Things I Think

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137 Responses

  1. Worth the wait, I hope the discussion is lively and good. Now reveal the biography please.

  2. Oh and it was an interesting weekend to be on the same side of the Strange Fire conference as certain discernment ministries.

  3. Steve Wright says:

    I have heard it said that when it comes to Christian biographies, they should only be written after death – because until we actually finish the race, there is no telling if our lives will merit such a book.

  4. Steve,

    Not only after death but after the dust has settled. I have been researching John Wimber and discovering that his persona was well known but not much reported. He was moody, intemperate, intolerant of failure, harsh to those close to him, often throwing angry fits and not quickly given to forgive and restore. And he was fatherly, wise, brilliant, generous, powerfully anointed, widely admired, incredibly capable and strong. The real guy was quite a combination of extremes.

  5. filbertz says:

    Biographies are often fascinating stories…sometimes too fictional to suit me. 😉 Biographies are usually evidence of a writer trying to cash in on someone else’s fame or infamy, but sometimes the content is a valuable contribution to understanding complex individuals.

  6. As for Mark Driscoll and his party crashing foray last week. It is laughable to me that he would fall in the category of charismatic. The gifts of the Spirit are about DOING not believing. He is just further attempting to broaden his market.

  7. Michael says:


    As I said, I have two autographed photos in my home.
    One, of course, is Jerry Lee Lewis.
    The other…and the subject of the biography…was Johnny Carson.

  8. Michael says:

    Driscoll and MacDonald are acting like teenage hoodlums pranking the body of Christ.
    This will not end well…

  9. Rob says:

    I think biographies should be written while the person is alive. That way, we can fact-check their claims, and know more accurately the character of the person.

    Long gone are the days when preachers can get away with the tall tales of what happened way back when over in deep dark Africa, or make claims about the astounding prophecies they supposedly made, or tell stories of how many people were healed.

    Sadly, Christians ate up these biographies, and these stories set the bar for what we think the Christian life/ministry should be. And, when we can’t quite achieve those lofty experiences, we think something is wrong.

    Well, something is wrong. Lots of preachers have written biographies that were full of baloney.

    Further, few people can recall in precise, accurate detail previous events, or recall old conversations word for word. Yet, we see events and conversations recorded in biographies as if the author had a photographic memory.

    Write the first biography while the person is alive. If is truthful, and confirms the person’s public claims, then perhaps more detailed biographies after death could be warranted.

  10. I would still like to explore JohnnyMac’s insistence that charismatic Christianity is strange fire. I particularly want to examine his assertion that Holy Spirit is offended at the worship offered by charismatics. I stated that presumably JMac showed us the kind of worship that is acceptable and desirous to God. I mean anyone who knows so much about what God prefers and what offends him should prescribe it as closely as possible.

  11. Michael says:


    You make some good points there…however, if some bios were written while the subject was living there would be hell to pay.

  12. filbertz says:

    Since I am out of the loop regarding Driscoll & MacDonald’s “pranks,” where might I go to find a summary of this weekend’s frivolities?

  13. Steve Wright says:

    If you might actually be helped by the ACA you probably should keep it to yourself…it’s another dividing line and the hate is flying.
    Sorry. When the majority of Americans have health insurance and the majority of those Americans are happy with their health insurance, the government has no right to screw up everything for those people under the pretext of helping a few. There was another way (and there were those on the other side who tried to offer compromise but Obama had the raw power and votes and told them “The election is over, I won”)

    America has never, EVER done massive legislation on this scope without true bipartisanship and compromise. The degree of pride that has led us to where we are now is astonishing and indefensible – all the more as it continues to show itself at every interview or press conference.

    This is a debacle of the highest order and the ball is just starting to roll downhill. If anyone really does care about the poor and middle class, they need to wake up that this already is and is going to continue to tremendously hurt such people as it just cripples our economy.

    That’s who I care about. If I was a political, partisan hack, I would be rejoicing at the failure and salivating for the 2014 elections. But I am a Christian that is grieved at how many Americans are going to get hurt before this is all over – and worried about the future “cure” when this thing finally comes crashing down.

    Frankly, if someone truly HAS been (not promises but actual HAS BEEN) helped they should not keep it quiet but should shout it from the rooftops – they might get the chance to introduce the President at his next speaking engagement like the women from Delaware did today who actually managed to enroll in a new plan.

    At least it would give them something to talk about besides the lies and misinformation coming from this administration.

    That dividing line you speak of…recognize you have Wolf Blitzer, Huffington Post and plenty of other folks found on the political left that all are on the same side as the majority of the country. It’s a train wreck.

    Frankly, other than some of our wars, I don’t know if the federal government has ever screwed up as badly as this is going to turn out.

  14. Michael says:


    MacArthur betrayed his own tradition.
    Sola scriptura demands that this should have been an exegetical argument, not an experiential one.
    The simple fact is that the cessasionist argument is so thin it would only fill an hour…not a conference.
    The best exegetical arguments for his position would require that he refute dispensationalism…

  15. filbertz says:

    BD–it should seem quite presumptuous that one would speak on behalf of God regarding His tastes. I do know how He likes His steaks though, “Well done, good and faithful servant.”

  16. Michael says:


    I wasn’t referencing the media, I was reflecting on a number of Facebook conversations I read over the weekend.
    Frankly, the rhetoric is so inflamed on both sides I don’t know what to believe…I do know a number of people that the program will help, including myself.

  17. Michael says:



  18. Ricky Bobby says:

    Rob said, “I think biographies should be written while the person is alive. That way, we can fact-check their claims, and know more accurately the character of the person.”

    That would be difficult b/c it would require honesty on the part of the biographee, and there are always major blind spots. It is very difficult to find a person who has an accurate self-perception and is honest about their strengths and weaknesses, victories and defeats and good deeds and bad sins.

  19. Steve Wright says:

    The best exegetical arguments for his position would require that he refute dispensationalism…
    Michael, that was maybe the most interesting thing about my Masters Thesis – given I went to a very dispensational, but very cessationist, seminary.

    I was able to use the same arguments of the dispensationalists and simply turn them around. You can quote a guy like Ryrie verbatim and apply it against the critics of charismatic gifts.

    And all but one of my professors was very charitable. The one who was not actually knew me well as a student, and his critiques kept coming back to personal attacks and not Scriptural refutations. “I can’t believe the same student I had all these years wrote this paper” Stuff like that.

    As an aside, I know he is a HUGE fan of MacArthur.

  20. Steve Wright says:

    I do know a number of people that the program will help, including myself.
    I hope it does, Michael. Truly I do.

    I am curious what has changed since you wrote, “The bottom line is that I’ll be paying about the same as I was under group health insurance when I was working….At this point, I do not see how this helps the unemployed or the working poor.”

    I keep reading, even in left-leaning media, the horror stories. The shocks and surprises. The frank criticisms of people who openly admit they support the law. What I don’t read are the success stories.

  21. Scott says:

    Steve, I agree with your assessment on the ACA. However, I guess if one disagrees with it and expresses their sentiment, they’re haters.

  22. Michael says:


    I have no issue with people disagreeing.
    What I have an issue with is the venom I’ve seen poured out on people who it actually helps.

  23. Bob Sweat says:

    Please, someone answer #12!

  24. Michael says:


    I missed that.
    I’ll find a link.

  25. Michael says:


    My initial thought was that people in those situations can’t afford any premium.
    For me, with pre existing conditions and chronic illness, it could be a life saver.

  26. Bob Sweat says:

    Thank you!

  27. Michael says:

    I just noticed that I’m not getting notifications when a comment is made or held for moderation.
    My apologies for that…not sure what the fix is.

  28. Ricky Bobby says:

    “1. My favorite genre of books is biographies.”

    I tend to look at the biography, the unauthorized biography and the autobiography to get what may be more well-rounded take on the particular person. Then I tend to think the truth lies somewhere where they all tend to intersect, though I do tend to believe family members and close-in behind the scenes sources who found there way on the outside…they tend to know the most and are the most motivated to tell the truth about the ugly stuff they saw, whereas those still in the fold are motivated to keep up the Propaganda and PR spin to protect the Brand and Legacy.

    “2. If we devoted half the time and energy we use in assigning blame for our problems to finding solutions for those problems, we might actually solve some problems.”

    Agreed. Run from Fundamentalism. Use your brain. Think for yourself. Don’t give Religion or a Group or Gurus power over your well-being. Rely on your Reason and Conscience and you won’t go wrong. There is power and freedom in Reason and Conscience…there is cult-like chains and mental/intellectual agony in dogmatic Fundamentalism. Take your power back and don’t blame others for being stupid enough to fall prey to the b.s.

    “3. If you might actually be helped by the ACA you probably should keep it to yourself…it’s another dividing line and the hate is flying.”

    Err, sort of, sort of not. It’s not that simplistic. There are macro-economic and systemic consequences to 0bamacare…and Steve W. touches on some of the realities.

    “4. Every professional sport has a Hall of Fame. The Bible has one in Hebrews 11. It is part of the Christian faith tradition to honor those who have accomplished much before us. Therefore, I have absolutely no issue with those folks who believe that they were touched positively by Chuck Smith’s ministry honoring him. Likewise, I have no issue with those who want to speak to the negative impact of his decisions as well. The Bible always shows us people in three dimensions…it’s honest about the sins of the people it celebrates despite them. That way, God gets the glory for using sinful, broken people in His grace and mercy.”

    No, this is contradicted by other bible narratives. There is an underlying premise as part of the biblical narrative to not make gods of men and personalities etc and another narrative that de-emphasizes the individual leader etc and warns and teaches against the sort of adulation and idolatry we see exampled in the CS passing etc. It’s another example of the Yin and Yang bible that states one set of principles in one narrative and then teaches the opposite in other narratives. It’s why it’s called Selective Fundamentalism.

    “5. We all have idols in our lives, foremost, the one in the mirror.”

    I used to believe this, but the more I explore the more I see that any sort of God relationship is entirely personal and individual in nature…and we may be truly “made in the image of God” or at least in our Conscience. There is much that the biblical narrative teaches that seems to support how individual salvation really is and how there is quite a relative nature to things that are not Absolute, but dependent on Conscience, circumstance, context etc.

    “6. I called Mark Driscoll and James McDonald horses asses on Facebook over the weekend. I just did it again.”

    Ya, they are, but Driscoll’s stunt at Strange Fire was pretty entertaining.

    “7. I have two autographed pictures in my home. The biography I referenced in #1 was about one of those signees. I wasn’t shocked by his sins, nor did they affect my estimation of his gifts in any way. The only parts that bothered me were the facts that he died without Christ and he died completely alone. I doubt that his fame comforted him then …or now.”

    He’s probably in the next and experiencing the true love, mercy and goodness of a Good, Loving and Merciful and Holy God who loves his enemies at this moment.

    “8. The older I get and the more I know of Christ, sin saddens me far more than it angers me.”

    It doesn’t sadden me anymore, not more than inevitabilities like viruses or bacterial infections sadden me. It’s part of this existence. We should seek to mitigate it, but it’s as biological in nature as the flu.

    “9. John MacArthur could have made a huge contribution to the body of Christ over the weekend if he had chosen to invite charismatics to a conference to dialog about the issues he perceives in that camp. Instead, he divided us once more…which is as wicked as any charismatic excess.”

    Not wicked at all. Just Johnny Mac doing what he believes. I think he’s wrong, but he’s sincerely wrong.

    “10. Black and white thinking usually testifies to the fact that you are color blind”

    Agreed. That’s how you and other Fundamentalists view the bible through Selective Fundamentalism.

  29. jamesk says:

    @21 Don’t forget racist.

  30. Kid Dynomite says:

    Re: ACA

    I like Dilbert’s perspective.

  31. A Believer says:

    The above link is David Hayward’s response to MacArthur.

  32. A Believer says:

    David Hayward is the guy who does the “Naked Pastor” cartoons- a longtime favorite of many in the PP crowd.

  33. Ricky Bobby says:

    Ricky B. said, “here is much that the biblical narrative teaches that seems to support how individual salvation really is and how there is quite a relative nature to things that are not Absolute, but dependent on Conscience, circumstance, context etc.”

    To expound on this: Those who know for sure, say like a Judas Iscariot…may in fact be damned.

    Those who sincerely aren’t sure or don’t know…like say the Atheist or Agnostic…may in fact have a chance in the next.

    Very possible, if God is truly loving, merciful, good, etc. Though, if God truly loves his enemies, even Judas (if he was a literal person) could be redeemed as well.

    I guess we’ll find out someday.

  34. Michael, I wish it would’ve come about in a different way, but I really do hope you can get the health care that you need.

  35. I got rid of most of my MacArthur books a while back, but held on to two that I thought were pretty good. It’s all I can do right now not to throw them in the fireplace. Oh…and I also have a Mac Study Bible. I’ve found it to be useful, and I would never burn or throw away a Bible (except for the JW or other cultic version), but…Grrrr…

  36. Now it’s time to start culling my James MacDonald stuff! I don’t have any Driscoll materials to get rid of, as I never did care for him anyway.

  37. PP Vet says:

    I love charismatic access.

  38. Ricky Bobby says:

    Well, I won’t be getting rid of my picture of me and Mac at TMC graduation, LOL…even though I’m quite sure he thinks I’m a hell-bound unregenerate false convert.

    That’s OK, I have real faith and hope in a good loving merciful God…and my faith is not predicated on the opinion of another fallen fallible finite man…no matter how many books, followers and colleges he has.

  39. Steve Wright says:

    For me, with pre existing conditions and chronic illness, it could be a life saver.
    Yes. And there is zero excuse for there not to have been a bipartisan compromise for this and a couple other (and literally there are only a couple other) problems to our existing system before Obamacare. A few blatant problems should have been identified and a solution worked towards. I bet a dozen of us on this blog could have put together something that fairly addressed them all, and accomplished true reform.

    We certainly have more experience as consumers, providers, and users of healthcare and health insurance than career politicians and their aides in Washington D.C.

    Unfortunately, the way the law is designed to help people like yourself, requires the active participation of multiple others. Not just their tax dollars. Otherwise, in a very short time you too will find yourself priced out of the market and/or losing your primary medical providers.

    Of course, it sounds like if you get work soon you already will be priced out of the market even now – if memory serves from your prior post.

  40. I loved Johnny Carson! In my much younger days, I would stay up to watch him almost every night. His on-stage persona was so different from his truly shy, private personality (reminds a lot of myself actually). The other day, I was watching a YouTube video of the Tonight Show with Frank Sinatra and Don Rickles. And I loved his skits, especially when something would go wrong and he and Ed would start cracking up. Funny stuff!

  41. Ixtlan says:

    @6 and 7

    Good observations, both of you. This is about gaining market share of which most well known celebrities in the church are aware of, although they tell themselves and everyone else it is about furthering “the gospel”, that is, their gospel. Very little of what we saw last week looked like the gospel of Christ.

    Perhaps it may end well for Driscoll and MacDonald. They have long since jumped of the tightrope of virtue and walk in vice. Unfortunately, they are billboards of the soul of the church.

  42. Dude says:

    I have a criteria when it comed to biographies,If the dark side isnt put forth as well has the great stuff ,its not worth reading.Last year I read a thick one on Ronald Reagans life.At least half of the bio was about his steady stream of mistakes and personal failures thru out his life and made it to the oval office ……and made more mistakes.

  43. Steve Wright says:

    Many corporations offer limited benefit health insurance coverage to workers who are part time. However, Obamacare basically forbids this from continuing since policies must have a certain standard that the Obamacare burueacrats determine.

    So the law actually tells corporations A ) they are not allowed to offer such limited coverage to their part time employees, BUT B ) the law says the employers have the government’s blessing to not offer these employees anything in the way of coverage – and make them go on their own to the computer to purchase it. Which an employee must then do or else get fined by that same government.

    Two people at our church work for companies that this has now happened to, and I just read of another corp forced to stop offering healthcare coverage to parttimers because Obama says it isn’t good enough coverage.

    How can the federal government actually prohibit a business from offering coverage, while simultaneously encouraging a business to not offer coverage…. if the goal is to get people covered???!!!

  44. MIchael,
    Can I ask a question?
    Have you been able to actually register on yet?

  45. filbertz says:

    the affordability of the ACA is doubtful, but the rates will surely climb consistently and steeply as they have for years. The only ‘winners’ will be the insurance companies, but they will claim poverty and spend massive quantities on lobbyists to twist govt’s arm into subsidizing them further.

    wow. the world sure is green through these jade-colored glasses.

  46. filbertz says:

    I think charismatics are the answer to the health care crisis.

    pray for healing. 😉

  47. jamesk says:

    @45 Because the goal is to get people covered by the governments insurance. The goal is a single payer system.

  48. jamesk says:

    Sorry, *government’s*

  49. Michael says:


    Oregon has it’s own site.

  50. Steve Wright says:

    Oregon has it’s own site.
    The latest excuse is this is the fault of the GOP governors who “refused” to set up their own sites. Even though the Obamacare law gave them that right and the Supreme Court upheld that too in their decision.

    Wisely in my opinion, not just because it is smart not to get yourself involved in an obvious trainwreck, but because much of Obamacare is merely expanding Medicaid coverage, which of course states also have to pay for as they set up their own exchanges. Who will bail out the states when the fed money dries up after the early, guaranteed years?

    If I was a governor (of whatever party) I would let the feds own the whole thing, lock, stock and barrel.

    Anyway, watch for that excuse to make the rounds at a media outlet near you.

    Eventually, this will probably just be Bush’s fault. 🙂

  51. #3 Sort of makes people having to pay jacked up prices for healthcare look like they are whining. Sorry, but a lot of people are going to be paying more because they decided to monkey with health insurance for EVERYONE.

  52. Haters is right, Scott.

  53. Michael says:

    I didn’t say anything about anyone being a whiner.
    I have watched a number of threads on Facebook and seen way too many vicious replies when people said something positive about the program.

  54. Jtk says:

    as a passionate fan of evangelism, I’d love to hear what a JMac appeal to a charismatic (an unbeliever in his eyes) is…

    I’ve never seen the discernment peeps or the cult watchers active in evangelism or winning anyone who is lost

  55. Steve Wright says:

    Could not agree with Matt Walsh more. An education is needed. The whole thing deserves a read but it would take hours.

    In the meantime, here are the tales of many, many, many real Americans. Share this with your friends. Every time some Statist nincompoop extols the virtues of Obamacare; every time they insist that the “Affordable Care Act” has done nothing but “help” low and middle income families; every time they babble incoherently about how Obamacare isn’t “perfect” but it’s still “better” than what we had before — show them this. Challenge them to read what is happening out there. This isn’t abstract. It isn’t academic. It isn’t a matter of ideology. It isn’t even an issue of constitutionality (although it’s that, also). This is about people. People with kids, and bills, and health problems. This is about people who can no longer afford their health coverage, their mortgages, their lifesaving medication. This is about doctors and nurses leaving medicine behind, driven away by destructive bureaucratic interference. This is about moms and dads losing their jobs so that their employers can compensate for the financial burden of Obamacare. This is about people without insurance because of Obamacare, now being fined for not having insurance because of Obamacare. This is about business owners driven to the edge of bankruptcy. This is real. We heard a lot of fantasies about what Obamacare was “supposed” to accomplish, now it’s time to talk about what it’s actually doing.

    So when they say you are “heartless” for opposing Obamacare, show them why it’s heartless to support it.

  56. I just hope that America can heal the healthcare malaise. We suck at so many things. I wish we could heal as well as we make war.

  57. Steve Wright says:

    America has the best healthCARE in the world. Our delivery system sucks.

  58. erunner says:

    #1 and 2….. Joni and Brian Doerksen are two people in the Christian spotlight who many look up to in a big way. Joni, for how she has handled life being a quadriplegic and Brian for being an outstanding song writer and singer.

    Joni has helped people in ways many never hear about and Brian has two sons with Fragile X Syndrome. Back in 2008 Joni’s ministry did a video story about Brian’s family and how they have lived with two sons who have “mental handicaps.”

    I ran the story again today for maybe the third time on my blog. Maybe you or a loved one have a handicapped child or are struggling with trials in your life. If you are I believe you will be encouraged by this video. It’s about 28 minutes and is worth the time. There are more heroes around us than we are aware of.

  59. Ricky Bobby says:

    JTK said, “I’ve never seen the discernment peeps or the cult watchers active in evangelism or winning anyone who is lost”

    And, I’ve never seen you or any evangelical quid pro quo gospel salesman ‘win anyone who is lost”…I thought God did that and not you…or do “you” win them and save them?

  60. Michael says:

    God uses the proclamation of the Gospel to bring in the elect.

    “How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.”
    (Romans 10:14–17 ESV)

  61. Ricky Bobby says:

    Michael, does God exclusively use the Gospel or does he save some without the Gospel?

    Did those in the OT hear the gospel? Nope.

    What about unborn children, those raised in tribes in the Amazon, pretty much most of humanity who never heard the “gospel” and those who are retarded etc? (though MLD seems to acknowledge hearing and understanding the gospel so he’s the exception not the rule LOL).

    This is where you usually invoke “mystery” etc.

    Seems if the Gospel “hearing” is prerequisite to being saved or validation of being elect, then anyone who doesn’t hear the gospel wasn’t elect and that God chose to not send them the gospel..ergo Double Predestination…ergo God picks winners and losers…ergo not “good” and not “love” etc. in the Universally accepted sense of the word.

    It’s a false god, IMO.

  62. brian says:

    How I have come to understand it if you are sick and do not have money die, if you have money and are sick live until you dont have money they die, let the legal system allow your children to take your money then die. If you have neither then go right to die. That about sums it up.

  63. “Did those in the OT hear the gospel? Nope.”

    Think again Bosco – Genesis 3:15 – the gospel is all over the OT.

    When David heard the words of forgiveness from Nathan, he heard the gospel.

  64. “and that God chose to not send them the gospel..”

    He chose to send them the gospel, but you refused to go.

  65. Ricky Bobby says:

    The gospel is the curse on the snake?

  66. brian says:

    RB hope all is well, there is actually some wonderful reflections of the Gospel in the OT, the Psalms, the story of Joseph, Moses, David, even Samson and the other people in the book of judges, sort of like Isreal screwed up, Isreal got in trouble if you will and God sent a judge to deliver them. Isaiah, Ruth is a wonderful reflection of Christ in the OT. Many of the minor prophets, are also little glimpses of the Gospel. I even think the reflection of the building of the temple could be a type of reflection of Christ. Not a very thorough rendition. There are some wonderful books on this subject, let me look and see if I can find some resources. Take care.

  67. brian says:

    Oh man I said something positive, sorry about that. 🙂

  68. London says:

    I wish all the posts about the ACA would show up in some different kind of font so I could have a visual way to know to not read them. That way my blood pressure won’t rise and cause me to need to use the healthcare facilities.

  69. brian says:

    London it is a very complex situation I have read every single aspect of this act, some 900+ pages and the supporting documentation. From my perspective it is simple, dont get sick, and if you do get sick and do not have private funds die. That about sums in up for me, before the care act and after it. Dying should be cheap and clean. God knows Christians hate mess. My family tried to avoid that. Even refusing treatment so they could die cheap. I wish that for myself as well, God kill be before I cost any money. I have actually prayed that several times in my life.

  70. brian says:

    Let me reiterate God KILL me before I Cost any money whatsoever or time even a second. Yup that about sums up my Christian experience. No good news there so we can move along.

  71. London says:

    Oh believe me, I fully understand its a complex situation.
    I make my living in healthcare IT.
    I get it.

  72. Brian at #70: “Oh man I said something positive, sorry about that.”

    That cracked me up!

  73. Gary says:

    Yeah, brian DOES have a sense of humor. Don’t worry, brian. I won’t tell anybody.

  74. Make or Mar Your Ministry

    Posted: 22 Oct 2013 03:00 AM PDT by Chuck Swindoll

    I don’t think the Lord gives mates to us pastors to frustrate us.

    God gives a pastor a wife for life, knowing full well that it will take time to cultivate that relationship. In fact, when we give our time to our spouse, we are demonstrating devotion to Christ. I don’t think we’re missing out on anything God has for us to do at the church.

    A passage we’ve read many times—maybe even preached—also applies to those of us who are engaged in ministry:

    One who is married is concerned about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and his interests are divided. (1 Corinthians 7:33–34)

    Unfortunately, we live in a day in which people think if our activity is not at the church, it lacks devotion to Jesus. As pastors, we can believe that lie if we don’t continually guard against it.

    One of my cherished mentors, Dr. Howard Hendricks, once made a tremendous statement: “Your marriage will either make or mar your ministry.”

    It has taken years for me to get my arms around that significant statement . . . and I’m still learning the truth of its implications.

    Does spending time with your wife take away from your time with God and your work for God?

    In a word: Yes.

    And it should.


  75. Nonnie says:

    I think loving couples spending time with one another IS part of our time with God and is a work of and for God.

  76. Yes Nonnie, exactly!

  77. Steve Wright says:

    God’s command is for a man to love his wife.

    So how is doing so then ‘taking away from your work for God”

    I really like Swindoll (and Hendricks) but not sure I am a fan of how they are phrasing all that – though I get where they are coming from too.

  78. Nonnie says:

    Steve, I agree, completely. (thus my number 78)

  79. PP Vet says:

    Todd Bentley will be at the Empower Church in Medford October 24-27.

  80. A pic of Todd and Michael would be the funniest thing I have ever seen.

  81. Michael says:

    That could get real ugly…and it will if I can make it happen.
    That loathsome bastard has no business in our town.

  82. I’d pay to see it.

    Of course he lived right here with Joyner for a year or so, and I managed to stay away.

  83. Michael says:

    I’ve never heard of this church and they are meeting in a couple of dumps.
    I’m going to try to get our local Christian media to do an expose on this clown before he fleeces our people.
    Then I’ll try to run the whole damn bunch out on a rail.

  84. Michael says:

    If this were the 80’s that asshat wouldn’t even be allowed off the plane.

  85. In that respect, I do live in the capitol of Christian money-grubbers. There is no way I could keep all of them out.

  86. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    God didn’t give us a spirit of Fear but of Power, Love and a Sound Mind. I hope that Pastors are not putting their congregations in a State of Fear with this Obama care stuff. That would be irresponsible. Jesus even said not to worry about tomorrow. I’ll take his word over Man’s anyday!!

  87. London says:

    .go get em Michael!,

  88. brian says:

    Here is the link to the event Michael, I will try to get more info. Thanks Brian

  89. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    “Loathesome bastard”

    Come on Michael! The bible says to speak evil of no one. Even the Angels didn’t bring a reviling accusation against the devil before God

  90. brian says:

    I think this is the church’s facebook page

    Hope that helps


  91. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Re: ACA- Yes lots of whining going on from Conservative peeps!

  92. London says:

    It’s not evil if its true

  93. Solomon Rodriguez says:


    I call b.s. on that, the bible is clear on evil speaking. Okay to criticize amd expose but vile name calling Nope! Michael and I have our failings so I am no one to speak evil of anyone. Again criticize yes but not name call.

  94. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Anyways, I’m not a fan of the dude but didn’t he repent?

  95. brian says:

    loath·some [lohth-suhm, lohth-]
    causing feelings of loathing; disgusting; revolting; repulsive: a loathsome skin disease.

    informal definition of “bastard”
    an unpleasant or despicable person.”he lied to me, the bastard!”
    synonyms: scoundrel, villain, rogue, rascal, weasel, snake, snake in the grass, miscreant, good-for-nothing, reprobate;

    taken from

  96. brian says:

    He repented with his new wife in a new house after having a year off living in another house for free. From what I understand but I could be wrong.

  97. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    If its okay to call someone that, then I should her no more crying from folk here that get their feelings hurt from far less offensive talk. If you can dish it, better be able to take it!

  98. brian says:

    I dont think I would use the phrase myself but the things this guy did are awful and it still goes on.

  99. Michael says:


    You can call vermin that take advantage of children with cancer and their frantic, grieving mothers anything you want to on your blog.
    On this blog I called him what he is.
    Your verse is taken out of context, as usual.

  100. Michael says:


    Thank you for the info.
    Nothing here adds up…this church is new and the meetings are in very small places that most people here avoid.
    I’ll be working on this tomorrow…

  101. Solomon Rodriguez says:


    You are prideful

  102. Michael says:


    You’re right…and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
    I am a sinner by birth and by choice.
    I’m still going to do everything in my power to stop this swine from afflicting my hometown.
    You can do as you please.

  103. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Let our speech be seasoned with salt

  104. brian says:

    Im a wimp for the most part so I dont usually challenge people to their face. I dont know what I would do if I saw Mr. Bentley, I might mention that he should not kick people any more and what he did to his sick wife, who was / is a wonderful person from what I have seen on some old video’s. It was not right that he left her. The second Mrs. Bentley I might mention she should not shake her head so much you really can hurt your neck, I have seen it happen seriously with students that shake like that. I mean it really can mess up your neck and back.

    That is fairly benign, now Mr. Joiner would be a different story he holds alot of the responsibility for Mr. Bentley being back in the circus. As for the miracles and anointing. You know I have tried that, to my shame, a few times. Back when I was really sick and sad going to those churches looking for some type of healing and grace. It is an unreasonable expectation and I accept that but I did go. In the big show I went to a Kenneth hagin meeting one time and there as all the falling down nonsense and wiggling around like someone put itching powder on you or after working with fiberglass man I hated working with that stuff. They took up four or five offerings in about an hour, even had a change offering where people were literally digging through their pockets for change. I left after that on my way to the door one of the ushers stopped me and asked why I was leaving, I told him I had to put more change in the parking meter (there were no parking meters). He looked at me strange and I walked out. While in the meeting I did go forward to see if God would floor me. The guy pushed on my head and I said ow that hurts with a smile and he moved on to the next person who promptly fell down on the floor. I excused myself.

    One other revival some lady kept trying to get the devil out of me and was casting out this or that spirit and, i was sorry later, but I kept laughing. It was like when people were trying to get me to speak in tongues they kept saying just let it out and praying in tongues over me saying receive it brother and so on. Nothing at all happened not even a special feeling. I just got tired of listening to it and left quietly. I have really had one supernatural encounter, well from God I have had all sorts of “encounters” from evil, the room moving, that dark evil presence, the dream of my dead brother reaching for me out of his casket and dragging me down to hell and other such silliness. I am weak and admit it.

    This encounter was in the hall of a convalescent hospital, it was an inner voice louder then thunder but gentle so sweetly moving. It said “help them”. Thats it, and it was one of the most profound moments of my life and I have lived by that moment for some 32 some odd years. Part of me counts that pathetic at best because its emotional and it really was no big moment. I mean Bentley and them seem to have daily chats with God, see visions and just make stuff up as they go along. I actually all that anointing stuff was true, its not on its face, never has been but I do wish it was.

  105. brian says:

    “I’m still going to do everything in my power to stop this swine from afflicting my hometown.”

    You could call the Catholic diocese and warn them, they have a long reach. It is most likely to close to have any effect but the lumbering sleeping Mainline denominations will be around long after TB gets back in his clown car and rides off. That may be far more help to the people caught up in it.

  106. covered says:

    SolRod, are you serious? Speak evil of no one? The way you bad mouth Steve and all things Calvary and yet all you know about either one is what you read on another blog. You may call B.S. but you are a hypocrite! For the record, I have a bone to pick with many CC’s but it’s based on experience not heresay.

  107. Solomon Rodriguez says:


    I went to CC so you don’t know anything of what I experienced. I really don’t spend much time on the other blog so get your facts straight. I never spoken evil of Steve just disagreed with him and called him out on some stuff so again back your crap up. What I did or did not experience is none of your business. You obviously have a thing for me which is why you keep addressing me. You are aptly named “covered” too much of a spineless wimp to reveal ur true self. I put my name on it cuz I fear only God!

  108. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Lets see, in this same blog some time ago yall here stated that people who got unbiblically divorced and then remarried should not leave their current spouse. So what is the difference with Todd Bentley? Isn’t their repentance for him? Who are u guys to judge his heart?

  109. London says:

    Oh please!

  110. @97 Bentley didn’t actually repent of anything he just apologized.

  111. Gary says:

    I don’t know about Bentley but it’s true- an apology may not come from repentance. The worst apology I ever heard went like this: “I’m sorry you misunderstood” when I was told to never visit this person again.

    There is repentance for everyone. Can we see some fruit please? Public sin needs public confession which means pastors need to confess certain sins publicly a la John the baptizer. I don’t ask anything I wouldn’t do or haven’t done. The scope of the sin is the scope of the repentance. True repentance looks like healthy fruit.

    I have a ministry of apologetics. I say dumb things. I apologize. My former pastor loved hearing it. My wife never tires of hearing it. She’s been putting up with me for almost 39 years and I love her.

  112. Oh No says:

    SolRod must really enjoy reading what he writes. Maybe his words make sense to himself.

  113. Brian, weak? Walking out of those contrived situations, then spending all these years helping people who, for the most part, have been kicked to the curb is not weak. You are a warrior!

  114. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    “SolRod must really enjoy reading what he writes. Maybe his words make sense to himself.”

    I just call like it like I see it and don’t make excuses for the Blog King here and kiss his ass. Many here are hypocrites who extend Grace to whom they like but others no Grace.

  115. PP Vet says:

    “Many here are hypocrites who extend Grace to whom they like but others no Grace.”

    How could we deny it: that is a fair statement.

    A theme of this site is distinguishing between shepherds and wolves.

    Once some poor person has been categorized here as “wolf”, yes, the Grace stops.

    Good-hearted shepherds, however incompetent, confused, and quixotic they may appear, get Grace.

  116. Michael says:


    There is a great mystery here to me.
    You don’t like me, yet you read the blog and feel compelled to comment on it.
    As for being the “blog king”, I own the site, pay for the site, and provide almost all the content for the site.
    Who else should run it?
    Do you leave your keys in your car so anyone can drive it anywhere they choose?
    Can folks just walk into your house open the refrigerator and have a snack?
    Can someone walk in, grab the remote and change the channel whilst eating the snack?
    If someone walks into your home and insults you and your family, do you enjoy the visit and invite them back?
    Life is too short…you should visit sites that you enjoy.

  117. PP Vet says:

    Maybe the “hypocrite” thing is a little strong.

  118. Michael says:

    PP Vet,

    The grace stops for unrepentant wolves.
    Repentant wolves get as much as they need.

  119. Michael says:

    PP Vet,

    Thank you letting us know about Bentleys visit…we are doing all we can to make it the most miserable three days of his wicked life.

  120. PP Vet says:

    And thank you for being the habanero in my otherwise too often unflavorful existence.

  121. Xenia says:

    Is it known for a fact that TB has not repented? Maybe preaching at a small church with no hype is the fruit of his repentance?

  122. Michael says:


    His repentance (if there was any) should be as well known as his sin.
    I’ve seen absolutely nothing to indicate that he’s anything but the vile charlatan he’s always been.

  123. Solomon Rodriguez says:


    I never said I didn’t like you or even Steve I just disagree with you guys at times. Let’s be big boys about this, we don’t always have to agree. Disagreement and debate is very healthy

  124. Gary says:

    Sol may be a saint but a big boy he ain’t.

  125. PP Vet says:

    RJoyner is a funny guy – he loves to pull people out of the dumpster: JimBakker, ToddB, others.

    I cannot accept the argument that he does it for self-promotion – that just does not add up!

    But sometimes the Dumpster Experience may not appear to be very transformational in our lives.

    I am having trouble seeing much real change in my dear brother JimB – he seems to be the same huckster as ever. But I have no proof of that. I am sure he has matured and grown, so maybe it is just his ministry tactics that have persevered.

    What it did or did not do for Todd ultimately is yet to be seen. I do not think he has yet proven that he has not repented. In such cases, we must give the benefit of the doubt.

  126. Oh No says:

    Solomon at #92

    “Loathesome bastard”

    “Come on Michael! The bible says to speak evil of no one. Even the Angels didn’t bring a reviling accusation against the devil before God.”

    Solomon at #117

    “I just call like it like I see it and don’t make excuses for the Blog King here and kiss his ass. Many here are hypocrites who extend Grace to whom they like but others no Grace.”


  127. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    “Sol may be a saint but a big boy he ain’t.”

    Maybe the little boys are the ones who can’t humble themselves and make excuses for their words. I have a few times apologized here for my words. By the way Gary, I’m 6’0 218 pounds of steel and sex appeal 🙂

  128. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    Oh No,

    yeah Hypocrites and Loathesome bastard is apples to apples

  129. “By the way Gary, I’m 6’0 218 pounds of steel and sex appeal”

    I think I saw that ad on Craigslist once. 😉

  130. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    “I think I saw that ad on Craigslist once”

    Which category?

  131. Gary says:

    You missed it, Sol. I was making a spiritual application, not Friday Night Wrestling.

    “ARE YOU READY TO HUMBLE…” Sometimes apples is rotten tomatoes.

  132. Steve Wright says:

    Michael has a chance to be #1!

    Officials for Oregon’s health insurance exchange on Thursday reported some progress, but acknowledged a major fix to the problem-plagued site may not happen this month as hoped.The website still has not enrolled anyone.

    This is the state-run system. Not the federal nightmare. 25 days and not one enrollment.

  133. Gary says:

    Excellent article, PP Vet

    Can’t you just see the apostle John putting down his pen after writing the book of Revelation and thinking “That’s queer, something is missing. Where did God go? I’d better read this thing I just wrote. Maybe if I read it every day God’s Spirit will come back.”

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