Who Can We Learn From? : Part 2

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19 Responses

  1. Dave Rolph says:

    Maybe theology is best discussed with anonymous people. (Like the early PP days.) Narcissists have nothing to gain and ideas stand on their own. No one should be famous until they are dead.

  2. Michael says:


    You might have just nailed it.

    If there were a way to make that work, we’ed all learn more…good to see you, by the way.

  3. richard says:

    there is a good reason why Jesus taught us to pray “do not lead us into temptation”.

  4. Michael says:


    Amen and amen…

  5. bob1 says:

    I was also very saddened by this. I’ve always looked up to the guy — a brilliant mind and discerner of how the church should be.

    But I don’t see any good reason to throw out all his books or anything.
    Sure, we can learn from him. Maybe just don’t quote him online!

  6. Michael says:


    I’m getting rid of a bunch of books, but I’ll keep his.

  7. Kevin H says:


    I had thought of you when I first saw this the other day. It sucks to see someone fall who we had looked up to, especially when they had appeared to be one of the better ones in character and avoiding foolishness when compared to many other famous pastors or teachers.

    I would submit we can still learn from the past work of those who have fallen, as God still works, but psychologically, it sure makes it a lot harder when you know what you know when trying to read them or listen to them.

  8. Michael says:

    Kevin H,

    I’ve thought about this some more and I do agree.

    The issue that is unresolved in my mind is what to do with this man going forward.

    Should we allow him access to young people?
    Should we buy any books he may get published?
    Should he still make a living from the church?

    It all depends on the extent of his repentance…which looks pretty weak from here.

  9. Shawn says:

    Interesting question you have posed. I must admit it is once I have quietly struggled with since the revelations concerning Ravi Zacharias’ fall from grace and learning about A.W. Tozer’s abandonment of his marriage. They both played integral roles in my spiritual and intellectual formation. As a young believer I read Ravi’s “Can Man Live Without God” and Tozer’s “The Pursuit of God.” I walked away from both books more in love with God and the work of our Lord afterwards. For many years I listened to Ravi’s lectures, debates, and Q&A’s. They problem number around 500+ of them. Then one day I happened upon Tozer’s “The Knowledge of the Holy.” I still have not recovered from the challenges issue towards my thinking about God. I mean that in a good way.

    However, I have revisited neither since. It is not because of unforgiveness but rather just two more names in a long list of disappoints. I guess all I am trying to say is I fully understand and I do not have any answers. In the meantime we can commiserate together as the old saying “Birds of a feather…” goes.

    And now I ask myself, “Who can I learn from?”

  10. Jean says:

    I think we should limit our reading to theologians who believe in witches.

  11. Captain Kevin says:

    Jean, spoken like a true Lutheran. Lol!

    I like Dave’s idea of becoming famous posthumously.

  12. Michael says:


    I think we can embrace the ideas and constructions that we find helpful or challenging without affirming the foibles of the writers.

    I forgot about Tozer…Whitefield had the same issues…

  13. Shawn says:

    I think that is probably a good plan moving forward. I think it is a reasonable solution to the dilema. I appreciate the good advice. Thanks!

  14. jtk says:

    This is interesting reading, Michael.

    If he was a senior pastor, esp at a Calvary, I can’t imagine you saying the above….

  15. Michael says:


    He’s not a pastor…he’s a college professor.

    Last time I checked, there are no biblical standards for college professors.

    Thought you had a hell of a ‘gotcha” didn’t you?

  16. JD says:

    Pastors, Teachers, Prophets, Elders, Shepherds. No matter; if they’re duck-walking they are all the same to me.

  17. Muff Potter says:

    Should we also burn those witches at the stake?

  18. Jean says:

    @Muff Potter,
    It depends on what the witches do with their sorcery. In the USA most speech and practice of religion is protected by the Constitution. So, it would take a capital crime and a State that metes out justice via burning (which I doubt our fragile society would permit).

    Somehow, as many Americans have watched our society descend into the depths of moral depravity, which were unimaginable 500 years ago, the same Americans call it progress.

  19. Muff Potter says:

    Interesting choice of words, I would have used the word humane.
    I wouldn’t wanna’ go back to ‘those good old days’ for all the coffee in Costa Rica.
    We’ve come a long way baby!

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