Calvin’s Corner

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5 Responses

  1. Babylon's Dread says:

    Not sure why Phil would say there is no model for restoration to a position when we have the obvious restoration of Peter to his position. He boasted of his fidelity to Christ. He abandoned and denied Jesus when the heat was on. He was exposed for his failure and everyone knew it. Then Jesus directly, patiently and rather quickly restored him.

    So there is a very clear model that seems rather obvious.

    You guys are settling that the position is lost. I agree that it is lost for the time being. I do not agree that the pastor cannot be restored positionally as he is once again proven to be qualified.

    I won’t fight about it because my life direction on the matter is set.

  2. Michael says:


    Would you equate Peter’s failure with sexual failure?

    I’m not looking for a fight, but a model…

  3. Babylon's Dread says:


    It certainly is a different kind of failure, but Peter had been warned about such denial. He had been taught about the death and resurrection. He had been prepared as much as one could be. Certainly John and the women did not repeat Peter’s sin.

    Sexual sin is different for sure. It is the violation of the one flesh union, your own and that of the other person. It is a form of idolatry.

    I would certainly say the stakes of Peter’s sin are just as high the nature is different but I am interested in what you are getting at with this.

  4. Michael says:


    There are leaders who sin sexually and against the family and are not repentant.

    That is who we use as a model for church discipline.

    There are others who are crushed by their sins, yet we deal with them the same way.

    This cannot be biblical.

    I am convinced that sin abounds because it is not safe to confess before discovery…maybe even before catastrophic fall.

    We have a scorched earth policy…and I’m not sure that is what was intended by God.

    I…am wrestling.

  5. Babylon's Dread says:


    I agree, the unrepentant such as Todd Bentley get no restoration with me. Bentley chose his girlfriend and running from immigration policies for a year before entering a whitewashed restoration. That is not repentance.

    The repentant who restore the family first and are restored by their family get much grace with me. Haggard went through hell, much counseling, a lengthy exile and much public humiliation and humility seeking a restoration that was not offered.

    There is a world of difference and both men GOT caught before their mea culpa.

    The Haggard incident is clouded by the fact that no one ever noticed that the church was treated as an asset and an acquisition. Anyway that is nothing I want to parse too deeply.

    My friend who was a pastor in England went through 7 years of exile from ministry and of serious restoration process. He restored his own family but again was not restored by his own church. The local church that suffers the offense is not good at this.

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