Things I Think…
1. Julie Roys is getting a lot of heat that will probably unravel her website. The thing that set Roys apart from other sites that called for accountability in the church (like this one) is that she somehow came up with sponsors and generated enough money to pay other reporters.
We were never able to get as much as a sniff from sponsors during our busiest seasons…all the investigative work was done by me on my own time on my own dime with a few loyal financial supporters. Those sponsors won’t stay with an added layer of controversy…then we’ll see how dedicated she really is to “restoring the church”….
2. Roy’s website has published some important stories…and those stories should be judged by their own merit, not your estimation of the her character…she has some really good people working with her…
3. Whenever you run a website that depends on scandal for its survival, you are always in need of scandal to stay afloat. Scandal becomes something you need rather than something you grieve…and the you become what you claim to despise…that’s what I’ve heard, anyway…
4. I realized early on that exposing bad guys was not enough in itself to create positive change…you had to examine the theological and cultural reasons that abuse thrives and offer alternative ways to look at church…and your focus had to be on building up as much as tearing down. We missed that mark at times, but we never moved the mark for numbers…
5. Having a popular site online and the influence that comes with it is a dangerous and intoxicating drug…if your motivation is anything other than a love for God, His people, and the church…don’t be surprised if He brings discipline…don’t ask me how I know this…
6. Elon Musk bought Twitter…which is fine with me. If I don’t like what he does with it, I’ll leave and won’t be missed…no big deal…
7. Just a reminder that “free speech” doesn’t mean the right to speak anywhere you choose, however you choose… owners of private sites have the right to choose who and what they allow to be posted…and you have the right to start your own site…
8. Another reminder….yes, you have the right to your own opinion…but that doesn’t mean that your opinion is worth hearing…
9. If I was God, cats and dogs would have the same lifespan as humans…
10. Ecumenicism is in my nature…I believe God allows diversity of thought in the church so that each group brings a different gift to the Body…ideally, we would think that way about our political differences as well….
#10 — Michael, you and I are kin. I have a hunch that a lot of Xns of our generation have been “around the block” WRT various churches, movements, denoms, etc.
#8….THANK YOU!!!!
#9…THANK YOU AGAIN!!!!
bob1,
I think you’re probably right…I’m beginning to believe that a lot of people are just looking for Jesus…and that will end up being a very good thing…
Dan,
You’re very welcome, as always…
#2 Yes, we need to use our heads WRT Julie Roys and her work. Having worked many years in journalism I’ve noticed that she only used qualified writers/journalists for the stories on her site.
bob1,
I’ve only worked with one of her reporters and she is really good…
What did Roys do that is bringing the heat?
She described an inappropriate relationship…inappropriately.
There are some other things coming out…but she’s lost a chunk of the survivor bloggers and the usual suspects already hate her…
http://watchkeep.org/
#9 yes, yes, yes, and amen.
#5, I wonāt ask but I will express a desire to hear this SOMEDAYā¦
Overall, I love your sentiment about loving the Body of Christ. Despite all Iāve seen, heard and read, I canāt shake the need to hang tight with the Brideā¦
#10
Never gonna happen. Nationalism is so inextricably bolted to religion in the United States of MAGA that it will likely only be stripped away by total social, political, and economic collapse. And even thenā¦ maybe not.
I am pretty convinced that Christianity made MAGA happen. It started with Trump proclaiming Mexicans were drug dealers and rapists, and ended with punishing mothers for abortions. For Christianity, the abortion punishment comment sealed the entire deal, entirely. Entirely. Itās why Republicans, who believe in less government and restriction, adopted abortion as a talking point. This is not debatable. It was the fulcrum point in winning the Christian vote.
News flash, Roe V. Wade will not be overturned. Ever. So move on to issues that are conducive to humanity. There is far too much social, political, economic stuff to consider, and if you bought the Regan lines on all three, stop and consider humanity for a secondā¦ PLEASE
jtk,
The short version is that I got really full of myself and decided the ends justified the means…and God leveled me.
The mother of nationalism is dispensational theology ā the elixir that Smith used to rid his movement of the charismata and keep the faithful dutifully embattled enough to rally was to expect upheaval.
The SBC got sucked into it in the 1980s despite a strong history of amil presence of the kingdom theology. The flags in the churches post WWII and pledges to the flag assured a co-mixing of faith and religion.
In this arena if you are conservative youāre guilty ā if progressive then youāre passed over by the death angel.
It is conspiratorial eschatology that fuels the nationalism that you all hate and most once espoused. So show kindness to your frustrated neighbors. They just want the decline of their nation to reverse.
As for Julie Roys. Iām unimpressed with her āsinā unless I missed something. It seems like garden variety stuff made bad by the age gap but 19 is an adult, for good or Iāll.
I donāt care much for her arrogant crucifixion of others but mom said when you live in glass houses donāt throw stones. She did.
Humans are full of their depravity ā all of us ā Iād probably defend Julie at this juncture and admonish her to be more compassionate with her quarry. We live in an era of condemnation not reconciliation. No one gets forgiven ā just exposed.
Itās always good when your worst moments are not adjudicated by the online mob.
Dread,
Russian Orthodox are not dispensational…but deeply nationalistic.
Dispensationalism may be a factor in the American flavor, but I think we have to dig deeper.
I have no problems with normal conservatives…most of my church and my support here comes through them and they bring their own gifts to the square.
If there were a sane, solid leader among them, I might join them…but I would say the same for the opposition.
I despise the mixing of politics…far right or progressive…with the faith.
As I noted elsewhere, the “progressive” church is shrinking and is of little influence…and may not exist in ten years.
“So show kindness to your frustrated neighbors. They just want the decline of their nation to reverse.”
I get this.
My issue is that I don’t believe that the decline is reversible by political means…and in some areas.not reversible at all.
Involving the faith in alignment with one party is deadly…
Michael
As you know I have not one time praised or advocated nationalism.
The roots of American nationalism no doubt go back to our founding. The āAmerica/Israelā language parallel is very deep but until any moment rapture theology theology ascended it was not the driving narrative.
I welcome the death of nationalism and itās eschatology.
Dread,
My understanding throughout the conflicts here has been that you were advocating for people who may hold to opinions I find odious, but are good people of faith that we at times unfairly maligned.
I think that’s beneficial to us all in understanding the dynamics we’re dealing with.
You have always been far more conservative than myself, but it’s never affected our personal relationship.
We couldn’t hear each other cuss in cyberspace… š
At least when weāre in the same space the echoing dims and usually the cussing.
Having gone on a bit of a Crawford Gribben spree in the last few years the thing he pointed out about the American South was Confederates were just great being postmillennialists but after the Confederacy lost the Civil War people began pivoting to premillennial dispensationalism. Entitled postmillennialist Manifest Destiny took longer to wane and Gribben pointed out that in the New England area postmil optimism increased post-Civil War and wasn’t stopped in its tracks until World War I. So dispensationalism as an eschatological system probably “doesn’t” account for superiority complexes and, per Michael’s comment above, the Russian Orthodox have their nationalists without the slightest trace of dispensationalism. A writer I know has proposed that the United States has had a tension between the John Winthrop and Roger Williams approaches since before becoming the US and that seems to make sense of the history I’ve picked up in my life.
I don’t think the decline is reversible either but we can choose to accelerate or decelerate that decline by how we treat people. One thing I don’t think will hold true is that all those guys in Idaho who think that they will build the future society in the American Redoubt are going to succeed.
Btw Duane, finished the Harrison book on Augustine’s De Musica. Thanks for the recommendation!
I believe there are many people, like me, who are neither conservative nor liberal, but with different views in different areas. I do believe racial discrimination is a huge issue in our country, but I donāt believe in CRT. However, Iāve been jumped on several times for being āwokeā because I have concerns about racial profiling and the number of blacks who die at the hands of the police. I think the church can do more to encourage women with unplanned pregnancies and support adoption. I donāt believe in publicly ridiculing those with alternative sexual lifestyles. I think we need to find better ways to reach the gay and transgender community for Christ.
Just some of my thoughts. I do try to make good on what I believe through service. I think people need to be able to disconnect Christians from Fox News and Trump.
Linn,
Well said.
I think people should turn off all TV news, period…
I think we have lost our distinction as a āpeculiar people.ā
Does anyone here think that bunch at Corinth were regarded as a “peculiar people” or the churches of Asia Minor such as are listed in Revelation. There simply is no era of Christianity that we can point to that did not have both mess and message. There is no golden age of Christendom in the earth.
What really disappoints us is that we intended to do better and didn’t.
Dread,
If you read secular histories from the first couple of centuries it does appear that the Christian community was known and recognized for its ‘peculiarity”…
failures in 4 and fiery cases of 3 seem intertwined, particularly if breaching 4 entails presupposing that a set range of doctrinal distinctives are uniquely favorable to abusive behaviors while other doctrinal distinctives preclude even the possibility of abuse. Abusive conduct can happen in any confessional, dogmatic or ideological/political community, particularly when people take it as given that orthodoxy precludes abusive conduct.
For 1 … I did everything I ever did at WtH on my own time at my own expense and I’d never change that. The second sponsors are involved is the moment sponsors can spike stories. The work you did wasn’t and isn’t the kind that benefits from having people who could spike stories, Michael, so I’m actually glad you’ve not had sponsors. The downside is, as an acquaintance of mine put it, the institutional press only ever takes itself seriously so “mere” bloggers like you (or me) are precluded from being considered as having done any kind of investigate journalism. It can be lame in a lot of ways and it is what it is, but there’s a freedom in not publishing material that is at the mercy of sponsors who have incentives to spike stories.
WTH,
It worked out for the best…I’ve never been good at taking orders.
We got big enough that the mainstream had to pay attention…even if they didn’t give us much credit for the work.
Yes Michael
Rodney Stark affirmed that with regard to Christians in times of plague and with the treatment of women and their fearlessness in the face of death.
But we are hard pressed to find that having lasted enough for it to be said that āweā lost it.
Iāll concede the matter
Dread,
I think more about how they dealt with the infanticide of the day. They would gather the infants left out in the elements and raise them…a quiet, loving response to the days culture wars…
Culture war?
Meh
Michael wrote: “The short version is that I got really full of myself and decided the ends justified the meansā¦and God leveled me.”
Thoughts:
I’ve had my taste of this as well. It is a bit of mystery to me that in trying to undo an injustice or abuse, and getting ahead of myself or taking shortcuts, I’ve been quickly
disciplined…while the person doing the hurtful things appears to remain protected and carries on with the harm.
But just because I had to sit in penalty box did not mean the other person was innocent.
I actually take such quick discipline as a show of God’s love for me.
It’s a challenge to be pure as a dove but shrewd as a snake.
#9… But He didn’t – I wonder why?
Maybe He wanted people to experience the grief that goes with loss? ? ?