Are These The End Times?

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81 Responses

  1. DavidH says:

    I’m going to say something that might get me expelled from a lot of churches in America. Like other great empires, the United States has done great and admirable things (a Constitution, helping win two 20th Century World Wars, science, etc. However, it will go the way of other great civilizations (Rome, China, et al). Most great civilizations meet their demise at their own hands.

  2. Michael says:


    Exactly… on both points…

  3. Donner says:

    YES. YES. YES.

  4. Michael says:

    Thanks, Donner!

  5. The New Victor says:

    I long thought the that the USA was the Whore of Babylon, before I learned that I wasn’t the only one. I grew up on Hal Lindsey, whom I don’t remember making that argument, but that’s my context.

  6. Nonnie says:

    The trans movement is very upsetting to me. I will say that I do not despise any individuals, but I do despise the fact that there are men taking away the rights of women. Men, claiming to be women, are erasing what it means to be a woman, invading our private spaces, (bathrooms, shelters, prisons, locker rooms, scholarships, awards, etc) Men demanding that parts the of our bodies and abilities are androgenised and women erased by changing names to degrading and erasing women…. “Bonus holes,” (vaginas) chest feeding,” (breastfeeding” “ birthing parent,” (Mothers) etc. I don’t hate any person, but I am furious and upset that the rights I fought for as a young woman, back in the 1960s and 70s and gained are now being stripped from my daughters and granddaughters. I don’t hate, but I despise the delusions that are being affirmed and erasing what it means to be a woman.

  7. Officerhoppy says:

    Whether these are the end times spoken of in scripture or not, I don’t know. But I expect him one day, to return.

    My question is, if one believes Christ will return soon, what are they doing with that belief; sitting in a pew somewhere listening to another prophecy update? Or are you out there sharing the gospel?

    I get the idea that some think that when they get to heaven, God is going to “grade” them on the accuracy of their prophecy calendar.

    What ever our belief, may He find us working toward promoting his kingdom here on earth when he comes

  8. Miriam Wegemer says:

    Looking around, sometimes I do wonder……

  9. Miriam Wegemer says:

    Officerhoppy, AMEN!!

  10. Miriam Wegemer says:

    Nonnie, good thouts – IMHO

  11. Miriam Wegemer says:

    “THOUTS?” NO thoughts

  12. Miriam Wegemer says:

    Michael on point two…. yes, yes, yes! ! !

  13. Michael says:


    ” I don’t hate, but I despise the delusions that are being affirmed and erasing what it means to be a woman.”

    I agree with your views on this matter and I’d like to note that this is the proper response.

    Our enemies are the principalities and powers behind this deception, not the ones who have been deceived.
    The battle is truly spiritual…but we no longer know how to wield those weapons…

  14. Michael says:

    “Or are you out there sharing the gospel?’

    This is an evangelical canard I have little use for.

    It implies that people should be going out and selling Jesus like they’re selling Avon door to door.

    I would suggest (and I teach) that sharing the Gospel begins in your own home…not just by giving family members spiritual information, but by living out a cruciform life in front of them.

    The “going out” is the circle of influence in your life that God has given you…friends, work, places you shop, places you eat…again sharing the Gospel mainly by the life you live in front of them..

    That’s all most will have time for…but the witness of being a faithful relative, co-worker, or customer is kingdom work.

    Many of the Christians I encounter would do well to stay home and try the Gospel out in their own home with their own people…

  15. Michael says:


    America is in bed with the whore…but many nations are…

  16. Michael says:


    Does this mean you don’t like the other two points? 🙂

  17. Terry says:

    It’s like we are being weaned off of all we trusted in: political leaders, institutions, etc. Most conspiracy theories have a grain of truth in them and every news reality we see has a hint of conspiracy theory attached. I’m thinking of those AI robots that showed up at the UN to announce “we only want to help”. Were they sentient? If they are or aren’t, that should be the news story. Nothing, move on. And the UAP hearings this week – just empty claims intercut with grainy video we saw 3 years ago. Nothing is adding up.

  18. Michael says:


    Good observations.

    I see little twists in almost all the ‘news” reporting and the deception is intentionally thick in some.

    The wise Christian is weaning off all these things and is looking for kingdom not built with hands…

  19. Idahoan says:

    “But evil people and impostors will flourish.”
    “ Technology has enabled. deception to reach levels unthinkable just a few years ago…and I believe that it will be (and is being) used as a tool for the enemy to deceive the masses.”
    I heard about a church service created by artificial intelligence— with the idea that evil people in the end times like the Antichrist or false prophet may use this to deceive. I did a little searching and found a guy who asked an AI to write a sermon about possible use of AI in the end times. And it quickly wrote a well-done Biblically sound sermon. My take-away, beyond the obvious, is that the AI can do GOOD things, not just evil— and better than we can. Not only preachers but Christians in general are already redundant unless we have something it doesn’t. I suppose that must be the Holy Spirit in some way, or a whole variety of ways.

  20. pstrmike says:

    Thanks for this Michael. As you know, I grew up in a dispensational church, eventually became a part of and then planted a CC. After years of being firmly committed to a pre-trib timeframe, I became convinced that the Bible doe not give enough details on the end times to support such certainty. This was one of the reasons why I left CCA. As I continued to look at eschatology, I am less convinced the a pre-trib rapture makes sense.

    That being said, the echoes of over 50 years of pre-trib, end time focus still effects me. I can’t decide whether the current cultural expressions—both secular and the within the church—are indicators of the end, or cyclical expressions of embolden evils.

    Wisdom is in short supply today. Rather than asking God for wisdom, many within the church are still preoccupied with how they can get more people to attend their $ervice$. They have not noticed that the canary in the coal mine is sick, near death, nor do many of them seem to care.

    “If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. ” James 1:5

  21. Michael says:


    Technology is a gift from God…but all of God’s gifts are given to sinful creatures who use and disabuse them in ways that but help and harm human flourishing.

    Christians will never be redundant…because only humans can reflect and embody the love of Jesus…

  22. Michael says:


    Well said…and a prophetic word given, I think.
    We…especially those of us who teach…need to be praying for wisdom to discern the times…and those living in them.

  23. Michael says:

    I would actually encourage an end times focus in the church today and a vigorous rebuttal of the pre-trib mythology.

    Biblical eschatology demands a call to endurance and perseverance at the end of the age as evil is allowed to fully flower and the blood of the saints runs in the cities.

    We are called to witness, no matter the cost…and there will be a cost…until His appearing.

    The witness will be our lives as much as our words…our behaviors and obedience will be the demonstration of the Gospel to the world…and that is needed even if He tarries..

  24. Terry says:

    The wheat isn’t harvested before the tares, if one is looking for a rapture in that parable.

    Are you familiar with Fourth Turning Theory? Essentially, it’s that every 80-85 years we experience a crisis level upheaval. It is almost a generational rhythm that has to cycle through. Revolutionary War, Civil War, World War II. We seem to be right on schedule.

  25. Michael says:


    It’s a fascinating theory and it may well be what we’re seeing.

    If I’m wrong that what we are seeing is eschatological, living as if it is will still benefit us all.

  26. Miriam Wegemer says:

    Michael @ 9:00 am Yes, I liked them also :- (

  27. jtk says:

    I’m not saying you’re wrong, Michael, but I’ll say this:

    We Christians are the most prosperous, least persecuted Christians that have ever existed on earth! We really do have it good….

  28. jtk says:

    maybe I just followed your lead in being a contratrian….

  29. Michael says:


    I completely agree.
    However, I do not believe that this state will continue.

  30. Linn says:

    So, I still hold to a pre-trib rapture, but as long as a fellow Christian agrees Jesus is returning to set up his kingdom, I “get along.”

    What I think is more important is a perspective that I’ve heard several pastors with different end-time calendars preach: Live everyday as if Jesus will be here in a moment, but also take the long view and work hard in whatever ministry he gives you.

    It keeps me balanced (and I threw away my Hal Lindsay books years ago…).

  31. Jean says:

    “So, I still hold to a pre-trib rapture, but as long as a fellow Christian agrees Jesus is returning to set up his kingdom, I “get along.” ”


    What is Jesus returning to? A Christian-less earth, because the Christians were all raptured? Will Jesus set up his kingdom without his Christians?

    I don’t understand your expectation. Please explain it.

  32. Michael says:


    I don’t divide over eschatology and the counsel of the pastors is good.

    I have big (really big) problems with the doctrine and think it dangerous…but any comments I make on the doctrine are not intended as disrespectful to those who hold it.

    I have much respect for you personally and admire your faith walk.

  33. Linn says:


    I respect your site so much because you’re welcoming to all of us. There are some who dion’t see the teaching regarding the rapture as an easy escape hatch from suffering (I’m part of that group), but rather as an impetus to share the faith. Setting dates and interpreting every event as the key sign drives me nutty.

  34. Miriam Wegemer says:

    I am seeing signs of hostility to Christians in this nation…. Am I wrong> ? ?

  35. Michael says:


    We’re all one in Christ…

  36. Jean says:

    “I am seeing signs of hostility to Christians in this nation…. Am I wrong> ? ?”

    In my 61 years of living in this nation, there has never been a period of less religious liberty than Christians enjoy today.

    In the Supreme Court, Christian liberty issues are being decided constantly in their favor. There has never in my lifetime been a more Christian sympathetic Supreme Court than what we have today.

    There has never been more school choice and tax funding for Christian education.

    The Chosen is moving to network cable and is also on Netflix. The Chosen is unabashedly Christian. It is playing on Netflix, the most liberal streaming service.

    In the most liberal county in Wisconsin, we have an evangelical church start up opening in a public high school auditorium.

    The whole hostility charge is a made up crisis to scare people and fuel division.

    The real hostility should be directed at the wolves in sheep’s clothing who prey upon naive or ignorant Christians who trust them. They are the threat from within, who proclaim a false Christ.

  37. Michael says:


    There is some hostility over standing for righteous causes.
    There is more hostility over full throated endorsement of ungodly politicians for the purpose of acquiring power.

    When some support a cur like Trump, the hostility is earned…

  38. Miriam Wegemer says:

    thanks, Jean and Michael.. will ponder today

  39. Miriam Wegemer says:

    Jean, “The real hostility……” Prosperity Gospel?

  40. Jean says:


    Yours is a fair question. Thank your for permitting me the opportunity to expand my thought. I apologize, but it will be lengthy.

    For many today, the word “prosperity” conotes primarily financial wealth. That is certainly part of the meaning of “prosperity,” but I would like to broaden the definition to include, good health, good business dealings, good familial and neighborly relations, and overall happiness. As the plamist writes: “In all that he does, he prospers” (Ps. 1:3).

    The issue is, is “prosperity” according to the world’s judgment also “prosperity” in the eyes of God? I would say, biblicly, “no.”

    Worldly prosperity is not a sin per se, but it insights sin. Paul warns the wordly prosperous Christians in this way:

    “17 As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty [arrogant], nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. 18 They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, 19 thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.”

    Paul seems to be saying that worldly prosperity can tempt one to hava superiority complex. To look down on the less prosperous. One might ask if prosperity preachers today preach like Paul on the topic of wealth and its use in the hands of a Christian?

    With that in mind, someone might ask, “Even if not accurate, how could a prosperity gospel be considered as “hostile” to the Christian faith or the church?

    Let me respond to that question with a brief and incomplete answer.

    First, recall Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles. Was he not inflicted by a thorn in his side? We don’t know precisely what that thorn was, but we know this much from Paul: “We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things.” Does Paul here or anywhere in any of his letters sound like he is prospering from a worldly point of view? Of course not.

    And here’s the rub for Paul and for faithful preachers and churches today: They do not go after the “never heard of Jesus before” crowd, but they go after the churched. they go in to steal the flock of the faithful pastors.

    Take any church in America with a weekly worship of 1,000+, did that come from brand new converts, or did it come from sheep stealing? When you offer properity, does it not check all the boxes of one’s hopes for one’s life and family?

    Plain and simple, Jesus doesn’t promise wealth and health in this life. In fact, his Apostle Paul, who labored all throughout his ministry with a thorn in his side was denied healing 3 times. John the had his head cut off for preaching the kingdom of heaven. Jesus was crucified for being a compassionate Savior.

    Paul, John, Jesus, Huss, Tynsdale, and many others were all subject to violent hostility, not by pagans, but by the so called people of God.

    It is always hostility if the gospel one preaches would lesd one off the narrow path to life and on to the broad path of eternal destruction.

  41. Terry says:

    I’m currently reading through Paul’s letters, one chapter per day. I’m convinced he believed Jesus was returning in his lifetime. He was exhorting everyone to be ready for Christ’s appearing. It’s like imminency without a rapture.

    I see no downside to having that mindset, as long as you avoid the PreTrib pitfalls like setting dates and ID-ing the antichrist.

  42. Officerhoppy says:

    In reading Paul’s letter and Jesus’ final words to his disciples, I came to the same conclusion.

    That is why, as a CC pastor, I taught “always be ready”.

  43. Michael says:

    Paul did not teach imminence…on the contrary, he rebuked the church for not remembering his clear teaching in previous visits that the anti-Christ must come first.

    “Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him. Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us. Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.

    Don’t you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you?

    And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes. For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way. Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming.

    This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth.”
    (2 Thessalonians 2:1–12 NLT-SE)

    This is in agreement with both the prophet Daniel and John the seer…and both describe the hell on earth that will precede the Second Coming.

  44. Miriam Wegemer says:

    Thank you, Jean
    much food for thought…
    Jesus, himself, said that we’d have tribulation and I think, dunno, that our time as a Christian nation has ended….. sigh

  45. Miriam Wegemer says:

    Michael, ditto! ! !

  46. Michael says:


    We’ve never been a Christian nation, nor is such a thing possible.

    The outer veneer of decency has worn off and that is sad enough.

  47. Michael says:

    The passage I cited destroys the pre-trip Rapture doctrine all by itself.

    This is only important for one reason…that being that the church will be utterly unprepared for the events that will both precede and follow the coming of the man of sin.

  48. Josh says:

    Jean’s response on 7/29 at 7:45pm is … profound. Dang, I mean, that’s the actual correct answer. My goodness, paradigm shift for me. Thanks Jean!

    As far as “The End Times”, I suspect the obsession is to divert our minds from the truth that we are defintely living in the End Times. Not one of us is more than 90 years away from meeting our maker. 90 years is such a short time. We all spend most of those years acting like it will never will. It certainly will.

    It ill most not likely end for any of us with Jesus parting the clouds and bodily returning to earth. Most likely heart attack, cancer , or old age. But it will end.

  49. Michael says:

    Jean has spoken wisely.

    We as Christians overcome the world the same way our Master did…by sacrificial love and suffering.

    This ties in with the eschatological discussion as there is a time coming when we will be called to live this out at real cost.

    I am experiencing in my own family right now the strain that trials put on people who expect God to smooth the paths and intervene in our difficulties…indeed, I’m feeling that strain myself as the trials compound.

    “Dear friends, don’t be surprised at the fiery trials you are going through, as if something strange were happening to you.”
    (1 Peter 4:12 NLT-SE)

  50. Miriam Wegemer says:

    1 Peter 4::12 AMEN – that pretty much says it alll

  51. Josh says:

    I’m glad that 1 Peter 4:12 accurately describes life…but it doesn’t make it suck any less.

  52. Michael says:


    It sucks hard.
    I’ve been dependent on my godson to be my legs as I can only walk a few feet at a time.
    He broke his foot in two places last night.
    Now, neither one of us can walk much.
    His grandmother and my mother are both in some stage of dying and his mom is trying to care for all of us while in chronic pain.
    I’m in constant , unrelenting pain and now I’m also physically addicted to two painkillers that aren’t working well from extended use.
    One of them put me in the ER last week.

    I put the question to Duane…”where is God in all this’?
    His answer , as expected, was right to the point.

    In the Incarnation He took on all of our humanity…so He is here…suffering with us.

    I cling to Jesus…and cling to hope.

  53. Officerhoppy says:

    I’m still looking for the return of Christ regardless of what theological position one holds. I think that may be what Paul wanted Christians to believe—in his day, or, in ours, or sometime in the future.

    And I want to be found laboring for the kingdom when he does return.

  54. Michael says:

    We all should be looking for His return…but with wisdom.

    Paul’s hearers would have been deeply familiar with the book of Daniel and would have understood that there would be “great tribulation” for them when the man of sin is revealed…before the coming of the Lord to crush all evil.

    We are not prepared to handle even the prospect of such is always a great surprise to us when it comes and a place of deep discouragement when our prayers for relief seem to go unanswered.

    This is not just another theological position…this is preparation for what is to come with understanding.

  55. Miriam Wegemer says:

    I have a book (my late husband’s) that makes a very good case for the Church goinng through the first half of the tribulation….. God give us strength ! ! !

  56. Miriam Wegemer says:

    Michael, “Cling to Jesus, cling to hope.” AMEN

  57. Josh says:

    Surely what we are dealing with right now is tribulation enough.

    In the since that Jesus returning might alleviate human suffering, I’m all for it.

    If suffering has to increase before he can come back, please wait on me and my descendants to die off. Thanks!

  58. Michael says:


    The call throughout the NT and especially in Revelation is a call to endurance and perseverance…as I tell my church…you don’t endure a good time.

  59. Michael says:


    I obviously don’t know the timing of all of this, but suffering will increase exponentially before His return.

    For reasons known only to God, evil must be allowed to fully flower before God eliminates it entirely…and the enemy of our souls will be mad with hatred for God’s people.

    I do know that I have almost an obsession to teach my younger friends and family what is coming.

    What is coming after all of that is a new heavens and new earth where pain and sorrow have no place…we will all be healed…evil will be no more and death shall be banished. I’m tearing up just thinking about it…we’re all pretty tired…

  60. Josh says:

    “suffering will increase exponentially before His return.”

    If that must be, I pray he waits for many, many more centuries.

  61. Michael says:

    A rejection of the doctrine of personal suffering for the kingdom is a rejection of the suffering Savior.

    My whole body is shaking from the pain as I write this…and I pray for it to stop and for healing…but I know He suffers with me and for me.

    I do not want to suffer more…but if my suffering somehow hastens the coming of the kingdom of God in its fullness, then I will suffer all the more.

    I do not want my loved ones to suffer at all…but I desperately want them to be with me in a renewed earth for eternity.

    If human history is wrapping up, there is no price too high to bring back the King…

  62. Josh says:

    You have suffered, and are suffering greatly. This is true. I am glad that you are comforted through Jesus’ suffering.

    Everything we do, though, is to alleviate suffering. Pain medication, the things we vote for, even working my job so that I can afford a slightly easier life and so that my kids can eat everyday…all to avoid suffering. I think this is the correct path. I pray we’ve misunderstood and that God can return without having to kill a bunch a people. Pie in the sky, I know, but I do believe it is the better story.

  63. Michael says:


    I’m going to go out on a limb here and folks can do with it what they will.

    I believe I’m speaking prophetically to the whole church.

    We should do all we can to alleviate human suffering.

    God will not “kill a bunch of people”…the enemy surely will.

    Yours is a nice story, but it’s a lie…we have to prepare emotionally and spiritually…and pray for His mercy on ourselves and loved ones.

  64. Terry says:

    Michael – Starting with Romans, I’m up to Philippians. Thanks for reminding me about 2 Thessalonians, and I mean that. A passage I read this morning from Philippians, chapter 1:
    “I thank my God every time I remember you. In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

    I wasn’t discounting tribulation (or even The Great Tribulation) but simply struck with Paul’s assumption that his intended audience would experience Christ’s return. Within one’s lifetime is closer to imminence than anything I’ve considered in over 10 years

  65. Josh says:

    “ We should do all we can to alleviate human suffering.”
    Knowing that we are fighting God’s plan in the process?
    “ God will not “kill a bunch of people”…the enemy surely will.”
    Who signs off on that? Where does the buck stop?
    “ Yours is a nice story, but it’s a lie…”
    We don’t know that because it hasn’t happened. I’m still going to hope your interpretation is wrong, and that we can make things better on earth. A fool’s errand, I’m sure, but I just don’t see the point in fatalism

  66. Michael says:


    I think that thread runs all the way through the NT.
    I would define it as expectation, not imminence…and that expectation carried well into the 16th century…Luther believed the Lord was coming in his time.

    I very much appreciate how you discuss these matters…it’s refreshing and enjoyable.

  67. Michael says:


    We are called to love our neighbors as ourselves…to seek justice and righteousness and act in mercy.
    None of this is outside of the plan of God to redeem and recreate His good creation.

    One one hand, you want God to stop evil…but you demand it be done bloodlessly and neatly.

    For the life of me , I don’t understand this.

    There is evil in this world…and evil people.
    If God is to allow any measure of human autonomy, those people are included in the deal.

    He sent His Son to provide forgiveness for evil and offers to all who choose to repent fellowship with Him.

    However…there are people who hate God, and hate His people.
    They want bloodshed.

    The buck stops with God bleeding on a cross, gasping for air so He can pronounce forgiveness.

    If I’m wrong every generation to come will deal with increasingly malevolent evil until life itself will be a curse.
    If I’m right, after the carnage brought by evil…heaven and earth will be one place…and that is the blessed hope.

  68. Michael says:

    Do I want to live through this time I speak of?

    Hell, no.

    Do I want my godson or loved ones to endure it?

    Hell no, a hundred times.

    However, as I look at the world today and see the incredible amount of deceit and deception and the availability of tools to deceive even more, I understand that all the Bible speaks of is not only possible, but already practiced.

    I mourn over the division that has split countries, churches, and families…the lack of love that used to be the glue that held us together.

    I note that in this country and many others around the world that authoritarianism is being embraced…fascism will follow….this is the spirit of anti-Christ among us…a dry run for the real thing.

    I watched someone over the weekend who used to be closer than a brother to me…he is a pastor and has embraced Christian nationalism…and was shuttling people from his church to a Sean Feucht grift bonanza.

    No discernment…he’s trying to Make America Great Again instead of strengthening his people with truth.

    The system is collapsing…how long that will take, I do not know.

    I want my godsons to have great, safe and fulfilling lives…that is my prayer.

    I want God to restore all Josh has lost and for him to know joy again.

    But I have to tell what I’ve seen.
    No choice in the matter.

  69. Officerhoppy says:

    You said, “ He sent His Son to provide forgiveness for evil and offers to all who choose to repent fellowship with Him.”

    Your comment got me to thinking. Why did it have to be God’s Son who suffered on the cross? What did it have to be a human?

    Any idea behind God’s reasoning?

    For years, animal sacrifices delayed God’s wrath on Jews, why did it have to human blood as the “once for all sacrifice”?

    Appreciate yours or anyone’s input

  70. Michael says:


    That’s more complex than I have time for at the moment .

    Animal sacrifices had to be repeated…the death of Christ was a once for all gift.

    We have to examine the Incarnation to speak of all that God was doing through Jesus…understanding that God was actually recreating humanity and undoing the sin of Adam in Christ as He took on all human sin, suffering and death on the cross and announced His victory over the powers by resurrection.

    There’s so much more to unpack, but I’m having some issues at the moment…

  71. Michael says:

    “Now when it says “all things,” it means nothing is left out. But we have not yet seen all things put under their authority. What we do see is Jesus, who for a little while was given a position “a little lower than the angels”; and because he suffered death for us, he is now “crowned with glory and honor.” Yes, by God’s grace, Jesus tasted death for everyone. God, for whom and through whom everything was made, chose to bring many children into glory. And it was only right that he should make Jesus, through his suffering, a perfect leader, fit to bring them into their salvation.

    So now Jesus and the ones he makes holy have the same Father. That is why Jesus is not ashamed to call them his brothers and sisters.
    For he said to God, “I will proclaim your name to my brothers and sisters. I will praise you among your assembled people.”

    He also said, “I will put my trust in him,” that is, “I and the children God has given me.”

    Because God’s children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had the power of death. Only in this way could he set free all who have lived their lives as slaves to the fear of dying.

    We also know that the Son did not come to help angels; he came to help the descendants of Abraham. Therefore, it was necessary for him to be made in every respect like us, his brothers and sisters, so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people. Since he himself has gone through suffering and testing, he is able to help us when we are being tested.”
    (Hebrews 2:8–18 NLT-SE)

  72. Michael says:

    “When we were utterly helpless, Christ came at just the right time and died for us sinners. Now, most people would not be willing to die for an upright person, though someone might perhaps be willing to die for a person who is especially good. But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners. And since we have been made right in God’s sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God’s condemnation. For since our friendship with God was restored by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be saved through the life of his Son. So now we can rejoice in our wonderful new relationship with God because our Lord Jesus Christ has made us friends of God.”
    (Romans 5:6–11 NLT-SE)

  73. Josh says:

    I was always told that God is in control. If that is so, he has a lot to answer for.

    I am coming fathom that God is not in control in the way I was always taught.

  74. Michael says:

    ‘I am coming fathom that God is not in control in the way I was always taught.”

    Me too…it’s a lot more complex than just asserting sovereignty.

    I’m not sure it’s actually fully knowable…

  75. Josh says:

    Thank you for that Michael. It’s reaffirming that I’m not completely crazy.

  76. Josh says:

    I should have said reassuring

  77. Michael says:


    I spent years in the absolute sovereignty camp because it was a neat package…but it wasn’t true.

    All I really know is that if you want to see God, look at Jesus…that’s all I’ve got.

  78. William Alan Eastwood says:

    Clint Eastwood died – it’s definitely the end times.

  79. Alan says:

    Except it’s not true. Just like apocalyptic preaching.

  80. Josh says:

    Pee Wee Herman did die.

  81. Jerod says:

    “I would suggest (and I teach) that sharing the Gospel begins in your own home…not just by giving family members spiritual information, but by living out a cruciform life in front of them”.

    Good advice.

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