Things I Think
1.The inevitable decline of American evangelicalism is being exacerbated by the intense division politically in this country. We no longer care if we offend, insult, or enrage our brethren because Christian community values have almost officially been relegated to minor concerns, if any is given at all.
The post election carnage will be more than the institution can bear and leave it little more than a war zone of competing zealots.
Yes, I’m pointing out the obvious, but you’d think we would care…
2. Thinking about praying is like almost calling some one…
3. The older liturgically based churches will come through this season well because their service is not based on the whims of the senior pastor…
4. Warren Throckmorton has this story about how many staff have left Gospel For Asia in the last year. There is nothing more odious to me than the fact that former board members like Skip Heitzig refuse to speak to these matters and by their silence affirm evil.
5. Baseball has become a cultural fossil. The game is one of pace, patience, layer, and nuance…none of which fit the current cultural temperament. That is sad, indeed.
6. Baseball and reading a real book have the problems…
7. Roger Oakland and the traditional wing of Calvary Chapel want a piece of Brian Brodersen bad... and this video won’t help CCCM’s case.
8. The part of the bible that teaches about youth pastors is right next to the part about which political party you must vote for…
9. Life changes dramatically when you realize that you’re living in your personal end times whether the world is or not…
10. When did this become optional? “Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand; do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.”
(Philippians 4:4–7 ESV)
I’m having a hard time generating concern for the decline of American evangelicalism. Most of its rise was based on cultural cues which have run their course as well. The Church will stand.
Your observation 9 is so true. Few things cut through the BS like mortality.
Baseball…now they’re talking of messing with the strike zone to make the game move, faster, generate more offence, and raise interest…they’ll ruin the beautiful game for sure.
“10. When did this become optional? “Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice. Let your reasonableness be known to everyone….”
There is a dichotomy in American culture between “strength” and “weakness”. Strength is considered virtuous and weakness is a vice.
But what gets counted as “weakness” are terms such as forgiving, peaceful, patient, reasonable, etc.. So, Christianity which attaches itself to American culture has to shed many of the biblical attributes of its namesake. But it is remaking Him in a different image (let the reader imagine).
Fil,
Well said…
Jean,
Your last paragraph is true and should shake us from our idolatry and truly “false Gospel”.
Does anyone have a clue who Head is? And why do they have Whosoever in their name? You must really need to be an insider to even have a clue what they were talking about in the beginning of that video from Oakland?
MLD,
They do Thursday nights at CCCM.
Ryan Ries is Rauls kid
I had the privilege of sharing on Thursday night at CCCM for Shine with Ryan. It was such a great night of getting to reach people that I’d say most of us Christians don’t get to normally. I’m glad Costa Mesa is willing to provide this kind of opportunity.
CCCM has hooked up with John Crowder and Jonathan Welton???? If so, Oakland just may be right. I am only 8 min in but if this is what they are up to… well let’s just say they have gone over to the dark side.
This is not just cultural stuff to draw people in – if they keep going to see this stuff every Thursday, they will make false professions and remain damned.
John Crowder is absolutely crazy and Jonathan Welton, although he seems like a nice guy is just as crazy. I have looked at a lot of his materials – but I can’t remember for sure, but isn’t he of the grave sucking movement?
MLD,
One of the members of the band hangs out with some highly questionable characters.
It would be incorrect to say that CCCM has hooked up with the insane.
It would be correct that I would flush the Thursday night nonsense in a heartbeat…
#7- The video reminds me of an article by Roger Olson last week about fundamentalism. It isn’t enough that you separate from the “bad folks”, but you also must separate from those who dare to associate with the wrong people.
Some aged rock star hangs out with folks who are questionable in their theology… sad. A handful of pastors try to paper over his lack of discernment… sadder. Another “pastor” tries to paint the rock star as satanic and the pastors as tools of Satan… saddest of all.
What a miserable life those CC Fundies must lead, always worrying about catching cooties from someone who may have touched someone who was sneezed on by an untouchable (anyone who isn’t as doctrinally pure as they are).
The rock star is part of their ministry team at CCCM? I missed that in Oakland’s screed.
The problem with poo-pooing the video because it was made by a fundy is, by so doing, we overlook what CCCM is trying to gloss over. Laughing at a lack of “perfect theology” (and even the phrase) is exactly what led my house church—also fans of John Crowder—down the rabbit hole of heresy.
Head and Ryan Ries have some major repenting to do, otherwise Thursday nights at CCCM are in for a treat…
“One of the members of the band hangs out with some highly questionable characters.”
So did Jesus & His friends.
So does God, all the time
So do i whenever I visit this place, it feels like home
“look what the cat drug in…”
…always highly appropriate
Anyone read this yet?
http://www.thenewmystics.com/Groups/1000036248/Home_Page_of/About_Us/What_We_Believe/What_We_Believe.aspx
or this?
http://www.thenewmystics.com/Groups/1000036768/Home_Page_of/About_Us/Locate_God/Locate_God.aspx
There was a guy who had some cogent thoughts on something quite similar
“So in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone. Let them go! For if their purpose or endeavor is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God.”
( |o )====:::
He doesn’t hang around with some highly questionable characters – he is the highly questionable character.
MLD,
So am I, so are you, so is everybody.
My big questions are,
Is he, are they kind?
Is he, are they welcoming & loving?
Are widows and orphans getting fed, clothed, housed?
Are lives changed for the better?
Are broken families being healed?
According to the statements of faith and how to locate God, there’s a whole lot that is a great basis for christian spirituality, so if anyone goes off course there can be an appeal to those stated things and it can be fixed.
On our journies with God we mess up.
ML messed up about Jewish people.
Many of our Southern mess up about Black people.
Call it out and lovingly embrace and attempt to engage but don’t write anyone off.
Shouldn’t the “testimony” churches share and focus be the testimony of the Redeemer?
Jean,
Not primarily.
Fruit, actions springing from character are to be the distinctive of those who name Jesus as their God.
God calls His people, He tells them they are to be a blessing.
Anyone can carve laws into tablets.
Only He can change the character and therefore the choices of those who He calls and empowers.
MLD,
“Head” is Brian Welch’s stage name. When I was in High School he played in the band Korn, then became a christian. I guess he plays shows with Korn again since the other guys have kicked their drug habits or something. But it makes sense for him to keep the stage name since it’s what the kids from the sub culture he is trying to reach know him as.
It would be the same for Peter Hernandez (Bruno Mars), Reggie Dwight (Elton John), David Evans (The Edge) or Marvin Aday (Meatloaf) i suppose.
Choosing to share your lunch among a crowd of over 5,000 because this Jesus guy says something which touches and changes you, and being in His presence causes you to connect with Him so you see your neighbors’ need as equal to or greater than your own, and the miracle comes in the sharing.
So Jesus impacts head and Head still has some friends who are part of the Metal subculture…
…yeah, so?
Someone is gonna have to talk me through the Roger Oakland thing a bit… and the Head thing too I guess…
Roger’s article seemed more about defending (and promoting) himself. I didn’t read Brian Broderson into it anywhere. Any critique he had of Calvary Pastors felt aimed at all of us, the whole movement.
the “Head Video” seems to be by exclusionary Fundamentalists for exclusionary Fundamentalists. People would would be inclined to agree with RO will be firmer in their view if they see a video like that, and people who find it silly will most likely find the video silly.
Someone help me see otherwise on this
That Oakland video is as rambling, nonsensical, guilty by association as his writings.
Head is welcome in my church any day.
I guess going back to the initial video of Ken Sutton’s questions and there was no challenge to the bad theology – I guess at that point Brodersen as the chief should have said – “I will look into this – we can’t have bad theology center stage every Thursday night.” – he was sitting right there – but then we didn’t get the whole program so perhaps he did fire him.
This guy is the guy in question?
http://www.iamsecond.com/seconds/brian-welch/
If you read all of Oaklands commentaries as well as watch any of his conference speeches, you will soon understand that he and his fellow travelers specifically target “some” CC pastors.
He has a contingent of equally whacked friends and fans in the “movement”
The maker of that video has been an advocate for Paul Smith and the depose Brodersen faction from the beginning.
London,
That’s the guy…
London,
This guy is the guy in question?
Hmmm, I thought Brodersen and Ken Sutton were the guys in question.
Does anyone here admit to reading Oakland’s stuff. I read it when Michael posts but I have never searched it out to read on my own.
Come on – own up, who reads this? He is John Crowder on a different plane.
Thought 3, truer words have never been spoken regarding the survivability of some subgroups of church.
Thought 5, the reason I love baseball. My son will grow up learning the art, and in his 4th year, he has managed to see the field as a strategy, where he hits, where he throws, where he runs, how he swings, and how to better himself as a player. He is the smallest kid on the team, and everyone revels in his skill, coaches, players, parents, and he has learned that his skill will gain him respect, so he tries even harder. The lessons learned in baseball are infinitely more valuable than what the pace of other sports are capable of providing.
If you think baseball is a game of patience, not fitting the cultural temperament, consider cricket. The longest games go for five days. When half-day games came in at the elite level, critics complained that it was more like baseball than cricket.
Our doorbell rang a few hours ago. I opened it and two men, one playing guitar, sang through most of a Chris Tomlin song. They then told me they were Pilipino , handed me a plastic card and proceeded to ask for a donation for their organization. I was taken aback and told them we support others through our church. They then told me any amount would help but I sent them on their way as they continued to sing their way through our neighborhood.
Michael,
#10 was a confirmation/affirmation to our fam this evening. My 80 something folks all worked up over flying to the Deep South from CA for the first marriage of a grandchild. The father (son and my brother) in and out of jail, drugs/alcohol etc….will he make it to walk daughter down the isle? Is he capable….etc….etc…..Folks using this as variable on they themselves attending wedding. Worry stress worry worry!
Me and my other brother busted out that verse with folks to discuss this evening before hopping on the blog and reading your 10. ……..it is what we all should be having on our frontal lobe daily, make your own application…..we did! I know wrong day, right?
Amen to number 1 Michael!
#5 and 6 —
Hey, don’t tell that to millions of Cubs fans! Not just in Chi-town but all over the Midwest.
The fact the none of you couch potatoes are not the least bit alarmed by the video of korn head brian shows just how far Christendom has backslid into apostasy…
god help the frog church cooking in boiling water
@ 42.
I live in a sleepy town. We have a pastor that orgasm-ed with Jesus and has been chasing that initial high for twenty years. Again, it’s a sleepy town. This is pretty run of the mill stuff and not new.
About the video..
It was a mess. The video did a poor job of outlining their point. If you follow the comments above, people are unable to identify what, who and where the focus is, even after watching.
You are a little behind the times. Bill Bright and Loren Cunningham had visions from (god) in 1975. (god) outline a new plan for a fascist society that is called Seven Mountains Theology. Don’t forget about Lonnie Frisbee.
In fact, the question is not who has had a visitation, but who has not.
About CCCM..
They are toast. It’s not that they will be judged for this crap, but rather, the crap is the judgement. I have only met a couple of people that came back after a visitation. They never returned to normal.
http://www.the7mountains.com/history/
Your point #3 is outstanding. And, A comment about your point #1, that also relates to point #3.
I’m a registered independent, but am very conservative politically. Yet even I grew weary of the mega churches cozying up to the political right. One of the things I like most when I occasionally attend an Eastern Orthodox Church is that the Priest never says anything about politics. Rather, it’s all about Christ and everything else, politics included, pales in comparison, so it just isn’t worth mentioning during the service.
Sorry for the back to back posts. I meant to add, Amen to #8.
As far as baseball, as I’ve gotten older, I’ve totally lost interest in the NBA and the NFL, but my love for baseball seems to grow stronger with each passing season.
#9
True immanence. Hope you are feeling better today than at this time last year 🙂