently attend a tiny fellowship with my family, as I am not able to handle the trappings that seem to come with a large church. God Bless you. I would be happy to meet with you, if you think it would be beneficial to you.

  97. Oncelaw says:


    First, thanks to you and others who’ve taken the time to write compassionate responses.

    Second, I mostly read this on my phone, therefore cannot see the numbers associated with comments. It’s also fairly laborious scrolling up and down to respond directly to comments. My apologies therefore for my vague response.

    CTruth, I am interested in your “tiny fellowship”. I don’t know how to get in contact through this blog. I’m not entirely comfortable putting contact info here. ???

  98. J Keller says:

    Oncelaw – I know CTruth and would be glad to relay any messages for you till you can connect directly. I don’t mind posting my email address here since it is one I only use for blogging. Feel free to get in touch and I can forward your communication.
    (that is the number 0 not the letter)

  99. Matthew says:

    He was always a prick to me and it didnt take long for me to see through him. I attended CCB in college in the late 90s because my sister lived at the church and participated in their “Pure Word” recovery program. I was struggling with my sexuality at the time, and figured I could just pray away the gay by going there, but nothing happened. I told Randy Nurmi about my inclinations and he said my attraction to guys was due to a “root of bitterness” (whatever that means) Having grown up Lutheran, Calvary Chapel made me question whether I had a legitimate relationship with God. If it wasnt Calvary brand Christianity, it didnt count. Going to church there made me feel like I was cast in the Stepford Wives wearing a pair of uncomfortable shoes. Nobody questioned anything preached on the pulpit, and behavior norms were very well defined. If you talked about something off color, somebody would chastise you for it. I finally saw through Bobs BS when he sent my sister to do some mission work at a meth addicts house late at night. My 21 year old sister was put in danger from the story she told me. I thought Bob was a jerk for putting her in that situation and doubt he would have sent one of his precious daighters Katie or Sarah on a trip like that. After that I realized I didnt have to listen to him, or go to Calvary Chapel anymore, and that I could think for myself. More importantly I realized God loved me as a gay man, and that the Christ I knew that so many people questioned at CCB never left my side. It took many years to overcome the negativity I experienced there. I admit I was almost glad to hear he fell, except for Kathy. She was always cool. But I felt like his family was so “perfect” and put together, it was easy for them to be smug and uber christian because they never had to face any struggles like being gay. Well, now thats not the case.

  100. CTruth says:

    I am so sorry I haven’t checked back here to see your comments. I too am very careful about giving out personal info on a blog. I see that JKeller has graciously offered to get us in contact with each other through her email, so let’s use that way to communicate. I will send a message to that email address, then wait to here from you.
    God bless you

  101. CTruth says:

    Where does Bob Caldwell attend church now?

  102. Clown Hater says:

    Seriously, I don’t know where to begin. Decades of deceit. The Abedini debacle. The cabin in Garden Valley built with church funding still sitting in Bobs name. Picking a childhood friend as a replacement pastor with very little experience, to manage a body this big was strategic. I suppose Bob picked Tucker because of Tuckers loyalty to the Caldwell family and his idolization of Bob. Turns out Tucker is no puppet! This is so much more than a mistake. This is the fruit of a mans selfish nature to the extreme. In the words of his own staff, “Bob is an alpha wolf in a one wolf, wolf pack!’ I guess at the end of the day I have to call BS on the entire saga. If I had a dollar for every time I listened to Bob telling us about his drug dealing days because he was too busy (lazy) to prepare a message from the Word, I would be wealthy like Bob.
    This really has nothing to do with judging Bob. Bob is simply a narcissist and a coward. These generally go hand in hand. Sorry if that makes you feel just a little uncomfortable but that is the truth. Luke is still trying to down play the relationship. It was a 10 year plus affair with a married woman. Luke says, Bob continued in “Some form of an emotional relationship for many years after that.” That’s so ridiculous. You sound like a chip off the old block Luke. Damage control for your dad who is hiding in Garden Valley.

  103. Jakki Wright says:

    Gob bless you and your family. We all are human and unfortunately some have to deal with sin publicly. I’m praying for healing in your family, for your parents.

  104. Struggling says:

    I’m having a very difficult time with some very big challenges in what’s left of my life. I am questioning whether its even worth it anymore. I decided to reach out to God tonight. I decided to join a church. I’ve been very moved by pastor Bob years ago and went online to find the service hours. What I found was appalling. Not the mistakes he’s made, but the comments of the congregation. I was seeking help, but it is better to continue this journey alone, than be amongst judgement and ridicule.

  105. Annie says:

    Regardless of what has happened here, I was blessed beyond words by Pastor Bob’s teaching and I would like to have access to his archives. Are there any out there? The church site took them down unfortunately.

  106. Mike says:

    My wife and I left Calvary Chapel Boise when Bob left. We loved it there because Bob was so refreshing to listen to compared to the run of the mill pastors out there. It was only until today that we read about his confession of moral failure. Calvary Chapel Boise does not have a link to that announcement. Nothing we have searched for brings it up. It must have been removed from their website already. Can someone find it and post the link here?

  107. Michael says:

    It appears to have been removed by the church…we can’t fix that.

  108. Debby says:

    From what I read in an email we got from CCB (because we used to attend there) when Bob Caldwell stepped down, before the Affair was made public…it was he who had all of his his messages and writings removed from the churches website.

  109. lisa minelli says:

    Bob star C. was involved with the then imprisoned pastor’s wife. In order to cover that up, they came up with a phony 10-year-old affair.

  110. JM says:

    Lisa Minelli (…interesting pseudonym … )

    Are you talking about Naghmeh Abidini?

    …and, where did you come by this information, because it has never been alleged before?

  111. HH says:

    I work for Luke and his company Timber and Love. Because of his newest opportunity to be apart of a show on HGTV, he is asking that anything on the internet that does not pertain to this, to be removed. So today, I am asking for you to remove anything that has Luke Caldwell’s name. Thank you for understanding.

  112. Michael says:


    Thank you for understanding.

  113. CTruth says:

    HH @111,
    Why on earth are you cooperating with anyone requesting to “scrub” the internet of things that are true because it might harm their opportunity to make a buck. Outrageous. Same old antics that Bob Caldwell uses.
    Michael @112,
    Bravo. Let God be true and every man a liar

  114. Scooter Jones says:

    I find it hard to believe HH isn’t anything more than a troll.

  115. Michael says:

    Not a troll…seems that Luke has his own reality tv show now…

  116. robin says:

    Hey, nice try  ! However, the baby aborted in Switzerland is still crying.

  117. Janell Fincher says:

    Everyone who knows the story of David knows that God has Bob in His Hands. I pray for him and his family. The messages Bob gave still spoke the truth for God. What’s truely sad is we are to forgive one another and lift each other up in prayer, not rake someone’s life apart because of a sin they repented for. God Bless Bob and his family!!!

  118. JM says:


    It is good that you pray for Caldwell. He and his family surely need it. There should be no comments here negating that. David is a good example…. of sin’s consequences and true repentance. It should be studied because it should scare any pastor/leader who dares to do likewise.

    Could you please define true repentance using the Bible–not opinion. (Find the Biblical steps of true repentance and list them.) Then give an account of where Caldwell has fulfilled the Biblical definition as it applies to his congregation (first statement was lacking), the body of Christ, of which he chose to be a pastor over other pastors (CCCA) and to Christ the Sacrifice of whom he caused to be blasphemed by his actions.

    Secondly, how do you, Caldwell or anyone else justify being surprised at the Scriptural negativity pointed at him in light of what God says about pastors. “Not many [of you] should become teachers [self-constituted censors and reprovers of others], my brethren, for you know that we [teachers] will be judged by a higher standard and with greater severity [than other people].–Thus we assume the greater accountability and the more condemnation.” , James 3:1 (amp.).

    This is not a game.

  119. John 20:29 says:

    Over and over ignorance, and maybe pride, tries to compare theirs to David’s recorded sexual and homicidal sin – Just like David? Well…

    1- David and anyone else can repent and be forgiven when they do so… by God and fellow Believers … still the sin bears bitter fruit, if one is a child of God (not all of mankind qualifies)
    2- David was a soldier king of another era, not a pastor teacher of the Church age – there is a vast difference
    (BTW – Being a great communicator is not always, maybe not often, what qualifies a pastor)
    There is much New Testament teaching on responsibility and accountability…. sometimes I wonder if our grasp of the principle of grace – such a treasure – isn’t held way too loosely? is grace without limit? Dunno, don’t think so……..

  120. JM says:

    John 20:29


  121. John 20:29 says:

    JM – thank you … hope it is food for some thinking on, at least

  122. Jim says:

    Scrub a dub dub
    What about the ring in the tub
    Those who have been cheated or maligned to local authorities or just plain exluded from your raindear games. Good luck healing and know the limits of your success are directly related to your actions past and present.
    Bu bye

  123. kobuk says:

    Just discovered this blog group. Consider the following, all of you are familiar with it.
    Matthew 18:15; Matthew 7-15; 1 John 1:9; Galatians 6:1-2

    Has anyone commenting on this blog:
    – confronted Bob … alone … before bringing it to others?
    – removed the log/plank from your own eye first before attempting to remove the speck from your brother’s eye? (consequence of not doing so, says Jesus, you are classified as a hypocrite).
    – agreed they too are sinners?
    – see themselves as “spiritual” enough to be a part of the solution rather than the problem?

  124. Em says:

    kobuk, church leadership is not dealt with in the same way that one deals with an erring brother or sister in Christ… My suggestion would be to do some prayerful reading of Revelation’s letters to the seven churches.. Instruction to e applied down through time
    That said, there is nothing stopping Caldwell from confession, repentance and restoration to church fellowshio….

  125. Sad how so so many have brought the word Gossip!!! We who truly know God call it SHARING one to another!! Ppl need to cleanse there OWN mind 1st. Interesting cuz WE ALL FALL SHORT!! May God gave mercy on US ALL. ❤🙏

  126. Bill Derberg says:

    WOW, I am a 1000 X worse than Bob Caldwell and so are most of you. Is it bad, is it sad? YES! But don’t EVER think you aren’t immune to falling yourself! Sin is sin no matter what, and it only takes one sin in your life to send you to HELL, which ALL OF YOU deserve to go anyway!

  127. Michael says:

    Bill Derberg,

    Are you allowed to post without supervision?

    You might reconsider getting some help to make coherent thoughts…

  128. Frank Cardinale says:

    I attended pastor Caldwell’s church in the early 90’s. He is a good man and made a huge difference in my life through Jesus Christ.

    People make terrible mistakes in life. No one makes it througg this life without sin. I pray he is doing well. He is a good man. He helped me find Christ, and in doing so helped save my life.

  129. JIM says:


  130. Frank Cardinale says:

    Jesus is greater than our sin. We have the promise of forgiveness.

    Our Lord knows our hearts, and he well have the final word.

    God bless you all.

  131. TS says:

    Luke tell your dad to come to terms with constantly beating you with a belt… For being a kid and not living up to his standards… As he was kicking your dog over and over because it was afraid of fireworks… Then locking your dog in your mom’s car while it tore out the entire interior of the Saab…

  132. jeff nelson says:

    Wow. This is why Jesus died. Thank God He did, and He’s the only answer to our mess. Glad He finished everything (related to atonement) on the cross, and He will finish everything (related to restoration) when He returns. And When He Returns is a fitting song for all this.

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