Things I Think

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18 Responses

  1. bishopdave says:

    1. How then shall we invest?
    2. You just scared me, and I think you’re right.
    10. I don’t post on here often because I really feel like I’m not the target group–I’m not nor have I ever been CC, I really havent had an abusive experience in church until after 23 years of pastoring I came to my present position where we got abused in year 1 by and element that didn’t want us here; most of my experience in church has been positive. As an SBCer, the abusive pastors I know of are the mega guys. Many of us small timers have to work too hard to spend it abusing the help.

  2. Michael says:


    I don’t really have a target group…the more diverse we are the better.
    As to investing…that’s a great question.

  3. 1. That’s not exactly what he said. He clearly took a moral stand for gay marriage, but his “find something else to invest in” was :
    “If you feel, respectfully, that you can get a higher return than the 38% you got last year, it’s a free country. You can sell your shares in Starbucks and buy shares in another company. Thank you very much.”
    The headline was quite misleading.

    3. Mostly just a special service on Sunday. Since I’m one of those believers who doesn’t worship on this mountain or that mountain, every week is Holy Week.

    4.I did, and was very much blessed. I will say that in my own teaching of 1 Timothy I was also challenged. The great church is one that pleases God. There IS a way that God wants to be worshiped. We can’t do church on the “Have it your way” system, and just expect God to show up.

    5. Yes. Too true.

    6. Boom shackalaka. Hypocrisy is fun. We don’t want pastors on pedestals, but we want to hold them to a different criteria than we hold ourselves. Textbook hypocrisy. And yeah, in 1 Timothy 5 yeaterday – Paul tells Pastor Timothy to publicly rebuke sin. Ummm, is that abusive?

    7. Perfect! Now that your perspective has changed, you will notice other things changing as well.

    10. I’m afraid that cat won’t get back in the bag. It’s too much fun to rant and rave for any and every reason. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

  4. victorious says:

    Unaccountable corporate America developed because everybody ( a term for many and expressing a general attitude of a culture) wanted a fat 401k where the sky was the limit through mutual funds which are driven by numbers, not the values of the companies invested in. Former ethical investors hid behind the funds they invested in to reduce risk in financial terms. But it seems that we forgot to assess and weight the risk in terms of conscience . Increased greed consumes the ability to invest ethically.

    Mutual fund managers were empowered to produce returns for huge sums which required CEO’s and boards to bring a return for the “investors”.
    Individuals no longer invested in businesses that they had learned about, mutual fund managers who were pressured to produce returns, put pressure on corporations to bring returns for shareholders.

    Because we all submitted to the mutual rape of our cultural and societal conscience we have empowered the beast to steal jobs and enforce alternate values.

    Let’s weep, repent and go about our Masters business, content to do our business within the values of His Kingdom knowing that the ultimate reward far exceeds the short term cost.

    Another disclaimer. I know there are ethical fund managers and investment advisors, I am talking about the 80 percent side of the equation.

  5. Does having a decent 401K make me bad? And yes, I have no clue what I invest in.

  6. victorious says:

    Josh. Of course not. But checking out and assessing what you are invested in now , researching your options and praying about what you will do in the future will make you much aware and therefore wiser in the long run.
    My comments were more focused on what I saw as a big picture commentary on “how did we get here from there?”in a collective sense as a society.

  7. The Dude says:

    The gay agenda has been in corporate America for over 30 years.I remember back in the 80’s and 90’s when the Christian right was battling it out with A&TT.A&T T didnt back down, even after boycots.

  8. Michael says:

    “The Rob Bells and the Donald Millers write the bestsellers, after all, laying out their latte-fuelled musings for all to see. Yet, for all of the flaunting of their “authenticity”, to me they simply look like poseurs, products of the comparative comfort and prosperity of the West. My guess is that poor workers in dead end jobs know more about struggle and worry than the self-styled arrivistes and artists of post-evangelical angst. But such people are too busy trying to put bread in their children’s mouths to have the spare time to write bestsellers about how modishly authentic they are compared to everyone else.”

    Carl Trueman

  9. Alex says:

    Carl Trueman’s snark is so cuttingly British 🙂

  10. Lutheran says:

    Carl Trueman’s right on the money.

    I read Blue Like Jazz in a Lutheran book club a few years back. Just seemed like a lot of hoohah and posturing. I still don’t understand what all the fuss was about. It was like eating cotton candy. A lot of fluff and a stomachache later.

    There’s a type of evangelical pseudointellectualism that’s always struggling with pretty much every little thing. It’s fine to question stuff, but it doesn’t make you more spiritual than anyone else.
    Trueman nailed it. These folks are just living off the froth and prosperity of the churnings of evangelicalism.

  11. Ixtlan says:

    I realize that Howard Schultz’s statement was addressing a question regarding earnings. However, his response was telling. He essentially said that investors should concern themselves with earnings and he will set the moral compass of the company. It really tipped his hand in how he feels about those who think differently. I get the impression that he is betting that most stock holders are more concerned with a good return from their investment than they are the moral ethic of a corporation. If so, I think it is a bet he will win. The arrogance of success has placed him where he need not listen to any of his detractors. Sound familiar?

  12. Steve Wright says:

    As I look at Starbucks 1-year stock return as of today it sure looks pretty flat. The official public stance for gay marriage was made in Jan 2012, The stock today is definitely off it’s high from April 2012. Almost 10% The Nasdaq though is up a couple percent over that same time period.

    Just wondering where he is coming up with 38% return “last year”

  13. Alex says:

    Gay coffee tastes better, IMO. The Straight stuff is too strong and bitter. You need to foo-foo it up a little, half-and-half, some raw sugar, etc 🙂

  14. I wonder if they brew espresso at Chick-Fil-A?

  15. Standing ovation for Alex’s # 13.

    Vic, thanks for your clarification at #6.

    In regards to the Trueman quote, of course he is correct, but he seems to be missing that there are different genres of literature. Not every book written is a systematic theology. Bell and Miller are very different writers. Bell seems to fashion himself as a profound poet, challenging beliefs and presenting new ideas, while Miller is a story-teller. I’d also put a wedge between the two, because for my dollar, Miller is a very good writer and Bell is awful.

  16. And I found the Trueman article. He addressed my issue. Of course. A link is always nice:

  17. Miller, yes, excellent storyteller!

    Bell, a visual artist, a presenter, using not only words but design, typography, color, spacing, timing. His books are like his Nooma vids, they are art, targeting a readership who are visual, connecting much like Mason Williams did when he published his FCC Rapport.

    These men will continue to impact their generation, leading them to a living and vital relationship with Jesus which which He will shape and shepherd.

    A dear friend told me that there is a constant rehashing of 400 year old tired debates that she’s grown weary of, and she couldn’t be more spot on. Bell and Miller are refocusing Christianity’s reform on their own journies and as they share their insights they make it safe for the rest of us who are already thinking what they are thinking.

  18. What Josh said about Alex’s, #13

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