Things I Think

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44 Responses

  1. gomergirl says:

    I am glad I waited.
    I am not sure about climate change. Haven’t there always been shifts in the long term climate? To me it is like saying “I am getting gray hair” Kind of a given in the whole cycle of life.

    As for Romans 13…. some people are so sure they are right, that they have to change scripture to fit with their agenda. Same as it has always been. I really struggle with having any respect for any authority in this country. And I struggle with the idea of submitting to said authority. But I am obviously needing to change to conform to God and his word, not the other way around.
    Funny that you bring this up, as I was reading about an open letter to Franklin Graham from some “faith leaders” on his saying that people should not resist the police and go along with what they say, to avoid harm and possible injury. I get what he is saying, in light of this passage, but my flesh has a hard time agreeing….. except the writers of the letter seemed pretty hateful and that makes me wonder as to their motives. I also wonder how that scripture is read in light of Christians who helped Jews and other persecuted people in Germany in the 30’s and 40’s or the Christians who marched for civil rights….. just trying to wrap my mind around it all. I sometimes have a hard time with that.

  2. Neo says:

    Yes, just the line on “one faith, one baptism” alone was worth the wait.

  3. Michael says:


    The way I’ve always understood that passage is that God appoints the rulers and whether they bring good or evil we are to submit to them…unless we are commanded to disobey based on the fact that our obedience would violate Scripture.

    I can’t find a single scholarly commentary that says otherwise.

    There have been times when I wanted to blast the President…and his opposition.

    I don’t believe it’s biblical to do so…disagree, yes… blast, no.

  4. Em says:

    #1 agree
    #2 pretty safe bet, but there’s drought up here, too – we’re biting our nails up here as last year was cataclysmic – don’t know if i can survive another summer of being on alert: 1,2, 3-go every single day with smoke hanging too heavy to work outdoors… i suspect that the Colombia will soon go the way of the Rio Grande either by drought or siphons
    #3 Romans 13 is pretty clear unless one is trying to lawyer it – some folk are just too forensic for their own spiritual good
    #5 amen
    #10 IMO the list has some good ponders… we can only ponder just so much in one week anyway
    hope i’m not first… and then no one follows and then i think my presumptive opinionating has killed the thread

  5. Michael says:

    Thank you both…it’s been a hard day and I’m not real holy right now.
    Practically, that is.
    Positionally, I’m a saint. 🙂

  6. Michael says:


    You’re gold…never worry about that.

  7. dswoager says:

    Had a short conversation with a friend about evolution and climate change. I think that we came to the conclusion that our only hope of unity is the antivaxxers.

  8. EricL says:

    #1 and 2- we will not leave the sunny southwest. Instead, we will make more smog as we find ways to steal your water. We will make you are dry as the Owens Valley or flood your natural wonders to create reservoirs like Hetch Hetchy. That’s the CA way 🙂
    (Not sure what Nevada or Arizona will do- maybe try to win your water rights in a poker game)
    #10 Apology accepted, but I want you to install an Express Line on the blog. I need my fix of the Michael-musings and I need ’em fast. (Actually, I’m just happy you share so regularly. Thank you.)

  9. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    What is global warming – 10,000 years ago (perhaps 10 million – I don’t know) 80% of the earth was covered with ice and Wholly Mammoths and Sabre Toothed Tigers ruled the world.

    The earth warmed and the ice melted long before man or automobiles. It continues to this day. Learn to accept it – we will adapt or in 10,000 years mosquitos will rule the world. Does anyone really care?

  10. Michael says:

    Thanks, EricL. 🙂

    Even without drought conditions the aquifers that supply everything from West Texas west are going to be depleted sooner than later.
    I get hung up reading strange stuff…

  11. Eric says:

    Climate change as a political issue: If our actions (ie putting lots of CO2 into the air) are a cause of climate change and if contuining those actions is going to continue to have adverse effects on the planet, then it is important that we change our ways and legislative/political decisions (of the “big government” kind) will need to be made. If our actions will not make the world any worse, then it is unnecessary to change our ways.

    Of course, it is easy to find someone who will tell you what you want to believe. The oil companies sponsor studies that show us all is well, and those who want to sell clean energy solutions instead want us to be warned of the coming apocalypse.

    My view is more of the old-time greenie: I believed the increasing amounts of CO2 in the air were a problem before I heard about climate change. Worse, that fact that richer countries were benefitting from polluting the atmosphere that the whole earth shares. As a child, my imagined solution was an arrangement where polluters are taxed and the proceeds shared, so poor non-polluting countries have a net profit.

  12. The Dude says:

    Climate change yes..the climate has been changing since the beginning. Pollution is a problem that needs to be dealt with.

  13. Francisco Nunez says:

    No doubt that mankind needs to hear Romans 1 as much as Rom 13 or any other chapter. We can say that as followers of Christ, we don’t have the freedom to consume only certain books from the counsel of God rather we must be nourished by the whole counsel of God……… otherwise we will have deficiencies in our spiritual health. Physically as much we need and enjoy that fillet mignon loaded with protein, we also need the collard greens. The greens aren’t as appealing but are just as essential. This principle applies to God’s Children in terms of spiritual nutrition if we are going to grow spiritually.

    As far as #9 goes, Michael I think you summed it up in one sentence a couple weeks ago on C’s Corner. “May we appreciate those of other traditions, learn from them, and most importantly love them as Christ loves them”.

    May we not become estranged in the body but have unity of charity for one another.
    Be Blessed this week Michael.

  14. Rob says:

    #1. Few people have actually read or listened to the actual climate scientists, so are easily confused by the science deniers. As for politics, the real issue is:

    If you don’t like the solution, deny the problem.

  15. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Rob, is it a problem or just a natural happening? Where did all the ice go? Rising seas are only an issue because we built right on the coast line. If we changed zoning regulations so in 100 years all properties had to be moved back 1/4 mile from the coast, then we have solved that problem—– Next! . 😉

  16. Francisco says:

    Matt 28:19 as do other texts command us to go and make disciples of all nations. It is obvious that carrying out this command from Jesus often makes it necessary to break the laws in those nations where it is against the law of the land to share the gospel.

    We can say that Paul, James, and many of the first apostles lost their lives simply because sharing the gospel went against the earthly rulers of the time. We have many brothers today in prison simply because they broke the law of the land by sharing the gospel.

  17. Alex says:

    “Climate Change” is largely a Straw Man.

    The real issue is this: Will (if true) Man-caused Global Warming cause the Apocalypse?

    Well, if you accept the premise that there is Man-caused Global Warming…there are a lot of scientists who don’t believe it will cause the end of the world…in fact some think some warming is good.

    One question that all Scientists agree with 100%: Will Global Warming stop the next Ice Age from occurring? No, it will not.

  18. Alex says:

    Regarding Romans 13….

    If God is truly Good and truly Love…then Romans 13 is misinterpreted and not an absolute (i.e. Hitler, Stalin/Soviet era communism, all the corrupt and evil “authorities” throughout man’s history at every level….and the fact that the US govt./authority today promotes Abortion, etc.)

    God is truly Good and truly Love.

    Therefore Romans 13 is misinterpreted and not an absolute.

  19. Alex says:

    If the Governing Authority told you you couldn’t practice our faith…would you obey it?

    The Governing Authorities in many nations and many Authority Constructs have done such….

    The Romans verse is not an absolute and contradicts much of the rest of the bible.

  20. Alex says:

    Transgender is bull****

    If Transgender is true and acceptable without biological evidence…then I am black b/c I feel black…and I want affirmative action now you honky a** crackers!!! 🙂

  21. Alex says:


  22. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I was in a Jewish body but I always felt I was to be a Christian – so I had a Spirit reassignment – from satanic to Godly..

  23. Plucked Brand says:

    As for climate change, there’s an interesting article written by the founder of Greenpeace who doesn’t buy it and believes we need more CO2 in the atmosphere…

    I agree with Michael on Rom. 13 – we obey unless the obedience causes us to disobey God. I’ve been trying to train myself to react towards our political leaders(both sides) the way Paul does in 1Tim. 2 – Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    To me, the overarching issue is people need to be saved and come to know Jesus – when that happens, the major issues take care of themselves, so I’m trying to turn my venting and frustration into prayers and supplications – the true power to change our world.

  24. Alex says:

    MLD your analogy is false.

    A person’s sex is biological akin to a person’s race. There is physical evidence to support the classification of gender or race. DNA, physiological manifestations, gender plumbing etc. that is not a “choice” or a “feeling”

    Your analogy tries to compare a religious/philosophical conclusion/opinion to something that is biological.

    You are comparing apples to philosophy.

  25. Kevin H says:

    Climate change can have serious implications. Serious implications if there are activities being carried on by man that go unchecked and are having significant detrimental effects on the environment, affecting most particularly the poor. And serious implications if there are effects that are mainly natural and not man caused and yet we put in place regulations that are economically harmful, most particularly to the poor. Unfortunately, it is an issue that has become highly politicized where people (politicians, scientists & the average joes) are much more inclined to speak in false absolutes and to mock the other side than they are to have any kind of irenic discussion about the issues.

  26. Alex – it was a joke. Pull the stick out.

  27. Em says:

    climate change question: if we ‘use’ water and it evaporates into the atmosphere, where does it go? it must come down somewhere ? ? ? or do the vapors just go on into outer space thru one of those holes in the atmosphere or something? ? ?

    it seems logical to me that the earth’s surface could rearrange or something… maybe the Gobi Desert will be the next rainforest – save the rainforest

  28. Alex says:

    “Alex – it was a joke. Pull the stick out.”

    LOL, my bad.

  29. Surfer51 says:

    4. If you think Romans 13 is irrational, by all means avoid the Sermon on the Mount…

    Or you could embrace it…

  30. Surfer51 says:

    ” #1. I think climate change is a fact…I just don’t know if it’s part of a natural cycle or if man has an effect on it as well. What I don’t understand is why this has become a divisive political issue…”


    “#2. I think the next great people migration may be people in the American Southwest heading for the American Northwest in search of water. Groundwater is a resource you can exhaust…”

  31. Ixtlan says:

    Interesting thought on climate change. We had the warmest winter in 40 years here. My family on the East coast had the most snow since 25-30 years ago.

    ” Despite all our differences there is “one faith, one Lord, and one baptism”. Naturally, we won’t agree on what that means either…”

    Yep. How many different ways is that verse sliced and diced? I think most Christians are too uncomfortable with living in the tension of peaceful unity with believers who do not see things the same as they do. A lot of it has to do with such emotional investment in what they consider to be true. That is to say, their Christianity is a whole lot more about them and how they understand their world (epistemology) than anything else. Our souls are riddled with our own self absoption.

  32. Donner says:

    Calling attention to error does not equate to disobedience. I believe Obama’s stance on a number of issues is just plain wrong. Saying so doesn’t place me in a posture of disobeying the government.

    Apply that logic to those calling attention to abuse in the church. Are they being disobedient — or standing up for righteousness?

  33. We hear this statement all the time on the news – “We had the warmest winter in 30 years here.” Well, all that means is that we have had warm and cold period in cycles probably forever.

    The snowfall this winter, they said was the greatest since the Buffalo blizzard in 1977. So what does that mean? Well, I take it to mean we have seen these exact same weather patterns in our lifetimes.

    Don’t worry, be happy – I taught that yesterday from from the Sermon on the Mount – Matt ch 6.

  34. Jim says:

    Climate change is a religion.

  35. Erik says:

    Global Warming is all about selling ” Cap and Trade”. Cap and Trade is all about taxation and Government control, picking winners and losers through regulation. Al Gore is one of the main share holders of the international carbon market exchange market. This will put him in billionaire status. Scientists lie and do it to keep there jobs and get gov grants. Its pseudo science in the sense that its man made.

  36. dswoager says:

    Came across a blog a couple weeks ago commenting on some people from Answers in Genesis talking about their stance in opposition to the idea of climate change. Seems like they thought that climate change with man as the catalyst would be an affront to the soverignty of God.

    Isn’t one of our big biblical narratives not only the fallen nature of man, but also the broken nature of creation that follows from that?

    It was an atheist blog and both sides seemed to have similar, but opposing views. God is in control, so don’t worry about climate change vs God is in control so climate change shows he is evil/ God should be in control so climate change shows he doesn’t exist, or is incompetant.

    It would seem like a more thoughtful study of scripture would defuse both points of view, but can only really be expected from the Christian party in the dicussion.

  37. Kevin H says:

    So adding a little more to my climate change comments from yesterday, I think there are many more issues besides global warming, although global warming is seemingly always the main one to draw attention. For instance, there are issues with pollution, particularly water and air pollution that can directly affect people’s health. Issues with these types of pollution appear to be most dire in countries like China which are having industrial booms with little or no regulation. But it is not limited to only countries like China.

    Global warming, on the other hand, is a harder one to nail down because the direct causes and effects are not nearly as easily determinable. So as the issue has become highly politicized, people treat it the way they do with many political issues and set out to demonize and mock the “other side”. The one side acts like man-made global warming and its soon to come apocalyptic results is settled science (which it is far from being so) and they belittle and mock those who would even dare question their position. On the other side, you have those who act like anybody who has a concern about global warming is a wack-a-doo and speak as if they know for sure global warming isn’t real, most especially that humans have nothing to do with it. And many of those, from both sides, who speak mockingly on the issue seemingly don’t even have more than a superficial knowledge on the issue. And maybe even worse are when the experts speak mockingly about the issue when they do know that the “other side” does have some legitimate arguments. And in the end, all these condescending attitudes and speaking in absolutes gets us nowhere towards determining how to best handle the issue.

    I personally, from my limited study of the issue, do not think that global warming poses a grave danger and that humans have little to do with it. At this point in time, I think the damage of potential regulations being put in place beyond what we already have is a higher risk of causing damage than the risk of man-made global warming causing damage. But I am willing to listen to those who think otherwise and am not going to mock them for thinking so. And I would probably be much more receptive to those who speak respectfully, rather than those who speak in mocking absolutes.

  38. Anne says:

    These words are golden, Kevin! “… I am willing to listen to those who think otherwise and am not going to mock them for thinking so. And I would probably be much more receptive to those who speak respectfully, rather than those who speak in mocking.”

  39. Anne says:

    …mocking absolutes”,that is. My first attempt at cut/ paste from phone 🙂

  40. Alex says:


    The irony of your ponderings is that China’s rampant pollution is actually CAUSED by the environmental extremism in the US.

    The US Environmentalists killed manufacturing here in the US with over-regulation…and the Big Corporations simply exported the pollution to China….and now we have more pollution than had the Enviros in the US been more responsible toward industry here.

    It’s like pushing on a balloon…they stamped out a bit of pollution in US and Europe…but China and Mexico and other nations where all the industry and factories ran off to simply produced a ton more pollution in lightly-regulated regions.

    The Big Green Cause has actually created much more pollution than it has solved…and the American Worker and the American Middle Class has suffered for that disaster (economically).

  41. Kevin H says:


    I wouldn’t say that U.S. environmental extremism is “the” cause of rampant pollution in China as I believe China needs to take responsibility for what they allow to happen, but there is truth to what you say. While I’m not all up on all the environmental regulations we have in place, from what I do know, some regulation has struck me as reasonable and needed while other regulation as being over the top and potentially harmful in other ways, such as you posit about China.

  42. Alex says:

    “I wouldn’t say that U.S. environmental extremism is “the” cause”

    Agreed, not “the” cause….but a major cause of the dynamics in play that have seen Industry move overseas and south of the border.

    It also works in pulling rural folks out of China’s farming areas and moving masses of folks to the Big City…whereas they used to ride donkeys and pull carts…they now drive motorcycles and automobiles…ergo…MORE POLLUTION.

    It’s really a double-edged sword. Sending Factories to lightly regulated parts of the world and then Urbanizing masses of formerly rural peoples.

    Net-net…a huge BOOM in pollution…and no way to stop it.

  43. Alex says:

    Any way you slice it, Globalization and moving Third World countries and peoples and “Emerging Markets” into Civilization and away from Agrarian Societies….you are going to increase Pollution exponentially.

    As the Billions of humans in China and India alone become less Agrarian, any efforts at Environmentalism in the US and Europe won’t matter.

    Simple logic and reason…but I guess it’s not simple…just to some.

  44. filbertz says:

    The shift of pollution to third world countries is simply another way developed nations take advantage of developing nations. The trade off for low wage jobs which provide us cheaper products and huge corporate profits is polluted air and water that will sicken their children and susceptible and not “ours”. It doesn’t hurt our middle class as much as it hurts their overall societies.

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