Things I Think…

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70 Responses

  1. Babylon’s Dread says:

    Someone will surely deliver.

  2. I have spent a lot of time over the years studying the CNN exit polls after each Presidential election. Let me say unequivocally that crediting evangelicals for Trump’s victory is like crediting blacks for Obama’s victories. A meaningless exercise in missing the point.

    The black vote goes Democrat. The evangelical vote goes Republican. The percent of the total electorate is statistically the same, as are the results. It does not matter who the candidate happens to be. McCain hated evangelicals, Romney is a Mormon, and Trump embraced them. It did not matter in any of the three elections. Yet McCain and Romney were easily defeated.

    What changed in 2016 is simple. The Catholic vote.

    Trump won the Catholic vote 50-46. They were 23% of the electorate.
    Obama won the Catholic vote 50-48. They were 25% of the electorate. (2012)
    Obama won the Catholic vote 54-45. They were 27% of the electorate. (2008)

    Note the big change from 2008 win Obama won 365 electoral votes.
    2012, Obama dropped to 332 electoral votes.
    Then Hillary only won 227 electoral votes – including the deadly losses of PA, MI, WI and OH – all four of which Obama won.

    Now, if the NY Times wants to analyze reality, they would run articles asking about the Catholic vote decline from 2008 to 2012, and actual turning in 2016 to give Trump the Presidency.

    But that might mean some difficult discussions about abortion and other social issues, as well as American factory workers in the Rust Belt of the country.

    So I’m not holding my breath. Not when the NY Times can blame evangelicals for the ills of the White House instead of looking into the mirror.

  3. Bride of Christ says:

    And yet, there’s this : ‘Support for President Trump Dips Among White Catholics’. From the article -“Catholic’s support for Trump fell to 37% in May down from 60% in March. “

  4. Jean says:

    The evangelical embrace of Trump began in the primaries when they chose him over other bona fide conservative Christian candidates, such as Cruz, Rubio, Paul and Bush.

  5. Jean says:

    Evangelicals endorsed and endorse, a science denying, lying, conspiracy promoting, slandering, self-dealing, narcissist and sociopath.

  6. bob1 says:

    Michael, your #9 – almost spit out my coffee. Sorry this happened to you, but I love your comment.

  7. Jean’s response to my lengthy post is a great example of why I don’t comment here anymore.

    1) Absolutely ignore all the facts relevant to the post. How Trump beat Hillary.

    2) Bring up something totally different, in this case the GOP primaries, and doing so in order to bash the evangelicals (in this case, blame them for Trump)

    3) And in bringing up that different issue, doing so in a factually incorrect manner.

    So while I’m not going to talk in detail about the Republican primaries of 2016, rest assured I participated and followed them as closely as any primary in my life. (And that is saying something).

    And Jean of course is wrong in his simplistic, erroneous comments above.

    I’ll just say this, and once more, my facts are accurate (not that facts matter to some people) – most of the GOP primaries for President are winner take all (either by state or district). They do not delegate split like the Democrats.

    In the early states, the vote was split significantly enough that Trump won the most delegates while minimal pluralities far short of any majority.

    For example, South Carolina, a hugely important early state for the nomination for either party (ask Joe Biden this year) – Trump won all 50 delegates with only 32.5% of the vote. Rubio and Cruz each had 22.5% and Kasich, Bush and Carson split the rest by each taking over 7% of the vote. Don’t tell me evangelicals embraced Trump and rejected these others.

    Super Tuesday – Trump wins 7 of the 11 contests, with only 34% of the total vote in all states. Cruz gets 29% and Rubio gets 22%. Remember – most are winner take all by district. Even if you only get 30% or so.

    Rubio and Cruz (combined) are getting the majority of evangelical support, Trump is getting some but mostly getting the same “outsider” vote that in the Democrat primaries was going for Bernie over Hillary. Trump is winning blue Democrat states like Massachusetts for example (49% to Cruz 10%). So he’s also getting the moderate Republican vote and the non-evangelical Republican vote (yes, there is some).

    Once Rubio finally dropped (even though Kasich stayed in) Cruz was neck and neck with Trump for a few states and that was because of the evangelical conservative support. But by then a string of blue states had primaries (hardly evangelical bellweathers) and Trump cleaned up.

    On April 26 five Democrat states had GOP primaries and Trump won them all with a combined 57% of the vote. CT, DE, MD, PA, RI – You can probably count the evangelical vote in those states on your hands and feet. Cruz actually did worse than Kasich that night. Trump won 111 of the 124 delegates up for grabs. He also won New York a week or so earlier with 59% of the vote, taking those delegates.

    But Jean sleeps better at night with his head in a pillow and blaming his enemies for his frustrations and I won’t write more in any attempt to take that away from him.

    But historical facts are stubborn things.

  8. bob1 says:

    If you’re going to act like such a jerk to a regular like Jean, I’m glad you’re no longer on here.

  9. Jim says:


    Steven was a regular here before Jean knew PP existed. Steven presented a scenario that no one’s talking about, backed up with factual data. You excuse and defend Jean’s emotional response because he talks a lot here? Seriously, you’re defending this? BTW, you’re in no position to issue a call for civility while discussing politic on PP. Feel free to respond with a well-reasoned remark, such as, “shut up poopy-head”.

    Oh yeah mr smarty pants who did his homework-“Evangelicals endorsed and endorse, a science denying, lying, conspiracy promoting, slandering, self-dealing, narcissist and sociopath.”-Jean the regular, which means something.

  10. Jean says:

    Jim, are any of character traits I used for Trump, which you quoted, debatable?

    BTW, my comment wasn’t emotional.

    One could be emotional, though, if one dwelt long enough on the disaster Trump has brought upon the country by his mishandling of the pandemic and the finances of the country.

  11. Jean says:


    I appreciate your comments, even if we disagree. I would value your perspective on politics any time. I watched your video from a few months ago regarding your church and the pandemic and was impressed by your well thought out plan and your knowledge of the issue.

  12. Michael says:

    For what it’s worth, I thought Steve made a significant contribution to my understanding.

    Also, for what it’s worth, I bleeping hate politics.

  13. Jim says:

    Jean, I would not debate your view of T’s character, although I think the worst traits listed are shared by all politicians. I just don’t know what that has to do with the Catholic vote.

    The folly lies in hope for “better leaders”.

    Your hatred for the bad orange man is never ending, but maybe if you state it just one more time you’ll change someone’s mind. Good luck.

    I would be just as sick of the constant bleating if it were directed towards Biden.

  14. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    Steven’s comment lines up with what I’ve seen Get Religion chronicling since 2016, about the difference between what op ed writers have been saying and what shows up in the data from 2016.

  15. Mike E. says:

    This Scripture is apropos to all our political to theological arguments. I am directing this at one person here: Myself.

    James 4:1 What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you? 2 You desire but do not have, so you kill. You covet but you cannot get what you want, so you quarrel and fight. You do not have because you do not ask God. 3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

    4 You adulterous people,[a] don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. 5 Or do you think Scripture says without reason that he jealously longs for the spirit he has caused to dwell in us? 6 But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says:

    “God opposes the proud
    but shows favor to the humble.”[c]
    7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

    11 Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister[d] or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

  16. Trump should have listened to Faucci from the beginning, but the blame lies with Americans of many stripes. 250,000 bikers are still heading to Sturgis. The Protests and Riots have been discussed to death. South of San Jose on Saturday, protesters shut the freeway 101. Returning from Big Sur, we missed it by a few hours. A co-worker who lives in San Carlos (just south of San Francisco) told me today that he saw baseball and soccer games, players and coaches with no masks and no social distancing, kids. Another co-worker told me Today that at his children’s private school, they are placing the desks 4 feet apart. What happened to 6 feet? He and his wife chose 100% remote learning. I did also. School starts next week. That’s here in Gavin Newsom’s enlightened California. A few stories of many.

    The facts have been out there for months. If the hoi polloi ignore them, we deserve what we get as a nation.

  17. Trump was not the primary favorite amoung Evangelicals. There was a long slog from the escalator, to the moment Sen. Cruz was booed out of the Convention Hall.

  18. One thing that never is brought up is text referring to Princes, Watchers, division of the nations, etc.

    There where seventy nations at one time, when the World was divided, in lanquage, ethnos and boundry. Whatever division existed, it must have broken down long ago. A simple carry-forward of Daniel’s visions into modern times, would mean some sort of Prince oversees the US.

    Or, alternatively, the divisional system broke down in ancient times and an arrangement now governs the US. This narrative would explain the Revolutionary, 1812 and Civil Wars. And a lot of other purpetual struggle in America, especialy racial tension.

    The foundational concept of American Government is E Pluribus Unim. Its been 2+ centuries. Four hundred years (this September) since the first sailing to found a New Israel. At what point do we say:

    -E Pluribus Unim was a fatal foundation.
    And as believers:
    -Persons unknown to us, but Principalities over the nations, are struggling against each other.

  19. Do Principalities include both angels and demons?

  20. I think our understanding is slightly off. Something like this:

    “Angel” is normally a vague concept of a spirit being. This makes angel a noun. A convoluted person/thing.
    An alternative would make angel, less noun and more adjectival. Angel discribes a capability possesed by certain of the Host of Heaven. The person utilizing this capability, does so in fulfilling a role. It’s normaly a servile role. The Angel of the Lord was an exception.

    This capacity is utlized to cross the Firmanent, Great Sea, sea of glass, etc. It’s two-way travel. Jacob had a dream at Luz and saw this phenomenon happening, so he called the place Bethel. He misunderstood what he witnessed. We possess the same capacity to cross between after the resurrection.
    Quantum physicist are unknowingly approaching a piecemeal understanding of this phenomena.

    Our brains do not process information in a ways that make these concepts easy to understand. It essentially requires a visual aid, or mathematical model.

    Demons are unrelated.

  21. CM says:

    The GOP should have told Trump to pound sand when he ran in the primaries. These are political parties and they can stipulate who gets to run in the primaries and who can’t. The bottom line is Trump was not a member of the GOP _until_ he decided to run for POTUS. If Trump didn’t like that, the GOP leadership should have told him he can always run as an independent. Same thing with the DNC outsider Bernie Sanders (who has never been a member of the Democrat party).

    But at least the DNC saw what happened to the GOP in 2016 when a populist outsider who was never a member of the party hijacked the nomination. So they were able to deal with their populist outsider Bernie Sanders before he got the nomination.

  22. WenatcheeTheHatchet says:

    The New Victor, I’ve been reading a couple dozen books on that topic and there’s not quite a consensus on that even though the Enoch literature is getting a lot more attention. one scholar I’m reading has gone so far as to suggest Paul was more concerned about positive instruction in habits of spiritual formation than he was about defining principalities and powers. Might have to blog about that topic later this year (or next, I really am reading 24 some books on the topic)

  23. Babylon's Dread says:

    As for evangelicals voting for Trump that case was harder to make before May 25. Now it is easy. All I have to do is ask if you want the whole country governed like the major cities. What have we seen in those cities? First, before George Floyd the major cities did not protect the elderly in their nursing homes. Even as a layman I knew by mid-March this disease was going to vanquish our elderly. But the theme I am setting is the failure to protect.

    The mayors of these cities failed to protect public property allowing it to be debased as an approval of protest. So the protestors upped the ante they began to destroy private property and the democrat mayors continued to signal tacit approval. They failed to protect police instead handcuffing the police to the front lines of these protests while forbidding them to act. They loosed the abyss and hundreds upon hundreds of police were injured some permanently after all thee police were out there only to do penance for the death of Floyd. The high priests of culture sentencing them to be flagellated.

    These democrat leaders had already failed to protect the general populace in favor of giving public spaces over to the drug culture then we had the summer of love in CHOP until they came for the mayor. These mayors should read about the French Revolution while they are ‘making peace’ with the mob in hopes of being spared. These mayors condemned Trump for attempting to stop the destruction of Federal buildings and now are lobbying Congress to pay for the carnage they’ve invited to their cities and the carnage they had already loosed with their unfunded budget.

    Why would evangelicals vote for Trump? Because we’ve seen the future. If you want your world to look like Chicago, Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis and on and on vote for the enemies of Trump.

    What is hard about choosing to vote for Trump for an evangelical? I long ago stopped believing politicians were moral paragons. We knew that since, yes… the Founding Fathers.

  24. CM says:

    And Trump’s failure to protect against coronavirus for most of the year is not something to hold against him right BD? What about his continued failure to protect against that and having his most rabid followers go to a rally, die of COVID-19, and earn a Darwin Award nomination (like Herman Cain)?

    Trump’s failure being minimizing the threat, saying it will go away, ignoring intel and other reports than confirmed China was lowballing, minimizing, and lying about the virus in early January. In the meantime saying multiple times in January that Xi is doing a great job in dealing with coronavirus, all to secure his Phase 1 trade deal.

    How about neither the Giant Douche nor the Turd Sandwich in 2020? Just as was the case in 2016.

  25. Michael says:

    “And Trump’s failure to protect against coronavirus for most of the year is not something to hold against him right BD? ”

    BD didn’t say that.
    You didn’t hear him.
    He probably didn’t hear you in response.
    That’s why we’re past the point of no return.

  26. Mike E. says:

    Nathan Priddis–here are the visual aids…several videos..I’ve watched these guys’ stuff and it’s very innovative and adheres to basic biblical interpretation.

  27. Duane Arnold says:

    I agree there is an obligation to protect, but this is only half the equation. The other part is “and serve”. In too many cases, that has been woefully lacking. I say that not from what I have heard, but from what I have personally witnessed…

  28. Michael says:

    Two things can be true.
    Policing, like preaching, attracts some bad people.
    Destruction of living spaces is abhorrent to me…I want safety and order, as well as justice and righteousness.
    Our present divisions guarantee none of this will be solved.
    We are lost.
    Christ is sufficient except when He’s not…

  29. Mike E. says:

    Question for my friends. Why do I post a Scripture that is perfectly apropos to our situation and discussion, and there’s literally no response? Am I invisible? Immediately the conversation turns right back to politics that none of us understand or can control. We just think we understand. Why don’t we discuss the Word of God? Most of the politicians, on either side, are unbelievers. So they try to figure it all out in the fleshly realm. And we follow right behind them like we are the same. We are NOT the same. Or are we?

  30. Michael says:

    Mike E,

    There is no significant difference at this point in history.
    Attempting to address things from a biblical or theological perspective is pretty much a waste of time.
    My belief is that the church should act as a separate entity within the larger structure…an entity committed to the way of Christ and a light to the larger structure.
    This has been reflected in Duane’s writing here trying to establish our unique place in society and culture.
    It’s shoveling sand against the seashore…

  31. Mike E. says:

    “Attempting to address things from a biblical or theological perspective is pretty much a waste of time.” …I’m sorry but…what? Maybe with unbelievers it’s a waste of time. God’s Word is not a waste of time. It never returns to Him empty, but will accomplish what He wants it to. Discussing politics and the same fleshly crap over and over is the waste of time. Guess if I quote The New York Times or post a link to a Fox News story, that would be valuable? Then we could all discuss our human fleshly viewpoints and….waste time.

  32. Michael says:

    Mike E,

    In case you haven’t noticed…most Christians online are not interested in Christianity except as an adjunct to support their political beliefs.
    Politics have taken primacy over faith and the result is the barely managed carnage you see here and elsewhere.
    It has sucked all the creativity and joy out of writing and exploring the things of the faith…

  33. Xenia says:

    Nobody can write as good as BD can write.

  34. Michael says:


    I think he’s speaking for a lot of people and we should be listening even if we disagree at points.

  35. Xenia says:

    Here’s the thing, in my opinion. Those Christians (not just evangelicals, but Catholics and Orthodox, too) believe (and I share many of these beliefs) the following:

    1. The Left is powered by the fumes of hell.
    2. Not to support Trump is to side with Evil with a capital “E.”
    3. King David, blah blah blah
    4. The Democrats have destroyed many precious things and are just itching to have enough power to destroy everything that is precious. I believe this to be true.
    5. So fighting evil = supporting good and is therefore virtuous, which is what a Christian should aim for: virtue. (This is where I am not so sure anymore.)
    6. If the Left hadn’t overplayed their hand I don’t think Trump would have a chance this fall but they did and he does.
    7. Since it seems unfathomable that the whackadoodle Leftist agenda appeals to so many people, one can’t help but suspect conspiracies. Some are too wild to take seriously, so it makes everyone who suspects *something* is going on behind the scenes look crazy.

    I believe that for reasons of encouraging our repentance, God has allowed Satan to run wild at the present time. We are getting what we asked for, the right to do whatever we want to do, the American Creed found of the Left and the Right: “Ain’t nobody gonna tell me what to do.”

  36. Duane Arnold says:


    “This has been reflected in Duane’s writing here trying to establish our unique place in society and culture.”

    The problem is, too many don’t want a “unique place”… they want the “only place”.

  37. Mike E. says:

    Michael..oh, I’ve noticed. “Most Christians online are not interested in Christianity except as an adjunct to support their political beliefs.” SO if these “believers” are not interested in God’s Word, but more interested in the worldly system, what does that say? They love the world. I’m not judging any individuals. But the Apostle CLEARLY told us, 1 John 2:15-17 “Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.”

    “It has sucked all the creativity and joy out of writing and exploring the things of the faith…” That is incredibly sad and is something, in my view, we as believers cannot accept.

  38. Xenia says:

    Those Christians online want to protect and preserve a virtuous, family-friendly way of life but I wish they would realize that in many cases, they themselves have destroyed much by their love of and participation in worldly things, such as Hollywood, divorce, and just plain worldliness.

  39. Xenia says:

    So: If you watch X-rated moves, listen to music w/ demonic lyrics, go to p0rn websites, send your daughters out dressed like hookers, etc. etc. you can look at the world today and mourn over the part you played in bringing all about.

  40. Michael says:

    I cannot enumerate the sins of one side without enumerating those of the other…if I do I’m simply speaking of what offends me, not what offends God.

    There is much offense to Him from both sides, so parking on one or another is sinful in itself.

  41. Mike E. says:

    Xenia…both the left AND the right are powered by the fumes of hell…we are losing our Christian perspective by focusing on people and their beliefs. The left and right are both anti-life. Because all the enemy wants is total and complete death and destruction. That is why we must eschew the politics of today’s world and bring our focus back to Our King and His Kingdom. We are trying in our flesh to implement God’s ways into a world that will NEVER accept them. THIS is the real waste of time. I am in full agreement with both Duane and Michael on this point. The church has a unique roe to play..but we have lost our salt and light. The enemy has us all fighting each other, but we are supposed to know we don’t fight against flesh and blood. The world system is passing away, and everything in it. We must all bring our focus back to Our King and His precepts.

  42. Xenia says:

    MIke E, I don’t disagree with you. My point is, and has always been, that many Christians don’t see our own role in destroying our culture. We look at the people on the other side, whichever side that is, and blame them when I think God is wondering why we don’t care about personal holiness anymore, and our worldliness, wherever it is found on the Christian spectrum, is having its intended effect.

    We should see This Present Darkness as a call for personal repentance.

  43. Xenia says:

    Mike, I reread your post and like it even better than I did when I read it the first time!

  44. Mike E. says:

    “We should see This Present Darkness as a call for personal repentance.” Indeed, dear sister, in this you speak wisdom and righteousness.

  45. Mike E says:

    I will shut up after this but…Did you ever notice the NT writers hardly ever talked about politics or the issues of their days? They only talked about Jesus and His redemptive work. The only thing they ever said about politics is believers should submit themselves to governmental authorities. Period. And that was at a time the government was controlled by evil men, just as it is now. The world hasn’t changed. WE have changed.

  46. Xenia says:

    In my post up above I wasn’t defending all the stuff Christians have written on social media, I was just trying to explain why, in my opinion, they believe and act as they do. They see themselves as warriors in a battle against Satan.

    Except I don’t think this is how the battle is won.

    How one follows Christ in one’s personal life, when no one is looking, is what matters to God. Which is better: to post a photo of your “enemy” on Twitter for all to mock or to actually do good, in real life, to those who hate you? What one does on Twitter, etc, is not the same thing as how we treat perceived enemies in real life.

  47. Mike E. I think Scripture becomes invisible. I can not identify streets in my neighborhood. I drive by them daily for years. But Elm St. has no bearing to my life. Also I see the signposts so much, my brain ignores it and it becomes invisible.

    Ditto Scriptures. They stop registering.

  48. Duane Arnold says:

    Yeats wrote the truth…

    “… Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.”

  49. Mike E says:

    Nathan Priddis…that is such a perfect analogy.

  50. Muff Potter says:

    There are many good and decent people who voted for Donald Trump.
    Religious affiliation is irrelevant.
    It is my fervent hope that they’ll realize in their heart of hearts that they f***ed-up and won’t do it again come November.

  51. Jean says:

    Since we are talking about politics in this thread, I am going to provide my opinion on Biden’s announcement today of Kamala Harris as his running mate.

    I am very proud of the choice. I believe it is a bold choice of a qualified, intelligent individual.

    I am not one who believes that the American Dream is a fixed pie, where to make my piece larger, I have to take from your piece.

    I do not think that justice for minorities means someone else will lose justice.

    I believe that our country will be stronger and healthier if every American receives a quality education and quality healthcare.

    I believe that a socially stable society requires a fair opportunity for mobility from the lower class to the middle class to the upper class.

    I believe that a society will not be stable if a small minority of the society owns and controls the vast majority of financial, economic and political power, as though a modern form of fuedalism.

    I do not believe that the American people are too weak to handle a truthful message from authority.

    I do not believe economic prosperity is sustainable if built on the pillars of (i) tax cuts for the wealthy, (ii) deficit spending, and (iii) deregulation of environmental protections which the people are entitled to for clean water, clean air and safe food.

    I believe that character in an Administration matters.

    For all of these reasons, I will vote for Biden/Harris over Trump/Pence.

  52. bob1 says:

    Her parents were both immigrants.


  53. Jean says:


    I am not afraid or against offering people of color and immigrants full participation in all of the rights and opportunities that citizenship offers. I don’t believe the status quo optimizes the potential of our nation.

  54. Xenia says:

    I believe that K. Harris is an intelligent, capable woman. She is in far, far better mental shape than either Trump or Biden.

    However, she supports many things that make it impossible for me to cheer for her, or any Democrat, for that matter. She is on the side of abortion, the homosexual agenda, and other gross immoralities.

    The fact that she is a black person, or a woman, doesn’t matter at all to me. What I care about is a godly agenda + mental sharpness. She’s got one of them, Biden has neither, Trump has neither although he does now and then support some godly ideas. I don’t know anything about Pence other than he stands by like a sheep and agrees with everything Trump says. I think he would be better than Trump, though because he seems to be a genuine Christian and is not senile.

    What a bunch. I can’t support any of these people of which I think K. Harris is the smartest but still an impossibility for me.

  55. Mike E. says:

    Xenia..I’m struggling so much with how to vote as a member of the Kingdom. I agree with you about the immoralities Democrats support. But I’m so torn because the other side, as I wrote earlier, also support gross immoralities such as caging children and separating families. As I wrote earlier, both parties are anti-life. As a veteran, it’d kill me not to vote. Think I might just write in “King Jesus” and be done with it. 🤷‍♂️

  56. Jim says:

    The Innocence Project has much to say about Harris’ moral character as a prosecutor. The DNC tanked Tulsi after she brought Harris’ record up during the debates. Coincidentally, Tulsi was unable to capitalize on her post debate bump when google refused to sell her ads to her campaign.

    Google “the innocence project kamala harris”. Better yet,

    It’s a dirty business.

  57. Jim says:

    I only reference Harris after seeing the predictable endorsements here, knowing that Biden’s running mate will be president.

  58. Michael says:

    It doesn’t matter one iota if a candidate supports or doesn’t support the “gay agenda” and abortion.

    Those have basically been settled by the Supreme Court and are used by politicians and parties as sleight of hand to keep you from looking at anything else.
    There is no moral high ground, just differing depths of dirt depending on the issue.
    I commend Mike E for having the spiritual insight that what is happening on the border is as evil and depraved as any sexual sin, aborting life that doesn’t matter because it’s brown and “foreign”.

  59. Bride of Christ says:

    Thank you for your above post, Michael – it is completely true. Those issues are indeed settled law, and to focus on them exclusively is to ignore so many moral issues within our country that have yet to be determined; the issues at the border, lack of health care for so many Americans and a rising maternal death rate, and income equality. Our current Catholic Pope has publicly stated that income inequality is the most serious problem facing the world today, and greed is the sin that is the root of it. Why don’t evangelicals ever talk about the role of greed in our hyper-capitalistic society? I agree with Xenia that divorce is also a sin that is hurting our country as much or MORE than homosexuality. I have heard that the divorce rate is higher for Christians than it is for non Christians. Jesus clearly hated divorce and repeatedly warned Christians against divorcing. Hard -hearted and selfish Cristians divorce, and the innocent children suffer the most. I taught elementary school for over 30 years and I saw many , many formerly happy and well adjusted children traumatized by divorce. Why doesn’t the church look to it’s own sins first before attacking others? Christians who believe it’s okay to divorce have bought a worldly lie, and they are contributing to the breakdown of the family and our society by doing it. Why are they so focused on gay marriage and abortion and ignore so many other immoralities within their own ranks?

  60. Mike E. says:

    Michael..thanks for the kind words..I think we just might be getting at the root of our collective problem…we have 2 different sides of the SAME coin and we are fighting each other over which side of the coin is worse. The lesser of two evils indeed…but is there a lesser evil? I don’t think so…the politics of our time is steeped in the evil worldly system and the enemy has us all deceived. What if that’s the answer? We’re ALL deceived. And all sinful in how we are going about dealing with these political issues. That’s why, at this point, I believe the church should abandon partisan politics altogether. We are all trying to do things in the power of the flesh for the power of THIS world. I find it interesting the Apostles nor our King Himself were never into politics.

  61. They might have won with Gabbard, but the DNC establishment froze her out and Hillary slandered her as a Russian agent. I know more than a few conservative leaning people who liked her, even though disagreeing on a few key policy points. Tulsi seems “real” unlike our current crop. Harris has much more bad baggage than has been mentioned here so far.

  62. Bride of Christ says:

    New Victor, Gabbard is not what you think. My daughter and her husband live in Hawaii and she is considered to be very “off” there. Her husband is heavily involved in a religious cult which is extremely strange. I researched it, and it is true. I was surprised to learn that she has ties to the cult as well.

  63. Bride of Christ says:

    My daughter and her husband live in Honolulu and they are both college educated ( my daughter has a Masters degree). They are Christians but not given to wild conspiracy theorues. See Tulsi Gabbard Dogged by Krishna Cult Rumors https://www. and ‘ Should We Be Concerned That Tulsi Gabbarf Might Have Been Raised By a Cult?’ https:// It seems both her parents are also in the Krishna Cult as well as her husband.

  64. Jim says:

    “Why don’t evangelicals ever talk about the role of greed in our hyper-capitalistic society?”

    Because socialism has a massive body count? Former Popes were aware of this.

  65. Would Krishnas be a concern any more than Romney and Mormons? Teddy Roosevelt didn’t swear in on a Bible. How much of this matters?

  66. CM says:


    I seem to recall something in the Constitution about no religious tests for public office. John Adams, John Quincy Adams, Millard Fillmore, and William Howard Taft were Unitarians.

  67. Jean says:

    If a candidate is drawn to cultish beliefs, or QAnon theories, or is anti-science, or their loyalty is suspect because they are deferential to the enemies of our country, or they are hell bent on hiding their financial information, it is fair for voters to draw inferences about their character and suitability for the office of President.

  68. Jean says:

    So, we haven’t even got to the end of the week, and the the President has already played the racist card and the birther card against Harris. I am wondering if Republicans and/or Trump supporters are energized by these appeals? Is there a John McCain type individual left in the GOP who would stand up against such immoral tactics?

  69. CM says:


    Of course they are. As for the GOP, the Republicans than did not drink the Trump the Kool Aid were exiled to the political wilderness. As George Will pointed out the GOP needs to die.

    I used to be a Republican, and I am of the opinion the GOP needs to go the way of the Whigs. The GOP has been infected with the terminal cancer that is Trumpism and needs to be put out of its misery. The GOP needs to have the Ra’s al Ghul treatment as he proposed for Gotham in Batmen Begins.

    “Gotham’s time has come. Like Constantinople or Rome before it the city has become a breeding ground for suffering and injustice. It is beyond saving and must be allowed to die. This is the most important function of the League of Shadows. It is one we’ve performed for centuries. Gotham… must be destroyed.”

    The only solution is to burn the GOP to the ground and bury the ashes. Then construct a new real conservative party (all former Trump supporters are forbidden).

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