Things I Think
1. I forget at times that not everyone has been here for ten years.
So…for the benefit of those who haven’t been around as long, the prayer thread is for prayer requests and praise reports only.
It has been that way from the beginning and it will be that way until the end. If the prayer I post raises questions, ask those questions in another thread. I intentionally post things that provoke thought and I intentionally post things from different traditions to do so. Theresa of Avila was a Catholic mystic. Some of her insights are beautiful and profound, some are as nutty as two scoops of Rocky Road. She’s part of our family and part of our history and I could say the amen to the piece I published. I also like Rocky Road…
2. There is a difference between protestors and rioters. Protestors deserve to be heard, rioters deserve fines and incarceration. I refuse to ignore the voices of the protest because of the crimes of the rioters.
3. In the providence of God I ran into an old friend at work today. She’s one of those people who just makes the world better because she’s in it. I thank God for people like that and ask forgiveness for not being one of them…
4. Steve Wright posed the question.. “If 1 Timothy is to be seen as a guideline for church ministry (and I sure think it is) then it seems non negotiable that the local church have a helps ministry at least to the poor people within that church.” I absolutely, completely agree. I think Paul did too…so why is the benevolence budget so small in some very large churches?
5. Roger Oakland is fading into obscurity along with the rest of the end time prophecy wonks, but not without belching out more condemnation on the way. He takes a respite from ripping Rick Warren to try to stir up some angst against Brian Brodersen in his latest screed. He presents excerpts from a recent sermon where Brodersen (correctly) defines both “evangelicalism” and “ecumenicism”. To Oakland , this reasonable theological stance is proof that Brodersen is driving CC to apostasy. To me, his article is proof that some of the CC traditionalists are as nutty as Theresa on her worst day. His tribe is sliding into the irrelevance they richly deserve.
6. If you choose to live in a theological echo chamber you have willfully chosen to only learn what you already know.Â
7. The single most difficult thing about having this blog has been the times when I truly believed that a great injustice had been done and I couldn’t do anything about it other than write an article. I believe that this has been the case with our stories on the Philippine orphanage missionary scandal…my only comfort is that God knows the truth and will make all things right some day. I don’t know what comforts Tom Randall…
8. I was at the McDonalds in WalMart the other day as T and I were going to share a large order of fries as a snack. In line in front of us was a morbidly obese woman with one of those motorized carts with Christian stickers all over it. That woman ordered the first three square feet of the menu. I assumed it was for her family…it wasn’t. It was all hers. Now…I wondered if this woman came to my church if I would be required by biblical standards to rebuke her for her obvious gluttony. I wouldn’t have…but that means I shouldn’t rebuke her if that cart was plastered with rainbows stickers next to the fish…
9. The great thing about this list is that I’ll be sound asleep if you’re mad about any of it…
10. What’s the one dogma that is so difficult to believe intellectually that you have to simply take it by faith? I don’t have any trouble with the things that raise doubts in most people…but when I look into a clear winter sky with a huge luminous moon and observe the sheer vastness of the galaxies….the idea that Jesus is coming back and shrinking it all into something comparatively small is hard to swallow. I believe it by faith, though.
Your turn…
How did I miss you have a job?? Congratulations Michael!!
“The great thing about this list is that I’ll be sound asleep if you’re mad about any of it…”
Hahahaha totally made me LOL.
Yes, I also congratulate you on the job. Hallelujah.
I don’t even want to look. Did someone really object to the prayer you posted? Some folks need to go on a cleanse. Seriously full of ‘it”.
You are hilarious. Love you! Sleep well!
#10,
The one dogma that is so difficult for me intellectually that I take it simply by faith is that Christ is actually reigning right now over this creation seated at the right hand of the Father.
Just a question I dont get the works salvation thing. Why would anyone think they can work their way into God’s favor? When I use to enjoy doing ministry or helping folks I never thought much about getting some reward. The joy was the reward, I dont even get that out of it anymore. Evangelicalism the gift that keeps on giving.
The main dogma I struggle with “intellectually’ is that of Blood. Why all the OT blood sacrifice and shedding, and how does the Blood of Jesus Christ cleanse us from sin, these 2 thousand years later. I have to accept this and many other challenges, ‘by faith’.
#1 – Amen!!
#5 – 🙂
I could probably write a lot of stuff inspired by 6. There are a lot of people who trade one echo chamber for another and think they’ve switched to the right team, made the right decision, and properly cast aside the badness of yore, without realizing that all they did was change teams and have the same mentality they did before.
Roger, Oakland…
Paige, blood is a mysterious thing, isn’t it? … my daughter who has been an E.R. nurse tells me that it has a distinct smell that you don’t easily forget… and doesn’t it have an emotional impact on most people?
do we have any evidence of the substance in Eternity? when our Lord resurrected, He spoke of flesh and bone…
calling it a night – so not trying to start something here, but you have me wondering now, too
…over and out.
helpful distinction on #2. The demands of some (individuals and groups) for the St. Louis Rams to punish the players who gave the “don’t shoot” hands up sign entering the field before yesterday’s game show over-sensitivity & lack of distinction between protest and riot.
McDonalds in Walmart…a match made in (corporate) heaven. Where else can you load your electric shopping cart with Big Macs?
Dogma difficulties? Imputed righteousness.
The relevant passage is 1 Timothy 5:16 “If any believing woman (some translations add man here too) has relatives who are widows, let her care for them. Let the church not be burdened, so that it may care for those who are truly widows”
The translation “so that” is one Greek word, ἵνα – A common adverbial conjunction for a purpose or result clause. I think it is a purpose clause here, but even if seen as a result the interpretation is the same. The church is NOT to be burdened (financially) by one category of believer so that it is able to support another category of believer (result or purpose).
Dr. Mounce (who knows a little Greek 🙂 ) wrote an exegetical commentary on the pastoral epistles for the Word Series (editor Dr. Metzger)
He writes “His concern in vv 3-16 is that the church care for widows who are truly widows, who have no one else to care for them and who have led godly lives. He also adds another concern that has only been implicit in the discussion. The church has an obligation to care for widows who truly are alone, but it cannot do this with its limited resources if families do not care for their own.”
1 Peter 2:13-17.
Makes no sense to me, and I question if Peter actually wrote this.
Michael,
I call baloney on your repeated use of calling people who believe in end times prophesy differently than you “wonks”, I think you mean this to degrade, demean, and discredit, people you consider brothers and sisters in Christ. You should stop, maybe repent would be called for.
Maybe you mean well studied and strong convictions but it does not come off that way.
The term could be easily turned towards you, in the nicest way.
And if you are going to post controversial stuff on your prayer and praise thread you should not be surprised people are going to talk about it on the thread it was posted.
Steve,
Do you think withholding from those in need who have families is a way God uses to shame those families and convict them of sin in hopes they repent?
I do, but when families continue not to respond, to are church family, don’t we have to?
Q-
And if you are going to post controversial stuff on your prayer and praise thread you should not be surprised people are going to talk about it on the thread it was posted”
You missed the point entirely. No one says people can’t talk about what’s posted in the prayer thread header…just don’t do it in the prayer thread. Take it to another thread and discuss away…those weekly threads are set aside for people to post prayer requests or praises about something.
When church is happening well, the church is the family to those lacking a family. In NT times that meant material aid for widows. In our times that will often be spending time with those who are lonely. It will mean helping each other live the life we are called to. Pastors play a big role here – not just rebuking the glutton or addict or hateful brother, but patiently helping them along.
Thanks for the job kudos.
It’s seasonal and looks like it may end very soon.
It’s better than nothing.
If you want to discuss the stuff I post on the prayer thread there are lots of places to do so here…we’ve never allowed it on that thread itself.
I predict that the whole pretrib/apostasy/antichrist/ meme will be the district minority view even among pop evangelicalism within five years. I don’t believe it can hold in the marketplace of theology when challenged in it’s present form.
Re: #3–
Do you think Charles Bowden was a joy to be around for the average waiter?
What if he ran into me at a store and I wore my clerical robe? A suit?
You’d know better than I, but I imagine he’d be a might bit prickly.
I see you the same way.
But you’re worth having around!
We can’t ALL be like Joel Osteen.
Bwahahaha
…Or If I wore a “say no to drugs” shirt?
A Ronald Reagan tshirt ?
Thanks, JTK… 🙂
I’m off to work.
#10…
Too many to count and too much to say about them for this venue. These days I’m less and less convinced in the dogma, but trying to justify just taking things on faith alone.
Just being real here. Not looking for an answer from anyone here. Thx
-mike
Some really great worship lead by pastor Oden Fong.
I recorded this in 2002 during an evening service with my mini-disk player through my head phones and was greatly surprised at how well it had turned out.
So I uploaded it to a website where others can download it to enjoy!
This is one of the typical worship services that Oden conducts.
Even though it was recorded years ago it is still so relevant in the Holy Spirit.
You will not be disappointed if you take the two minutes it takes to download this particular worship session.
http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2014/12/great-worship-session.html
Todays bible study on my blog is about the plumb-line that God lays against our walls.
How are we to perceive the laying of the plumb-line of God?
Is it a negative judgmental thing or is it a positive thing to be embraced?
http://shekinahfellowship.blogspot.com/2014/12/plumb-perfect.html
“…post controversial stuff on your prayer and praise thread…”?????
Yikes, time to get of your echo chamber!
You need to go pray with other believers who are mystics and charismatics…
Meditate and quietly listen.
The expression of the human soul towards God is simultaneously amazing and sad and revelatory and entirely personal. That’s WHY it’s prayer & praise, it flows from us humans toward God and out to the wider world, sanctifying the moment with our realizations, formed with our breath, sacred in the very act of hallowing our present Creator.
The Psalms are loaded with this vast spectrum.
You now have permission to explore & celebrate.
Gman, if i read your #25 correctly, i don’t think that you’re interpreting the admonition correctly… a, perhaps hostile, discussion had broken out and into the prayer thread on the suitability of the quote from Teresa of Avila as the heading for the week’s prayer thread… not controversial prayers
my prayers are so dull… only the Creator, Himself, can appreciate them… prayer is most definitely a heart thing – so think i’m agreeing with you on that?
for Steve Wright: Steve, can you send me your email please? ron@calvarysa.com
Hi Em,
No, I saw the kerfuffle.
I’m good with my post.
Happy holidaze =)
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/5e/dc/09/5edc09e417eb5991051837cd4831e3da.jpg
Teresa of Avila was as cool as most of the charismatics i run into at church. =)
Too bad there are still catholic haters
Michael,
I enjoyed the most recent Calvin’s Corner session. Got a good laugh on the “going emergent” part. I guess I must be emergent too 🙂
Congrats on the new job.
fyi,
pastorsteve (at) calvaryle (dot) org
I must say I am really confused about the Roger Oakland , Brian Broderson and the old and new Calvary Chapel. The Calvary Chapel traditionalists in their day are probably similar in some ways to the emergents today but just in a different era. In other words both movements in my opinion have pushed the envelope both in terms of theology and practice to a point where it’s sometimes hard to recognize the church. I’m not sure who is right or wrong but it does appear Calvary Chapel is the poster boy for American evangelicalism and maybe it’s time to for me to leave evangelicalism for something more orthodox.
“who are mystics…”
“Meditate and quietly listen”
“That’s WHY it’s prayer & praise, it flows from us humans toward God and out to the wider world, sanctifying the moment with our realizations, formed with our breath, sacred in the very act of hallowing our present Creator”
Yikes, some type of connected cosmic consciences with self realization of the sacred self and dream telepathy.
I think we are connected now.
Is G really Wayne Dyer?
Wayne, thank you for releasing me to explore and celebrate, you have reached a level of knowledge that is quite amazing, everyone should see you hold the secrets to set people free, how did you acquire this amazing knowledge?
Oh look, Q is missing the point again.
Shocking….
maybe it’s time to for me to leave evangelicalism for something more orthodox.<<<
Yep.
London,
Can you be more vague?
Q clearly drives faster than his headlights illuminate.
filbertz, If you don’t understand just ask.
Or, I will slow down for you, it is obvious this is to fast for you, it is okay, not everyone can keep up, maybe Wayne can show you the way.
I listened to the link Roger Oakland listed for Brian Broderson. Brian Broderson said this in that message:
“An evangelical is a person who holds fast to the essential orthodox Christian doctrine.”
This I am finding harder and harder to believe.
Wayne can punctuate and spell.
Then he must be right.
That was easy.
filbertz,
Please correct my spelling and punctuation’s from my earlier post @39 –
“filbertz, If you don’t understand just ask.
Or, I will slow down for you, it is obvious this is to fast for you, it is okay, not everyone can keep up, maybe Wayne can show you the way.”
Ask Wayne.
Q – yes I can.
filbertz, In the video below, which one is G, aka Wayne, and which one is you?
http://youtu.be/vu61RSmNrhA
I think G had the treats, but you are kind of cute, maybe not as persistent as the little Jack.
Q.
London is vague, G is Wayne Dyer, filbertz is a cute Jack Russell terrier.
Your credibility grows with each comment.
“Q
“London is vague”
Correct.
“G is Wayne Dyer”
Sort of.
“filbertz is a cute Jack Russell terrier”
Except the persistence.
…and Q clearly drives faster than his headlights can illuminate.
“and Q clearly drives faster than his headlights can illuminate”
filbertz,
What is it you do not understand?
filbertz,
Read what you and London wrote, there is know substance, G kind of made some new age coherence, you and London are vague or made logical fallacies.
Wrong question. There are many things I don’t understand. I don’t understand your condescending attitude toward G’s hard-earned opinion regarding Teresa of Avila, worship, and the Psalms. You didn’t seek to clarify or understand; instead, you mocked a man who sees things differently than yourself…for what end only you know. G exemplifies grace in a manner most of us can only aspire to emulate. I’ve learned over the many years he’s commented here to listen, consider, and respect his thoughts. I don’t agree with everything he believes, but so what? I know no one who agrees with everything I believe, including my wife of 35 years. So, rather than sarcastically bag on someone, perhaps you would seek first to understand what he’s really saying, extend some room for disagreement, and err on the side of grace. No one here has a corner on truth. The productive tension of this site is found in teachability, not assertion.
Tis the season to be jolly… or maybe lighten up just a little?
filbertz,
G, aka Wayne, was condescending towards me not towards what I said. I do believe I understand what G said, and you comparing Teresa of Avila to the Psalms is shameful!
Wow 35 years, what does that mean?
How long do you think I have been married?
Does it matter?
What if it is more and my wife agrees with me?
Q – at it again I see. Truly astonishing how often you skip right over the point someone makes.
New record.
London, Can you be more specific?
Yes I can
London,
Be specific, what am I missing?
Although if you leave it at “astonishing” and a “New record”, it wont be the first time and I lived with it.
“G exemplifies grace in a manner most of us can only aspire to emulate”
Idol worship.
FA la la la la, la la la la!
Interesting thread.
I like the point about the NT church giving, the widows and orphans stuff. But, I find it’s not a NT discovery, it’s Torah from the beginning. I love it when Paul teaches Torah to a non-Torah world.
G said this:
“You now have permission to explore & celebrate.”
Over the many decades my exploration and observation is this, most of us (OK just me, I guess) pray and praise like a bunch of pagan worshipers. The focus seems to be either fixing something I messed up, sacrificing something so my crops will come in, I just think the music sounds cool and puts me in what I call the “zone” or I want a tangible miracle like seeing the holes.
Yep, what I discovered is this; it really is all about me in the end and sadly even the greatest people in the hall of faith seem to fail in the very same way. Is that something to celebrate or maybe weep over?
Now Q I’m not so sure about????
Are you trying to point to that enigmatic source of NT gospel stories through your handle? If so a bit too clever for most.
I have a meeting tomorrow and on Thursday concerning my job and my work related injury. I had a long diatribe I deleted. Please pray for me. Thanks.
brian
Will do.
hmmm…i thought it was a James Bond reference.
Good luck in your meeting tomorrow, Brian
Michael – I must have missed the announcement about your new job. Congrats my friend.
I find it’s not a NT discovery,
—————————————-
Of course not. God’s care for the widow (and orphan) and the poor in general is from cover to cover.
Fil, right on with #54!
Sometimes we just need to ignore ignorance.
In regards to #4 widows and orphans. In the OT The Lord through Moses certainly communicated clearly to the nation of Israel on how widows and orphans were to be cared for. ( Deut 10:18, Deut 14:29,Deut 24:20-21, Psalms 10:18, Psalms 82:3) We certainly need to be doing the same today, not less. Paul exhorted the early Church to do so.
Ultimatley caring for widows and orphans is one of the most exalting forms of worshiping Christ. It is an honor to care for these most vulnerable yet most precious souls. As a body we certainly miss out on the blessings when we choose to ignore this group, whether intentionally or unintentionally.