The CC Split: Commentary
It would be negligent of me in all this coverage of the Calvary Chapel split to ignore the people who it affects the most.
First, it obviously affects the pastor who is simply trying to feed the sheep God gave him without the drama created by well heeled tyrants fighting over territory.
They are being asked to make choices that will affect them and their congregations with the barest of information to base such a choice on.
Second, it affects those congregants who are totally in the dark except for wildly conflicting reports on the internet and whatever info the pastor gives them.
They are being fed online accusations and rumors that they have little ability to parse and the Gospel is buried under the mess they didn’t create.
They are repeating what they’ve heard and are being led to sin through slander and division.
They want to be on the side of God…but who knows what side that is?
Third, the overseas missionaries who will also be forced to choose…even if their support comes from both sides of the split.
They may have to make decisions that cut their support in half (or more)…and make staying where they are untenable.
While conferences are basically pastoral vacations in the States, they are life lines to missionaries overseas… which ones can they now attend without recrimination?
In any war, there are always victims considered “collateral damage”…and that’s what these groups are facing.
Next…
It amazes me that with all the scandal we’ve reported over the years…coverups of abuse, pastors picking up hookers, illegal and unethical financial matters, and so much more…that what will cause a split is one leader (without any reported moral stain) thinking it best not to teach verse by verse through Leviticus on Sunday morning.
Finally…
As is to be expected, some folks are saying unkind things about yours truly.
I stand by my reporting, I stand on my record, and my conscience is clean before God that I have done my best to report both accurately and fairly.
As my health allows, I will continue to do so.
Period.
Keep plugging away!
Thank you for remembering the missionaries.
Thank you, Michael. Though I don’t comment much, I read every post and my heart and prayers are with you. Grateful for you.
Thanks, Ryan.
We will keep plugging away as long as our fingers still work… 🙂
Thank you for your diligence & insight Michael
Thank you, AA…
For those of us who were part of the cultural phenomenon called the “Jesus’ People Movement”, we remain connected to Jesus because the core of our calling was to be independent of the church denominations and demands for organizational allegiance to anyone other than Jesus and our brothers and sisters in the family of God. Culture continues to change but Jesus remains the same.
Same as it ever was… same as it ever was…
Into the blue again… after the money’s gone
Leviticus 21 WOULD be hard to teach through vbv on a Sunday morning…
😉
Thank you for your articles, Michael. I have been reading through your blog for a few weeks now after things started to occur with CC. It has been great to hear some of the insight and to get other viewpoints as it can be easy to miss things when you are in the midst of the camp where the turmoil is occurring.
I fall under the third category and even more so than many as I am serving at one of the bible colleges. My wife and I get our support from a wide array of Calvarys and individuals in the states. We are a ministry of Costa Mesa and even just in the last week we have experienced some of the what will happen now as my wife is already stateside and a close friend of hers is super worried about this and wondering what will happen to the bible colleges.
It is just so crazy to me how much people have been saying without first or even second hand knowledge of what is truly going on. I was able to watch the video feed from the meeting Brian held with the staff at Costa Mesa and the bible college and it was crazy to hear some of the things that have been happening over the last several years and recently, it saddens my heart. I wish that the CCA council could have just dropped it with their previous letters, the last one was just too much and too far, it just seems sadly like one final dig or a “what will you say/do now, eh, Brian”.
I know Brian personally, and while I would not say well he has my trust until he does something to lose it. But even more than that, I trust those who are directly over me in the ministry who are accountable to Costa Mesa. But at the end of the day I know my calling wherever I may be as a missionary is not based upon any man or group of men. It is based completely on God and His power and provision.
I am hopeful that those who are on the outside and considering the bible colleges will look at it this way: the bible colleges have not changed overnight since Brian stepped down from the council. In the month or so since all of this began we have not changed, our mission has not changed, and the workers here have not changed. Rather than splitting into camps I pray that people would look at the track records of the places they are considering going. But even more than that I hope that they would be able to avoid the sectarian opinions and truly hear from God what He would have them to do.
The CCA is completely in the wrong and they are making false accusations against Brian, but I believe this whole thing could’ve been avoided if Brian just left without having to announce it. I could be wrong, but isn’t this what Greg Laurie did? He’s not even associated with CC any longer and he’s associating with the very ministries that CCA hates. Can we make the assumption that Greg went quietly and that is what BB should’ve done? After all why stir up the pharisee nest unless you have to…
#10 I don’t think Brian could have quietly left. He occupies a place of great visibility and prominence in CC. He spoke his intentions in a public way so that nobody can put words in his mouth or try and guess what he’s doing.
“The whole thing” could have been avoided had Chuck Smith been forward-thinking in putting together a plan of transition, in writing, notarized, signed by the principals involved. IMHO, his unbalanced obsession with the “rapture” effectively kept him from plannng for the future.
#11 I disagree because the Lord is our defense not some public letter that’s going to spook the sheep. If he just left without saying a word it would’ve been the equivalent of a mic drop. It was between him and CCA period. Now the CCA is doing exactly what the CCA is designed to do…cause division. In regards to the attack on PC, well we don’t really know what went on, but I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt. In regards to the rapture comment, was that some sort of theological jab at those of us who believe in the rapture?
Missionary J – what will happen with the Bible colleges?
They will continue to operate and bear fruit because they are a work of the Lord not of man.
Blessings
A fellow M
I was just discussing this with someone yesterday: I know several CC missionaries that are receiving financial and logistical support from members of BOTH organizations. I figure the CCGN side won’t care but will the CCA demand complete separation from the CCGN supporters? It would appear so.
On either case, it’s going to be rough on them.
Also, it does seem they primarily hear most from the CCA side of the issue…quite possibly due to the regional bishops.
#12 No, that was not at all meant to be a theological jab. I did not infer that I do not believe in the rapture. However, there are many who have an unhealthy obsession with it to the exclusion of other issues of greater importance.
Quote of the year!
Thanks, Jason… 🙂
I’m encouraged to hear from the missionaries and I hope each and every one of you come through this mess unscathed and able to continue the work you’re doing.
1. There is zero legit controversy that Brian is/was to be the Sr. Pastor at Costa Mesa. Watch the youtube clip and listen to the lone voice of dissent contrasted to the congregation’s standing ovation, and staff laying hand and praying. Who is the man claiming he is the rightful successor? Anyone? OK, so no controversy there.
2. There is zero controversy about the existence of the CCA as well. No need for future affiliations to be run through Costa Mesa, but rather, using relationships in the various areas of the country, we could continue to be an affiliation of like minded pastors with fellowship being one of the chief desires of us pastors. Brian was on board with CCA and more than happy to be the regional guy for his area, just like the others are for theirs.
3. There is zero controversy that each individual Calvary Chapel is independent.
Which brings us back to 3 years of behind the scenes disagreements, jealousies and personality battles and the current “verse by verse” or “women teachers” being the smokescreen used for CCA to fire the first public shot, joining with certain ODM voices who have no church to pastor, or at least, see that pastoring God’s people as a distant second to keeping track on how other pastors are teaching, or who they are inviting to teach. Sad.
One should never fire a shot and not expect a shot to be fired back. That’s a pretty good rule to live by (which is why you shoot to kill, not to annoy)
We need to drop the blame shifting on Pastor Chuck. He could have done some things better, more vocal, but in the end, Chuck left his Costa Mesa church with a clear successor, and left the movement with a blueprint for future affiliation that would not all be in the control of one man…..and he also chose to leave all the assets with the church that paid for them in the first place.
The problems are with the heirs fighting over the inheritance and not liking how the will was drawn up…as is often the case once the body is in the ground.
Michael, I appreciate how you are looking at this from different human angles. These kinds of things never effect only the main parties involved (in this case, BB and CCA).
What becomes of a CC that just ignores all of the emails and videos from either side? The CC that chooses not to engage?
CK,
Thanks.
To be blunt, my main concern is to highlight the impact on the missionaries, because it seems to me that they have the most to lose in this mess.
MLD,
We don’t know yet.
BB isn’t demanding a loyalty oath…we’ll see about the other side.
Ok….I can’t figure it out:. What is ODM?
Other denominational member?
Online Discernment Ministry… the doctrine police.
Is anyone missing a lampstand?
The doctrine police…haha…gosh Michael, you’re being so…umm…nice today. 😉
This rings true. I fall into the first category, but my concerns are primarily with those in the third. I teach at a couple of the Bible Colleges overseas (Neither of which are owned by Costa Mesa) and I worry about the ripple effect this will have on support, staff, and how they get visiting teachers. I worry about the day when people and churches who had previously partnered with a clear conscience will now say, “I can’t play with you anymore.”
95% of the people in our pews (chairs) don’t have any idea of what’s going on. I’m not going to sully the pulpit by bringing it up unless I absolutely have to. Honestly, i could change our name and take down the dove and there would be very little pushback. But in contrast, ALL of the missionaries we support are very aware of this spat, and I expect a few of them to Take Sides if they haven’t already.
#10
Can we make the assumption that Greg went quietly and that is what BB should’ve done?
Greg was fired by Brian.
He did go quietly.
There’s been trouble with our regional guy for years, but no one at the mother church would listen. People just leave because there is no accountability. Wonder if that will change under CCGN.
Your shepherds heart ❤️ brings up those who might be the most unsettled in this mess.
I admit I missed that one entirely.
Some of the links here might give some perspective on some of the statements, rumors and speculations in the commentaries here.; Policies for CCGN and there is nothing about a loyalty oath.
http://calvarychapelassociation.com/socal/region-5/
and a CCCM pastor is still on the CCA website;
http://calvarychapelassociation.com/socal/region-5/
Harvest Christian (Greg Laurie) is still on the Church finder as a calvary listed in “Riverside, CA”.
https://calvarychapel.com/church-locator/
Steve @ 19:
That was a good post brother! One thing though: You refer to their being no controversy regarding the existence of the CCA and refer to it as being for affiliations. However, what the CCA is claiming seems to be much more than just being the overseer of affiliations – they’re making themselves out to be the leaders of all and definers of everything “Calvary Chapel”. That latest letter makes that very clear.
29) Potatoe head:
Do we know that Greg was “fired” by BB? Where did you hear that?
30) LifeAfterCC:
The CCGN will clearly not have any accountability. This is seemingly by design and is also the part that I consider somewhat frustrating and probably should for any here that have been talking about the need for some form of accountability in CC. The CCGN strengthens the “independent church” model… At least the idea of the CCA with having some regional oversight leaders was an attempt at some form of structure and this is the one main point in the CCA letter that I can concede to them – they claim in it that “CCGN is about freedom, without accountability.” And that appears to be true since it’s just a loose network rather than any real structure. The CCA does at least have a form of structure (granted it’s very ill-defined and changing all the time). Brian doesn’t really seem to have any interest from what I can see in being leader over other churches (as the CCA letter claims) and establishing any sort of authority structure over them. His approach seems to be more “If you like what we’re doing and want to network with us, then have at it, but you’ll have your church, and we’ll have ours.”
Michael / Anyone in the know:
Do we know that every one of the people who’s name was attached to the latest CCA letter actually did get to read it ahead of time and supported that letter? I ask because to me there are some names attached that honestly surprise (and sadden) me a bit.
This is also one of the things that has most frustrated me about what the CCA is doing. They keep signing those letters as “The CCA Council” and like. And that gives a false impression. What they SHOULD be signing it as is “Some of the CCA Council” because that’s the truth. Not all of the current council as listed on their website signed it. And the signer names have changed with each letter and the CCA Council itself has changed – several names that were listed on the website a few weeks ago aren’t there anymore and I assume that means they resigned from the council just like Brian did.
This dishonesty and misrepresentation by the CCA to the 1700 pastors and churches is huge IMO. They make it sound like they’re a 100% united front and they’re clearly not. They’re misrepresenting (some might call that lying) and that’s wrong! Even if they were to be right in everything else they say (doubtful IMO), that one fact alone should cause all pastors to seriously question the CCA’s position. If they’re willing to misrepresent that, what would stop them from misrepresenting anything else (i.e. the content of the letter)?
It’s a bit hard to be sympathetic for those who all these years stayed pastors in a system they quietly claimed they disagreed with its tenets, like Moses Model and no open financial reporting of tithe usage to the congregation. If they had these issues (and rightfully so) why did they continue to stay under the CC banner. Perhaps they held onto some misplaced devotion to Chuck, I personally got tired if hearing Chuck this or Chuck that nearly every Sunday. Or perhaps they liked having the pseudo perks of being in a denominational cover and the connections it gave them, because argue if you will that is exactly what CC became.
I know one pastor who while moving through the CC system found himself on the worship of a CC. The pastor there would yell and scream at his underling ministry team. Nice fruit of the Spirit. After a few year the guy on the worship team left and went another CC. He made the brainwashed comment that the Lord had him sit under that prideful arrogant pastor to teach him something. What he should have said was that Pastor has no business being a Pastor, that it was a work of the Flesh and not a call of God on his life, he really does not like people that much and he has wounded many and left them cynical.
Chris I will ask my source if it is alright to reveal the source to you and of course by extension everyone else here.
I can say it is from someone in the inner circle of this mess.
Potatoe Head
Are you referring to the time that Greg was doing his Monday night evangelistic event fir young people at CCCM and Brian, shortly after he came back from London, took over Monday nights? I had heard it was a rather abrupt transition with little consideration or gratitude given to Greg. If that is what you are referring to, that was a long time ago and I’d hardly equate that with Brian kicking or firing Greg out of CC.
Chris Long states @ #34 “The CCGN will clearly not have any accountability. ” and I agree with him – it is not in the DNA of the CC leadership.
So the question is, why are we even having the conversation – isn’t this just a matter of one illegitimate organization trying to gain the upper hand over another illegitimate group?
This is really just a referendum over comfort levels.
Actually, wouldn’t this be a great time for Brodersen t step up and say “everyone can be a part of CCGN and stay in our system… except Bob Grenier and CC Visalia – they must go.
MLD @ 39: I’m sure from your point of view it all is indeed “illegitimate” as you say. With all due respect to you MLD (and I do mean that), I long ago grew weary of one part of Christ’s body de-legitimizing and looking down on another part of Christ’s body. I grew up in the LCMS and I saw it there (including regarding CC) and I see it now in your statement. Just because you and/or I might not think their church/denom structure is ideal doesn’t make them “illegitimate”. That’s a pretty strong word…Personally, I’d want to think long and hard before I ever threw around a term like that towards a segment of Christ’s Body that He purchased… With that said, if I’ve misunderstood your intent there, please forgive me.
None of that changes the fact tho that we agree that there is a real lack of oversight and structure within CC and that this CCGN seems to not do anything to affect that situation.
Finally…
“As is to be expected, some folks are saying unkind things about yours truly.
I stand by my reporting, I stand on my record, and my conscience is clean before God that I have done my best to report both accurately and fairly.
As my health allows, I will continue to do so.
Period.”
Thank you Michael; praying for you to continue in wisdom, wading through all this hog-slop. Many of us also have our foul weather gear on, over the armor to keep it oiled.
I think the accountability that Brian and even the CCA desire is each pastor to be accountable to his own church board. I don’t think Chuck ever wanted to get in the middle of squabbles and try to discern what the truth is. I think that is the healthy way for resolving issues and dealing with rogue pastors. But unfortunately, many surround themselves with yes men and the board has no courage or integrity to stand up to the pastor when necessary. No system of church government will work if the men in it have no integrity or true godliness.
Chris,
I think you don’t realize the impact of your own comments. You didn’t preface with “in my opinion” or “I don’t think this will happen…” You made an emphatic statement;
“The CCGN will clearly not have any accountability.”
Note your words – WILL CLEARLY NOT HAVE ANY ACCOUNTABILITY.
So I agreed with you. When I was at Ocean Hills in the early 2000s the Skip invasion brought with him an illegitimate board of directors – a group that had no accountability to the church
What would you call a board of directors at General Motors that purposely refused to have accountability to the share holders? Perhaps I should have used the term renegade. 🙂
My comments say nothing of CC churches, their teachings nor the attendees. Just these pseudo leadership groups. At least in the LCMS when the leadership goes rogue, the accountability is in the constitution and by law and we have leadership elections every 3 yrs – and in 2010 we did just that, turn away the governing board of the past 10 yrs and brought in a new slate that promised to be more accountable.
So as I said, this whole conversation comes down to comfort level
Brian and CCGN go in the direction of every other church in town that is called “the River”, “Elevation”, “the Gathering”, and so on. Too cool for school.
And CCA will go in the direction of remembering things the way they NEVER were. Chuck Smith never taught line by line on Sunday mornings, so what’s the big deal about that? I wish he had taught that way Sunday mornings, but, he didn’t. And Chuck Smith skipped vast swaths of Scripture on Wednesday nights too, particularly in the Old Testament. And Chuck Smith was very ecumenical.
Jess,
Add to that, Chuck had women teaching men in the Tuesday School of the Bible classes at Costa Mesa.
Remembering things the way they never were….I like that expression.
I’m reading the biography of one of the major players in this. The typical 70s background for so many guys of no close father figure, drugs, spiritual search into Hindu-like nonsense and then Christ steps in and saves them. Praise the Lord.
However, this person spent the next 7 years in largely cultic Christian influences, beaten up because there was no real growth – offset by a smattering of Calvary Chapel visits around the Southern California. Finally, he sat under Chuck for less than a year then went out and planted a church which is now a massive church.
I do not share this in any way to criticize or demean the testimony or the church planting.
However, some of us (yours truly) did not spend the first 7-8 years of our lives following cults. For the first eight years of my Christian walk I was planted at Costa Mesa, multiple services, including all 3 each week that Chuck taught. I served there, learned there, worshipped there.
This offered just to reinforce the point above that these guys not only misrepresent the way Chuck ministered, but many of them did not even sit under Chuck for any significant length of time.
You didn’t/don’t need to sit under Chuck to plant a church that the Lord blesses abundantly. That is NOT the point. Nor to demean how Calvary Chapel grew back in the day.
But you better have a little more than token “pew knowledge”, mixed in with a couple decades of conferences and hanging out with the father figure you never had before lecturing on how Chuck used to pastor the local church.
Being a friend, even a peer, and being a parishioner are not the same thing.
Steve,
And if someone wants to claim that all Calvary Chapels should be like McDonald’s, most especially like the original one, and wants to dictate what that means for how all the other McDonalds’ are to operate, they would have spent many years in that original McDonald’s becoming intimately familiar with exactly how that McDonald’s actually did operate.
“Remembering things the way they never were….I like that expression”
X2. Perfectly stated
Missed a phrase in my last comment:
And if someone wants to claim that all Calvary Chapels should be like McDonald’s, most especially like the original one, and wants to dictate what that means for how all the other McDonalds’ are to operate, you would think they would have spent many years in that original McDonald’s becoming intimately familiar with exactly how that McDonald’s actually did operate.
I have an extra lampstand if Ms, ODM needs hers back…it’s a dim light, but works well in the outhouse.
Chris and Jeff,
You can contact Dennis Agajanian for confirmation and you can contact Greg Laurie himself.
They may confirm the story…
Dennis Agajanian Ministries
Phone: 619-971-4555
Email: agajanian1@aol.com
Potatoe head: I assume you had permission to post that since you said you were checking. Thank you. Though if I were him, I wouldn’t want the email posted on a public forum like this as besides possibly receiving unwanted emails from legit people on any number of topics, lots of spambots grab email addresses off of sites like this for spam. Personally I’d suggest you have Michael remove that post or better yet edit it to just remove the email address.
To be clear though per Jeff’s comments, are we referring to when Greg left Monday nights back in the day?
it’s an aol address. The guy can’t be THAT worried about it 🙂
MLD @ 44:
Thank you for the clarification. I didn’t limit your comment to only referring to the accountability but to the entire denom, but you’ve clarified that isn’t what you meant so my apologies for misinterpreting. We are in agreement I think (yes, I prob would have been more comfortable with “renegade”) 🙂 Yes, the structure of denoms like the LCMS that have safeguards in place can be a real strength. I also happen to think there can be downsides to such rigid structure as well, but that’s a discussion that’s been had on this site many times before by others and I don’t want to repeat. 🙂
As for the accountability, I didn’t need to preface what I said about the CCGN with any “in my opinion” verbage because it’s not really open to opinion. Brian himself pretty much said it in the Things That Matter video on the CCGN at the CC website that the CCGN is just a network/partnering and specifically won’t really have a “leadership structure” like other orgs have. But of course they’re in the early stages of rolling this out so anything could change I would think.
Anyway, looks like we’re more or less agreed – sorry for misinterpreting. Blessings! 🙂
Josh @ 54) LOL! 🙂
Off topic, but, I love Dennis Agajanian!
#53
It is Dennis public contact booking info on his own website.
Anyone at anytime has access to it if they take the time to go to the site.
How else to reach him for an event?
http://www.dennisagajanian.com
And yes he is a wonderful Christian Worship leader!
To clarify, my contact chooses to remain Anonymous.
But it was suggested that Dennis may tell what he knows about the incident.
And Greg himself has confirmed it a time or two when asked by others I was told.
58) Indeed it is – somebody should tell him that it’s not very wise to post your email on your website. I do I.T. and this has been a “no no” for many many years (since the 90’s!) because the spambots scour the web looking for in-the-clear email addresses. AOL or not, that’s just not very smart. He also oddly has a contact form (which is the correct way to do it) but doesn’t have that secured by captcha, so the bottom line is that man must get a boat load of SPAM. I’m sure AOL manages to filter a lot of it, but it might also be filtering some legit msgs too and who knows what gigs Dennis has been missing out on because of this…
Greg wasn’t fired because he was not an employee of CC. Asked to leave because it’s time to give other young up and comers like Joey Berandt a chance was probably how it went down.
61) Well personally, I was there for both of them and thought both had their place but Buran’s service did have a really special vibe that was really fresh and exciting at the time to me as a guy in my early-mid 20’s back then, so if indeed that’s what happened (I have no idea), in my book, it might have been the right call…
But to Potatoe Head’s original point that started that back in post 29: Regardless of what did or did not happen with Greg (I orig thought he was saying that something recent happened between Greg and Brian, not something 11-12 years ago…) just because Greg may have “gone quietly” does not at all equate the same to Brian now. You can’t compare the 2 situations. Brian heads up Chuck Smith’s church – what was always seen as the main and original Calvary Chapel – “Big Calvary” – and he can’t possibly just “go quietly” when there’s 1700 other Calvary Chapel’s to consider. Further, from his perspective, he doesn’t need to GO at all. He considers CCCM to BE “Calvary Chapel”. He may have left the CCA which was just formed a few years ago, but he doesn’t think he’s left Calvary Chapel. This is a very different situation than the fact that a pastor (high-profile as he may be) might have been asked to not teach anymore at CCCM years ago – that didn’t affect 1700 other CC’s and the future of the movement and it would have been right and proper for Greg to go quietly…
Buran moved in the Holy Spirit almost in the same manner as Lonnie Frisbee.
He did not bore God’s people at all.
In fact there was an astonishing number of back slidden Christians that responded to his ministry and they got back on track because of attending his services.
As well as new believers who have the testimony of having been touched by God during Buran’s teaching.
I totally agree with you Chris, that special vibe as you say, was the result of Joey relying upon the Holy Spirit to manifest during his studies.
As for my term “go quietly” I meant that Greg did not publicly complain when Brian dismissed him on a Friday and took over himself on Monday.
After Brian took over the number of kids coming Monday nights diminished, it just wasn’t Brain’s calling.
That is not to say that Greg and Kathy were not hurt by the incident.
Kay Smith was livid.
Only Brian knows the reason why it happened.
But yes there have been some exciting younger men of God who came up to the plate and were hitting spiritual home runs in my opinion.
I have known Greg since we were in high school together and I was present out on the lawn during lunch time on a Friday when Lonnie Frisbee brought him to the Lord.
I got to know Greg even better when he served at our Bible Book store at the Newport Beach pier for a summer.
He was so full of revelation from the Lord about the Scriptures and none of us even knew that he was a teacher/evangelist at that time.
And you know something, that man has not changed one bit as far as his zeal and his faithfulness to his calling in the Lord.
God is always looking for faithful men.
Paul wrote to Titus: “For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order what remains…” ( Titus 1:5 ) .
He was implying that because Titus was a faithful man, he would faithfully do what God set before him to do.
Greg Laurie has been faithful over the decades.
There are so many others I could tell you about who serve faithfully.
We never hear about them but they still stand and serve.
You younger men of God have some big shoes to fill when these old timers get called home to be with the Lord.
I appreciate your words Chris and your heart to minister.
Your a good man of God.
64) 🙂 🙂 I’ve always loved Greg because he’s very relatable and comes across sincere. Joey came across the same but in a different way that just was really special to me as a younger guy at the time. At the time when I first went to Buran’s service (it was on Thurs nights before moving to Mon), I was somewhat disillusioned with Christianity and the Church as a whole because it seemed like so many pastors were just pretenders playing a game to me. They were doing their religious thing but they weren’t meeting me in my real life with my real life questions and hurts. It was very surreal and honestly was starting to make me question the faith all the way around because it just seemed like a bunch of game players. Then I heard Buran filling in on a Tues night (for Courson I believe if my memory is correct) and I thought “Yes! This is a guy that’s REAL and tells it like it is and is talking about real-life and how the Scripture really affects my real life!” It was such a breath of fresh air to me and so I started going to his WG service on Thurs and then Mon after Laurie had left. I also seemed to recall a gap after Laurie left but before Joey took over on Mon but couldn’t remember who was there – I guess from what you’ve said it was Brian himself that gave a crack at it…very interesting (and yeah, I would agree with you regarding it prob not being his strong suit).
Anyway, yes, I’ve always held high esteem for Greg as well. What a blessing for you to have known him from the get go and see how God has used him through the years! 🙂 He does strike me as a guy that besides his great sense of humor has indeed been faithful to his calling and has done it all with a good dose of humility (at least that seems the case from me looking in on the outside). I praise God for all He has done with Greg and still has yet to do! 🙂
Blessings to you Potatoe Head! [Can I call you MR. Potatoe Head? 😉 😉 Don’t want to offend! 😉 lol Or it occurs to me that maybe I’m being misogynistic and it’s really Mrs. Potatoe Head! 😉 ] Anyway, Blessings! 🙂 I really appreciated that Scripture as well – God used that to minister to me tonight. 🙂
Just for clarification, as far as I know Greg and Brian are good friends.
Greg is a brand unto himself and his board does not want him involved in this mess in any way.