Who Can I Learn From?
I’ve been sharing the posts of Benjamin Cremer on Facebook lately as he has some very good things to say and he uses the short form limitations of Facebook well.
I have been repeatedly informed that Rev. Cremer has other beliefs that I do not agree with and I should not introduce my readers to “wolves”.
Cremer pastors an “affirming” church, meaning he affirms the place of gay people in the church.
I hold to a traditional view of human sexuality while simultaneously recognizing that I might be wrong.
The thing I like about Cremer (while disagreeing with him on a number of issues) is that he does try to ground everything in Scripture and the love of God.
He simply has different interpretations than I do, but his heart is still in fidelity to Christ.
I will continue to share his insights and exhortations…I’m always open to being challenged and learning from those who differ with me on secondary issues.
I don’t worry too much about who or what people read or listen to…I’m going to assume that you are not an idiot and are able to think for yourself.
I have no desire to control you by giving you a list of “approved” voices.
I trust that you will consult others you respect in regard to any doctrine or dogma, just as I do.
If you look at the history of Christianity, many of our most revered teachers were whacky in some way.
Luther was probably suffering from manic depression and believed in witches.
Calvin’s austerity helped kill him and he believed (as most of the Reformers did) in executing heretics.
Barth had a live in mistress…live in with he and his wife.
We’ve talked endlessly about the sins of pastors across denominational lines.
I’m obsessed with cats.
Now, there are false teachers and wolves out there.
Lots of them.
That’s why it’s important to do theology in community, preferably a church community where wiser, more educated voices have influence for the good of all.
Lacking that, we do have an online community where we can bring things to the table.
My litmus text for orthodoxy begins (and mainly ends) with the historic creeds and confessions of the early church.
The rest…is on the table.
Read broadly, think deeply, and pray without ceasing about it all.
Make your own application…
Glad you’re including him and that you respect your readers’ intelligence. If we only followed those without flaws, it would be a “mighty small congregation.”
bob1,
Most of the warnings I hear from pulpits and online are simply control issues so people don’t think in ways that could challenge the one doing the warning.
It’s a form of institutional control.
I tend to my flock…they can ask me about anything and we can discuss it…sometimes, they disagree with me.
Not a big deal…at least they are thinking…
I want everyone to feel welcome in the church. I feel like we should be breaking down barriers between people and Jesus, not playing gatekeeper. Once they get to Him, he can do wiht them as He please3s.
Josh,
I would tend to agree…if they are seeking Him,He will be found.
Whew. Your Facebook feed is PTSD triggering. You’ve always been a stronger man than me.
Josh,
After what you’ve been through, you’re as tough as they come.
The Facebook thing is interesting.
I just don’t care who doesn’t like me anymore…if they don’t like me because of political reasons.
I try to post things that give people “permission” to think outside the box and affirm them in recognizing the church has hurt people.
I push cat and pet issues because that matters to me.
I try not to be controversial for the sake of riling people…just being who I am .
I realize that we (I) have lost most of our former readers over Trump, immigration, and Covid.
The community is smaller now…but I’m feeling much freer to tell it like I see it.
Cremer has a great perspective on many issues. I don’t have to agree with everything to agree with somethings.
“ but I’m feeling much freer to tell it like I see it.” As you should.
I ran into a member of CCSJ the other morning, a random occurrence in our city. Shook hands, hugged. I hadn’t seen him since before covid. He asked where I was (church wise). I said nowhere. He invited me back, pastor was on a roll or on fire, I forget what exactly he said. I didn’t want to get into it. I know they likely doubled their congregation by defying county orders, but they’re also legally fighting over $1M in fines (how much of tithes goesto lawyers?). I’d love to return to see the few friends I had made there, but feel I can’t in good conscience. I may be also still “butt-hurt” as the kids say when I reached out to a leader at the beginning of the lockdowns to volunteer my time and $ to help people and was told that they had it covered.
I miss the small man group, and the men and women who loved my kids, but… I can’t fake my feelings, right or wrong. Do I need a Leader?
As much as I can’t stand corporate radio, KLOVE and AirOne keep my kids engaged, especially my daughter.
TNV,
I have folks who left the church after Trump/before Covid. I want to ask them how they are getting along…but I know the only conversations they want to have.
For me, it’s better to move on.
Since the topic of folks who left the blog has come up, I thought I’d take this opportunity to explain myself, being as I was once a very prolific poster.
First off, I want to thank Michael for allowing me to preach Eastern Orthodoxy here for the past twenty years on his dime. I really appreciate his generosity in this regard. For that reason I will always be grateful for him. Thank you, Michael.
Now as to why I left… It wasn’t because of either Trump or Covid because I am conflicted on both subjects, as had been pointed out. I think the best I can say is that we (me and all you guys) are just not on the same page anymore. Often I thought of returning to the blog but then I would read something and though, “Aw, what’s the point, do I really want to argue with these dear people?” And there was another issue which I will keep to myself lest “Hell splits wide open.”
But, I still peek in from time to time and I remember my time here fondly. It is no longer a home for me and my thoughts, but that’s neither here nor there.
God bless you all,
Xenia
Xenia,
I know that you are missed…not just by myself, but by our readers.
You are welcome to return anytime…I’m sure many are on the same page with you…thoughtful disagreement is always welcome. that’s how we learn.
I found out about Barth’s long-time assistant just as I was becoming a big fan of the guy. It’s almost like he had two wives, as they all lived together.
On a related note, I somehow still enjoy Woody Allen movies but my wife doesn’t. She can’t distinguish the artist from his work. I agree the man’s flaws bleed into his work.
Xenia, I’m glad you popped in. You are loved.
“I’m obsessed with cats…”
😂😂😂
Many of us know that’s not your biggest problem….
We still love ya….
I have always made it a practice to listen to or read those I do not agree with on everything. It is amazing how many times they will uncover a nugget of truth that is often neglected by “sound” voices. Most of the time when I listen to NPR or watch CNN I yell at the air because I simply cannot believe how they arrive at many of their conclusions.
Yet, I have also been confronted to consider something outside of my normal perview (especially religiously speaking) on hundreds of occasions. I think it was yesterday Terry Gross had an interesting conversation with some person I never heard of about Christianity. I found it a rather stimulating discussion with lots good insight especially how the church is missing its true mission by being too enamored with political power. Furthermore, it was interesting to hear someone else besides my widely sporadic thoughts discuss the effect that this enamorment has on a watching world. Needless to say it is not a positive one.
We as Christians shoot our own wounded and divide over the most ungodly things in the name of “righteousness” and “Biblical fidelity.” The two of which are really more of a license to ignore those two things for a personal agenda.
I think the following words I once read sum it up in a nutshell, “If the faith I profess to have has not the power to change my life neither does it have the power to change my destiny (loose paraphrase of Tozer I think). To this end whatever happened to, “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you” (Matthew 5:44) and “By this all people will know you are my disciples by your love one for another?” (John 13:36)
Hmm. Interesting. I think I may be starting to feel better. Better about my health but not the moronic preoccupations of “my brethren.” Lol.
Ben Cremer is, in fact, a false teacher. He is not only gay-affirming, he also supports abortion, as does his church. No one who calls themselves a Christian should be supporting either abortion or homosexuality. Ben is a staunch deconstructionist who has traded in Jesus and the Bible for Social Justice Doctrine and he openly attempts to shame anyone who will not join him in embracing every single facet of secular society. He lies about his upbringing in several interviews, blaming his parents conservative views as being the reason he had to cast off the oppressive shackles of orthodox doctrine and adopt a secular humanist worldview. His parents were not then and are not now conservatives, so those statements are false. He simply finds large parts of the Bible which are about sin, repentance and moral values to be too restrictive and he steadfastly refuses to preach repentance, for anything. He preaches a gospel devoid of Jesus and he has some decidedly flawed and frightening ideas about who Jesus is and how He operates. In Ben’s worldview, Jesus is just a powerless cardboard cutout who smiles a lot, tells you to “love” and rubber stamps virtually anything you want to do as long as you attach the magical love word to it. His gospel is useless and it helps no one, except to make sure they stay in their sin.
Freddy Ozone,
You seem to define what is Christian by your political views.
Repent.
Funny that you would use the word “repent” when, in this article, you platform a pastor that steadfastly refuses to talk about repentance. I think you are commanding the wrong person. Your flip reply is a garden-variety passive insult when someone is called out for their poor doctrine and theology and has no cogent or meaningful reply. There was nothing even remotely political in my post. I pointed out that Ben not only advocates, he endorses and encourages things that the Bible clearly says are sins. There is nothing political about that. Perhaps instead of chiding others who point out blatantly false doctrine you should choose the people you support more carefully as well as checking your own worldview.
Freddy Ozone,
I’m not a member of his church so I have no idea how much he speaks of repentance.
I do know he says some things that are solidly biblical that aren’t preached about much.
You are correct…my worldview is miles away from yours.
Ben is absolutely a false teacher. Christ literally came to the earth and died for our sins and you can’t find Ben even once telling people to embrace Christ’s salvation through what He did on the cross. It’s as if sin means nothing to him and it’s all about fluffy “just love each other bro” logic. Ben rattles constantly about politics and never about people reconciling their lives with Christ so they receive eternal salvation. What he does is the opposite of love if he just cares about people’s temporal lives on earth instead of their eternal lives in either heaven or hell. He needs prayer I hope God wakes him up.
Do you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God? It does not seem that Benjamin Cremer does.
“Do you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God? ‘
No.
What? Then what are you possibly defending or rejecting? Why even engage in these conversations if there’s no objective, inerrant truth found in Scripture? I think we can all see why you would embrace the “progressive Christian” message of folks like Benjamin Cremer. You should probably read more Megan Basham — she points out the rot behind this form of Christianity that’s becoming harder and harder to distinguish from modern secular culture.
Wesley Anderson,
Basham has been exposed as a dishonest reporter twisting facts to fit her political leanings.
You like her for that reason…and dislike Cremer because you think he opposes yours.
You don’t know what you don’t know…
If you do not believe in the innerancy of scripture then you have no business calling yourself a preacher. That would also explain why you are so comfortable with Ben’s teachings and so irritated that his false teachings are labeled as exactly what they are. False Social Justice teachers backstop one another and they don’t take criticism well. When you dismiss the innerancy of scripture you cease being a Christian at that point and are just another secular humanist, albiet one wearing a knock-off label of christianity. Why waste your time when you don’t believe what you are teaching?
Freddy,
There is not enough time in the day to expose your ignorance and doing so would probably do you great emotional damage.
The Bible is a sacred book written over many centuries and cultures by humans…then translated into English much later.
I believe in Jesus, not a book…though the book has great authority.
You mistake being a political hack for being a faithful Christian…social justice is in the very fiber of the book you claim to be without error.
I actually believe the Bible much more than you do…
Benjamin Cremer is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. People like him are why the Christian Left shouldn’t be taken seriously. He doesn’t live for God. He lives for the world. He’s winning points for the DNC, but not for the Kingdom.
Unlike Megan Basham, Cremer twists facts and cherry picks the Word to fit his political leanings.
He and other Christian liberals need to repent and have their views reevaluated. If prayer bashing doesn’t bother you, but having the 10 Commandments in schools does, you need to have the den of robbers inside of you torn down and rebuild the Godly temple that once stood there. You don’t get to push non-belief and then tell people how to put Faith into practice. And I saw he was among those pushing the bogus claim about Jesus forgiving financial debts. Stuff like that is why liberal churches are mostly empty. People either fell to non-belief or left for more Godly churches.
Plus, he needs to do a better job when it comes to loving his conservative and Jewish neighbors. Republicanphobia and antisemitism are not of God and they’re just as bad as racism and homophobia.
Will,
I’m away from my computer, but I will respond when I get home to your slander of the brethren and lies.
Will,
As far as I can tell, Benjamin Cremer is a faithful Christian whose social media postings are grounded in Scripture and the love of God and God’s people.
You sin greatly when you make false accusations against him.
You, like so many others ground your faith in partisan politics instead of the teachings of Jesus…and you will be judged for that idolatry on that Day.
Take your accusations elsewhere…I will not be party to your sin.
But you will be a party to Ben’s sin because he teaches what you like. Ben’s postings are not grounded in scripture. Neither are yours. You eschew the inerrancy of scripture so you can dissimenate worldly tripe, just like Ben does. That is why you defend him. You keep trying to wave the flag of politics when politics has nothing to do with this at all, and, in fact, when false teachers like you and Ben embrace a Woke, worldy dogma that has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus, you so the seeds of destruction to every single person you talk to. Because your gospel is devoid of salvation. So your bleating about not being a party to sin and idolatry fall extremely flat. Your idol is your false, worldy doctrine.
worldy dogma
worldy doctrine
Ah, yes. The crux of the problem. Definitely.
Anyone can hide behind the moniker of the “innerrant Word of God” and set up a false paradigm of classifying people based upon their parroting of allegiance to that phrase.
However, this falls short of and undermines the reality grid of the present reign of Jesus Christ the Risen and exalted One in the Kingdom of Heaven now, today. It is this reality upon which we are called to steward in our lives and by which we are assessed and are being tested:
We are called to an embodied obedience to the authoritative command of Christ.”
This the “obedience of faith” to which the Apostle Paul says he is a steward of. To establish communities that embody this obedience to Christ while being formed in character to be like Christ.
The systemic arrogance of America , the subtle but ever present stronghold that whispers to us that we are entitled.
The moment we refuse to crucify our sense of entitlement in any area we have compromised our fellowship with Christ and are vulnerable to any and many arguments that christianized the entitlement we are to crucify.
I am crucified with Christ and my faith is a continually lived out and embodied cruciform faith.
I invite people back into that way of life which is a privilege and gift while finding mercy and grace in letting go of the poisoned carrot of entitlement.