Things I Think…
1. I’ve been reading Russell Moore’s book on Christian nationalism and I’ve probably already read a dozen others.
It seems to me that the case has been made and no other books are necessary…because there is no one who believes in Christian nationalism that is going to be convinced by them…and if the Bible didn’t convince them, Russell Moore doesn’t stand a chance…
2. A large swath of American Christendom is simply apostate…and find the Jesus that conquers through sacrificial love and death a loathsome weakling…and His followers the same…evidently, they haven’t read the end of the book…
3. One of the reasons that John the Revelator uses such intensely beautiful symbolism to describe the New Jerusalem is because of the price one must pay to enter it…he is trying to tell us it will all be worth it…and knows that many will question that fact on the way…
4. One thing I simply do not understand…that being how can people allegedly filled with the Spirit of God be among the most gullible and least discerning people on the planet? The “prophetic “conferences are nothing more than traveling carny shows meant to shake every dime out of folks who will pay to hear what they want to hear…
5. Here’s your prophecy update….it’s all going to get worse.
6. What many American Christians are longing for is the American equivalent of the relationship between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian regime…where the church blesses the rape and ruin of another country and is paid well in money and power to do so…that church is apostate, but its clergy do well…
7. What we are going to get is a increased marginalization until we are no longer useful idiots for the acquisition of power, then exclusion and contempt. What we should be focusing on is the creation of small communities built to survive and thrive as families until the Second Coming…
8. Does anyone find it odd that there are no “revivals” mentioned in the Scriptures past Pentecost?
9. I haven’t fleshed this out, so I probably shouldn’t be writing about it yet…but…the belief that the kingdom is breaking through in the present has been interpreted to mean that we would see healings and miracles and manifestations of the power of the Holy Spirit…but what if it really means we will be given the power to follow Jesus as everything around us collapses?
10. I might be wrong….about everything…but I believe we are entering a time when it will take as much for the remnant to withstand the apostate church as the culture…
I probably have more concern and fear about the apostate church than the secular culture myself.
When parishoners complain that Jesus is too weak and “woke” because he talked about turning the other cheek, what is left?
When “God and Guns” is proclaimed around here in Dixie, the really mean “GUNS and god”.
When a writer claims that the Holy Spirit was present at the January 6th, 2021 “gathering” at the mall in DC, the word “blaspheme” comes to mind”.
When all you hear over the last 20-30 years is “take back our country” and “this is the most important election in our nations history”, no wonder there is an apostate church.
Dan,
Excellent summary…
The real work is yet to begin…how do we build faithful churches that are places where such is not welcome?
They already exist of course…but we need more and more voices centered on the Gospel…
Sorry brother, #6 Bears false witness regarding most of us and the movement in general. Most CN’s I know despise our BS brushfire wars/conflicts waged only for profit and to shore up a staggering empire. What gets me is the unspoken belief by those opposing CN that the enemies of Christ are morally and ethically superior to Christians in regards to leading our country. All I hear is Christians being terrified at the thought of Godly, wise men running our country, and arguments and excuses piled sky high, and books written about why we are better off with the enemies of Christ running the show. Strikes me as bearing false witness against the Lord’s people and a despising of our brothers in Christ. Spin it how you like, at it’s base. that’s exactly what it is.
Patrick,
Christian nationalism is a heresy…period.
One need only look at the champions the movement has chosen…immoral grifters for the most part.
In the biblical scheme, this nation will go the way of all empires…beasts opposed to Christ.
No one I know would have an issue with godly men running our country…I just haven’t seen any of the sort promoted…
Written almost three years ago to the day…
https://www.phoenixpreacher.com/the-heresy-of-christian-nationalism/
Michael
Crossed posts…
Duane,
and still true today…
āChristian nationalismā is an oxymoron, donāt you think?
Officerhoppy,
Yep.
It’s basically baptizing some conservative views…some that I may agree with, in fact….but theocracys have passed…
i look back at ancient Rome, where the emperor had literal “free reign” to do whatever he wanted. Paul didn’t ask believers to either overthrow the emperor or to try to get a more godly one into office. Paul did instruct believers to a) pray for rulers so that they (the Christians) could lead peaceful and quiet lives pleasing in the sight of God (1 Tim. 2:1-2); b) submit to the rulers who were in power because they represented an authority that came from God (Rom. 13:1-2); to live quiet lives that glorified God so as to win the respect of outsiders (1 Thes. 5:11-12). The type of American politics currently practiced is very far from this model.
I know there are times when resistance to the government from Christians is necessary (I shall go to the Hebrew midwives, Daniel, Daniel’s friends, and the wise men for my defense of occasional civil disobedience). However, in all of these examples, they were respectful of the authority in power, but insistent on what the ultimate Authority required from them.
I find Christian nationalism abhorrent. I often wonder what would happen if Christians did less campaigning and more at church and the community. That might really transform the USA!
” I often wonder what would happen if Christians did less campaigning and more at church and the community. ”
In a few years that we be our only choice…and we should be making it now.
Michael-I agree!
Dan and Linn, great comments.
#2 – How can someone consider Jesus a loathsome weakling and still even think to call themselves Christian. Do they even believe the New Testament? Perhaps Islam would be a better choice for them.
#8 – Hmmmā¦ interesting question. I believe genuine moves of the Spirit have definitely happened. The type of ārevivalā that many are pushing for now would not fall into that category.
CK,
You nailed it…Islam advocates many of the same tactics for “God”…
Let me add something here I should have added sooner.
I’ve “known” Patrick Kyle online for a long, long, time.
He’s a good man, a great family man, and a brother…we disagree strongly on many things, but I will not speak negatively of him.
4, 5, and 6!!!
Especially 6! What the RO and Stalin did is precisely what MURICA wants today.
7, I agree with the not bold print. The bold print is wrong. This is a nation built on religion, worse than Muslim nations, but not ābuilt on religionā. The intent was to separate the law from the religion, however, the both have become one and the same. And it will get worse. Any strides to separate the two have been deteriorating since day one. At least England has made the state church as symbolically pointless as the Royals.
Thanks for bringing thoughts to my head today that are not what they have been the last few weeks!
Reuben,
Hopefully, this was somewhat of a diversion.
Praying for you and James…you are carrying loads I can’t conceive of…but you know that.
Excellent diversion. Something I have been looking for a lot lately. I sleep at night with HULU or Netflix on, just enough noise to put me to sleep, not enough to keep me awake. I still canāt bring myself to touch her things. I had to use her phone number 30 minutes ago to pay a bill over the phone. It hurt to recite it. Work is horrible these days as hot as it is, Iām an HVAC guy. But it keeps me occupied for at least 8 hours a day. I try to listen to a morning radio show on my phone when I have the chance. Itās the silliness of the show that keeps me preoccupied for a while. They ask dumb questions, I text in with dumb answers. I have gotten to know the radio show hosts. They text me since my wife died, always encouraging me. My son and I talked today about my first traffic ticket and laughed on the way home from school. Then I paid bills with money I donāt have. Bought some dog and cat food and some milk. These are the worst days of our lives. Any distractions help. 7 got my wheels turning.
You are a good man, my friend…you and James will save each other.
I’ll try to make more diversions…though I spend a lot of time diverting myself…
Reuben, Iād like to say I understand, but truth is I canāt even imagine what youāre going through. Thatās cool that the radio show hosts text you. Praying for you and your son.
Thanks Kevin!
Michael, I know that need for diversion.
8 – Revival for Baptists = Arena filled with thousands saying the sinner’s prayer, most not for the first time. Revival for Pentecostals = Arena filled with people laughing uncontrollably, plus signs, wonders and unverified healings. Both can point to the book of Acts for examples that vaguely resemble their definition. (Note that first century arenas weren’t used for revivals)
9 – Has me thinking about Matthew 7:21-23. “Many will say to me on that day, āLord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?ā Then I will tell them plainly, āI never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!ā”
Heresy? Really? Suit yourself. Stew in your bitterness. Bye.
Patrick,
What an odd response…but a sadly telling one.
My statement is a theological one…one that I am willing to vigorously debate.
CN is heresy…that is a theological statement.
Your responses have all been personal and and insulting….and weird.
I think we all pray for godly and wise leaders, but I suspect that breed has died.
I’m not bitter about anything these days, except maybe about the treatment of cats at the local shelter.
You’re welcome to engage again with ideas that actually address the topic…
A lot of good people unfortunately get wrapped up in heresies. One of the particular drawbacks to this current popular heresy of Christian Nationalism is the embracement of combative, insulting, duplicitous behavior, which is epitomized in its adopted leader. Having honest, civil, rationalized discussions are also usually frowned upon as such are not seen as leading to “winning”.
Another difficulty with this heresy is that it is a bit difficult to clearly to bound or define. Desiring godly people in political leadership or thinking America is a Christian nation just in a sense of the Christian heritage of its people is not Christian Nationalism. However, somewhere along the sliding scale where desires for godly leaders starts leading to the abandonment of Christian principles for purposes of gaining power and belief in an American Christian nation leads one to believe that Christianity should be favored or empowered by our government over other religions or no religion at all, the heresy of Christian Nationalism begins.
Well said, Kevin.
I still get surprised by the emotions this subject raises….it seems like people want to frame this in war like terms…
#9 Much to ponder when Christians in China & other nations are experiencing real persecutionā¦.will we be able to stand firm in Jesus Christ if that would happen here.
pslady,
I don’t believe so…because our faith isn’t grounded in Christ, but in our system.
@Kevin- I snipped your post above. It is one of the best statements on how good intentions and desires to have godly leaders shifts into CN and what I observe as a āwin at great(all?) costā mentality. Very good
Thanks, PM. Snip away.
The issue is theological, hence, heresy. Those involved in Christian nationalism want to make the issue political. Therefore, they have a sense in which a theological category does not apply. Christian nationalism is antithetical to Christian faith, pure and simple.
Kevin, You wrote:
“Another difficulty with this heresy is that it is a bit difficult to clearly to bound or define.”
It is difficult for a few reasons, but beginning with “What does it mean to be a Christian in the public square?”, I think right there you would have an impossible time defining just this question.
If you get right down to brass tacks, I don’t think an authentic Christian nation could survivie in this world. For example, what differentiates Christianity from Judaism or Islam, is the radical love and forgiveness that God gives freely to the ungodly of all nations, which as forgiven repentent sinners, we are commanded in turn to give freely our neigbhors (yes, even our enemies). Somewhere it is written, “Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” Now I ask you, Could a nation operate this way in this world and survive for even a single year?
Therefore, I don’t think Christian Nationalism actually has anything to do with Christianity, because it is an impossibility, but with something else, something un-Christian actually. I do not like the word “Christian” being associated with this movement.
Duane,
I concur…but you knew that… š
Jean,
Very well said.
It would be impossible for an authentic Christian nation to survive for exactly the reasons you give.
You are also correct that CN has nothing in reality to do with Christianity.
By the way,
If people think society would benefit from having more Christians in it, then participate in and support (financially and with time and talents) your local church, because that is where Christians are made and nurtured, not by any government bearing the sword. Those are to different lanes.
Jean,
God’s plan has always been the local church (although people do a great job of messing it up!). But, where you find strong local churches, you usually find a beneficial, strong local influence. The churches in my area that people respect the most are the ones that run tutoring programs, food pantries, recreation programs, and senior services that are open to the entire community, not just the church. But, the big secret to these programs/ministries is that they are also vehicles of spreading the gospel. They aren’t “let’s ram the message down your throat while you pack your groceries”, but consistently sharing the message of the Savior who loves them, and that the people who serve in the ministry love them because of the love they have for Jesus.
I’ve worked in several such ministries (one where I worked full-time running my little preschool in a garage/after school tutoring programs and currently in my church where I help with children’s ministry in Spanish, translate for various large event outreaches, and head up our ESL program). I constantly meet people who started coming to our church food distribution, tutoring, ESL-and started to attend and came to faith. We don’t water down the gospel at all, but people who are looking for God really want to know the “whole” gospel, not just that we can do nice things for them.
Hi Linn,
Your last comment has brought me a lot of encouragement. Thank you!
You are blessed (and a blessing) to Iive in such a caring and impactful community. Your church reads like the light that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 5.
Jean,
My church is one of many like-minded churches in my area. We are in an area that is considered a “church desert” because so many churches have closed or become so small that they really struggle. But, the churches that are serving in their communities seem to be holding their own. It takes intentionality and leadership that is willing to see beyond the four walls of the church.
RE: Nr. 6 up-top:
I am immensely glad and I bless providence that church and state do not ride in the same cart here in America.
If they did, it would be as brutal a regime as any the world has seen.
The Founders of our Nation were very smart men to ensure that the two (church and state), never get entwined.
# 8 – I think one could make a pretty good case for Acts 19 showing a revival in Ephesus.
17Ā And this became known to all the residents of Ephesus, both Jews and Greeks. And fear fell upon them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was extolled. 18Ā Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices. 19Ā And a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted the value of them and found it came to fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20Ā So the word of the Lord continued to increase and prevail mightily.
Muff,
I concur…
Ben,
I think you have made an excellent point…worth looking into further.
Thanks!