The New Pornography of Hate and Violence: Duane W.H. Arnold

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53 Responses

  1. Michael says:

    ” Yet, that is a hope, not a certainty, as those who have prided themselves on being culture warriors will leave in their wake the sterile and blackened ground of a battlefield that produced no victory in what will be seen, in retrospect, as an act of self-destruction.”

    I sadly believe this to be true.
    The proper Christian response to the wickedness around us is so counter intuitive and our people so poorly catechized in those ways that our only hope are those who enter the church anew when we remember who we are…

  2. Steve says:

    Duane, I got a couple of videos from the chronicle of Narnia series that I found in the kids section that we watched over Thanks Giving break, I thought they would be harmless Christian films for kids but I was wrong, they were extremely violent. These may be great stories that C.S. Lewis wrote but once they were turned into films, the violence was more than I could handle and definately too much for my daughter.

  3. Ray says:

    The horrific violence is the reality of our world and the result of failed policies and evil world leaders.
    The Church should have no business in politics. The role of the Church is to present the Gospel and offer hope in the midst of this hell here on earth so many people are living; some images of their hell selectively streaming on social media.

    Christ is my hope.

  4. Duane Arnold says:

    Michael

    What we are witnessing is similar to a murder-suicide pact…

  5. Em Wegemer says:

    As the snake said to Eve, “And hath God said….?”
    Yes He has

  6. Duane Arnold says:

    By the way, a recent academic study concluded that Christian nationalist ideology was at the root of the majority of recent political violence in the United States.

  7. Dan from Georgia says:

    Duane. That doesn’t surprise me. I can guarantee those guys holding semi-automatic guns are NOT supportive of a multi-cultural society.

  8. Muff Potter says:

    Dan from Georgia, those guys, the ones with the guns and their supporters, don’t want a democracy.
    Think about what that entails.

  9. Nonnie says:

    Actually, I am seeing some churches saying “Jesus was a transgender,” Some churches not acknowledging that they even know what a women is, and some churches affirming marriages between same sex people, when God’s Holy Word says that “marriage” is between a man and a woman. Please note, I have absolutely no problem with same sex couples having a civil union and EVERY protection by law that a couple in a committed relationship deserve, but why should the church be redefining the word “marriage” to fit the pornography of the world? Why should the church descend into the cultural hell of our day and morph God’s word to fit it? The next agenda of our culture is to redefine the word pedophile. They now want to call these people, “MAP”….”Minor Attracted Person. “ Is this the next pornography that we will allow in the church because, if we don’t, the world will accuse us of causing violence on MAP people, when some father beats the hell out of a MAP for molesting his child?

  10. Duane Arnold says:

    “…but why should the church be redefining the word “marriage” to fit the pornography of the world?”

    I have long held the view the churches should not be functionaries for the government in terms of performing marriages. That might allow the churches to determine for themselves what is or what is not a sacramental union.

    That being said, recent studies have indicated that the morality which is exercised in most churches is a carbon copy of the society at large. All this is again to say we have lost our moral authority. I might add the moral authority is not reestablished by force or violence…

  11. Michael says:

    The church in America finds itself torn between sinful extremes.
    Each side is as odious as the other.

    Both sides are trying to use political processes to crush the other…while what the church should really be and be doing is not a matter of discussion…but should be.

  12. Nonnie says:

    Duane, my point was that churches are embracing the pornography of the world. I agree with you that marriage should not be sullied by the government. Let it be a holy sacrament and let people have a governmental union, if they choose. However, I have no problem with anyone protecting their child from a predator, regardless of what they call themselves. (Thinking of MAP (minor attracted people” molesting children and trying to say that it is an alternative lifestyle.). If a father committed violence on a pervert like that, I would have no issue with it. Jesus said, “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Mat. 18:6

  13. Duane Arnold says:

    A recent book on this issue of morality among evangelicals is ‘After the Revolution: Sex and the Single Evangelical’ by David Ayres.

  14. Duane Arnold says:

    Nonnie,

    I think it is a very extreme fringe that would seriously embrace MAP.

    This, however, brings up the issue of looking at the most extreme views, and then using them to build an argument. It does exactly what social media means for us to do in getting a reaction. If we’re going to look at the subject seriously, we have to set aside the extreme references which are only meant to anger and incite. This, of course, is right in the wheelhouse of QAnon and Pizzagate…

  15. Nonnie says:

    Duane, I’m not talking about evangelicals. I know you disagree with them. I am referring to your tribe. Where do you stand on the Anglican Church or even the Church of England? I understand you are critical of the American evangelical church, but what I was referring to was the Anglican Church, the Church of England and decisions they are making. This is close to my heart as I am very close to this church for the past 10 years and profoundly disappointed in some of the decisions that are being made…decisions that I referred to in my posts above.

  16. Nonnie says:

    Oh please! Qanon is such a weak and false excuse for weaselling out of the TRUTHS I am talking about. I have absolutely nothing to to with or have ever even acknowledgeD Qanon. I even had to look it up a few months ago. If you have to stoop to accusing me of being a part of even acknowledging Qanon or pizzagate, then I know how desperate your argument is. I’m insulted that you would go there. How ridiculous. I am truly surprised that you stoop so low.

  17. Michael says:

    Just for the record…I’ll let Duane answer for himself, but I will testify that he has a very traditional, conservative view on sexuality and has paid the cost for living that out in his tribe.

    Speaking again for myself…the Western Anglican tradition is on hospice and will disappear over the next couple of decades.

    For me, this is tragic.

  18. Nonnie says:

    That is my take as well. I love the Anglican TRADITION, but the people that are running it now are embracing the pornography of the world. God help us.

  19. Michael says:

    Nonnie,

    I am fully convinced that the liturgy, (along with the limits on the homily) are the medicine that could cure much of what ails the church.

    It removes much of the personality nonsense and is biblically shaped for spiritual growth.

    Unfortunately, it has been destroyed by unholy alliances…we don’t address it much here because the communion has little or no influence left, especially in America.

  20. Ray says:

    “I think it is a very extreme fringe that would seriously embrace MAP.”

    The same “fringe” that have embraced the transgender, “self identities” preferred pronouns, LGBTQ+, drag shows, sexual exploration and pornography that has inundated our public elementary school classrooms.

  21. Nonnie says:

    Michael, I accused some of the church of embracing the latest cultural perversion of the day, and then Duane stooped so low to accuse me of embracing Qanon or pizza gate. I was merely claiming that the church is now saying they won’t define what a woman is, they won’t define what marriage is and that I believe the next move is that “minor attracted persons” is on the pornographers assembly line of the culture and then (by the way things are going) the church. I’m merely pointing out what HAS happened and by that experience, my prognosis of what WILL happen. I am offended that we are told we need to shut up because if WE speak out against some perversions that are going on, some mentally ill people may become violent and therefore we need to keep our mouths shut. If we don’t keep our mouths shut about the perversions that are going on in the church and in the schools and in society, then it is our fault that a mentally ill or evil person is violent. I do not accept that!

  22. Michael says:

    Duane did not say that you were embracing Q-Anon.
    He said that extremes are too often used as examples and thus the arguments go nowhere.

    No one here is telling anyone to keep their mouths shut…we are suggesting that these matters , if they are motivated by Christian ethics, must be addressed in Christian ways.

    You can hope that political activism will turn the tide until the cows come home…but until we cleanse the temple and seek the power of God…we will continue to lose…and lose the church in the process.

  23. Em Wegemer says:

    One thing must NO
    T get lost in the word shuffle. Scripture is clear that God does not approve of “same sex” couples. I, myself, think it is a sign of a declining civilization. Kissing another woman on the lips? UGGHH! ! ! 😚

  24. Nonnie says:

    To not speak the truth and speak up in the church and in the market place, is to accept the pornography of hell that is happening. I will not accept the accusation that my speaking up against perversions in the schools, in the marketplace, in the church causes mentally ill or evil people to cause violence. We must speak the truth….in love, with grace, but the TRUTH. I knew exactly what Duane was implying. I was absolutely referring to extremes. The extremes of what the culture and even the church is embracing and it has nothing, whatsoever to do with Qanon or Pizzagate, as Duane implied!

  25. Nonnie says:

    Yes, what Ray said, Ray November 29, 2022 at 3:20 pm
    “I think it is a very extreme fringe that would seriously embrace MAP.”

    The same “fringe” that have embraced the transgender, “self identities” preferred pronouns, LGBTQ+, drag shows, sexual exploration and pornography that has inundated our public elementary school “classrooms.

  26. Steve says:

    Can anyone tell me what the + means in LGBTQ+. I thought Q was the all encompassing catch all with sexual proclivities but when they added + it made me think there must be more. Is this where MAP fit in? And we treat these folks as a protected class. Nonnie is right when the church starts embracing this.

  27. Jean says:

    Is the mission of the church to get more morally upright people into hell, or to get more sinners into heaven?

  28. Nonnie says:

    Jean, the older I get the more I realize what a sinner I am and how gracious God is. I also know the TRUTH has to be proclaimed and the children have to be protected.

  29. Steve says:

    Amen Nonnie!

  30. Duane Arnold says:

    The thread, unfortunately, is the proof of how we have abandoned Christian ethics in favor of social media clickbait…

  31. Nonnie says:

    Evidently your article was the clickbait. I guess it got what you wanted.

  32. Michael says:

    The church doesn’t even protect its own kids…and that’s the truth too.
    When we start, I’ll have time to worry about what the heathen are doing.

  33. Nonnie says:

    Michael said “ The church doesn’t even protect its own kids…and that’s the truth too. When we start, I’ll have time to worry about what the heathen are doing.”.
    That is exactly what I have been concerned about in my comments and yet Duane accuses me of being Qanon and clickbaiting. He is insulting and misogynistic towards me.

  34. Michael says:

    When I say the church doesn’t protect its own I look right to the top of this page where all the Potters Field stories…actually, just the ones I published.

    I think of the ongoing Patmos and multiple computers filled with the stories of abuse from within just one denomination.

    I think of all the exposure the same stuff has had in the SBC…and how some of the loudest voices pointing out of the camp to the heathens still cover it and prop up the abusers.

    That’s not the extreme…that’s main stream American evangelicalism.

    Forgive me that I have no use for those worried about the culture outside while the inside is deadly as well.

    The difference is that one makes political hay and the other does not….and politics is now the coin of the realm…and the church is in ruins.

    Tell me how we “proclaim the truth” when we won’t even look at the truth about ourselves.

    Evidently, a very few have noticed that the more we wage war the way we are, the worse things get.

  35. bob1 says:

    Good God… someone needs a time out.

  36. BrideofChrist says:

    How is this article ‘click bait’, Nonnie? It is an article about violence in America today – the violence against police officers at the capital, mass gun murders everywhere, threats against Jewish synagogues, etc. That’s the article I read. Somehow, the thread was hijacked and, suddenly, the subject is LGBQs and some other thing called MAP? I’ve never even heard of anything like that anywhere, ever. So, yeah, that’s fringe – and someone, somewhere, has you all riled up about it, which is what they wanted! But now readers are left scratching their heads and wondering what your issue ( if it’s even real) has to do with Duanne’s article, which is about the rising tide of violence in America.

  37. Nonnie says:

    BoC I was refer to this paragraph…
    “ members of the LGBQT+ community, immigrants, the rural and urban poor… all have been targeted in the current atmosphere of anger and outrage. In such an atmosphere, it is now no longer enough to disagree with an opinion, it is now incumbent upon those opposed to such an opinion to rage and call for a violent response.”.

  38. Michael says:

    I am as traditional as can be in regard to sexuality…but the recent shootings targeting gay bars was most probably what Duane was referencing…and I abhor that as well.

  39. Michael says:

    I can also assure you that if I called Duane and told him I beat the living hell out of someone who was abusing a child that priestly absolution and blessing would follow quickly…

  40. Michael says:

    This will be the last I say on the matter, because I have no permission to speak further…but I know for a fact that Duane has paid a high cost for standing against these things…not on the internet, but in. person… to protect young people.

    Do with that what you will.

  41. Steve says:

    I dont see Nonnie all riled up but rather concerned and rightfully so for the church. The LGBTQ+ community issue came right from Duanes article which was in juxtaposition with immigrants and the poor like these groups are somehow morally equivalent. So I think some pushback is quite appropriate and I appreciate Nonnies comments.

  42. BrideofChrist says:

    Nonnie, apologies are due. I didn’t recall that statement from Duane’s article. The fact remains that violence and violent rhetoric against Jewish people, Asian Americans, gays, and even women ( the rise of ‘Incel’ groups) is higher than in 50 years. England has already categorized some crimes against women as ‘hate’ crimes. These diverse groups are all seeing a
    surge of violence directed against them. The rise in violence is documented by police records. I think Duane deserves credit for condemning the trend.

  43. Duane Arnold says:

    Violent speech can result in violent actions. For this, we all bear responsibility. When we accuse teachers of grooming, when we accuse those of a different political persuasion of being pedophiles, we are part of the problem. It is time for us to be adults and to address those issues which are right in front of us. With regard to sexuality, I am a traditionalist. I find, however, the most evangelical churches are far more liberal than they would wish to admit. We are supposed to be different. We are to have a morality that is based in the gospels, not in social theory. Too many have bought in to arguments that have nothing to do with the functioning of the church. Until we decide that we will be a separate people we have very little to offer.

  44. bob1 says:

    Here, here!

  45. Nonnie says:

    BofC, of course I condemn violence. My point is that speaking the TRUTH against perversions is not, in itself violence. Duane seems to be saying that the mere act of speaking against perverse acts is violence!!! He is saying that because I or another speak against perversion we cause others to act violently. That is insanity.

  46. Michael says:

    “Duane seems to be saying that the mere act of speaking against perverse acts is violence!!! ”

    That is simply not true and I have no idea how you read that into this piece.

    I am genuinely shocked.

    More…saddened that this is what its come to among reasonable people.

  47. Nonnie says:

    I am one who believes that the church should preach Christ….preach the gospel. When I commented here, I was speaking of the church being corrupted by the perversity of the world. Duane is the one who brought up the actions and politics of the world and then accused Christians who are wanting to live in a Christlike manner and who speak out against perversion as people who are inciting violence. Duane said that “violent speech can result in violent actions.” To speak the truth is NOT violence.

  48. Michael says:

    ‘To speak the truth is NOT violence.”

    No one here…not Duane, not myself, no one…has even suggested that.

    I have known you for a very long time and I’m at a complete loss as to why you are saying these things.

  49. Michael says:

    One of the reasons I’ve always left comments open was so that people could ask questions or ask for clarification from the people who write here.

    Sometime ago, people stopped asking and started assuming the worst and this place, (nor social media in general) has ever been the same.

    I foolishly signed another year long “lease” on this pit, but it’s long past time to review the format.

    There are too may things to be sad about in real life to keep putting us all through this.

  50. Nonnie says:

    I merely quoted Duane. And disagree with him. To speak the truth is not violent speech. If you haven’t seen the videos of teachers that are applauding and bragging about the children in their classes for learning about their pronouns, for hiding their genders from their parents….these people are GROOMERS. Yes, I will call them that and Duane says that is inciting violence. I say it is calling out what is true. (Of course this has nothing to do with the church…this is just difference between what is right and what is wrong)

    Duane Arnold November 29, 2022 at 7:00 pm
    Violent speech can result in violent actions. For this, we all bear responsibility. When we accuse teachers of grooming, when we accuse those of a different political persuasion of being pedophiles, we are part of the problem. It is time for us to be adults and to address those issues which are right in front of us.”.

  51. Michael says:

    To put all teachers in a group and call them groomers is sin.
    To call out specific instances is another matter entirely.

    Duane said no such thing…and you could have asked for clarity but you choose to keep repeating this falsehood about a godly man.

  52. Michael says:

    From now one all comments can be directed to michael@phoenixpreacher.com

    I tried to sustain community, but we have burned that table to the ground.

  53. Michael says:

    I will shut down the other thread as I find time.