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16 Responses

  1. Corby says:

    “Chuck Smith disbanded the enforcement arm of Calvary Chapel and refused to deal with discipline issues for this very reason.” Yup. And if we are going to play the Chuck card, I can’t recall an instance where Chuck said, from the top down, “Do not have (blank) ministry at your church.” I’m not saying it never happened, I just can’t recall an instance, so it was rare if at all. This move by Don oversteps for sure and goes beyond what Chuck every wanted to happen even with CCA.

    Having said that, I’m sure there are as many who “yes and amen” this kind of expression of authority in that branch of the movement as there are who don’t like it. They want that kind of authority in place. They endowed that kind of authority on Chuck whether he wanted it or not.

    At this point, it is a baseless accusation only because nothing specific has been offered. I don’t know anything one way or the other and have no dog in the fight other than how it is being handled. I will say that this seems like the least CC thing so far to come from the splt.

  2. Michael says:

    Some will like the authoritarianism and refuse to question it…until they end up in the gun sights…

  3. Tobe says:

    The Godfather was not getting enough “prote$tia” for the cca endorsements…

    “It’s not personal Sonny. It’s strictly business”

  4. Tobe says:


    pay to play

  5. pstrmike says:

    Not “Chuck Smith” enough. Wow. What does that even mean? Too Pentecostal (wouldn’t surprise me), too Baptist, not pre-trib, not submitting to their “authority,” what?

    I wonder how many others within the CCA could be deemed not “Chuck” enough? Is this a purging of the ranks, or a personal vendetta?

  6. BrianD says:

    “Not Chuck Smith enough”. This deserves some light-hearted sarcasm.

    The Rozells, as far as I know, never had their own Lonnie Frisbee to create havoc and eventually leave for other ministerial pastures.

    Do you know how long it took Chuck Smith to create all those ‘Through The Bible C-blank thousand’ series? The Rozells might be in heaven by the time they get to round two.

    I’m certain the CCA has first tabs on ‘Real Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa’ and ‘True Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa’, so church planting there is probably out. Maybe they could plant ‘Calvary Chapel Actually In Costa Mesa’ (The CCA probably has dibs on The DoveTM, too).

    You could expect Mike Rozell to shave the top of his head and start wearing Hawaiian shirts…there’s no way on Earth or in Heaven you’ll ever get Pam Rozell to do the same 🙂

  7. Jtk says:

    Can you walk me through the legal liability of either situation?

    How would Chuck or CCA ever be responsible legally?
    What would they be responsible for?

  8. Michael says:


    By acting as a central control the CCA board accepted agency for the entire group. So, if some pastor in the backwaters does something that results in a lawsuit the board and it’s directors are liable.
    Smith had to quietly settle a number of cases until he decentralized CC.

  9. A Calvary Chapel Pastor says:

    The very fact that many CCA leaders are still using the deceased Chuck Smith as the plum line and/or the measurement for squaring who’s “in” and who should be “out” (apparently as in the case of PFM) is a bright shining sure tail sign that CCA leaders have drifted from the gospel and instead inserted the intentions of a mere (dead) man.
    – a Calvary Chapel Pastor

  10. pstrmike says:

    a CC Pastor

    I understand your critique, it’s valid to some degree. However, the doctrinal beliefs of Chuck Smith have always been the criterion for who is in and who is out in Calvary Chapel. I think most within in CCA, at least their leaders, would say that Smith’s doctrinal beliefs embody the gospel, that is, they accepted his doctrine as that expression. For them, Smith’s doctrine is the gospel.

    Brodersen opened up fellowship and the acceptance of a few different doctrinal perspectives with creation of CGN. I think it was a healthy move, and I appreciated his courage and willingness to create a place where we could fellowship around essentials, common ministry objectives, and give some liberty and grace to those who believe differently regarding non-essentials. That, for me, is the gospel. Peace.

  11. Corby says:

    This quote from an unnamed pastor in India always rings in my head when I see people site Chuck as their authority.

    “I’ve been studying the movements of God. Do you know how movements start? A movement starts because the founder of the movement truly knows Jesus. Do you know how movements die? It’s when the followers only know the founder. They don’t have a direct relationship with Jesus. They seem to relate to Jesus vicariously through the founder. ”

    I’m not calling anyone’s salvation into question, but there is some truth regarding the birth and death of movements.

  12. Michael says:


    That was good stuff…I have a followup today…

  13. Not an attorney says:

    It be interesting to know if any of the Mud Man” burger sites/trucks had any employees who worked within California’s border. If so I would be very concerned if I were an owner or director of this operation.

    There is an obscure California labor law called the Private attorney General Act of 2004 aka PAGA. This law was originally designed to protect employees in the workplace by righting workplace wrongs but unfortunately like everything else in California, this law has been perverted and is now used as a legal extortion tool to extract huge settlement sums from businesses. This PAGA Law is able to bypass arbitration agreements and thus circumvent class certification requirements. This law essentially delegates state power to private CA attorneys allowing them to make unlimited class discovery and enforce even the most technical of labor code violations. There is no law like this anywhere else in the US, just in California. On paper this law protects any employee who worked within California’s borders even if their employer is based out of state. All it takes is one so called “aggrieved employee” to file this lawsuit with the exposure for huge civil penalties for even relatively minor violations.

    Here is a gist of how this PAGA law works.

    The big question is if any of the Mobile MudMan truck employees/interns worked even a portion of their time in California there could be huge exposure liability for the pockets of folks behind MUdMan operation even if they are based in MT.. If I were an owner or shareholder of MudMan I’d be very concerned because owners/directors can also be held personally liable for any of these labor violations if the employing entity doesn’t have the financial wirewithal to pay the huge settlement amounts. Now would be a good time to seek legal counsel before a shark attorney tries to recruit a disgruntled former or current MudMan employee. Ironically, Orange County and So. Cal in particular are full of shark attorneys looking for their next juicy opportunity to extract some serious settlement money. If I were an owner, I’d be reaching out to any of my current of former employees before these shark Trial Lawyers entice the employees with promises of huge money

  14. Michael says:

    not an attorney,

    Really good comment.
    Not only have they operated in CA, they have incorporated there…

  15. Not an attorney says:


    If I could have done it all over again I would have studied to become an employment attorney in California. I’d have a license to steal and could probably retire on this one lawsuit. Ca Ching Ca Ching$$$

  16. Former Ignite Intern says:

    Ha, I wish I would’ve come across this before your investigation began. I would’ve been more than willing to share with you my experience as a former intern and share with you the experiences of at least four others that had been seriously damaged.
    I am not an embittered, backslidden believer who couldn’t take spiritual rebuke from an authority. I was a verbally, psychologically, and spiritually abused good-hearted sheep that has still been trying to recover from a traumatic rebuke in Montana (they call these “strong fellowships” from Mike Rozell) while part of the Ignite program.
    I was not the first, and I knew I would not be the last. I affirm it’s a cult.

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