Things I Think
1. Bloggers and internet reporters now have the legal protections of journalists under the law. This is a great victory only if we all adopt true journalistic ethics to accompany our rights. Christian bloggers have an even higher standard to aspire to than the world. In an era where traditional media is driven by monied interests as much as substance we have the opportunity to stand and speak truth to power while others have allowed cash to silence them.
2. Your children will remember their childhood as well as you remember yours…
3. Martin Luther King Day used to spark controversy here and in other corners of the Christian internet. The more I think about the man and the day, the more I think it’s the perfect biblical memorial…it’s celebrates what God can do with a flawed and sinful person and the rest of us flawed and sinful people should relish that and remember it.
4. Last night, at the end of a classic playoff game won by the Seahawks, Seattle corner back Richard Sherman taunted his opponent, strutted around the field making the “choke” signal, then made classless comments about his greatness and his opponents lack of same when a microphone was available. Those of us who spoke of our disgust for this behavior were quickly rebuked by his fans….and you wonder why we our society is increasingly base and uncivil.
5. Being a celebrity not only covers a multitude of sins, your fans will provide you a license to commit them.
6. The move to legalize pot is simply a call to allow us to further self medicate. The real question should be “why are we in so much pain”?
7. Hell hath no fury like the fan of a celebrity scorned…
8. “Passion” is the new get out of jail free card. Sherman was just exhibiting “passion”. I guess that the other 105 players on the field were slackers…
9. If we had the same “passion” for our faith, for justice, for the the real problems and issues in our society that we have for football, we could change the world. We don’t.
10. We move ever closer to a society where there are no lines for right and wrong, just a fluid state of situational ethics based on status, not standards….and the church is sailing right along on the wave.
Free Download – Letter from Birmingham Jail by Martin Luther King Jr. via @christianaudio
#4 It took micro seconds for the criticism to be labeled as racist.
I’m old enough to remember when being a turd knew no racial, political, national, religious or socio-economic barriers. I know I’m supposed to say this, but ‘why were the old days better than these?’
I know I’m “NOT” supposed to say this…. (flops the punch line. phrrrrt.)
Well, I guess I fall in the category of the “rebukers” (re: the Richard Sherman debacle) although I thought it was just a discussion!
It’s really simple…either that was acceptable behavior or it wasn’t. If it wasn’t, it needs to be called out. If it was, we have far bigger issues in this culture.
My comments in Sherman’s defense are so filled with bias they can hardly be taken seriously…having grown up in the Puget Sound I’ve rooted for them through thick and thin. I was probably more excited than Sherman…and I hate the 9ers too.
also @ #1 – what is this ” journalistic ethics” of which you speak? I know ‘agenda journalism’, ‘yellow journalism’ and ‘co-opted fourth estate’ . . . I heard about factual reporting but I think that might be like a Bigfoot or something.
The bar is set quite low for ethics.
That might be because many of the criticisms were racist? maybe not yours but spend a little time on twitter, especially Richard Sherman’s twitter and you could see why they were “labeled” racist
#2 – My childhood was so much more carefree than that of my kids. Sometimes I wonder if we push too hard so they’ll be “successful” later in life…college, career, marriage, etc.
Rob, that’s why Michael wrote “true journalistic ethics.” The bar needs to be raised, unless we’re playing Limbo.
I think it’s important to teach our kids that entertainers of all stripes, including major league athletes, are not role models. I expect nothing of them except entertainment.
MLK was nothing but a hero. A giant among men. We are all flawed, but I don’t know if MLK was as flawed as we have been led to believe. Hoover’s goal was to destroy him, and Hoover was as crazy as they come, with enormous power.
In contrast to Ryan, I’m a fairly new arrival to the Northwest and up until this year was primarily a Bronco fan. My son loves the Packers, but embraced the Hawks this year. I actually thought the Niners would win, and would have been fine with that. I’m not a Seahawk diehard who is willing to excuse a player just because they play for my team. I didn’t even know Richard Sherman’s name until this season.
Re: passion. Not an excuse, just a reality. Passionate people step in it… a lot. Kinda like some guy named Peter. (The disciple so many Christians say they can “relate” to) Sherman truly stepped in it, but I think the reaction has been overblown.
Just my opinion. And certainly not the most important thing in the world to debate. There are certainly bigger fish to fry.
I’ve been a Vikings fan since 1963.
If one of our players exhibited such classless behavior, I would have not only written the same article I did, but with even more vitriol.
When our support of a “team” is more passionate than our desire for upholding standards of conduct we have a big problem culturally and socially.
I think we have a big problem…
#3 – I have to admit, every time I see a FB post giving homage to MLK, especially if the post is by a Christian, I tend to scroll past quickly, wondering why all the admiration and why so much is overlooked.
Reading your #3 makes me realize what an ass I am. Any aberrant theology or moral failures exhibited by King are flecks of dust compared to the sins I’ve either committed in the flesh or entertained in my mind. God forgive me.
The apostle Peter and some millionaire athlete strutting about giving the choke sign to his opponents are somehow comparable?
The world has gone mad…
“Passionate people step in it… a lot. Kinda like some guy named Peter.”
So true, Piney. I think when it comes to the things of God, I’ve been too afraid of stepping in it. “Lord, I believe. Forgive Thou my unbelief.”
CK @ 13…I’m an ass in recovery too. 🙂
Michael, more of a contrast than a comparison.
We should join Assaholics Anonymous!
In contrast, how pleasantly surprised I was to hear our freshman quarterback, after the biggest game of his young career, leading to the biggest upset in the bowl season, when asked how he handled the pressure all night – give glory to the Lord.
Not as some sort of “to-do” list (like, before I can start answering your questions let me give a shout-out to Jesus) – but as a legitimate answer to a legitimate question.
My guess is there might be more people bothered by that reply than Sherman’s.
I don’t get it. Why is homage to MLK inappropriate?
I mean, I get that football is more important than civil rights, but….
I heard Walter Brueggemann say once, “football is the violent liturgy of a militaristic society”.
A number of years ago we had some hellacious battles here over MLK…his moral and theological aberrations were deemed more important than what he stood for culturally.
We’ll make it a non profit and sign up who we think belongs… 🙂
I’m not condoning, nor excusing. I can’t imagine ever carrying on like RS did. Not in my nature nor my ethic. I’m just not so shocked by it all. I’ve been following sports my entire life and the supply of villians has been endless. It’s part of the package, a picture of the complexity of humanity. I’m grateful for the role models, but many of them have let me down as well…in some ways that hurt worse than anything. As for the villians, there are some who are worthy of excoriation: Ron Artest’s melee in Detroit comes to mind. True thuggery indeed. That situation in Miami this year with the bullying was terrible. I just can’t put the RS antics in the same category. And, hey, he just gave the Broncs some motivation. He has set himself up! If I had any advice for RS, it would come from Proverbs 27:2: “Let someone else praise you, and not your own mouth; an outsider, and not your own lips.” .
I think MLK’s Letter from Birmingham Jail is one of the best things ever written, especially in modern times.
I grew up watching Steve Largent…he was my hero, loved his game, and his humility. But I can appreciate Sherman too. Where he comes from, what he’s accomplished, his journey. I pray he meets Jesus, and he receives the grace that people are often so unwilling to give.
The problem is that we aren’t shocked by it and we are not only not shocked, we justify it.
The issue is whether we have standards for acceptable social discourse and how we react if those are broken.
When Peter’s “passion “got the better of him, the Lord…
a. rebuked him
b. excused him
c. ignored him
The correct answer is “a”…and it’s how we should be answering this matter.
And I pray that for Kaeperpick too 🙂
That Sherman thing wasn’t that bad. The outrage is just a product of the social media. He didn’t even use foul language. Ali was giving better interviews in the late 60’s. Really. Just not a big deal. A football player yelled in a microphone…stop the presses!
There’s an awful lot I could write about #1.
The problem with celebrities of any type is that they become Icons, that is, they project images into our culture. When inappropriate remarks or actions are left unchallenged or worse, when they are excused, there is a real chance that our culture can become conditioned into thinking that these things are acceptable. Attitudes become a mainstay that effects the way we perceive reality and is transferable into other arenas of life. Sherman’s immature outburst yesterday is not the type of lens I want people to view their world through. Part of the gospel is to call out the darkness rather than excusing it.
Very well said…exactly my concerns as well.
Did you guys really think Shermans rant was the worst pro-sports rant ever? What is it about facebook that makes people have to have something to be outraged about each day?
I was a bit surprised by Sherman’s ‘rant’ and his subsequent explanation still didn’t temper it…but my biggest disappointment was that he allowed an individual play overshadow all of the other plays and players in the game. Last time I checked, they were the Seahawks, not the Shermans.
I can envision the headline if they were the Shermans and had a bad performance in the super bowl “Shermans Tank in Biggest Battle.” 😉
I never said it was the worst pro sports rant ever.
I watched the game and watched what he did and wanted to gag…he was modeling “championship” behavior to millions of kids.
What exasperated me even more was when people justifiably commented on that behavior people fell over themselves to justify it.
That’s the issue…and that’s what is sick about the whole situation.
Disagree. I thought his rant was silly and over-the-top.
The sick part is that we think he ought to be modelling behavior for kids.
Free download of the audio version of “Letter From a Birmingham Jail”.
He is modeling behavior whether we like it or not…and I see the influence everyday.
That fact should bother you way more than his rant.
Well, maybe the next time Driscoll interviews some Seahawks he can include Sherman. They could then engage in some type of macho showdown. Great for ratings all around!
Funny you should mention that KEvin. Yesterday, Furtick interviewed Steve Smith during Elevations service.
I know people outside the south don’t know the Panthers, but Steve Smith is way crazier than Richard Sherman.
Thanks for your insights Michael. As a Seahawks fan, Sherman’s rant really put a damper on any joy from the win. It was embarrassing. And fans excusing such behavior is even more embarrassing. Ugh….
Thanks, JoelG and welcome to the comments section!
wow Josh, you are the one who sounds really angry here. The important thing here is to address these type of expression, that really, become cumulative ( to no fault of the individual) and reinforce people walking in darkness rather than light.
Having played sports, I understand there is a separate reality on a playing field, which due to the nature of competition, can become real unhealthy real quick. It becomes a matter of concern when the reality of the playing field is brought into the reality of our everyday lives. When it is not addressed for what it is, it becomes normative and an acceptable form (that is the image I spoke of in #34) of discourse and interaction in our world.
Me, angry? Not at all.
I must conclude that we simply disagree. I have not sought to justify RS antics. They are what they are. For some it’s deeply unnerving and reprehensible. I’m thinking he’s an extremely bright (Stanford grad) guy who obviously has maturity issues, and I hope he learns from his failures. His mercies are new every morning. (Perhaps the fact that I work in recovery ministry is slanting my view of all this) Grace, peace and Go Seahawks. Win it for #12.
Apparently, a Seahawk fan threw some popcorn at 49er linebacker Bowman as he was carted off the field yesterday. The following is a quote from Richard Sherman:
“One thing I can’t accept is what I read after the game about Seahawks fans throwing food at 49ers linebacker Navorro Bowman as he was being carted off the field with his knee injury,” Sherman wrote on MMQB.com. “If it’s true, it’s beyond terrible. That’s as low as it gets. I’m sure whoever did this is in a small minority of fans, because I don’t think that kind of action is an accurate representation of the character of the 12th man. Navorro Bowman is a great player who plays the game the right way. When he went down, I dropped to a knee and prayed for him. He deserves better than having food thrown at him as he’s carted off a field. All players deserve better than that.”
Richard, I don’t think your reactions after the game where a representation of your teammates. Physician, heal thyself.
I have hated the 40winers all my life! Growing up in LA, I was always a Ram fan, but RS actions after the game yesterday, which included more than his interview, was classless!
I didn’t see the game or the interview so not much to say on that end. However, I just want to put things in perspective. Folks, you must remember, football playoffs and the superbowl are just the at best the fillers of the ‘void’ – or the opening act for baseball Spring Training.
Dodgers’ pitchers and catchers report February 8th. 🙂
“All players deserve better than that.”
to fil’s teammate point up there at #38. Since all Sherman did was deflect the pass, I guess it was a good thing he was not trusted to cover Crabtree one-on-one and had a teammate in the immediate area to catch the deflection for the pick. 🙂
Otherwise, the Niners line up again with 2 timeouts and about a minute of clock to try and go that last 20 yards.
Yeah, it’s a team sport.
To MLD’s point, the beauty of baseball is it self-polices guys like Sherman. I do tire of the endless celebrations after fairly average plays in an NFL game.
I don’t believe in “collective responsibility” or “it takes a tribe…”
Parents need to raise their kids. We will never receive a higher calling or a greater responsibility. We are their role models.
Jim’s #57. Exactly.
hi everyone…hope you are having a good day
When I saw Sherman’s antics my mind just went to where he comes from. A whole different world than ours. And whoever brought up Ali, great example. My grandparents were soooo pissed at his diatribes. Now they’re classics, lol.
my mind just went to where he comes from
Hi Dusty, hope you are having a fine day too-just got back from a walk in unseasonably warm weather and saw 4 sandhill cranes enjoying the day in my neighbor’s yard.
Hi Catherine, I took a walk today as well…mine was 23′ . I think I was the only one out. lol
Seahawk Marshawn Lynch gets fined for not talking to the press, Richard Sherman gets in trouble for talking. I have the same take on it as Ryan Couch. At least Russell Wilson is a good guy
Michael said, “6. The move to legalize pot is simply a call to allow us to further self medicate. The real question should be “why are we in so much pain”?”
people already self medicate, i don’t think is will ‘further allow it’ i think the gov just wants a piece of the pie. legalize it….but keep the gov. hands out of the pot.
as to why we are in so much pain…..each of use has our own cause for their pain. mine is tormenting me night and day. in flashbacks and dreams. at the hands of someone who should have been a protector not a pedophile. my grandfather….
one of my meds is almost $1000, good think I have insurance…many do not and pot is their only option…
so i sooooo understand why people want to self medicate.
I was wondering why Seattle wasted their BEST guy on a mediocre receiver.
I don’t know any ex potheads who are against legalization. I think just about everyone who wants to smoke dope does it. Employer restrictions are much more effective deterrents than the law.
Stanford. Yeah, Steve.
…and how many years did you enjoy the Rush Limbaugh Show?
Erin Andrews, who conducted the interview, gets it right:
“You expect these guys to play like maniacs and animals for 60 minutes,” she said. “And then 90 seconds after he makes a career-defining, game-changing play, I’m gonna be mad because he’s not giving me a cliché answer, ‘That’s what Seahawks football is all about and that’s what we came to do and we practice for those situations.’ No you don’t. That was awesome. That was so awesome. And I loved it.”
Come on the majority of pot users will not be those who are in “pain,” it will be those who simple want to while away their free time in htc bliss.
To me the question really is why don’t they want to do something other than getting “high?”
So what exactly are you saying, Neo? I am saying he is a very intelligent man. Certainly intelligent and old enough to act better than he did last night.
In looking him up I see he was #2 in his High School class and not only went to Stanford but graduated, and in fact graduated EARLY and started grad work his final year of eligibility.
Don’t give me Rush Limabugh. Any Limbaugh nonsense might be better served on your plate. What does Compton and “a whole different world” (your words) have to do with justifying that behavior.
I won’t put words in your mouth. You tell us. What is it you are thinking of about this black man from Compton that excuses his behavior.
“Your mind just went to where he comes from”….those are your words. What do you mean?
OK, I give! Bottom line is you never saw this type of behavior 20 years ago. I guess athletes then didn’t have their heart in the game.
“To me the question really is why don’t they want to do something other than getting “high?”
I think everybody does most of what they do to get a “high”
Look at the Wall Street trader and even the football guy being talked about.
Dusty, glad for your insurance, that you have a plan to help towards healing. Praying for you dear sister.
@60. Interesting. It was highly offensive back then.
One could make the case that our culture has further slide down hill, as Bob @74 pointed out. It appears that there is little understanding of universals these days, particularly in the church. We are left with the conventions of the day.
Aside from all that, who cares what Erin Andrews thinks? Rush Limbaugh? Really? Such thin arguments……
Sherman’s parents were no less influential. His father, Kevin, rose daily at 4 a.m. to drive a garbage truck — and still does today. His mother, Beverly, works with disabled kids in the inner city and preached the value of education. She was happy to dole out a few dollars when her children — Branton and Richard have a younger sister, Kristyna — came home from school with A’s.
Sherman did just that, year after year after year. He took Advanced Placement classes, attended leadership seminars and was an extra-credit machine. If he finished his assignments before the bell rang, he’d help classmates finish theirs.
“It didn’t seem like Richard even lived in the inner city,” said Donerson, the Dominguez coach. “He read a lot. His vocabulary was totally different. He didn’t talk slang, and the other kids teased him about it.”
That’s where he came from. A strong family which valued work and education.
I don’t think you guys watch enough WWE wrestling. This kind of talk goes on all the time, probably at a higher volume. It’s entertainment… and don’t doubt or deny what the guy did last night was just that … pure entertainment.
So out of the millions who watched the game, how many have commented – 1%???
LOL – the story about what happened is the story … not the comment.
20 years ago was 1994. Look up sports from that era. There was definitely all kinds of trash talk and disrespect.
Oh my God! A football player in a violent sport gives a cocky interview after the game and people are losing their minds! There is a little thing called perspective. First of all, if hes not a Christian who are we to judge him and why would we be suprised at his braggadocius. I played football at a high level and I know the thin line betwen sportsmanship and savagery and unless you have buckled that chinstrap then u dont know. And dont we judge those inside the Church? This is really not a big deal at all, people place way too much importance on sports. Funny how people label Sherman as a thug but hockey players can beat the crap out of each other and be labeled tuff guys. Seems like America is still uncomfortable with angry black men.
You obviously weren’t watching the game closely, there woulda been around 29 seconds left after that ill fated interception that Sherman deflected.
I’m with Michael, MLD. The behavior in the NFL does not surprise me having watched it my whole life and seen this trend for many years now. It’s especially common among receivers and the defensive backs who cover them….but even lineman sometimes give little dances even when they stop a guy for “only” a 2-yard gain.
I’m just surprised at the justification today because of “passion” etc…(or the justification because he is from Compton)
Was McEnroe simply “passionate” all those years too? Or was he a rich, pampered jerk?
Anyway…enough for me. Since I don’t have a NFL team and could care less who wins I guess it does give me reason to root for Peyton to torch their secondary in two weeks.
You’re right, in the WWF!
I’m with you Steve!
” First of all, if hes not a Christian who are we to judge him and why would we be suprised at his braggadocius.”
So we should just turn a deaf ear to this and not attempt to speak into the darkness? Surely you don’t advocate that do you?
Nice play of the race card, BTW.
And…… I don’t think Sherman is angry, I think he is tactical. He looking to make a name for himself so that we he is done slugging it out on the field, he can put on a suit and tie and work in the commentator’s booth. And he will probably do well. But he is taking the low road to get there. What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his own soul?
You dont know anything about sports if u think this behavior didnt take place in the good ole days.
1986 Mets, they, got in three bench clearing brawls and also brawled with Houston police at Cooters night club. Oh yeah they also destroyed plane on ride home from Houston after clinching NLCS, coke and wife swapping took place.
1984 Bears against Raiders, cheap shot after cheap shot, Mcmahon got knocked out of game and pissed blood at half time.
No race card its facts
Hockey players are praised for their brawls but when blacks in other sports fight they are labeled thugs. Its Football!! Get over it! You act like he just shot the president
New York Yankees of the 70’s fighting amongst themselves
Buddy Ryan punching Kevin Gilbride-1993
92 eagles, wife fighting mistress of famous eagle db in stands.
90’s Cowboys buy “the white house” so players can have somewhere to sleep with their mistresses and hookers and do coke.
1989 picture day for New York Mets, Darryl Strawberry brawls with Keith Hernandez in front of media.
Late 80’s Minnesota Vikings, Keith Millard drunk crashes into fast food drive thru and leaves car there.
1985 playoffs, raiders vs. Patriots, after game Matt Millen clobbers patriots owners son with helmet
Thanks Michael (#49). Great blog. Great thoughts. Great comments.
Having watched a few Seahawks games, “showboating” isn’t limited to RS. As Christians none of us are condemning Sherman. Who of us wouldn’t take back a few choice words we’ve said in the heat of “passion”. The issue, to me, is why we, as a society, shouldn’t expect gracious behavior and sportsmanship from pro athletes, rather than excusing such behavior and not calling it what it is….rude.
Look at all the thuggery in 90’s hockey
Roger Clemens throws bat at Mike Piazza in 2000 world series, where was the policing on that Steve? Looks like your good ole boy baseball league has its own group of thugs. See in football you have to man up and battle the other guy for sixty minutes not be a douche bag picther and throw a baseball at a guy bbecause your girly little feelings got hurt because you gave up a home run. See the thing is football players are a little tougher than baseball players and arent as sensitive.
1989 or shortly after, David Cone of the mets is seen masturbating in the bullpen by a female fan, oh Americas past time, how American!
First the race card and then hyperbole. Take a breathe, and read. The issue is that comments like Sherman’s are a reflection of the soul of today’s culture. It is a condition that concerns me and I trust you share my concern. What drives someone to act so antagonistically? Why is it excused, minimized and those who are throwing the flag on this situation are those who are being brought into question? Is our culture that numb?….. or have we become that dumb?
1985 trial in Pittsburgh for MLB players who used cocaine, Keith Hernandez was one of them.
Not too mention all the baseball players who have been caught using PED’S, especially lying cowards like Ryan Braun, Roger Clemens, Mark Mcgwire, Rafael Plameiro and Alex Rodriguez, what a great sport of great men in baseball huh? Where was this policing?
Richard Sherman aint looking too bad now is he? Im much more concerned with lying cowards like Lance Armstrong and Ryan Braun than a Richard Sherman.
Oh the good ole days of sports!
Oh and all the racist crap leveled at Jackie Robinson by the good ole baseball league. Same goes for Curt Flood.
Track and field cheaters like Flo Jo, marion jones and Ben Johnson and you want me to be up in arms over Richard Sherman?
Solomon, that was horrible use of logic. Instead of raising the standard of Christ, you found and established the lowest common denominator. Two wrongs,or in your examples, many wrongs, do not make a right. If you break one law, you have broken them all.
Solomon, like pstrmike wrote, you are greatly missing the point.
Your examples are basically all off the field, in the locker room stories, and yeah, we can go all the way back to the beginning of sports for those. Professional athletes were arguably some of the most immoral people on earth – (especially in baseball) So you can save all your Babe Ruth debauchery stories too. 🙂
Now, as to baseball, what I said was it is self-policing. Not that they are ‘tougher’ than football players. Seriously man, follow a little more closely and add a touch of common sense. And, no, pitchers don’t throw at someone because they gave up a home run. Unless of course the guy showboats after hitting the home run, like just about every NFL player showboats after just about every good play.
But as to tough guy Sherman, I did crack up how just a little push away by Crabtree had Sherman spin around and beg the ref for a penalty flag.
Well, Solomon proved that bad behavior by pro-athletes goes back more than 20 yrs. Thanks Sol.
The difference is social media. Everyone has to see it, and everyone has to have their say on it. 20 years ago, Sherman’s rant would have gone unnoticed, because noone would have tweeted it, and re-tweeted it and blogged about it. Only the really bad stuff, like Solomon started listing,(Mike Tyson could have his own wing in the Hall of Shame) would get noticed back then.
pstrmike, my objection is not to take up for Richard Sherman. I just don’t care at all. A.) It wasn’t the worst thing I heard on TV that night, B,) I don’t know the guy. The shame to me is that Pastor’s and Christians across the country are worried about this guys behavior. Do you really think there isn’t plenty of darkness to speak to in your own hometown? In your own church? In your own life? Listen, when God starts cleaning up the culture, He isn’t going to start with the NFL. He is going to start with his own people. Me + you.
So we should be up in arms over the word “crappy”? Sorry guys but im done with secular culture wars.
You’re right Solomon, I forgot, you know everything. I was talking about mouthing off, not criminal behavior! But I’ll defer to your overwhelming knowledge base.
good questions, Josh. I have to run, so I’ll give you a quick answer and check in later. This (Sherman’s comments) came into my living room. That is about as “hometown” as it gets.
Do you want to engage or rant? Would you agree that there is something wrong with the soul of person who continues to act antagonistically?
Out for now, don’t shut each others mouths… 😉
Didnt Paul say what do we have to do with judging those outside the church? Id listen to him. Expecting worldly people to follow biblical principles is fool hearty at best.
You too Josh. 🙂
“This (Sherman’s comments) came into my living room. That is about as “hometown” as it gets”
That’s easy, brother. Cut off the TV! We have become so attached tot eh world, that we can’t imagine life without watching millionaires play a child’s game for millions of dollars. If Richard Sherman’s words are so troubling, all you gotta do is cut the TV off. It is a real option, too. And if you, me, and the rest of the people who don’t like that junk cut it off, it’d be fixed. Unfortunately, the enemy has us fooled into believing we can’t live without it.
I think Michael’s ‘Things I Think’ in relation to the incident are pretty golden. And not one of them is simply about the incident itself.
My only question is, given the Monday morning ‘Things’ deadline, how panicked for material was Michael before that game ended? Sherman bailed him out! 🙂
In the vein of Josh’s reasoning, tweet of the day goes to Matt Redmond.
“You don’t have to comment or blog on every cultural or spiritual event. Really, it’s true.”
Did Bob Sweat just take a cheap shot at me?
Finally, I like something Matt Redmond wrote 🙂
“The issue is that comments like Sherman’s are a reflection of the soul of today’s culture.”
Your hyperbole is as bad a SolRod’s. If this were indeed the “soul of today’s culture” – no one would have noticed it would be so normal..
Look, is this really anymore offensive than Tebowing was to non christians? Really, wasn’t Tebow just as much “in your face” and taunting as Sherman?
If the late Bill Walsh, Ronnie Lott, or even Mike Ditka were to have be the current Seattle defensive coordinator, last night’s stunt would have been Richard Sherman’s last, guaranteed. Its a shame that head coaches these days put up with a generation of prima donas of the Terrell Owens mold.
A little perspective for you sensitive types (we used to call you sissies). This just puts Sherman on a list.
Ditka said his piece here. http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=10321917
Go to 5:30 mark for about 90 seconds. I think the key thing was he spoke of the difference of what you do in the heat of the game, live, versus once the game is over.
Chris Carter knew about passion playing the game too. Here’s his take http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=10321866&s=espn At about the 7:00 mark for 60 seconds.
So that’s two hall of famers who basically call the guy a disrespectful punk…
Steve. You did not grow up in Compton. You are not black. You are not in the NFL. Hence, you are as disqualified as you can possibly be from evaluating his the player’s response in the moment of his career.
So, Neo…are you black, grew up in Compton and in the NFL?
Funny how we remember the past. I seem to remember Ditka winning the Super Bowl with a pretty idiotic quarterback. Why didn’t he sit him on the bench? Oh yeah, he wanted to win.
Chris Carter has a legendary mouth. So much so, that he hasn’t played in ten years, but he is still constantly talking.
Who will the ask next? Keyshawn “Give Me the D’ Ball” Johnson? Terrell Owens? Randy “walk off the field” Moss? Come on guys! There’s A NEW idiot to talk about. We can all pretend our idiotic stuff wasn’t as bad as his!
Looks to me like Sherman hasn’t partaken in the new legal mellow out business in Washington State.
Maybe it’s time to “chill” and get a few munchies! Or maybe that’s what football really is about, the non-athlete, munchies and about 150lbs of pure American light beer and chips! Now the two states where it’s legal can really chill out in less than two weeks with their teams.
Just think about our church experiences we can have. These new laws are perfect for those pastors who came from the hippie generation!
BTW I saw the Sherman rant on Fox, frankly I had no idea what he said. Did they do a post-game drug check? Sure looks like uppers.
PS. I think this thread needs to lighten a bit. It’s football.
Football becomes some big spiritual issue every year this time of year, because it is the Christian thing to do. CHRISTIANS have become the intollerant. The pious. The ones who impose the moral and ethical standards on anyone else without even a justifiable provocation. We beat the world because they are there, and we are apparently better.
This is where I jump ship.
Did anyone think in church if the Pastor was Sherman they would be shouting “Amen, Preach it Brother!!!”
[img] http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=bishop+leonard++of+colorado&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=bishop+leonard+of+colorado&sc=0-19&sp=-1&sk=#view=detail&id=69B08F6E6AC860FC2B634EFEB38E0C5B098EFD3D&selectedIndex=0 [/img]
We have the audacity to slander gays or any minority for similar behavior. But it’s ok, because we got Jesus.
Consider me a heathen.
Well, all this makes me glad sports is not an idol of mine.
I see too much craziness this time of year on FB.
Baseball fans are much more civilized.
I rest my case.
So Neo, got an answer?
Your rules sort of whittled the field down as to who can speak on this matter.
Does that apply to all fields of life and to whomever might say something?
Sort of high standards for public discourse there.
See Reuben, my statement didn’t preclude my own idols I have to deal with.
But, this time of year us non-football fans get to feel a bit superior because we see others idols on display.
We all get that feeling of superiority about some thing every once in a while.
You showed yours in #121 and #123. I showed mine in #124.
Sorry I couldn’t answer your question on your timetable, Derek. Particularly considering I hadn’t even interacted with you.
Since when did I evaluate said player’s antics? Correct. I didn’t.
You did not grow up in Compton. You are not black. You are not in the NFL.
I’m not as smart as Sherman either.
Definitely not as rich..or famous.
I didn’t get a full ride to Stanford..
And I sure don’t express pity over poor behavior just because a guy who has a great family and background grew up black in Compton. I’ll leave that for the ‘soft bigotry of low expectations’ crowd.
Neo, but you have set yourself up to judge who can.
So, I would expect you meet the qualifications you set out.
But, it doesn’t matter.
I can see that it was all to disqualify statements anyways.
I see this all the time in media, so why shouldn’t I expect it here?
Set up qualifications that only a few can meet and then say someone does not meet these qualifications.
Therefore, said someone has no say.
That is boring in the media and it is boring here also.
Football talk can only hold my attention for so long.
You gotta hand it to Neo – a man who is not going to let a politically correct culture keep him from saying that black men from Compton are a -holes.
Bravo Neo…. not
This is more astounding and offensive than any ranting and raving by anyone who has ever posted here deriding ChuckSr, The Calvary Chapel Movement, or CCV.
…only on Phoenix Preacher can a senior aged male white Lutheran christian leader (in his local church) make the astounding statement,
“…black men from Compton are a -holes”,
on the holiday commemorating DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. no less.
Would you please, in respect for the memory of Dr. King, moderate the 8:18pm comment?
One more for the road:
@105 Surely Paul didn’t expect us to ignore the world and the evil in it. And we don’t make excuse for them. Nor do we parade a multitude of sins just to prove that “he isn’t so bad”‘ but thanks for at least finally engaging.
Here is one for you to contemplate:
1Cr 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
@107 That rather simplistic. Two points. Shouldn’t I expect to watch an NFL game without being exposed to such garbage? BTW, that was the first game I’ve watched this season. AFter the Sherman interview, I turned it off. However, that interview also went into the living rooms of my neighbors and congregants , so yes, it came to my hometown.
@112 No it wasn’t hyperbole on my part. For a guy who claims such affinity for the Lutheran church, you sure don’t seem to know much about Luther, his contemporaries and those who influenced him. You may or may not know that Luther was in an Augustinian Monastery. You might try reading some Augustine to expose you to the condition of the soul.
@117 Disqualified? Please. How ridiculous. If that is the criterion for doing what we do then you should hang it up and sell insurance.
G…read the thread and follow along.
The only remotely racist comment was from Neo – who I asked to explain on the very off chance the remark was poorly expressed. Which offer was refused…so I think it is clear Neo meant was it sounded like was meant.
MLD is criticizing Neo and that remark.
Now you’re caught up…Let’s see if you admit your error, apologize to MLD and rebuke Neo instead….
When the 49ers got a first down with maybe 40 seconds left I said they were making a mistake by not calling time out to draw up some plays but instead they didn’t and I believe that was a crucial mistake that wasn’t brought up much at all. They ended up burning two timeouts at the end when it didn’t matter. THAT may have cost them the game.
Lots of talk about Welker cheapshotting Talib. Seems New England has done that quite a bit. I also said during one of the games I respect the receiver who gets up after taking a big hit more than the guy who delivered it. Surprised Belichick singled out Welker like that.
I hate seeing so many injuries in football/sports. So many great careers would have been so different if the player hadn’t been so injury prone or if a superstar somewhere along the line suffered a non contact achilles injury, etc.
I saw Sherman’s comments after the game and cracked up. Ever hear Lasorda’s unedited comments after Dave Kingman went deep on the Dodgers three times???!!
CAUTION!!!!! This link is filled with vulgarity that is very offensive and uses our Lord’s name in vain. Yet he’s beloved by all. Go figure. http://tommykingman.ytmnd.com/
Very early in our marriage my wife and I got into a huge fight over how our families cut watermelon!! One family would quarter it and the other would cut off slices. I think that could get some traction here!
Well, had a good day on a southern state’s gun forum commemorating MLK. 2 or three naysayers, who are hung up on Hoover’s accusations. Accolades from the rest of the gang.
Weird to see that the focus here is still on someone who was stupid in public.
I owe no apology for calling out MLD’s tasteless and racially tone-deaf comment.
You are as tone-deaf as MLD if you tolerate his comment on this day that we honor Dr. King.
“I owe no apology for calling out MLD’s tasteless and racially tone-deaf comment.”
If you don’t admit you are wrong, then you are guilty of supporting Neo’s comment about black people, from Compton being A-Holes.
It was his comment I was criticizing, but you are too lazy to read.
Erunner – who had more fun with Lasorda than Jim Healy? I think he played Lasorda everynight for years. This is good – several clips of Lasorda and Sparky Anderson along with others 🙂
I had a long negative diatribe I am glad for the blogger thing I hope that settles the entire thing for some bloggers here who seek truth. The guy who mocked the opponents that is just sad, having seen sports in many venues there is a great deal of humility in many of these events. Pot can help people with cancer and other pain issues. Pain is a constant theme in my life, I just finally got my left arm to work after about a month. It scared the heck out of me, mainly because it may mean I would have to cross a line that scares the living hell out of me. Needing, I think I would rather die quickly and out of debt, being out of debt is far more important. With all honesty that sums up my understanding of some aspects of the Christian religion. Of course I am sure I am wrong and my view is twisted.
King was a real sinner I think that is why he was so effective, funny how that works. From my on the street observations I see people of faith seek justice on a daily basis, yes I still help the local church even if I think most of their theology is well nonsense. No I dont preach that I just help and shut up and I love doing that because doing good is far more important than me ranting on about my “issues”.
I got booted from a ministry I basically poured my life into, I came to this blog, dumped my guts out a few times. What I learned first, those that booted me actually did care about me, I was wrapped so tight I needed a place to release. Eventually I came to understand that they wanted to break the cycle I was in. Sometimes we get wrapped up in the day to day and miss the big picture. I know I did. I understood my memory was twisted and most likely wrong. Most of our memories are wrong if I understand that.
You know I tried to give up Jesus I really did, but I could not, too this day He will not let me go, even when I beg Him. I guess that is what grace is. Truth be told I have and am wrong on much of what I say.
You are in my prayers. I pray that you have caring friends/family close by to care for you. It is a heart-wrenching road to walk.
Amen to Lori’s comment. Dusty you are loved!
Hey, I think Reuben agreed with me!
It’s been a while 🙂
“Did Bob Sweat just take a cheap shot at me?”
Me? Cheap shot? Never 😉
It was his comment I was criticizing, but you are too lazy to read.
G has a hard time admitting any of his criticisms might be misplaced when the facts are known…..especially when it was due to just jumping in to take a shot at MLD or one of the other ‘usual suspects’ – rather than take the time to know what he’s talking about.
That said..today is now a Sherman-free zone for me.
Things are not what they were meant to be. East of Eden, we have kept moving east and come all the way ’round, finding the garden utterly lost and cruelly unrecognizable. We were all born into this world. We came in gasping for air, and we are gasping still. It’s a tough place to make a living, a hard place to make a life. Fire and ice. Beauty and terror. Pain and healing. Intertwined.
The good news is that Life wins out. Life has already won out. Love has won out. But the battlefield remains where we find ourselves, and the setting of the battle is a world that fiercely hates women. God loves women. Jesus loves women. The Enemy, the Devil, has women in his crosshairs.
Not a cheery thought but one necessary to face. Your life’s journey runs through unfriendly terrain. You knew this already. The smoke from the heavenly engagement going on all around us affects our watery eyes and our labored breathing like smog. With mortars flying, aimed at our heart, we need to name it. So much of the sorrow in our lives finds its roots in misogyny.
This is from my good friends at Ransomed Heart Ministries who I have not yet met.
Coach Carroll talks with Sherman. Sherman apologizes. The world slowly returns to order. And he’ll likely mess up sometime in the future.
Coach Peter Carroll: “When you really love somebody and care for them, you do everything you can help them be everything they can be,” Carroll said on the radio. “At times they are going to make mistakes and break your heart, but if you love them, you stay with them. You give [them] the best chance to be all they can be. Richard is a wonderful spirit. He’s got an amazing heart, and he has great sensitivity. He goes all the way to the end of the spectrum when it comes to expressing himself.”
Yep, I’m increasingly having better things to do than to read the inane comments which result in a mature man who is a pillar in his church posting a comment about the character of black men from Compton on MLK day. If any other participant, Neo included, posted such an inflammatory statement please consider yourself included in my calling out. No white person could or should ever think he or she could use pejoratives regardless of the context.
in your #135 you posted the exact same words I used to call out Neo
DIRECTLY from you #135 YOU G – ( |o )====::: wrote these very works with your own keyboard to call me out – “…black men from Compton are a -holes”,
Why was it acceptable for you to write such a bigoted statement to call me out – but I get accused by you for using them to call out Neo.
Have you lost your mind?
G, dear G. You have completely missed it. I don’t know if you are being willful or really don’t get it but believe me, you have missed it.
MLD was making an anti-racist response to Neo’s subtle (it seems to me, anyway) racist comments.
It seemed to me that this is basically what Neo was saying and he may correct me if I’m wrong. He *seemed* to be saying that no matter how wonderful your parents and childhood, no matter how well you did in school, no matter that you are a Stanford graduate, that ol’ Compton thug culture will win out every time. <—- That seems to me what you were saying and I *will* call that racist. MLD was calling Neo out on this. G missed the point of the entire exchange.
All along, my point in the RS affair was not that I justified his actions, but I felt the reaction to his antics was overboard. To me, the judgment and vilification didn’t match the crime. Then I look back over this comment thread and I see more of the same: overreaction, which in turn, diminishes dialogue. If we really want to honor MLK, we should take a chill pill and try to talk with someone, not at them. Give and take, mixed in with a measure of respect and humor, goes a long way. That’s the PP I love.
Piney, I agree with you – I said in one of my earlier comments that the reaction to the comments wee the story … not the comments.
We are blessed to have Xenia here, her #159 was exactly how I read it.
I guess the smoke hasn’t cleared yet, but it’s getting close.
“MLD was calling Neo out on this. G missed the point of the entire exchange.”
Personally I got that from the start, but I think this G-man guy is actually as hard about his positions as the strongest Lutheran is. Actually I have seen MLD apologize in the past, except with RB. 😉
They days are counting down for the Super Bowl (and Cheetohs).
Isn’t there a scripture somewhere describing how people will be at the Super Bowl when Jesus returns? If not there should be.
PS. Thank you Xenia!
And exactly how I read it…especially when my request for a clarification was met with rebuke.
I took at look at this thread yesterday and decided not to comment. Not that I agreed with RS post game antics, they were of course not the kind of behavior we want to have held up as a good example.
Can you imagine some accountant stand up after a completing a successful financial review and state, “I am the BEST Accountant in the industry! NO one can touch my skills!”
Or a police officer doing something similar after a sucessful bust of a big criminal – “I am the BEST cop on the force! No one can touch my record of nabbing crooks!.
All this is somewhat offensive and go against our sense of teamwork and boasting like this never comes across right.
But yeah – the guy was caught up in the momment. Lets have a little bit of grace as we allow him express himself. Or a lot of grace.
Stick a microphone in my face after a difficult project gets implemented successfully and my first reaction would be to take the credit. Are we saying that we would be any different?
Would our reaction be any different if we were Seahawks fans, or if OUR TEAM was to be the winner?
I do appreciate the comments by Reuben, Xenia and others who have brought a modicum of balance to the discussion.
Sorry for the length. Dun now. 🙂
Or are we also looking in the direction
If you haven’t yet, you need to listen to erunners #139 – and this was back around 1978 and Lasorda used words Sherman never came close to.
But for you who are sensitive, listen to my 145 and it will bleep out the sordid language … and give other examples of public rants 1970’s style.
“Actually I have seen MLD apologize in the past, except with RB”
We have made up a couple of times – usually by email. i think RB and i are OK right now … he currently let’s me post on his blog.
But you know how guys apologize – we slug each other in the arm and say “all’s good.”
I laughed all the way through the LaSorda interview. Profanity doesn’t bother me. Making threats to shut someone’s mouth for them bothers me. That is the line IMO, that was crossed. At least Pete Carroll understood and dealt with it.
What is unbelievable to me were those who are the thought police and felt they needed to contextualize this as acceptable in the attempt to oppose a valid criticism.
and pineapple…………… I’ve done drug and alcohol ministry too.
“What is unbelievable to me were those who are the thought police and felt they needed to contextualize this as acceptable in the attempt to oppose a valid criticism.”
Is there someone on this blog who did that?
Josh just stole my post!
Sherman and I slugged each other in the arm this morning. All is good!
He promised he wouldn’t call Payton a mediocre quarterback. 🙂
After telling my wife this morning that I am the greatest husband in the world, I have a greater understanding of Richard.
Also, I believe that I live in the greatest city in the US, and I’m so thankful that I don’t live in a mediocre city like BuenO Park.
After listening to Lasorda’s rant, I guess my 20 years was off a bit. I’ll apologize to Josh, but not Solomon who threw out all the criminal stuff.
I noticed Papias mentioned Reuben and Xenia earlier about bringing balanced.
NEVER leave me out of a balance shout out! I am the greatest balanced poster on this blog!
Right on Josh, I hear ya!
Thought police??? pstrmike, I thought you made a great attempt at that by cloaking your statements in the the Augustinian view of the “soul” of the culture.
That was really an Eddie Murphy LOL joke you made. Do the Augustinians REALLY believe that a culture actually has a soul? or back to my original comment, that was hyperbole on your part to shut down others.
You should get out more.
I remember those Jim Healy radio shows with the constant playing of Lasorda being bleeped out. I found that more offensive than the Sherman stuff because so many of Lasorda’s comments were not in the heat of the moment, but instead calculated. He liked his profanity He knew exactly what he was doing and chose to be a foul-mouthed guy anyway. Still, a Dodger fan though. 🙂
I’d kind of like pstrmike to explain that statement about the thought police, but another part of me says no, fearing that it will only lead this discussion down another trail of hyperbole, accusations and over-reactions. Maybe best to let this very non-PP styled thread die a lonely death. 🙂
I AM THE GREATEST POSTER ON THIS BLOG!!! (who uses a Phillie Phanatic gravatar) 🙂
“mld You should get out more.”
OK, I’m out – now what?
“OK, I’m out – now what?”
Now what?!? Now agree with pstrmike, that’s what!
So you don’t feel left out of the Tommy Lasorda talk – watch him here with the Phille Phanatic
How could Don Drysdale laugh at that??? 😉 Good thing they didn’t have Tommy miked up. Ah, sport. Villains, heroes, demons and saints abound. All played out on a piece of grass or a chunk of court. Gives Shakespeare a run for his money.
I call you both out.
Its 2014 and there’s just no place for such racial banter.
Yet G, you repeated the phrase yourself in #135 and completely misrepresented MLD’s motives.
So I assume, everyone here who is offended by MLD’s remarks never watches TV programs or goes to movies that uses racially derogatory language? If you’re at a move and a character makes a loaded remark concerning race you stand up and shout “This is the year 2014, such thing must never be said!!?” Is that what you do?
Xenia – let it go. G’s pride is standing in his way.
It’s 2014, I don’t want to mess with his psyche.
I would rather mess with everyone via Tommy Lasorda who knows that in the original Hebrew YHWH translates to The Great Dodger in the Sky. 🙂
When I engage entertainment I make choices, I change the channels, I choose my films very carefully, choose my authors, singers & songwriters, my comics & performers.
When I came and visited my family, I hoped for better.
Xenia. You completely misunderstood what I said. You missed it, my dear.
If one hasn’t grown up in the NFL subculture, nor that of Compton, where roots go further than corporate America can us usually reach, then we don’t have anything to do with those post game antics but be entertained and/or mind our own business.
You really missed it, Xenia. 🙂
“OK, I’m out – now what?”
I guess this means you’re out of ” the closet !”
It’s amazing what these blogs bring to light.
Great! MLD is gay. Congrats, old friend!
( |o )====:::
Dude you’re not always right.
And if your family can’t tell you who can?
try to tell yourself that any part of that racist statement should stand
“try to tell yourself that any part of that racist statement should stand”
You mean the very statement you typed in you #135?
Neo, and all, I’ve been asked to drop it so I will.
I now take leave of this Phil Robertson / Paula Deen environment.
Look what Richard Sherman has wrought. 🙂
Expecting a class to pop up at a community college soon: “Richard Sherman and the Fall of Western Civilization”
G, you’re going to have to explain you angst more clearly, because I can’t follow your train of thought at all. It all seems a bit drive-by rather than true conversational engagement. Are you saying that in your view, even though MLD was denouncing it, he shouldn;t have even used the phrase? Like how some say the n-word should never be uttered?
Pine, no worries.
My angst is from being raised in a racist household where the word “nigger” flowed as freely as the name “Jesus Christ”.
As a parting exercise I’ve shifted gears, found a great article to pass along, hope you like it.
MLK was a person, which means he had a range of emotions, just like the rest of us. But, as we’ve mentioned before, the highest functioning people exercise what psychologists call emotional agility, where you notice an emotion like anger when it arises and then choose a response–rather than suppressing it or getting overwhelmed.
From his autobiography, we can see that Dr. King developed emotional agility from a young age. Like in this anecdote from 1943:
“When I was 14, I traveled from Atlanta to Dublin, Georgia with a dear teacher of mine, Mrs. Bradley (to) participate in an oratorical contest. We were on a bus returning to Atlanta. Along the way, some white passengers boarded the bus, and the white driver ordered us to get up and give the whites our seats. We didn’t move quickly enough to suit him, so he began cursing us. I intended to stay right in that seat, but Mrs. Bradley urged me up, saying we had to obey the law. We stood up in the aisle for 90 miles to Atlanta. That night will never leave my memory. It was the angriest I have ever been in my life.”
As Columbia Business School professor Hitendra Wadhwa observes, King had to tame his anger in order to become a “messenger of peaceful struggle.” King worked hard to maintain his nonviolence and admonished himself when he didn’t. A telling example comes from the negotiations to close the Montgomery Bus Boycotts in late 1955. He saw that the talks were headed toward a stalemate, as whites weren’t giving up their segregation privileges.
“I’m interested in changing the kind of system that produces this kind of man”
Coming home with a “heavy heart” and a “terrible sense of guilt,” King recalled his own angry, indignant moments in his autobiography. He continued:
“I had spoken hastily and resentfully. Yet I knew that this was no way to solve a problem. ‘You must not harbor anger,’ I admonished myself. ‘You must be willing to suffer the anger of the opponent, and yet not return anger. You must not become bitter. No matter how emotional your opponents are, you must be calm.'”
The Mediocre Bob @ 194 is not this Mediocre Bob
G, “I now take leave of this Phil Robertson / Paula Deen environment.”
That comment seems very harsh if you’re alluding to some sort of insensitivity or racism towards African Americans that exists here.
This is another topic where there is no consensus as people (black and white) see the Sherman episode differently.
For me it’s just one more thing I’ve seen/heard in over 45 years of following sports. I left the Lasorda clip as an example of how people we place on pedestals don’t deserve to be there at all.
Russell Wilson will be starting in the Super Bowl and no one is batting an eye. African Americans have made great strides against much resistance in football and I’m color blind as those changes have been so pronounced. Things aren’t perfect as racism will always exist.
And I will find it amusing if Manning lights up Seattle in the Super Bowl in light of Sherman’s remarks. See you around.
Well, wasn’t that an intelligent comment. Sherman is a reflection and expression of what our culture has become. It was comments and articles that I have read (not just here) looking to excuse or defend or contextualize that gives me greater concern. Perhaps you should read Schaeffer if you really want to go down “the decline of Western Civilization” road.
Francis, not Franky!
pstrmike didn’t take his humor pill this morning. 😉
George Will made a great point about the progress of race in sports. When Frank Robinson was hired as a baseball manager, people cheered that finally some equality had been reached, Will noted, the truth is we will know we are more equal when a person of color can be fired just like everyone else. Robinson went on to be hired and fired by several teams.
One thing I can say in complete sincerity: I didn’t think once about the color of anyone’s skin while watching the Seahawks-49ers game. Now that’s a thing of beauty!
I have noticed this amongst progressive Christians.
It is alright to hang out with the sinners and tax collectors, as long as they aren’t what the progressive calls “racist” or “homophobic”.
Those sinners to them are the untouchables that must be left alone.
Worst part is that, it is usually an unfair standard that they create and make sure to marginalize these people while screaming about the marginalization of others.
I thought the ideal of mld finally coming out of the closet was funny….. 😉
“You are called to be a blessing to the nations so you can either be about perpetuating Egypt in the lives suffering around you or be part of redeeming them back to Eden.”
Rabbi Ed Feinstein 1/19/2014
The only way Rabbi Ed can redeem anyone back to Eden is to tell them the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Actually, no, the way we are called to be blessings is to help end suffering, racism being a big one. Inequality and ignorance are two huge things which move a person from poverty and disadvantage to opportunity and the ability to contribute with meaning to their own lives and the lives of others.
Rabbi Feinstein was speaking of our shared calling
Looking forward to our return to Eden very much.
I don’t know about good Rabbi Ed here – he does not think too highly of God
1.) calls him a literary character
2.) he is not perfect
3.) he is not almighty
4.) he does not know everything
5.) in fact, he is not much more than a parent with teenagers
And this is just in the first 1 min 10 sec of his talk.
By the way, my #200 comment was a joke! A little bit of hyperbole and,satire to make a point. Sheesh, tough crowd, 🙂
…and yet Ed knows how to treat his brothers and sisters who are black, whose parents were the children of slaves, because he takes the Exodus and everything else seriously enough to let it change him and expand his heart of compassion.
Good for Ed, and may we learn from how he lives while we wrestle with what he believes
Except that he thinks it’s a fairy tale – the Exodus … another literary device.
#9 Like this guy: http://www.bloodbrotherfilm.com/ Watched it last night. Best. Documentary. Ever.
…and if he treats others well then his beliefs may well catch up with his bearing the image of God
Why would I wrestle with what Ed believes?
Unfortunately, he is in “unbelief”.
I don’t need to wrestle with that.
It is actually sort of sad to think about.
we all hear things which cause us to wrestle with what we heard, yet to be in awe and wonder at how someone else can bear the image of God in more passion and completeness than we do, loving others, serving others, bearing their burdens, seeking to enrich them because of a heart of compassion.
It is sad. I’m sorry you can’t see that.
I was just going to say what Derek said. I don’t need to wrestle with this Rabbi’s beliefs, I reject them outright. I am not worried about his beliefs or fretting over them or wondering if I should change my Christian beliefs for his Jewish beliefs. He does not know Jesus, he is lost. He’s not some Amazonian Indian who never heard of Jesus whose salvation we can legitimately wonder about, he’s an educated American who knows about the Messiah and has chosen to reject Him.
He may be a nice man, helping folks and all, but we do not believe in salvation by works, do we?
it is sad that you require complete agreement with your beliefs before you can consider the life of a man which demonstrates the very image of God in how he serves, teaches and lives
You are right – Rabbi Ed may be a fine person … in fact i am sure that he is. However, he is blind to all things spiritual and he is leading his congregation further into darkness because they think that the cosmos just wants them to treat each other well.
Rabbi Ed is not confused – to the contrary he is steeped in scholarship and has chosen to deny God as anything other than a literary character … probably no different that Peter Pan.
I rest my case, it is sad that you require complete agreement with your beliefs before you can consider the life of a man which demonstrates the very image of God in how he serves, teaches and lives
Complete agreement of beliefs?? How about none – the man denies God as real and teaches his congregation this very thing. You can’t deny it, like I showed, one minute into his presentation he denied everything I believe about God
his goodness and perfection.
Come on, the good Rabbi needs to give something.
Well, like I said. I am sorry you don’t see it the way I do.
His way is good works, but in the end we all know what that achieves.
The Pharisees did a lot of demonstrating, loudly and in public.
Didn’t help them.
My way is the Way.
Because, He said He was.
OK, the Rabbi is pretty funny, he chastises Jews for not enjoying God’s creation enough. he gets them for eating yogurt instead of Ben & Jerry’s. 2 of God’s prophets
Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ben and Jerry. Pretty good – I too think people who eat yogurt instead of Ice Cream are a bit off.
But then at 6 mins, he starts talking about God’s mistakes. Eh, might take the edge off the ice cream.
This comment thread may make my head asplode. (Something the Internet Monk used to say a lot) 🙂
Oh, great MLD now you’ve opened the door to a whole ‘nuther topic of despair, angst and hand-wringing: yogurt vs. ice cream. Thanks. 😉
It’s one thing for us all to have opinions…
it’s another thing for a guy to go through life…well, (I’ll avoid the usual crude way it is expressed) as if his bathroom doesn’t need air freshener.
Actually, I’ll bet the rabbi is a fun guy – without being racist a Jew from Encino has got to be a Dodgers’ fan. 🙂
Piney, no angst, or hand wringing. If you have a bowl of yogurt and a bowl of ice cream in front of you, and you choose the yogurt, do you really expect to go to heaven? I don’t think so.
I renounce the devil and all his yogurts, Greek or otherwise!
No! All Greeks are saved!
I think Richard Sherman likes yogurt. Ice cream is mediocre.
What is the difference between regular yogurt and greek yogurt anyways?
Greek yogurt is regular yogurt that has been strained so it’s thicker and yummier.
I like ’em both!
God doesn’t make mistakes?
If God ever expressed regret about something, would that then mean that God made a mistake and realized it?
I recall a literary device called The Flood story, with a statement that “God repented” of having made man, so much so that He decided to destroy all living things which breathed air because of the violence and wickedness of man.
…every innocent thing suffered a drowning death because of the wickedness and violence of man run amok, and God’s decision to wipe out every man, woman and child, including the nursing newborns, the babies which were too young to crawl, and the little toddlers…
…all wiped out due to man’s wickedness which provoked God to admit out loud that He regretted ever making humankind.
So, he decides to toss the whole batch like bad brownies which were messed up because the recipe called for a cup of sugar and someone got distracted and used a cup of salt.
Who got distracted? But, I digress.
So God essentially flushes the whole batch of humanity with the exception of the family of Noah.
But then, after all is said and done, Noah plants a vineyard and gets sloshed.
God doesn’t make mistakes?<<<<
God has never made a mistake.
Any mistakes would be on our part, in the form of mistaken understanding.
Then what does it mean that “God repented”?
verb: repent; 3rd person present: repents; past tense: repented; past participle: repented; gerund or present participle: repenting
feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one’s wrongdoing or sin.
“the priest urged his listeners to repent”
synonyms: feel remorse, regret, be sorry, rue, reproach oneself, be ashamed, feel contrite; More
view or think of (an action or omission) with deep regret or remorse.
“Marian came to repent her hasty judgment”
feel regret or penitence about.
“I repent me of all I did”
Middle English: from Old French repentir, from re- (expressing intensive force) + pentir (based on Latin paenitere ‘cause to repent’).
G, do you think God sinned? That He had sin to repent of? As the 2nd Person of the Trinity, do you think Christ sinned? Did not live a sinless life? And what of the Holy Spirit? Do you think He is also sinful?
The writers of the Holy Scriptures used anthropomorphic language so that we could understand His actions to the best of our limited abilities. I do not think you will accept this answer, but it is the truth.
I am not going to bat these things back and forth as we all used to do with another person. You already know the answers and you have rejected them.
I gotta love you and the rabbi. You have the Flood as a literary device to explain some that was done by another literary devise (god)
So what was the mistake God made that led up to the flood story?
Who messed up the recipe for humans?
At least the rabbi is man enough to say that he does not believe god is real – how about you? Can you man up?
“Who messed up the recipe for humans?”
That one is easy – Satan
What does the story what does the story say was the mistake?
It doesn’t say there was a mistake – it says people chose to be wicked.
It was God’s recipe, and the man and woman were fully baked, Satan didn’t participate in creation of man & woman. They were declared “good” by The Creator.
But left to their own devices they suffer consequences that the children of any other parent would never invent
Then why does God repent of making humans? That’s what the story says?
And, as a man who is pro life, how does God justify murdering every innocent nursing baby?
You sin … are you a mistake of God? If we are mistakes of God why should we act like the Rabbi instead of like the football guy?
See what the bad teaching of this rabbi has led you too – denying god, and calling god’s creation a mistake.
G. this is America and you and the good rabbi can believe whatever you want – just don’t try to blame it on god – just leave him as a literary figure.
Rather than apologize for that bad old God who killed all those babies I am going to say that the God of the Old Testament is The God Who Is, and He is capable of some serious wrath, and even if we, in our human puniness suppose that we would have done things better, the choice was not given to us. He is God and it behooves us to get right with Him.
We, in our 21st century liberalness image that God is just like us. He is not.
What did God repent of?
The story says God repented of creating humans.
Then, according to the story, God wiped out innocent life.
I am tired of constantly apologizing for the God of the Old Testament. I am not a Marcionite.
I have a child.
The child grows up and does bad stuff.
I as a parent can repent/regret of ever having had the child in the first place in a sense of it brings me remorse because of their actions.
I do not repent/regret of having them in another sense because they are my child and I love them.
If we, as humans have these kind of emotions, how greater the God who is above us, who knows the end from the beginning.
I, as a human, don’t know the outcome of my child’s life.
God knows the outcome of all of history.
If I had a plan that was going to bring untold pain and suffering on people, and not all would be saved
I would regret it also.
If I just had no plan and none would be saved, I would regret that more.
Dr. Henry Morris wrote an interesting commentary on God repenting. Morris believes that God “changes His mind” about man when man’s attitude changes toward Him. It seems to me that God being the Creator or the Potter has a right do what He wants with His creation or the clay as it were. According to Morris, God’s “repenting” is a different thing than us repenting.
As far as I’m concerned, I’m glad that like Noah, we are justified in the Eyes of The Creator.
Grace is an amazing thing.
The simple fact that G pastes an English dictionary breakdown of an English word and harps ad naseum on that..
rather than interact with the volumes of available material concerning the Hebrew word and its wide range of meanings, how the verb stem can affect those meanings, how translators of the LXX over 2000 years ago understood the Hebrew word…and so on and so forth…
Well, it shows he just is not serious about finding out what God actually reveals about Himself in the pages of the Bible. Of course, when has he ever suggested that Genesis is God’s inspired, authoritative word anyway.
This is his dividing marker, a personal shibboleth. An argument used for years to suggest Open Theism and a range of teachings that always decrease the majesty of God while making Him more and more like one of us humans.
I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop where he says “It is sad that you take the Bible seriously enough to care what is actually written therein and will not consider my simplistic musings pulled out of my rear end”
Like Xenia said, ‘You already know the answers. You choose to reject them.” Fine – as long as innocent readers don’t follow the nonsense and know there is certainly plenty to ponder beyond parroting “It says repent. It says repent. Why does it say repent.”
Well, all I know is that I can have regrets about things that I did, that I would not do differently even though I regret them.
Sometimes, things are necessary even if they cause remorse.
1 Samuel 15 is another good study on this, look at vs. 11 and 29.
263 is the most out of it interpretation of Genesis I have ever read. Even the most poetic types would never get that from either the Hebrew or the Greek translations. Very un scholarly.
In any interpretation or simple reading only one man was innocent, Noah, of violence and crime. He walked with God!
Surprisingly only one man in this age was/is innocent and He rose from the dead. Some say He was/is God!
thanks, all, have a nice ________
Good night G, – may the literary devise bless you.
Eternity? Why yes, I plan to!
Totally irrelevant article to the conversation. In all of those statements Jesus is saying that the most important thing is to love him – he concludes with “When you love me in deep and meaningful and authentic ways — nothing else really matters. — nothing else really matters.”
Note the qualifier – “When you love me in deep and meaningful and authentic ways — nothing else really matters.”
Your rabbi friend may be doing the “loving people” part but is not qualified because in his case he does not love Jesus and more disturbing even denies his existence which I am sure leads him to teach against Jesus to his congregation which takes us full circle to where he does not love people but actually hates them and is leading them down the road to destruction.
But the good rabbi is ignorant of the things of Jesus and does not know what he is doing – can we say the same of you?
Fallacy: If you are serious about your theology, you won’t be as much a loving and caring as a person.
I get it, there are people who allow theology to make them smaller people.
But it doesn’t have to be that way. One of my favorite books is called “When Life and Beliefs Collide” by Carolyn Custis James. A great challenge that our understanding of truth ought to directly correspond in our actions.
I’m for great theologians who make great applications.
This is typical Sojourners stuff to say “beyond the realm of churches, religious blogs, and bible colleges, nobody really cares about theology”
Eh! there could be an error there – I am sure that the Christians in Islamic countries in the Middle East and Asia think much of theology … enough to risk their life – especially “who is Jesus.”
Every call to the lost to repent and believe on the Lord is an act of love.
Every assurance to the lost to remain in the belief system that will end in damnation at the command of Jesus one day is the Christian version of a hate-crime.
” A great challenge that our understanding of truth ought to directly correspond in our actions. ”
Sadly even the Rabbi mentioned here ignores this statement as much as the common Christian does. If he is a truly trained Rabbi (he sounds like he comes from the liberal schools) he will have spent most of his time studying Talmud and what others say about the scriptures rather than what the scriptures actually say. They idea of loving others is the message of the scriptures, is at the heart of imitating God and is “explained” by Jesus.
As MLD says if we don’t love Jesus (and imitate Him) we are only part of the great crowd of the lost. Jesus pointed this out to a fellow Jew who asked Him how one can enter the Kingdom, sell all your stuff…
Of course the present world of the lost would be a whole lot better if people applied the Rabbi’s teaching and lived it out. The same could be said for the Church if our lives were more about imitating Jesus rather than defending, no crusading, the belief systems of the organization we chose to imitate.
I have said earlier that I am sure that the Rabbi is a fine guy and I am sure that he is well trained in his Judaism.
I am sure that I also mentioned that a Jew from Encino MUST be a Dodgers’ fan. 🙂