Things I Think

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35 Responses

  1. Judy says:

    Michael: I think there are people who really glombed onto the healing thing and “got it”. They are not your ordinary Christian types and so people will say they had the gift of faith or something else, but there is so much to be learned by them.

    There is no one in this ilk who has done more to build my faith than Smith Wigglesworth (healing aside, this man had FAITH), Andrew Murray and Derek Prince. When I read any of their writings, I am so strengthened by their faith and courage to believe boldly and stand on scripture as if God meant it.

    I’m not sure that we believe that God really meant it, at least in the sense that we can believe it and He will make it manifest or that we can be partakers of the divine nature through the promises.

    The Complete Works of Smith Wigglesworth is life changing. And even if you really doubt the healing part, you cannot deny the faith that made that man into who he was.

  2. Cash says:

    Being a huge Seahawks fan, I was delighted when the field goal missed. Delighted but also in shock. I too heard the tripe about God being for the Seahawks and against the Vikings, as if God even cares about football. I like the distinction you draw between the Bengals players shirking responsibility and the Vikings kicker who accepted all responsibility. I think there is a lesson in there somewhere about confession and repentance.

  3. dswoager says:

    On the other hand, a kicker can miss one big kick and get cut, while Pacman Jones is probably the very sports metaphor we were looking for when we needed one for Mark Driscoll.

  4. Ellen G. White Disciple says:

    I think David Bowie is asleep in the grave waiting for one of the two ressurections. Viking loss crushed me and my friends but hey they showed heart and character throughout the year including yesterday.

  5. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Unless someone knows what a person confessed with their mouth, how else would you know a person’s eternal fate?

    If someone were say by their lifestyle and works, then I would say that that someone is not going to heaven, as a Christian would not speak that way.

  6. gomergirl says:

    Honestly, and I fear to say this on Facepants…. I really don’t care about David Bowie. Whatever dimension or place or state he is in, it is what it is and there is nothing that i can help by either speculating or posthumously canonizing him. I never met him, i hope someone offered Jesus to him. There.

    Football…. Didn’t the Timbers already win the championship? (LOL! just my little joke)

    As for others, I am really working on trying to figure out my own salvation. I have no hope in anything but Jesus, and right now, I am not even sure what that looks like. I am so tired of being surrounded by anger and angst, I just don’t even know how to center my insides so I can deal and make sense with what is going on outside of me.

    and as for #9, I wonder too, pray continuously for it, knowing it can happen, but sceptical that it will….. I am praying for Trey too.

  7. Michael says:


    I hear you…we’re all working out our own salvation in fear and trembling.
    Thank you for praying…it makes a difference.

  8. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    As to #10
    “but I’m looking forward more to having the tears wiped from eyes than seeing my β€œenemies” destroyed.”

    Is anyone looking forward to seeing their enemies destroyed? Do we read this anywhere? I don’t even think that the worst of the worst Hal Lindsey book ever held that up as motivation for ushering the end times.

    In other words – that’s a new one to me.

  9. Kevin H says:

    I do think God cares about football. I think He cares because He cares about the joy that it brings to those playing and watching and all the more so the joy that is brought in victory. While correspondingly caring about the despair brought to the losers. Beyond the results of the game, I think God cares about the character and behavior of those playing the game and even watching. So I do think God cares about what happens in a football game.

    That being said, I am sure that there are many things more important to God than football. And for those that claim in victory that God is being faithful to them or that God somehow directed the victory, they are speaking where they should not.

  10. Michael says:


    To these folks, anyone who doesn’t buy fully into their system is their enemy and an enemy of God.
    If you haven’t read that, go read my Facebook page for five minutes…

  11. Em says:

    #10-this has no theological underpinnings that i am aware of, but what if there were a head-count connected with our Lord’s return, i.e., when the number of redeemed souls equals the number of the fallen angels?
    my point is? what if we had concentrated, from A.D.1 on, on a prayer covered spreading of the gospel to every living soul? what if we had left the finer points of theology to be settled at the feet of our Master in Eternity future? what if we weren’t so picky about who we invite to come to Jesus or how properly we present Him? hmmm … probably irrelevant to the eschatology of the theology – or is that the theology of the eschatology? πŸ™‚

  12. Cash says:

    “As for others, I am really working on trying to figure out my own salvation. I have no hope in anything but Jesus, and right now, I am not even sure what that looks like. I am so tired of being surrounded by anger and angst, I just don’t even know how to center my insides so I can deal and make sense with what is going on outside of me. ”


    Thank you for perfectly encapsulating in just a few lines exactly how I feel at this moment but could not express.

  13. Michael says:


    Much wisdom there…much.

  14. Em says:

    Judy @#1 – my son, who lives on an island, was life flighted to the mainland with a heart attack last year… when i got word i prayed and i requested prayers from the PhxP’s family here… the cardiologist treated him and a day later he was cleared to return to the island with instructions to have follow up tests at the medical facility there … he has no symptoms now and even did some carpentry chores for my daughter over New Years
    we’re all looking at each other and, yes, i have given God the credit for hearing our prayers, but it is so hard to claim such a miracle… my faith is too small, but somebody, some prayer warrior who lurks here? somebody’s faith … ? … i think so…
    Lord, we honor You, Your love and mercies and wait on a miracle for Your son, Michael now, too

  15. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “what if we had left the finer points of theology to be settled at the feet of our Master in Eternity future?”

    I for one believe that the finer points of theology are the very things that (1) make us Christian and (2) not Mormon or other sects who claim to be Christianity but have no fine points of theology.

    These discussion happen only amongst Christian as an inside baseball feature to the faith- not with unbelievers we wish to witness to.

  16. nathan priddis says:


    #9 Sorry to hear your not well.

    #7 It’s because I asked the Lord for a favour in the forth quarter. Like the sound of a rushing wind..shoooshh… the Spirit descended… and the ball hooked left.

    #5 What do you mean exactly?

  17. Em says:

    well, MLD, perhaps, then the question should be, what are the finer points of theology in your mind?
    most sects are full of finer points of theology of their own construct are they not?
    “What think ye of Christ?”
    beyond that – study and teach, if called as you are, but do so gently as some sheep are weaker and you can’t be sure just who among us is that weaker one IMHO

  18. filbertz says:

    I bought a lottery ticket for Saturday night’s drawing, and I’ll likely buy one for Wednesday’s. If I don’t, I can’t win. But I’ll only buy one because it will take a miracle for me to win against those odds. The lottery isn’t part of my financial plan, and I’ll buy one less Americano with cream to finance the ticket. No real hope attached to it for me, but if I win, it will be an enormous responsibility to undertake.

    I guess there’s no gimmies in football, just as there are none on the PGA tour. Pros sometimes drop sure completions, fumble easy handoffs, muff simple punts, get faked out of easy tackles. No surprise that a field goal in zero degree weather could be shanked…but surprising nonetheless. I was actually resigned to a Seahawk defeat…

    Grace is all about gimmies–perhaps Bowie was a recipient.

  19. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Em, I don’t get the hesitancy to teach theology boldly. When I teach my grandkids math I don’t tell them 2 + 2 can be any of the following options (4; 5; 7)

    As to weaker, if I can I want to make the weaker (not to be confused with meeker) to be more bold.

    To the unbeliever I teach gently – “come to Jesus or you are out of the will”. πŸ˜‰

  20. Xenia says:

    The thing is, two conflicting ideas can’t both be correct at the same time. If two of us hold differing views, either one of us or neither of us are right but we can’t both be right. We can say “it’s all a mystery, who knows!” but, for example, either baptism saves us or is doesn’t. For me, this is not a secondary issue. I am not a post-modernist who says there is no truth or that finding the truth isn’t important.

  21. Em says:

    the eucharist, the baptism’s efficacy these are things that one can teach gently and with sincerity and each of us can consider the validity – what a wonderful opportunity Michael gives to the ones who wish to share their call for the need to do so…
    those who see obedience as better than sacrifice and who partake in remembrance and submit to a water baptism as an instruction to be followed after one’s redemption should do that…
    however… the gospel should be firmly and kindly presented without any compromise… if you believe that water baptism saves and someone to whom you have presented the gospel comes to believe it, then by all means go get some water – quick! it can’t hurt

  22. Em says:

    “Em, I don’t get the hesitancy to teach theology boldly.” are bold and gentle conflicting terms?
    math is pretty much a clear absolute, tho – not the best analogy to theology where, ultimately, God the Holy Spirit is our teacher
    IMNSHO – again

  23. j2theperson says:

    ***There is no one in this ilk who has done more to build my faith than Smith Wigglesworth (healing aside, this man had FAITH),***

    The story I’ve heard about him that sticks out most in my mind is how he kicked a baby like a football and somehow miraculously healed him by doing so. Sorry, as far as I’m concerned, you can’t intentionally kick a baby and be a good Christian. Even if the baby got healed, the mere act of kicking it like a football shows such a completely disregard for life and dignity and the value of other people–to say nothing of the most vulnerable people–that I cannot view Smith Wigglesworth as someone you should aspire to be like in anyway. Kicking babies is flat out evil.

  24. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Well, unlike many I don’t think there are only 6 primary issues in Christianity and everything else is a secondary issue to be left open to how someone feels.

    However, even what some would called a secondary issue can and should be argued for boldly as many of those affect how we really understand the “primary” issues.

    An example – Israel could be considered a secondary issue (I may even consider it a non issue), but some really weird teaching have come out of it – that you see in some of the primary issues.

  25. Em says:

    Wigglesworth? had to google him – an odd duck, but, in his defense i read that the baby that he kicked had already been declared dead – shock!!! – a strange man and a strange time
    i suspect that today we don’t realize how much of the mores of our cultural have shifted and how much of the population was permeated with and dependent upon ‘old wives tales’, that said, IMV the whole pentecostal movement was a bit scary… still, the O.T. has some very strange ducks that God seemed to make good use of… even some of the incidents in the N.T. seem strange, so i’m willing to just wait and see what God reveals at judgement time… or sooner, perhaps? – dunno
    but i suspect we’d all agree here: don’t give anybody an infant or an adult, dead or alive, to kick … just sayin πŸ™„

  26. brian says:

    I was sorry for the loss of Mr. Bowie he was truly a talented though rather strange bird. This is one of my favorite duets and one of my favorite Christmas songs.

    I am not much of a sports fan even though we have Supper Bowl 50 right down the street, I am trying to figure which protest I will join to see if I can get a look at some of the players. πŸ™‚

    Some of those protests have some great food.

    Can I ask an honest question, why do some conservatives and some Christians loath public teachers so much?

  27. Em says:

    brian, i loath SOME public teachers, the ones who are cruel and the ones who have their own agenda which has nothing to do with the “3 R’s”… they are untouchables for the most part (those caught involving their students with their libidos excepted) – my children (4) went through 4 districts in 2 states and 3 of those districts i have the highest of respect for – but the fourth one? the list of egregious behavior that i became aware of is as long as my arm and yet 75% of the teachers were top notch, but were forced to pick up the slack for the rest (one grammar school teacher made a little, bright oriental boy’s life miserable, even physically assaulting him – when made aware of it, her superiors ignored the problem – one very popular high school science teacher loved to have my daughter’s girl friend sit on his lap while he ‘counseled’ her – i learned years later)… so this conservative Christian thinks the education system needs reforming, but it has nothing to do with my conservatism or my Faith … well, i guess that’s not quite true is it? you asked, brian take care and hope you find a cause with good food to join up with down there πŸ™‚

  28. Em says:

    #26 hit a nerve (obviously) should have added that i have one high school school teacher daughter – for whom i have the highest regard… let’s see Obama says ‘global warming’ is the world’s biggest challenge and conservatives worry about national security… why not put at the top of the list of our challenges the integrity that we nurture in our younguns?
    brian, i have a regard for you and the folks who do what you do also – let the record show…
    hmmm… maybe i should make a list – for my own edification – of all the folk that i consider the pillars of society… not many are popular, powerful or rich πŸ™‚

  29. j2theperson says:

    ***Wigglesworth? had to google him – an odd duck, but, in his defense i read that the baby that he kicked had already been declared dead – shock!!! – a strange man and a strange time***

    The baby was not dead in the version I heard. It had some kind of deformity with its limbs or spine or something. But, even if it were dead, that would not make things better. You don’t brutalize dead bodies like that–much less little baby bodies. The guy did at least one horrendously evil thing–a horrendously evil thing that it held up by his followers as something admirable. I don’t understand why he was so twisted and I don’t understand why his followers and admirers are so twisted. There is absolutely no way intentionally kicking a baby–whether that baby is alive or dead–is every acceptable or appropriate. The mere fact that this even needs to be stated just emphasizes how morally bankrupt Smith Wigglesworth and his admirers are.

  30. brian says: Posted without comment which I deleted because I dont know how to say what I wish to say.

  31. Josh the Baptist says:

    Smith Wigglesworth – For whatever he may have been when he lived on this earth, he is now nothing more than a collection of tall tales. He’s the Christian Paul Bunyan.

  32. j2theperson says:

    Paul Bunyan never kicked a baby.

  33. Josh the Baptist says:

    Nor did Smith Wigglesworth. But you are right. It is an awful story.

  34. Babylon's Dread says:

    I always love this little Monday walk through the mind of a pilgrim warrior.

  35. Chris Long says:

    I absolutely believe in divine healing, but some of the stories I have heard preachers mention of things that Wigglesworth did have given me similar feelings as j2theperson. As Josh mentions tho, hard to separate truth from fact. Based on what I’ve heard though, I have never had any desire to look up to the man (rightly or wrongly on my part) and don’t understand why some preachers use those stories to try to make points.

    OTOH, you find some really trippy stuff in the Bible. In 2 Kings 4, you find Elisha fully laying on top of a dead child and putting his mouth on the dead child a couple of times bringing him back to life. Of course that’s different from kicking them, but still…unusual stuff…

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