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96 Responses

  1. erunner says:

    I get a cold usually twice a year and this is one of those times. Started Monday with a sore throat and sluggishness. Tuesday my throat was fine but then there’s the congestion and feeling lousy. Today the congestion and feeling blah are still going and I figure I’ll be fine Monday.

    We’ve had grandchildren with us for almost five years and I’m wondering if they could be the culprits.

    I’m taking better care of myself and exercise a lot but I can’t avoid these colds. In the scheme of things I have nothing to complain about and am grateful for what hasn’t come my way.

    Is the grandchildren thought off base? What are your secrets for not getting colds?

    Have a great day!

  2. AA says:

    Hi E, it is long been my contention that kids always have the best germs! Along with sweet smiles & much joy.

  3. Jim says:


    Vitamins. I haven’t had a cold since 2007.

  4. Jim says:

    Question for the gang here.

    What is meekness?

    Who are the meek?

  5. covered says:

    Jim, I love the word meek. The best definition I have ever heard on this word is that it is inner strength. I think that many in the world incorrectly thinks of “weak” when they hear this word.

    When Jesus described His Character in Matt eleven, He said that He was “gentle and lowly”. For me, this describes meek. As you know Jesus uses the word meek in the Beatitudes as well. Just my .02 and I will wait for MLD or another one of our local theologians to correct me 🙂

  6. The meek are those who, like Christ, do not consider equality with God as a thing to be grasped (aspired) but who humble themselves. The meek are those with the power and the right to smash someone who instead wash their feet. The meed are the broken and wounded who suffer more indignities to maintain the tiny dignity of self identity that sustains them. The meek are lions who stand having been slain as a lamb. The meek are the true seed of Abraham who stand in their possession and are content to not possess it because they are looking for a city who’s builder and maker is God.

    The meek are those who embrace their brothers knowing God intended it for good. The meek are those who labor when they have the right to demand compensation but they choose tent making. The meek are the bruised reeds that know He will not break them. The meek are those possessing nothing who have everything. The meek is the widow with the mite who cannot hold it. The meek are everywhere but nowhere lauded. The meek are known in hell and heaven alike. Demons acknowledge them and angels sustain them. The meek are the heirs of all things.

  7. Jim says:

    So BD, you’ve given this some thought? 🙂

  8. Babylon's Dread says:

    A certain pastor in a Tx megachurch thinks the meek are the strong who had someone stand up to them and demand they stop. He thinks it’s the bully who is crying because he was exposed for the coward he is.

  9. Babylon's Dread says:

    Actually Jim … that was my first thoughts… it kinda foments out of my dismay at what I decried in my immediately previous post…

  10. Michael says:

    The best definition I have for “meek” is strength under control…the image of a bridled horse is appropriate.

  11. Jim says:

    I’m asking because I want to be meek. I don’t struggle with humility in relation to God, because I know Him, am known by Him, and, through a glass darkly, know who He is. This is BEYOND humbling.

    With my fellow man, I’m way too cocky, and I don’t like it.

  12. erunner says:

    AA and Jim, Thanks for your responses.

  13. Babylon's Dread says:


    I do not suffer colds often but have no secret… some colds have their genesis in allergies and the old wisdom is that ingesting local honey is an inoculation against local allergies. Otherwise I don’t know.

  14. erunner says:

    Thanks Dread. Never considered a connection with allergies. Will research that a bit.

  15. Jean says:


    I pulled this definition out of the following commentary: Hans Dieter Betz, The Sermon on the Mount (Hermeneia – A Critical and Historical Commentary, 1995). This is a direct quotation, however, the transliterated Greek letters did not copy and paste, so they are omitted. As you may expect, “meekness” as used in the 1st Century does not mean what many modern Americans may associate with that word today. I wonder how Eugene Peterson paraphrases the term or how you might?

    “Who are those designated as “the meek”? In the context of the SM the answer is evident: “The meek” is a variation on the notion of “the poor in (the) spirit” (5:3). This connection also explains that meekness is not simply a given condition but an ethical attitude to be acquired. Meekness is an attitude that fits the condicio humana; it is the appropriate reaction to it and may even be generally desirable. This does not mean, however, that it is to be taken as a commonplace.

    Literary parallels show that Jewish piety highly valued meekness, where it is a synonym for “humility.” The meaning of terminology differs, of course, depending on the context in wisdom literature, the Qumran texts, apocalyptic, or later rabbinic literature. Meekness is the general characteristic of the sage, the righteous person, and the ruler, with Moses and others serving as paradigms.

    For the Greeks, meekness was a virtue closely associated with philanthropy. Theologically, it was associated with the justice of Zeus, but the religion of the Greeks had many other manifestations of divine gentleness.

    As a virtue, meekness was a mark of the true philosopher, foremost Socrates. For the Romans, dementia became the preferred virtue of the good ruler, a tradition that has its roots in Greek and Near Eastern traditions. The opposites of meekness were “brutality” and “untamed anger”. There is no question, therefore, that the SM joins with the Hellenistic world in general when it singles out meekness as a fundamental ethical standard.

    Not surprisingly, the third beatitude played a significant role in early Christian ethics. Did. 3.7 has another version somewhat different from the SM: “Be then meek, since the meek will inherit the earth”. Closely related is 3.8: “Be patient and merciful and free of evil and quiet and good and trembling with regard to the words always that you have heard”.

    James 3:13 makes meekness part of the description of the Christian sage: “Who among you is wise or clever? Let his right conduct give practical proof of it, with the meekness that comes from wisdom.” The old cluster of wisdom sayings in 1 Clem. 13.1-3 that combines passages from the Old Testament with sayings of Jesus, which perhaps come from the SM, concludes with a citation of Isa 66:2: “The man I [sc.God] shall look to is none other than the one who is meek and quiet and trembling with regard to my words”. The relationship between the passages in Did. 3.8 and 1 Clem. 13.1-4 is apparent, but explanation of that relationship is difficult. Textually, they do not depend on each other; most probably both have drawn the material from some wisdom source. From this pool, rather than from Ps 36:11 LXX directly, may also come the material that makes up the beatitude in SM/Matt 5:5. For the SM itself, one can find evidence of meekness throughout; meekness is an ethical value that underlies many other passages, even if it is not stated (cf. 5:21-26, 38-42, 43-48; 6:12, 14-15).”

  16. Jean says:

    I forgot that multiple Scripture citations puts a comment in moderation purgatory. If it can be released from moderation, I have a comment to add to the preceding excellent comments.

  17. E – when my grandkids were younger I used to refer to them as The Germinators

  18. jlo says:

    E, for me it has got to be Oregano oil, it’s a natural antibiotic.

    At the first sign of a cold, a few drops in a teaspoon of olive oil, twice a day, for a couple of days, stops a cold in its tracks.

    Because of its antibiotic properties it works well for lots of things.

  19. The 9 things listed in the ‘Blesseds’ are who we are in Christ … just by being in Christ. Not something we strive for or put on our to do list..

    If you are a Christian you are already seen as meek – and all the rest. Now that is the comfort of the gospel 🙂

  20. Jean says:

    “If you are a Christian you are already seen as meek – and all the rest. Now that is the comfort of the gospel”


  21. Babylon's Dread says:


    Welcome to sanctification 101…

  22. Jean – from the viewpoint of a do it yourself Christian, I would be viewed as wrong. 😉

    But let me ask this, if you are not already a Christian then how do you;
    Already have the kingdom of God
    Already see God
    Already called Sons of God

    And if you need to become meek,and the 8 other things in order to be saved, then it’s not grace that saves you but you own attitude adjustment.

    A Tony Robbins book would be just as effective as the Bible.

  23. Anne says:

    MLD- saying that those beatitudes refer to those in Christ (only?) is a caveat not spoken by Jesus nor specifically addressed in any of the epistles to the best of my recollection. What is the basis of that conclusion? Could they be blessings that fall like the rain on both the justified & unjustified? Inquiring sincerely.

  24. Em says:

    to add to the list at #6 – perhaps, the meek are the teachable ones – not to be confused with gullible, tho

  25. Anne – are you saying that the unsaved have the kingdom of God?

    Jesus was addressing his disciples, not the masses.

    How could an unbeliever be any of those things since unbelievers are at war with God?

  26. Jean says:

    “For the Law is a mirror in which the will of God, and what pleases Him, are exactly portrayed, and which should [therefore] be constantly held up to the believers and be diligently urged upon them without ceasing.” The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord, Article VI, paragraph 4.

    Jesus, did not preach just for the h*** of it. Also, God is not delusional; he knows our condition; but He’s not leaving us in that condition. Also, we know our condition and we’re not delusional; but, as the psalmist wrote, we delight in the Law of the Lord so that we might know the will of God.

    “Thereafter the Holy Ghost employs the Law so as to teach the regenerate from it, and to point out and show them in the Ten Commandments what is the [good and] acceptable will of God, Rom. 12:2, in what good works God hath before ordained that they should walk, Eph. 2:10. He exhorts them thereto, and when they are idle, negligent, and rebellious in this matter because of the flesh, He reproves them on that account through the Law, so that He carries on both offices together: He slays and makes alive; He leads into hell and brings up again. For His office is not only to comfort, but also to reprove, as it is written: When the Holy Ghost is come, He will reprove the world (which includes also the old Adam) of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.” SD, Article VI, paragraph 12.


  27. Anne,- “saying that those beatitudes refer to those in Christ (only?)”

    I am not saying that it is something given to Christians only. I am saying it is descriptive of Christians.

  28. Jean, you are misapplying the article. You have not addressed my questions at #22 – they are simple.

    Which comes first?

  29. Anne says:

    Thanks for your replies MLD.

  30. Xenia says:

    “If you are a Christian you are already seen as meek – and all the rest. Now that is the comfort of the gospel”<<<

    This is simply not true.

    You can, if you desire, become all these things (meek, etc.) if you deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Jesus.

    It is not comforting to pretend something is true when it is not.

  31. Jean says:

    I didn’t address your questions because they are ridiculous and make certain assumptions about what I previously said that are inaccurate.

    But, in addition to: How am I misapplying the article?

    Who sees living Christians as already meek?

    Who are the do it yourself Christians?

    Why did Jesus give that sermon?

  32. Xenia says:

    What does it mean to be meek? Dread’s post is very good. So you look at a Christian who displays none of these virtues and yet say he’s meek because of some doctrinal positional word game? No. Better to follow the Lord and actually become meek, in reality. It’s possible, because one can do all things through Christ.

  33. Em says:

    Xenia’s #30 AMEN! ! ! (I declare meekly, but impolitely)

  34. “Who sees living Christians as already meek?” —- God

    Who sees Christians as already seated in the heavenlies — God

    Who still sees me as a stinker? — God

  35. Anne says:

    Xenia: “It is not comforting to pretend something is true when it is not.” Or what comfort there is, is short lived, followed by a rude awakening sooner or later 😉

  36. Ephesians 1:3
    “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,” – Please note the EVERY.

    Paul tells me that I have already received all of the blessings – are any of you saying that he meant all the blessings EXCEPT those 9?

  37. Em says:

    MLD’s #34 … some things don’t shorthand well, IMO… yes, when God ‘looks’ at me, He sees Christ, does He ‘see’ me as a stinker? dunno –
    I think He ‘knows’ that I am a stinker, but a pilgrim pressing on toward the mark – the high prize of my calling in Christ… and He knows my frame that it is dust and is condemned and has a new one waiting for me at the end of the journey – that’s just a fact
    while I may wink and say, ‘what the heck, I’m just a no-good stinker, riddled with sin and I can’t help it,’ that may be almost as bad as trying to be sinless in my mortal condition – dunno

    I’m guessing that He’d like to see me concentrate on gaining more Christ (my righteousness) than I do…

  38. Em says:

    Jim’s #11 … had to go back up the line to see just why this thread developed into a character discussion
    “With my fellow man, I’m way too cocky, and I don’t like it.”

    Just what defines ‘cocky?’ dismissive? arrogant? those would be bad, I guess…
    is there a Biblical term for ‘cocky?’

  39. Jean says:

    Em, perhaps “hauty” = cocky

  40. Jean says:

    MLD, unfortunately we’re talking past each other by confusing justification, imputation and sanctification, and by assuming a word used in one text means exactly the same thing everywhere else it is used. You are coming across as an Antinomianist (which I’m sure you would not agree with) and to you apparently I am coming across as a works righteousness guy (which I reject). Based on the the failure to come to common terms of reference, we’ll never come to common questions, much less answers. So, it’s probably better to move on.

  41. Jean – I am not confusing terms. I said yesterday that as a Lutheran we believe that sanctification is part of our justification. Remember I said that when I asked about “half baked” Christians?

    To a Lutheran God does it all – he does all 4 parts of the salvation process. He repents us – he justifies us – he sanctifies us and in the end he glorifies us.

    Where we do differ is that some folks believe that they repent themselves and that they help God sanctify themselves. Most seem satisfied to allow God to work alone in justification and glorification.

    Although I am not an antinomian I do want my message to sound as if I am. 🙂

  42. Xenia says:

    Ah, ok. Sorry about that, my comment wasn’t getting through so let me try again.

    To a Lutheran God does it all<<<

    He didn't do anything for me except allow me to sink further into sin, back when I followed this doctrine.

    To an Orthodox Christian, God actually enjoys our company and enjoys teaching us things. He really, truly loves us. We are not odious objects that must be covered up with a white sheet of imputed righteousness, He is willing to make us truly righteous people. He is willing if we are willing. This is what synergism is all about- doing things with God so that in the process, we become more like God.

  43. Jean says:

    Discipleship is a living, breathing, pilgrimage; it’s not a theological exam experienced in a classroom or the words of a confession uttered in a sanctuary.

    He freed us from slavery in Egypt, washed us in the red sea, is leading us through the wilderness, teaching us how to enjoy freedom and depend on Him, and He has promised us an ultimate place of rest at the end of our journey.


  44. Xenia,
    “He is willing if we are willing.”

    How is that different from the CC type of synergism?
    “God has made his offer to make you righteous. If you are willing, come to the front, bow your head and tell God (sinner’s prayer) that you are willing.”

  45. Jim says:

    Em-it smells like pride to me. I don’t have a temper (by the grace of God, as I’m half Scots-Irish and half Greek), and never get “very” angry. I don’t want to flip people off in traffic or any of that stuff. I just find myself often thinking in board meetings, “you have no idea what you’re talking about, and should just shut up”. I don’t say things like that, but smooth it out a little, saying, “listen, this is what the law says and we aren’t going to debate it for a half hour…let’s move on”. It’s arrogant and dismissive.

  46. Em says:

    well, i guess i’m not on the same page with anyone here… some of it is semantics or the exceedingly fine tuning of the theologian – necessary precision for Doctrines?

    the teaching that makes all the sense in the world to me is the battle for my soul – the new birth, “Christ in me…” evangelical? well… praise God!
    i became a 3 part being when i was born again – spiritually alive – body, soul and spirit and my body (flesh) is dying… I (soul) will live again in a totally spirit controlled mind and glorified body… now i walk in newness, but the flesh keeps tugging and tempting and tripping 🙂 me – i am stuck in this condition for as long as my mortal flesh survives… some of us are nicer, sweeter, kinder, smarter etc. than others… but to God, degree of depravity is not the issue – the fact of it is…

    sorry about the unlearned, untheologically trained pontification, but job one is to know God and enjoy Him continually? what a privilege – enjoy Christ

    posting without editing (as i usually do) and i apologize for that

  47. Xenia says:

    “God has made his offer to make you righteous. If you are willing, come to the front, bow your head and tell God (sinner’s prayer) that you are willing<<<

    Correct. Except CC sees it as a one-time decision whereas we see it as a process. In both cases, cooperation with God is involved.

    But most of what I heard at CC was "God does it all." Maybe this was a pet doctrine of that particular CC pastor, I don't know. But it was quite plain that God wasn't do much with me, no matter how long I waited for something to happen. Nothing ever happened.

    Until I left those that held that doctrine, that is.

  48. Xenia says:

    And my old CC was very big on imputed righteousness, which is not an EO doctrine.

  49. Em says:

    Jim #46 – for what it’s worth – perhaps what you describe is your experience and conviction surfacing? – i don’t know the dynamic that you work within, of course.
    my daughter is doing some travel nursing at the moment and the company wants her to work 18+ hour stretches treating acutely ill patients (they brag that they work until all the work is finished – sometimes around the clock) – she says that she knows after 12 hours, she is not safe, but doesn’t want to be the ‘bad guy.’ I told her sometimes you have to be…

    ps i am half scotch-irish – the other half is 57 varieties

  50. Em says:

    erunner here’s my 2 cents worth on avoiding catching colds – wash your hands and cough into the crook of your arm 😆
    actually, I have given up tooth paste – I use Listerine (the yellow stuff) to brush my teeth, mouth and gargle and it seems that now I seldom have a sore throat or stuffy nose – can’t remember the last one, knock on wood…
    stay well, E
    just sayin in order to put off a little longer going out in the cold and wind and MUD to feed the ponies

  51. j2theperson says:

    Erunner, I tend to get a cold every couple months. Until recently they would always be quite bad. I thought there was something wrong with me and my immune system was crap. I started seeing a chiropractor a couple months ago. It turns out that I was chronically holding my head in a way that pinched off my sinuses and made it difficult for them to to drain. I’ve been working on my posture and getting adjusted every couple weeks and the last cold I know I got was almost nonexistent–a little bit of a sore throat but nothing else. And there was one other time after that where I felt like I might be getting sick, but then it didn’t progress. I also try to take Airborne right away whenever I feel like I’m getting a sore throat.

  52. Jean says:

    This post is for folks who either (1) can’t sleep, (2) can’t find anything interesting on TV tonight, or (3) like to cogitate on the imponderables:

    In Matthew’s rendition of the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus taught us to pray:

    “And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.” (M. 6 :13 ESV)

    What kinds of temptation might our Father lead us into? Does He ever lead us into the desert to battle the devil like the Holy Spirit did with Jesus, or allow the Satan to test us like he did with Job? And of course, in His very good creation, why was serpent among the creatures in the garden?

    I’ve been thinking about this because if everything and anything about us known to God is nothing more than Jesus’ righteousness imputed to us (assuming we’re a Christian of course, and because in and of ourselves everything about us is too filthy to be looked upon by His holiness), then where is justice?

    It seems like the cards are stacked against us: (1) Born in Adam (imputed sinfulness?); (2) the devil in the world (was Flip Wilson right???); and (3) the image He gave us, which we seem programed to explore. Again, where is justice?

  53. “Again, where is justice?”
    The Lutheran answer to this question is ,,, was hung on the cross

    I will get in trouble again

  54. Open Blogging – I am taking my daughter and her kids out to dinner in celebration of her new job.

    It’s been a long 5-6 yrs since her divorce and being a single mom to the 2 kids. She went to nursing school and graduated 2 yrs ago and then went directly into the RN program while working 2 other jobs. She graduated that program in June then had to wait to complete her boards which she did.

    It took 3 months but Thursday she got a job as a post cardiac nurse at a hospital 1 mile from her home. Not only that but they hired her for day shifts which is quite unusual for new hires.

    We will party tonight! 🙂

  55. Jean says:

    Sweet MLD!!!

  56. Jean – Prayer is pretty much repeating back to God that which he has already told us. So really, in the Lord’s Prayer is our affirmation of those things.

    Give us our daily bread because you have promised to give us our daily bread.
    Just like the first part affirms who he is, the 2nd part affirms his word.

  57. Jean says:

    MLD, Are you saying that there are no supplications?

    Wow! So, here is the sum total of the God you’ve introduced me to: (1) no inward witness, (2) no answers to prayer, (3) no work of the Holy Spirit in me, and (4) no petitions from me in prayer. That’s a heck of a Father/adopted son relationship.

    I guess this Christianity thing is just a “get out of hell pass”. Reminds me of the Breakfast Club.

  58. Xenia says:

    Great news about your daughter! Good for her and God bless her!

  59. Jean says:

    Does anyone else have a different version of Christianity to offer?

  60. Em says:

    here’s wishing MLD’s daughter a long, fulfilling career – amen to #57

    “lead us not into temptation…” I used to puzzle over that one also, partly because I thought it was our responsibility to resist… my sense/conclusion is that the petition is requesting to be led away from it
    that said, today – the times in which we’re now living – it seems a tall order even for God to lead us ‘away’ as temptations are everywhere and in every form

    “deliver us from evil” – evil is, IMV, attitudinal and we are very vulnerable, easily in over our depth… it leads to things like self righteousness and jihad – God deliver us from evil

    just my 2 cents – not trying to start a new religion here

  61. erunner says:

    jlo, Thanks. That’s an interesting remedy and one I’ll take a good look at.

    Em, Thanks. I read that seniors average less than one cold per year which surprised me. My wife preaches to me about hand washing and I try to cough into my arm. It cracks me up when at the dinner table the grands cough or sneeze quite spontaneously and they just let it fly! 🙂

    j2, I’ve read and heard so much about the benefits of seeing a chiropractor. I just finished seeing one so I’ll ask him about it.

    Thank you all again.

  62. Em says:

    erunner, just had to add one more thing before i call it quits here… may God bless you and your wife – what a blessing for your grandchildren’s childhood – to sit down at the dinner table with their Godly grandparents

  63. Jean says:

    For Christians, the gateway drug to atheism is deism, which leads to agnosticism, and finds its final destination in atheism.

    As science progresses and we explain for ourselves more and more about who we are, what we are, how we work and where we come from, it’s easy to become “cocky” about the extent of our wisdom. We begin to think that with time and inquiry, we can answer all our questions and explain everything. Unconsciously, we push God and our need for a Lord and Saviour to the edges of the solar system and eventually to the edge of the Milky Way where He becomes for us not Our Father, but father time.

    Our faith requires a God who walks with us as God walked with Adam, who when we screw up and try to hide calls out: “where are you?” We need a God to talk to, who talks back. I don’t want a medium (as though God only speaks to us through a book), I claim His promise of a Counselor and Comforter; a Spirit who intercedes for me when I don’t have the words to pray myself. If God raised Jesus from the dead, then He d*** sure has not left us alone down here.

  64. Jim says:


    You believe that those who have received eternal life can die spiritually? From new creation to old creation?

    You also believe that God speaks to man today with the same clarity as he spoke with Adam?


  65. Jean says:

    Q.1. The question of the possibility of apostasy divides the church. There is Scriptural support for both positions. I’m not taking any chances and advise my friends likewise.

    Q.2. I’ve personally heard God speak to me, it was an internal voice that I don’t attribute to imagination or intuition. It dealt with specific circumstances in specific terms.

    The communication God had with Adam was not unique in Scripture. Jesus made the promise repeatedly.

    What do you find strange?

  66. Jim says:

    I’m continuationist, and was pentecostal for years, but I’ve never heard anyone say that we should expect to converse with God as Adam did.

  67. Babylon's Dread says:

    I think I am with Jean on this though I have not read the total thread. Certainly possessing the Holy Spirit and the text puts us in a unique position. Adam knew God briefly without knowing sin I would not claim to have that clarity. I would however claim that the New Covenant Spirit puts us in a better place than the Torah.

    As for apostasy I am well known for my belief that the scriptures could not be clearer about apostasy being a definite reality. There are so many scriptures that are unambiguous if we take them at face value that the possibility of those who once had faith can turn away. I hold a simple nuanced position that claims those with faith are alway secure and those without it are never.

  68. Babylon's Dread says:

    Further faith is not something you bring to the table it is something you receive and something you can forsake. But that old path is worn deep. And those of us who have trod it are unlikely to repent.

  69. Jim says:

    I’d agree that the redeemed becoming unredeemed is an old argument, which won’t be solved here. Also agree that our relationship with God, including how we communicate, is apples and oranges from the OT.

    But the Adam thing is off.

  70. Jean says:

    Jim, God spoke to Elijah in low whisper. Are you open to that kind of encounter?

  71. brian says:

    Personally I never, well when I was first a Christian and was truly excited and awed about the faith and Jesus. I got over that quick once inside the corporation. I never expect God to talk to me, answer my prayers, show Himself, the fact that He has not slaughtered me where I stand and send my blackened soul to hell is enough. Well its not but that is because Im weak.

  72. Jean @ 58
    “MLD, Are you saying that there are no supplications?”

    Where would you pick that up from what I said? You were asking specifically about the Lord’s Prayer and questioned God’s justice because you thought we were begging God not to tempt us.

    How silly was that ‘christian’ thought on your part?

    Now to your specifics
    1.) no inward witness, – look inside all you want. As for me I look outside myself to Jesus and his promises. If I look inward I will be all over the place depending on my mood and attitude. I look to my Father for assurance… I think you are the one with the warped adoptive father outlook – you ignore him.

    2.) no answers to prayer, – I have no idea where you get that. I ask for daily bread and I get that and more everyday … isn’t that an answer to prayer?

    3.) no work of the Holy Spirit in me – you cannot be a christian without the holy spirit working in you. So that is not something I say.

    4.) no petitions from me in prayer.- I personally use very few petitions and practically none for myself. I will admit I am more into praise and thanksgiving than petition. I usually don’t think I deserve most of the stuff I do receive. So, you have me on #4.

  73. Thank you Jean, Xenia and Em for the comments about my daughter.

  74. The part about God speaking to us today – I think I asked this once before – if I am walking and I come to a fork in the road and I do not know which way to go and I pray to God, are you saying that you will here “go left.”?

  75. brian says:

    MLD I hope all goes well for your daughter’s new job and her work load is diminished to a reasonable time. I have been involved in the medical / rehab field for a long time and I do remember the 18+ hour days, they are not healthy. Maybe there is a way she can express this to management that it puts the company at risk do to potential litigation do to medical mistakes caused by the working conditions. This has worked in the past for some nurses I knew / know my mom when she was alive was one of them and they reduced workload down to 14 hours a day with a minimum of 12 hours off and no more than five days in a row with the need for two days off. Work related incidents decreased and it did save the company money in the long run. Just some thoughts.

  76. brian, thanks for the concern. Her gig is suppose to be 3 12 hr shits per week = full time and they require 2 weekends a month. So it sounds good for now.

  77. Babylon's Dread says:

    If I hear God say “go left” I will but I think he would lean right….;)

  78. brian says:

    MLD that does sound good, I am glad she got a job and one that hopefully has good medical benefits for her and her family.

  79. Jim says:


    I’m open to whatever God wants to do, but Elijah was a prophet and Adam was Adam, and you and I are neither.

  80. Jean says:

    No worries Jim. The Prophetic Training School offers an online Basic Prophetic Minister Certificate. They also offer a course in prophetic dreams and visions.

  81. Babylon's Dread says:


    Jean may be poking fun but I think she points to truth. The gift and office of prophet was never revoked in scripture… it is only some churches who maintain that.

    Interestingly if you merely read the history of Calvary Chapel you will discover that the whole thing points back to the prophetic word of Kay Smith. Every book I read about their history notes it.

  82. Jim says:


    I agree that all of the gifts exist today,including prophesy. I disagree with the “office” view, but have no desire to quibble. If we can stop moving the goal post for a moment, my contention is that Christians have not been promised, nor should they expect to walk and talk with God in the manner of Adam. Not down here.

  83. Babylon's Dread says:

    By definition the Adam case is closed in your favor if you mean his Edenic experience. Sin brought exile but we do see God speak just as freely to Adam’s son Cain despite his vile life. I would argue that we don’t have information that falsifies your claim. We simply do not know exactly what the communication looked like. We only know the report that it occurred.

    I relent your case but argue lack of clarity in the data. One thing is sure we cannot know what it is like to have communicated with God without sin.

  84. London says:

    Jim- step one…
    Admit that you have a problem and that your life (or at least the aspect of it that makes you arrogant) is out of control….

    Get yourself in something like Celebrate recovery, or some Christian 12 step program.
    Don’t go in as a know it all trying to fix other people, but an active participant who is focusing on dealing with that core issue.
    Make a promise to yourself that you’ll do the work honestly and be open in group no matter how embarrassing what you have to say about yourself is…just do the work.

    12 steps aren’t just for those addicted to substances, sometimes, it’s about being addicted to ourselves.

    Been there….done that….

  85. Jean says:

    There’s a dilemma that a Christian may face. Most of us deep down inside want to do the right thing in the sight of God (in our prayer life and in other matters), whether you call it “good works” or “obedience”, because we love God and want to please Him, like any child wants to please his earthly father. This is a natural reaction to the grace we have all received through the blood of Christ.

    However, a problem arises because true good works are the fruit of the Spirit done voluntarily and with a cheerful spirit. In other words, the Holy Spirit is the source of our good works. If that same work is done from selfish motives, ambition, or out of a sense of guilt or coercion, then it is not a good work, but a work of the Law. We know from Galatians that works of the Law are a dead end, because the Law is not based on faith.

    As if the source of our good works were not enough of an issue, the problem is compounded because as sinners (with the old Adam still tugging at us), it is virtually impossible in this life to do good works from of a pure heart. In other words, human pride, ambition, the desire for recognition, comparing ourselves with others, trying to gain favor with God, etc., naturally (because we’re fleshly) creep into our good works. If we wait until we can act from a pure heart, who among us could ever lift a finger?

    However, God knows our dilemma and provides the answer. Although in this flesh our good works are impure and incomplete, they are nonetheless pleasing and acceptable to God, because on account of Christ’s perfect faithfulness and obedience, we are acceptable to God. Therefore, I strive to live by the Spirit, I pray for grace to bear good fruit from pure motives and with a cheerful spirit, and I pray for forgiveness when He convicts me of my selfish motives. I’m choosing to live into person He is creating in me, even though right now I’m a work in process. Prayer for me is where God and I work through these issues.

  86. Em says:

    almost didn’t listen to Charles Stanley this morning… his choir was chanting a back up to some gal who was throwing a tantrum ( my take on it), screaming for the Holy Spirit to come down and teach them…

    then the preacher presented his message on how to live the Christian life (again – they all seem to want to tell us how to), but I had to smile, he said that it sums up in one four letter word – be kind…
    who knows, might work…

    of course, i am not doing justice to the message, but maybe the Holy Spirit heard them (course, i would have added, “shut up and be kind” – or vice-versa) 🙂

  87. Jean says:


    Next Wednesday is my turn to lead Bible Study where the text includes James V :1-6.

    “Luxury and self-indulgence” Does anyone have a rule of thumb for how to identify this?

  88. Xenia says:

    And having food and raiment let us be therewith content

    (I Tim 8)

  89. Ziggy: When the meek inherit the earth, who will step forward to claim it?

  90. Donner says:

    +1 to London’s encouragement for Celebrate Recovery. A great tool used by the Lord for a deep season of sanctification, IMO.

  91. Em says:

    Luxury was taking a hot shower this morning after being out in the cold and wind this morning doing chores – was that self indulgent?
    I’m not sure that luxury and self indulgence are always wrong… but as a life-style?… most definitely a practice that all will be held accountable – James 5 is a little scary

  92. Linda Pappas says:

    Jean @ 86

    Beautifully stated.

  93. Adding to 65’s thought:

    “God, having of old time spoken unto the fathers in the prophets by divers portions and in divers manners, hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son” (Heb. 1:1).

    Jesus said, “My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me” (John 10:27).

    The Bible records God speaking audibly to people many times (Exodus 3:14; Joshua 1:1; Judges 6:18; 1 Samuel 3:11; 2 Samuel 2:1;Job 40:1; Isaiah 7:3; Jeremiah 1:7 ;Acts 8:26; 9:15—this is just a small sampling).

    There is no biblical reason why God could not speak to a person audibly today. With the hundreds of times the Bible records God speaking, we have to remember that they occur over the course of 4,000 years of human history.

    God speaking audibly is the exception, not the rule. Even in the biblically recorded instances of God speaking, it is not always clear whether it was an audible voice, an inner voice, or a mental impression.

    Revelation from the Holy Spirit is another way God can communicate with us. Sometimes we’re able to “hear” something in our spirit that sounds to us like an actual audible voice.

    Christianity is a relationship; every relationship is established and maintained through communication. It is vital that we learn to hear God’s voice, so that we may deepen our relationship with our heavenly Father.

  94. Jim says:


    Do you also believe that God speaks to man today with the same clarity as he spoke with Adam?

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