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37 Responses

  1. AA says:

    So sad, The ravages of substance abuse. Alcohol or otherwise. I thank Jesus for saving me from that type of lifestyle. Praying for your friend.

  2. AA says:

    To be clear, I was in that type of lifestyle. If it wasn’t for Jesus I would probably be dead.

  3. Paige says:

    What a tragic story. So much loss and pain.

    I am a teetotaler and my opinion is that all alcohol is best avoided, if only for health reasons.
    Proverbs has much to say about the perils of drinking alcohol.
    I have lost a great deal in my own life via the alcoholism of loved ones, and now am observing the next generation being deceived in the same way. I hold my words as I know words don’t change anything. I pray

    I’m actually rather “phobic” about it, and cringe when I see Fb posts of believers going wine tasting or discussing theology over growlers. Life offers enough peril without additional avoidable risk.

  4. Disillusioned says:

    It’s funny that when one is in the midst of despair, things like grass growing through the crack doesn’t even register on the radar…

  5. Jean says:

    The interesting thing about Law preaching is that if the preacher gives his listeners a choice of application, his listeners often will choose the application that accuses them the least.

  6. Josh the Baptist says:

    Paige already posted my comment.

  7. JD says:

    Proverbs 24:20ff immediately comes to mind:

    I passed by the field of the sluggard
    And by the vineyard of the man lacking sense,
    And behold, it was completely overgrown with thistles;
    Its surface was covered with nettles,
    And its stone wall was broken down.
    When I saw, I reflected upon it;
    I looked, and received instruction.
    “A little sleep, a little slumber,
    A little folding of the hands to rest,”
    Then your poverty will come as a robber
    And your want like an armed man.

    Add detrimental substances, stir, and complete the recipe for disaster. 🙁

  8. JoelG says:

    Lord have mercy on this poor woman.

    My wife and i have a deal. She quit drinking and I quit smoking 4 weeks ago. We’re a team in this. As grumpy as I get it’s been nothing but good fur us.

    If you need help, find a partner to quit this garbage together.

  9. CostcoCal says:

    I am being serious about the following questions in light of this:

    Why did Jesus choose turning water into wine for His first miracle?

    And choose wine to “do this in remembrance of Me?”

    Again, I am being sincere.

  10. Paige says:

    CostcoCal. I can’t answer for Jesus ‘why”. IMO of course is that a wedding is something we don’t attend very often… so a celebratory inbibe is different than picking up a 12 pack at the 7-11 every evening…. Same with Passover… it was once a year….prolly a lot of hungover people the next day. lol

    Of course…the huge cultural difference in our times., safety in fermentation of the fruit of the vine, etc… it’s not like fresh grape juice was all that available very often.
    Not to mention the environmental toxins that pollute the planet now, making vino, brew and other ‘spirit’ even more toxic.

    Some people have a gene mutation (in our family, it’s the MTHFR x 2) that makes us prone to addictions.

    Some can handle it. Some cannot… I prefer seeing the conservative approach for safety sake….. Love you!

  11. Dan from Georgia says:

    Growlers? Never knew what that was, even though we have several of them around here where I live. I would rather spend time at the gym than at the bar, and I just can’t tolerate the snobbery and scruffy beards apparent in the “theology pubs”. That being said, I do enjoy a bit of wine now and then.

  12. Dan from Georgia says:

    That also being said…I don’t look down on non-drinkers. I will probably stop the wine when I get into my exercise program.

  13. David H says:

    Dan from Georgia – “I would rather spend time at the gym than at the bar.”

    Yes. I lift with my son five times a week. Concentration, physical tension, and healthy outcome, bests being high.

  14. CostcoCal says:

    Paige….great answer! Thank you.

  15. Michael says:

    Thanks for all the responses.

    As I said, I’m not a teetotaler and believe that this issue is one of individual liberty and conscience.
    I enjoy alcohol in moderation and when I’m tempted to be immoderate I don’t use it at all.
    God created wine and spirits as a gift and like most gifts it can be abused and the intention of the gift distorted.
    My concern is that we are not recognizing that alcohol use can be a huge trap for some…I’ve been guilty of this in the past.

  16. Dan from Georgia says:

    Amen David H! That’s great that you lift with your son! I admire that. I had to take a break from the gym, but looking forward to going back. Also can debut my Metallica (GASP!) and Boston shirts to impress/scare people….hahahaha!

    Anyways, that is something my trainer said to me once, that it’s better to spend time in the gym than at the bar.

  17. The New Victor says:

    “irascible, untamable…” and likely traits which were amplified behind closed doors and towards those in an intimate relationship. In cases like these, there is often a dual-diagnosis (mental illness+substance abuse or addiction). The latter can bring out the worst of the former.

  18. Em says:

    As is so often here, this post and the comments are good for thought…
    A lovely neighbor is dealing with the same challenge – my daughter says ignore, but my sense is that is destructive, maybe even contributory – will read all things here today and learn how to interact and encourage (FWIW – I saw too many men and women hit the wall in their 50s when I was working – thank God for AA)

  19. Em says:

    Paige, great common sense comments – as a youngster I watched the contrast in the family between the drinkers and the abstainers and chose the latter – make no mistake, the kids watch, doesn’t mean they choose wisely, but they’re watching

  20. David H says:


    I have a collection of “gym shirts.” Yesterday was “Mastodon” day. Today might be “Amon Amarth” or “Meshuggah.” It’s all good clean dirty fun.

    I get asked, “what do you do to relax?”
    Answer, “lift heavy stuff.”

  21. Descended says:

    Costco Cal

    I have always thought it was because wine was simultaneously typological of joy and offering oneself “as a drink offering” to God, speaking of dying to oneself.

  22. Descended says:


    Thank you for this.

  23. Captain Kevin says:

    I think of myself as a tea-most-aler. Very rarely drink alcohol. Just depends on the occasion. I can see where that could be a stumbling block for some, so I try to choose carefully the wheres, whens, and with whoms. I feel so sorry for this lady. May God have mercy upon her.

  24. David H says:

    I used to imbibe a lot. Bingeing on Friday, and recovering on Saturday. I generally stay away from it now. I’m the designated driver when we go out. I refuse to drink and drive. Why destroy a lot of lives by being stupid?

  25. Josh the Baptist says:

    Grew up in a house with a drunk dad. Promised that my kids would not. Haven’t regretted that decision for one second.

  26. Paige says:

    My husband and I are on a diet….a health focused weight loss program that is pretty strict. What an incredible BUST for me to have to cop to my own addictions….to sugar, to too much food, using food for comfort, boredom, frustration, etc. Vice…. Such frailties of the flesh. Prone to wander, Lord I feel it. I am so easily fooled by my own mind and flesh.

  27. Xenia says:

    At the end of one’s life, I imagine plenty of people feel regretful that they drank too much. I doubt if anyone feels regret that they didn’t drink enough.

  28. Michael says:

    All I know is my friend didn’t wake up that morning intending to destroy life as she knew it…but she did.

  29. Josh the Baptist says:


  30. Jim Jacobson says:

    I’m terribly sorry to hear about this tragedy.
    Personally, I like to say, I already drank mine, and two or three other people’s…. been clean and sober for 30 years by God’s grace.
    I’m of the opinion that abstinence is the best practice for believers, just never seen any good come from alcohol. Ever. But, I’ve seen plenty of wreckage where it’s made things worse.
    As to the question “why did Jesus turn water into wine?” – it’s my belief that this was a theological message more than an example of practice. The first miracle signified a change from law to grace. The water was ceremonial the wine celebratory. In spite of a wide variety of opinions, no one knows how potent Jesus’ wine was, and I think it would be inconsistent to assume he encouraged drunkenness.
    It’s an old argument, but I’ll stick to my position, as I feel even if wrong, it’s safer, and I think the gospel teaches to set aside liberty in love rather than to use liberty where it can harm. I appreciate those who disagree responsibly, and I have no respect for those who are irresponsible -especially leaders in the church. I think theology pubs and the like are about the stupidest thing ever. My $.02

  31. pstrmike says:

    I don’t think you can make an airtight biblical case of abstinence from alcohol. I tell my folks they are free to drink, but I also caution them.

    The current atmosphere among some Christians who feel the need to frequently display their choice to drink creates a slippery slope. In some Christian circles that I am a part of, drinking has become obsessive, in that it is always present in social settings, a part of many conversations both in person and on social media. Such a strong focus could (I said could) produce alcohol related issues for people later on, regardless of whether they fall into alcoholism or not.

    I meet with a particular group of people who are pastors, church leaders, and professionals. This group started out very cohesive, yet as time has gone by, they have formed two social groups based on who drank and who didn’t. It’s sad to see such a divide over something that I have often heard as”no big deal”. Obviously, at least for this group, it is a big deal, and it is those who drink who have secluded themselves from those who do not.

    Such obsession will not serve the individual or the church well in the long run.

  32. Alex says:

    Good article and I’m in agreement with JJ, while understand the liberty in Christ and it’s not an absolute, but this cautionary tale in the article should serve as a warning that it can be destructive.

    Yet, Food is probably more destructive if you think about it. The leading killers in the US are Heart Disease and Cancer….both brought on by way too many calories and sugar intake. These deaths and illnesses lead to huge medical bills, early deaths etc which harm Families and Society greatly in the form of super high Health Care costs and bankruptcies and financial pressures for many families as well as the personal toll it takes on overweight people who feel terrible and are always sick.

    Alcohol, like homosexuality…is a bit of a Christian Taboo…while Overeating and Unhealthy eating AKA “Gluttony” isn’t even on the radar…yet wreaks more carnage. I find that ironic.

    Smoking and Overeating….probably more destructive than Alcohol….but seem to be off the radar in a Church context.

    Drop the twinkles, the soda pops, the fast food, the second helpings, the alcohol, the drugs, the cigarettes and don’t be gay LOL

  33. Alex says:

    In a hierarchy of “sins that lead to death”

    Smoking and Overeating/Gluttony are the top 2, by far. That’s what the Data and Facts show….yet you won’t ever hear a sermon on that.

  34. Alex says:

    Fat people make excuses. “I was born this way! I have low metabolism!” or some other nonsense. Well, that’s what the gays say, “I was born this way!”

    Basically, Fat people excuse their sin and don’t even count it as sin. Well, it’s sin. It is Gluttony.

  35. Alex says:

    “27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

    33 So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together. 34 Anyone who is hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment.”

    Gluttony was rampant in Paul’s time, he even talks of Early Christians using the Lord’s Supper and Communion as a gluttonous festival to eat and drink too much.

    These verses, taken more literally and in the context of Paul’s previous cautions about misusing the Lord’s Supper as a time to go all Glutton….likely sheds light on the consequences of such Gluttonous behavior: You will get sick and you will die young.

    Not hearing that taught, but that makes the most sense based on the Data and Facts we can observe.

    Others Overspiritualize that passage to mean that if you haven’t dealt with every last known sin you’ve done when you take Communion that God will zap you and you will get sick and die. Well there is no evidence to support that claim. We certainly don’t see that happen today. We do, however, see the results of Overeating and Gluttony and that was likely what Paul was referring to.

  36. em... again says:

    the overeating comments remind me that we have enough denial and rationalizing to deal with when we’re sober
    at the risk of sounding like a fanatic, the closer we can walk to Christ – or in Christ – the less the messed up world impacts both our soul and our persona … for me that involves my mind, my focus and i need a good teacher… praise hours just don’t do it, i need brain washing – “renewing” of my mind
    the trick is to enjoy life, let the wonder of life itself be our high and our anesthesia, too … some folk are born with a disposition to think that way and others only obsess on the negatives, the things they can’t fix* … the latter are at an advantage as they know they need something… easier to find Christ when you know you need Him, eh?
    * there’s a line from a hymn: “heaven above is softer blue, earth around a sweeter green, something lives in every hue [that] Christless eyes have never seen…” that was true for me

    just saying – thinking….

  37. Josh the Baptist says:

    I have heard sermons on smoking and overeating.

    I grew up in the house of an alcoholic dad and an overeating mom.

    Even before Christ, which one do you think I swore I’d never do?

    It’s not about sin. It’s not about an airtight biblical doctrine. It is about seeing the path of destruction caused by one thing and warning people against it. AS far as I know, the bible says nothing about meth. I’d urge you not to use that, too. Is that infringing upon your freedoms?

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