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93 Responses

  1. jamesk says:

    Good article on halloween. I once lived in an area where the local wiccans celebrated the day. The evil presence that came from their ceremony was almost overwhelming. I kinda wish all Christians would experience that just once.

  2. Michael says:

    According to the quiz, I’m 78% Calvinist.
    That’s about right…

  3. Nonnie says:

    I really like Matt Redmond’s article.

  4. Michael says:

    I always like Matt…

  5. “Which Christian denomination do you belong to?
    Your Result: Baptist

    As a Baptist, you believe that the saved are commanded to be baptised as a public display of their faith. You are strongly opposed to the whole idea of infant baptism. After all, it’s not recored in the Bible, and it is impossible for a child, still innocent in the eyes of God, to accept Christ with all its heart, and be forgiven for future sins. Baptists share many views with mainstream reformed churches regarding matters such as infallable scripture, evangelism, the Trinity, and the Second Coming of Christ. However, Baptists also place a huge emphasis on religious freedom, believing strongly in the autonomy of local churches, and more generally the separation of church and state”

    Who woulda guessed it? 🙂

  6. Nonnie says:

    I’m 85% Puritan! Not quite sure what to think of that. 😀

  7. Matt Redmond seems to be finally understanding the Radical stuff 🙂

  8. jamesk says:

    85% Baptist, 83% Puritan, 76% Calvinist.

  9. Michael says:


    I won’t tell George…

  10. Nonnie says:


  11. Steve Wright says:

    I’m a Baptist (not the first time I’ve been told that)

    Scored higher than Pentecostal, even though I answered yes on the tongues question.

    The tongues question was the one question I really felt needed a different option to express my view.

  12. Nonnie says:

    There were a few answers that I wanted to say, “Yea, but……”

  13. Welcome home, all my new baptist friends!

  14. jamesk says:

    I love how they left no tension between God’s sovereignty and man’s free will.

  15. I’ll try the quiz later, but for now, just want to say the Open Letter to Driscoll was well done, IMNSHO.

  16. Michael says:


    That would be because classic Calvinists don’t believe in “free will” .

  17. jamesk says:

    @13 Always kind of considered myself Bapticostal. 🙂

  18. jamesk says:

    @16 I get that, I just found it interesting. It was a question where I wanted to select both.

  19. Steve Wright says:

    Yeah, you sort of have to pick the answer you know they are shooting for to pigeon hole you. I caught myself on the one about church unity and actually changed my answer since I realized what they were looking for there… 🙂

  20. Steve Wright says:

    There is a fascinating sub-story in the comments of the millennial article that is the subject of this blog constantly.

    Namely that “Moses” often is not the pastor, but is found in the business meetings.

    Check out this guy’s story from the comments.

    A few years ago I pastored a certain church for 4 years. When I started there, they had about 14 people attending church. Within 2 years the attendance started growing (I’ll explain this in the next paragraph). I dreaded the business meetings, though (we call them Board meetings). The board was made up of a handful of people who, over the years, had re-elected themselves each and every year. I tried to bring new people to the Board. I was successful in getting a 2 or 3 new people on the Board. But they didn’t stay long because of all the bickering and harsh talk that took place in the meetings. Nothing good never got accomplished in any of the Board meetings. I would leave the meetings feeling discouraged and beaten down. There was one man on the Board who was so hateful I don’t think Satan could gotten along with him.
    Despite all this mess, though, the church did grow–for a short period. I worked tirelessly. I visited and prayed with people in the community whom the church had neglected for years. Within 3 years, the attendance grew from 14 to between 70- 80 people attending–among that number were several young people (between 18-30 years of age). Many of the young people helped in the VBS, some of them taught Sunday school, and some of them were wonderful singers. I started allowing those who wanted to sing, help me with the Sunday evening services.
    Well, to make a long story short, all this was too good to last long. It lasted about 12 months. The handful of Board members got jealous and began making it known to all the church that they believed “the young people were taking over the church.” I had been there 3 years, when one Sunday evening, as I was preparing to preach, a lady on the Board interrupted me with these words: “Those old people out there in that cemetery, if they knew these young people were in here taking over this church they would turn over in their graves.” Those words hit me like a ton of ice. Sadly, those words put in motion the leaving of all the new people. A handful of Board members, bent on keeping control at whatever cost, emptied the church house of all the new growth. So that left only me–their main target. Needless to say, but I left beaten and bruised. I’m thankful to God, though, that I was able to learn a valuable lesson from all of it.

  21. Bob Sweat says:

    I fail to believe the validity of the denomination quiz. The main reason being it showed I was a Baptist!!!!!!!!!! No way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I tied so hard to be a Lutheran. Even answered the question about infant baptism the way MLD would answer.

  22. London says:

    78% Methodist.
    69% each penocostal, Lutheran and baptist.

  23. Xenia says:

    Took the quiz, which did not take the 2nd largest body of Christians on planet earth into account. I am “none of the above.”

    Best they could do was declare I was 78% percent Roman Catholic.

    The questions all used western Christian terminology and were difficult to answer correctly.

  24. Xenia says:

    We have a slogan in Ortholandia:

    We are not denominational, we are pre-denominational.
    We are evangelical but we are not Protestants.
    We are catholics but not Roman Catholics.

  25. Xenia says:

    Neither Congregationalism or the Moses model work well, in my opinion, having been part of both kinds of churches. Frankly, the Moses model works better than the congregational model. I’ve seen with my own eyeballs stories like Steve told up in #20. Worse than anything I ever saw at CC.

    The Bible talks about bishops. St. Ignatius, whose life overlapped that of Christ’s, spoke of bishops-priests-deacons as the proper form of church government.

  26. Xenia says:

    The worst abuse I saw in the Congregational model was an episode were a few old cranks wanted a certain program to be dropped and didn’t know if the congregation would go along with them so before the meeting they called all the lapsed members who seldom came to church and got them to pack out the house to get their own way. What a travesty that was. That church (it was Baptist) could never keep a pastor more than a few years.

  27. Steve Wright says:

    Also to be clear, that one comment I cut/pastes here is not the only one. The whole comments section is an interesting read….like I said…the sub/story

  28. The worst abuse I ever saw personally was in an elder-led church. I think something similar is going on in James MacDonald’s church. Put a lot of yes-men as elders and you can steam-roll everyone. The most abusive system I’ve ever heard of, but wasn’t around, was the Catholic sex-scandal.

    So there, in just the last few comments, we’ve shown that Moses Model, Congregational, Roman Catholic, and Elder-led churches can all be horribly abusive.

  29. Very much liked the Open Letter to Driscoll.

    Didn’t love How Great thou Art…but I’m a music snob.

    BioLogos are not helping their credibility by responding to guys like Ken Ham.

  30. covered says:

    A young man from our church called me last Saturday to ask about tithing. Apparently his mom is a recent widow and the church (Catholic), wants a revised financial commitment letter. He said that they are looking for a revised amount of tithe they can count on before they can confirm her membership. Michael, this church is in a town between you and I in OR. This is abuse as far as I’m concerned.

  31. Rob Murphy says:

    Pentecostal Baptist Calvinist.

    You people have ruined me. Yust Kiddings!!

    I think pigeon holed is the phrase that pays, but I also think I’d get different answers from me 15 years ago. Without water boarding or jumper cables.
    That’s either really interesting or really damning. Darning. See? That Baptist tendency is making me give second thought to my word selection.

  32. j2theperson says:

    It said I was 82% Methodist and 72% Episcopalian. I’m not going to stop going to my episcopalian church to try out some of the methodist ones instead. Some of the questions were difficult to answer because they had such stark choices none of which really fit my view.

  33. j2theperson says:

    I felt the article about men leaving the church did not adequately explain the phenomenon. It claims that men have certain questions they want answered and certain needs they want filled, but by and large the questions and needs presented in the article do not strike me as being unique to men but rather thing that people in general, male or female, desire.

  34. j2theperson says:

    ***BioLogos are not helping their credibility by responding to guys like Ken Ham.***

    Hah! When my daughter was baptized one of our family members gave her Ken Ham’s “creation bible” as a baptism gift. I flipped through it and just cringed. I believe in some kind of intelligent design, but the book just seemed so unscientific and mindless and it seemed really odd to me how they managed to work some anti-homosexual sentiment in there when that really has nothing to do with creation and is not necessarily something you should be throwing at a young child anyways. I feel like I can’t throw the book out, though, because it was a gift from a family member. She’s only 16mo old so she can’t read. When she brings the book to me to flip through I just describe the pictures to her instead of reading the story.

  35. Dude says:

    Took 2 of the quizes 90 percent baptist and the rest the p..word.The questions were to narrow.

  36. everstudy says:

    92% Puritan
    86% Baptist
    82% Lutheran
    81% Calvinist

    Not too surprised.

  37. filbertz says:

    gasp. I’m more calvinist than Michael.

    Geneva, I’m coming home!!

  38. covered says:

    I’m a Pentacostal then a Baptist! What the heck, who knew?

  39. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    I guess I’m a Methodist

  40. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    good article about men leaving the Church, it resonates with me

  41. The denom. quiz is bogus! So many things NOT taken into consideration. Nonetheless…
    89% Calvinist
    84% Puritan
    82% Baptist
    73% Pentecostal


  42. I read the article on why men are leaving the church, and I don’t necessarily disagree with the reasons, but why is it that much of the time, when these types of questions are answered, the reasons begin with something like “What people/men/women/youth/families are looking for is…”

    How about “According to scripture, a man of God is…” or “What God wants for His church is…?”

  43. The denomination test was 86% useless and inadequate

  44. Former Preacher says:

    Some odd questions on that quiz…I still came out a Puritan but there were several questions that I couldn’t answer because I didn’t agree with any of the options. Like having to choose between “God chooses based on who would choose Him.” or “Every person is given an opportunity to choose God in their lifetime.” Umm…that describes the same theological position.

  45. brian says:

    I have an apology to MLD I took the test and next to Methodist I am seen as a Lutheran 74%. It seems actually fairly accurate to my belief system. I think the questions is a bit skewed.

  46. brian says:,0,5746598.story#axzz2iWpGnGSB

    This broke my heart, being one of the tormented at school, getting the crap beat out of you on a daily basis was well common.I admit I deserved every single thing that happened to me, I was a piece of Crap and God did the world a favor when He brought his wrath. Being the stupid A$$ I am I often actually prayed for those that beat my backside. God that is pathetic on my part and it is. Want to hear something even more pathetic and disgusting, my older brother caught a “bully” picking on me and came up and tried to take him out. Being the piece of reprobate crap I am I stood up for the bully against my brother for which I got a smack down rightfully so. God I make myself sick with this stuff. Why dont we just say we should kick everyone’s backside and take out the trash like a cheap dime store novel. We want real men that take out the trash with a vengeance and a holy anointing.

    Just an aside, there is no good news here, so please can we stop calling it that. Thanks.

  47. brian says:

    I could go on but you folks have heard it all before. I am sorry I do that. I just wish I could let it go.

  48. Over and over on the denominational test I found myself without a box to check … oh yeah… I am nondenominational. Ah yes, there was no box for making it up as you go.

    Tongue In Exposed Cheek Dread

  49. j2theperson says:

    I think the article about why men leave the church further supports the belief that women should be able to participate fully in every aspect of the church, including as pastors, bishops, deacons, and elders. The questions and desires laid out in that article are not unique to men and yet men, according to that article, leave the church when those questions aren’t answered and those needs aren’t met. Women on the other hand continue to go to church in greater numbers and with greater consistency than men–this in spite of the fact that, according to that article–those questions and desires aren’t being answered and fulfilled. I can only conclude that women take religion, spirituality, God, and christian fellowship much more seriously than men and are willing to pursue the enrichment and spiritual growth that comes from a steady church life even when that enrichment is not perfect.

  50. j2theperson says:

    The bullying that takes place in schools is just horrible, and it’s insane how little legal protection students in schools have. If I as an adult were pushed by another adult–even if it was slight–I could press charges if I wanted to. But students apparently have no legal protection or legal rights and there’s nothing they can do if they’re being physically bullied much less if they’re simply being harassed without any physical component.

  51. Gary says:

    The test was too simplistic even for this “Puritan” simp. Prudence and piety prevent me from an emotional outburst at this time.

  52. Solomon Rodriguez says:

    “I can only conclude that women take religion, spirituality, God, and christian fellowship much more seriously than men and are willing to pursue the enrichment and spiritual growth that comes from a steady church life even when that enrichment is not perfect.”

    Or maybe Men use more discerment and aren’t as easily fooed by False Teachers and don’t check their Brains in at the door

  53. j2theperson says:

    ***Or maybe Men use more discerment and aren’t as easily fooed by False Teachers and don’t check their Brains in at the door***

    That was not the premise of the article that was posted.

  54. j2theperson says:

    ***My old friend is getting nailed on local news today.***

    The article actually seemed quite evenhanded to me, presenting both sides of the story. If it appears he’s being “nailed” then maybe it’s because some of what he has done has so reasonable justification. For example: “Yet, Elevation Church has asked volunteers and employees alike to sign a confidentiality agreement, which threatens to sue if volunteers and members disclose church finances.”

    That’s a super sleazy and scammy thing to do. It reeks of ill intentions.

  55. Nonnie says:

    Matt Redmond’s article fits the Furtick story perfectly.

  56. Michael Sewell says:

    Thank you for sharing the “16 Christians in NYC” article.
    How thrilled I am to read of what god is doing in NYC. I want to publicly give thanks that He is changing the spiritual climate of that city.
    As I have mentioned here before, there was a time when I left my faith, and during that season I ended up in NYC as one of the bohemian “club kids.” It was about as dark as you can get, and NYC in the 80’s was the perfect place to hide from God.
    When the Lord rescued me from my pit, I had the zeal of the newly converted and tried to share my faith in this counter-culture community. Very few wanted to hear. It was almost impossible to find a Christian there, and almost every church was full of crazy people, or a cult ( i.e. Jesus was an alien from another planet). There were a few places where you could find real believers.
    I used to walk around the city for hours weeping and crying out to God to do a mighty work there and change hearts. I know many others did too. And the Lord has answered! I love Pastor Cymballa, Keller, and have even become aquatinted with Max Mc Clean who brought ” the Screwtape Letters,” to Off-Broadway and is making a real impact in the theatrical community.
    Having seen with my own eyes the difference, I can appreciate this as miraculous! YAY God.

  57. Michael says:


    I think you should write a regular article for us on the arts.
    That’s what I think… 🙂

  58. J2 – The newscast was very generous, I agree. I don’t want to condemn Steven until I’ve heard a few other things, but it certainly doesn’t look good.

  59. I’ll 2nd Michael’s 58 – Any discussion of faith and art would be great.

  60. Gary says:

    Michael Sewell,
    There are others in NYC who are reaching out with the gospel. They didn’t make the list but they are there.

  61. Michael Sewell says:

    Yes Gary, and I’m of the mind that the ones that never make the list are among the greatest:)

  62. covered says:

    Michael Sewell, is there a way to contact you, email?

  63. covered says:

    If you prefer Michael S, Michael N can give you my email…

  64. Michael Sewell says:

    Aol, I know, old-school.

  65. covered says:

    Got it thanks Michael

  66. I second what Michael N. thinks about Michael S. writing articles. 🙂

  67. Gary says:

    Shark Tank, especially Mr. Wonderful

  68. Ryan Ashton says:

    Just want to say I love you guys and miss you all. 🙂 I read all these comments and it was great. 🙂 Like coming home for Thanksgiving from college… or something.

  69. erunner says:

    On parenting…. something I am seeing a lot is the idea of a time out while excluding any spanking. Anyone else seeing this or maybe even doing it themselves??


    One thing is for sure, Driscoll lied.

  71. Nonnie says:

    Hey, Josh, look at what the pope did! I thought it was quite timely considering the news report of your friend Furtick.

  72. I saw that too, Nonnie. They ran another story last night on how Steven’s salary is set. I warned about these things many times…which is probably why I am working at an office and not at Elevation.

  73. Nonnie says:

    Don’t be weary in well doing, Josh……you know the rest. Blessings!

  74. Nonnie says:

    Erunner, what is surprising to me is that some parents won’t even use the word, “no.” I can understand not spanking, but being afraid to tell the child ‘No,” come on!

  75. erunner says:

    Nonnie, I have always believed there was room for spanking when done in a proper manner. I believe it’s outlawed now in parts of the world. I’ve always looked at Proverbs re this topic as a guide. Do you support the idea of not spanking children? Maybe I’m missing something.

  76. Nonnie says:

    I spanked my kids. I had the “wooden spoon” that I had to walk into the kitchen to get. I used it because I didn’t want to use my hands and I knew the spoon didn’t hurt as much. I still feel that used rightly and not in anger, it is fine. I didn’t have to use it very much. We hugged and it was over with. But I certainly understand parents who don’t want to “spank.” It’s not anything I would argue about with anyone.

  77. erunner says:

    I wonder if a lack of discipline (consequences) might tie into the sad affairs when it comes to young people today. Many kids never seem to have learned any type of boundaries and have zero respect for authority figures. I understand there’s a lot that contributes to this state of affairs but I have to wonder if the idea for some that spanking is some sort of abuse is back firing on us.

    When I spanked our kids I always went in afterwards to reassure them of my love for them and that was that. Seems we are in agreement. Thanks for responding.

  78. j2theperson says:

    Spanking does not equal discipline. I can discipline my child just fine without ever spanking her. In fact, viewing spanking as unacceptable forces me to be more involved and creative than if I thought I could solve problems by hitting her. I think it is harmful and will easily lead to abuse if you cannot think of discipline existing outside of spanking. Also, children can be spanked but never actually disciplined. Do you having any facts showing that the children you view as being undisciplined have not been spanked?

  79. erunner says:

    j2, I disagree. I believe spanking does equal discipline, is not harmful and does not easily lead to abuse. At the same time there will be instances where this is not true and discipline is applied poorly.

    Raising our three kids spanking was not the only form of discipline. It was reserved for specific instances and we used time outs, etc. in the other instances. Our kids were not traumatized from those spankings and are well adjusted adults.

    I brought this up because I’ve seen first hand the results of no spanking. I believe spanking is proper if carried out wisely. I am aware of the abuses you have brought up and those abuses are sad to see but do not nullify spanking as a form of discipline.

  80. Steve Wright says:

    When I was 7 or 8 my best friend who lived a few houses down the block (and really the only kid I played with) and I got into trouble. We went on our bikes to a friend’s house a couple miles away without telling anybody. He had different rules than we did as far as permieter.

    Anyway, our parents conversed before we got home and decided they would let us each decide our punishment. Either a spanking or a week’s grounding.

    I took the spanking. Figured it would be over in a few moments and a week’s grounding was like an eternity.

    So the next day as I went to my friend’s house to play, I discovered that he chose the week’s grounding option.

    Which effectively meant a week’s grounding for me too. 🙂

    We both learned the lesson and never did that again….

  81. Gary says:

    4 kids, each one different. Our oldest got spanked probably twice in his childhood. He did time out more though. Our second son was impervious to spankings and time out only worked when he had something he would rather be doing. Rewards worked with him but we had to vary the rewards. We spent a lot of time with him. Our third son was such a joy it was hard to spank him but he got ’em. He did a LOT of time out. Our daughter was so tenderhearted that just a hint of a spanking was enough to correct her. We would occasionally offer them a choice. Sometimes being grounded was the best thing. Once I took my son’s punishment for him. That really made an impression on all of them.

  82. Xenia says:

    Why men are *not* leaving the Orthodox Church:

    Besides, men get to sing like real men:

  83. basso non profundo says:

    Looks pagan to me. Even more pagan than a Catholic church. Very beautiful. But pagan.

  84. Xenia says:

    Is that you, Gary?

  85. basso non cognito says:

    Yes. I thought you’d know.

  86. Gary prefers the Walmart look to his churches.

  87. erunner says:

    Thanks for the video Xenia. I saw it as I was gathering music for the week and included it for the week. Beautiful!

  88. Gary says:

    Not the whole Walmart either, just the fun department.

  89. Gary says:

    It is beautiful. A lot more beautiful than the fun department at Walmart.

  90. Xenia says:

    Thanks, erunner!

  91. London says:


  92. fresco non profundo says:

    the Fundie-partment in case you missed it.

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