Things I Think…
1. Greg Laurie was out stumping with Trump over the weekend, urging voters to “vote biblically”. In reality, there is no “biblical” mandate for either candidate, let alone a thrice married convicted felon. Such proclamations do put asses in the seats and money in the bank, though…and that is what is needful for the likes of Laurie…
2. The only way such manipulation works is if you keep the people you teach biblically illiterate, while they think they are the champions of “the Word’…this sleight of hand is wildly effective…
3. Why are so many religious leaders attracted to a demagogue like Trump? It takes one to appreciate one…
4. Raul Ries doesn’t want you listening to my version of the Calvary Chapel split…
Evidently, the ancient Calvary Chapel Association board is still trying to prove that they are the legitimate heirs of Calvary Chapel… I’m still looking for someone who actually gives a damn…
5. Literacy, biblical and otherwise, is a huge concern to me. I wonder to what degree podcasts and audiobooks can fulfill the same function as reading…
6. I’m gravely concerned about the future no matter who wins the next election…because all the underlying foundations of our society have been badly eroded and there isn’t anyone around to deal with that and rebuild the walls…
7. I’ve had that old familiar pit in my gut and the stress that comes with writing about CC scandals since I posted the Clive Welsh story…I’m too old to be doing that sort of work now, but I guess I’ll go out with my boots on…I was reminded again of what was going to be the first line of the book I wanted to write…”everyone knew, nobody dared speak”…
8. The number of alleged Christians who knew that there may be issues with Welsh is staggering…yet none of them in any leadership capacity were willing to speak up to protect innocent young people…but they sure as hell warned everyone about the drag queens none of them were ever likely to encounter…maybe now some will repent and come forward…but I’m not holding my breath…
9. It is a damnable shame on the church that secular lawyers have to be the ones to try to bring righteousness to bear…on the church…
10. Giving thanks today that our Lord is “El Roi”…the God who sees…He has seen all I have seen…and someday all will be made right…
6. Me, too.
10. Amen!
Raul Ries, how to say you are an outright idolatrous fool without saying you are an outright idolatrous fool. What a waste of my life watching that filthy crap.
His Vice President, Secretary of Defense, Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, National Security Adviser, and numerous other White House Staff will not support his candidacy. Convicted of sexual assault, improper use of money to silence a porn star, former CFO in prison. “Vote biblically”, what does mean Greg?
As for all the CC stuff, it certainly isn’t true that no-one tried to do anything. Trust me. But CC and Chuck were incredibly complicated and simple explanations always miss the mark. Sometimes everyone on both sides is telling the truth as they know it, but there are always things they either don’t know or are leaving out. I’ve been involved at CC for well over 50 years. It has been amazing beyond words and awful beyond description- often simultaneously. 😢
#1-3 I just finished my write-in ballot and I had no problem voting for Harris. Is she my favorite? No…but I am voting for good governance vs chaos. Plus, I don’t trust anyone who still denies the results of an election five years after it happened and says he will be “dictator for a day” and wants to rid the nation of the “enemies within” (those who refuse to vote for him). He acts like he has the divine right of kings, and I find that all very scary. I still have not forgiven Trump for 9/11, and I am sure he will try something again if he doesn’t win office.
History records many instances of what happens to “divine right of kings” in places like France and elsewhere. Likewise in countries with “Presidents for Life”…. and their followers. Think Il Duce and his Milizia Volontaria per la Sicurezza Nazionale (aka Camicie Nere). Greg Laurie and Raul Ries and others would be wise to remember that.
R’as al Ghul @6:53 am,
Those guys (Laurie et al) don’t want a democracy, they want a dictatorship.
I tried to watch the video, but after 10 minutes of them tip-toeing around Chuck Smith’s granddaughter’s video, I decided to look up and watch that video instead. As far as I can tell she agrees with them 100%. I don’t have an hour right now to finish the above video, but I’ve seen enough to write the following:
Just minutes into the Ries video, the guest pastor says “and certainly we were never a denomination”. This is how you now you’ve entered a delusional world. Moving on from that, between this video and the granddaughter’s video, all three parties are competing for who can place the biggest halo on Chuck Smith’s head. He was at least as humble as Moses, that’s for certain. And what matters most is doing everything exactly the same way Chuck Smith did it, from now on and into eternity. They should make a WWCD bracelet.
So CC people seem to have a choice between the old guard, who seem insular and bent on preserving a very specific system that in no ways shall ever remotely be a denomination, and the “new” guard that was fine with platforming mega-church pastors and other “progressives”.
Somehow, the most humble pastor who ever lived has now gone through a kind of apotheosis, and is the spiritual father of two “denominations” that I have no desire to be a part of.
Thanks Dave.
Some observations from the outer orbit. I first attended CCCM during the tent days. That, and $2.90 gets me a small coffee these days. Incredibly complicated is what has been the consistent message that others have told me over the years.
It became rather obvious to me that Chuck had more than one “inner circle” and it was comprised of many different men. That makes a lot of sense for many different reasons.
Most communication from board members, even when they try to be gracious, reveal a hierarchical structure, that even if unintentional, sends a message of privilege, power, and suggests the listener needs to fall in line with in order to be faithful. An argument that is centered around “this is the way Chuck wanted it to be “ is, in my not so humble opinion, a poor argument. Look unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith……
Peace
I’m all for hierarchies (bishops, etc.) as long as everyone knows who’s who and what their place in the hierarchy is.
I remember my old CC days being part of, what I thought, was the inner circle of women’s ministry. The plan was for us inner circle ladies to meet half an hour before the outer circle ladies were allowed to attend. So I’d go to “my” meeting only to discover that there were several women who had been there half an hour earlier, determining the entire direction of the ministry.
When the regular ladies came to “their” meeting, thinking they were going to help choose the things we were going to do for the next year, they discovered it had already been decided. And any woman who objected might just find herself reduced to tears.
I was a guilty participant in all this and I am truly sorry for the women I hurt by pretending I was a mid-level bigshot.
I hate women’s ministries. My experience with them was uniformly awful. (Our parish has a sisterhood and all we do is prepare food and tidy up. It is wonderful.)
So this is just a glimpse of a very small ministry in a small church. I can only imagine how things go in a serious ministry in a large church.
As a conservative Christian, I am concerned that this website seems to engage in rumormongering and gossip. Scripture warns us against this. Proverbs 16:28 says, “A perverse person stirs up conflict, and a gossip separates close friends.” Ephesians 4:29 reminds us to speak in ways that build up others: “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs.”
Matthew 18:15-17 teaches that if someone sins, we are to confront them privately first. Only if they refuse to repent should it be brought before others. Public criticism like this is not in line with that principle.
We need to avoid divisive talk. Titus 3:10 says, “Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.” Let’s ensure we handle disagreements in a way that reflects biblical principles.
Scott,
‘As a conservative Christian, I am concerned that this website seems to engage in rumormongering and gossip”
What is a “conservative”Christian?
Give examples of rumormongering and gossip…or shut your nasty mouth.
His Vice President, Secretary of Defense, Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff, National Security Adviser, and numerous other White House Staff will not support his candidacy. Convicted of sexual assault, improper use of money to silence a porn star, former CFO in prison.
Scott,
Those are facts!
Scott,
“Conservative Christian” used to mean theological conservative.
Today it often means “political reactionary.”
Which is it for you?
As a Conservative Christian, I get concerned when the autonomous board of Costa Mesa, in following their convictions to the Lord’s leading, is not respected (even if you disagree with them) by the decision to have Brodersen pastor the church.
As a Conservative Christian, I am offended that a well known pastor would appear at a Trump rally, and tell everyone to vote biblically, implying, of course, a vote for the autocrat Trump.
#youknowbetter
This is what this site and its owner has become or always was:
“…they discovered it had already been decided. And any woman who objected might just find herself reduced to tears.”
***
“Scott,
“Conservative Christian” used to mean theological conservative.
Today it often means “political reactionary.”
Which is it for you?”
***
R’as al Ghul @6:53 am,
Those guys (Laurie et al) don’t want a democracy, they want a dictatorship.
***
“He acts like he has the divine right of kings, and I find that all very scary. I still have not forgiven Trump for 9/11, and I am sure he will try something again if he doesn’t win office.”
***
“…or shut your nasty mouth.”
TH,
‘This is what this site and its owner has become or always was:”
and the problem with that is?
Here’s the problem…you see everything through the lens of partisan politics…which is a gross defilement of the faith once delivered.
Repent…
“Here’s the problem…you see everything through the lens of partisan politics…which is a gross defilement of the faith once delivered.
Repent…”
Michael, you sir are demented and out of line for even implying such a thing.
However, you must have been looking in the mirror when you wrote this.
You are forgiven.
TH,
Demented is a condition that can cause binary thinking…like if you’re against one party, you’re automatically for the other…I do not suffer from such a delusion.
If you are coherent enough to actually detail what you think all those clips you posted mean about the site and the owner, feel free to state your case…otherwise, you simply have made some vague statement of discontent that would indicate you are offended because I oppose Trump and Trumpism and the defilement of the Christian faith by him and his followers.
“…I oppose Trump and Trumpism and the defilement of the Christian faith by him and his followers.”
If this was what your intent really was, you would stop (or never have begun) the name calling, un-called for anger and “nastiness” you show and continually show in your posts and allow in your disciples.
You bring more toxicity and divisiveness into the “conversation” than you bring direction and civility. (It doesn’t really matter what the subject is BTW)
You want coherent (a more subtle form of name calling) there you go.
TH,
Trying to figure out if you’re a Calvary Chapel defender or a Trumper…in any case if the site offends you, there is a magical device connected to your computer that will whisk you away from such impurity…
“Trying to figure out if you’re a Calvary Chapel defender or a Trumper…”
It’s about neither.
If this is how you approach everything, everything is either one thing or another, black or white, well…
As you always eventually point out, it is your web site and your mission.
I hope you find contentment through it all.
TH,
I have cats…I’m quite content.
TH
I’ve read your comments several times and tried to decipher your point.
I teach a U.S. Government class to 28 high school students and try my best to challenge their apathy. I told them this morning that I don’t care what position they take on what is happening in our country, just be informed and take one!
Unless I am missing something, you refuse to take a position of your own but challenge those who take one.
” everything is either one thing or another, black or white, well…” Fence sitters trouble me.
Why does it seem there has been an uptick in the attack against Costa Mesa/Broderson? It seems like that was fought over several years ago and everyone has sort of retreated to their own corners to do their own thing. CCA has continued the Calvary Way and Brian has minded his own business and done his thing. All of a sudden it seems like a bunch of shots across the bow from the CCA side. Is something brewing?
Chris,
I no longer have my finger on the Calvary pulse as in days of old…but I would guess that this dispute will continue until the parties actually die. Calvary Costa Mesa still has assets…and the pursuit of those assets are probably in the fore of what is happening.
“Fence sitters trouble me.”
Unless you’re at a rodeo. #cowboyup
Hi TH and Scott,
Was my post about my experience in women’s ministries gossip? Maybe so. It happened 25 years ago and I didn’t mention names or places, although those who know me might recognize the people.
But here I am, 25+ years later and I’m still bugged by some of the things that happened at that church so maybe I should just get over it, I think. So thank you for the nudge in the right direction.
My point was that I like hierarchies where everyone knows their place in the hierarchy. Vague systems where people rise to the top and assume some kind of authority, as I did, only causes resentment and confusion.
All to say, I see your point. I’ve not been posting on this blog regularly for a while but for some reason I felt I just had to jump in and throw shade on my old church.
It is a sad day when someone quotes Scripture and is told to shut his nasty mouth.
Xenia,
It’s a sad day when someone decides to weaponize random Scriptures out of context for the sole purpose of denigrating someone else.
It’s not going to be allowed here…never has been.
Xenia,
Your experience in that church has been replicated endless over that entire denomination…and others.
Making cogent observations about how these places work is not gossip…
After i posted it I felt some guilt. When the brother pointed it out to me I realized he was right.
I think we have to discern between what is gossip and when it is justice crying from the rooftops.
#hewhohasanear
Michael,
I can’t get into details, but there will be a lot more attention placed on the Clive Welsh (not Welch) story in the near future. And the real question is not “How could this have happened,” but “How could it NOT have?” This kind of abuse is not only possible but likely when you follow the “Moses Model” and run your church like an unaccountable private fiefdom.
JJS,
Agreed…hoping to hear of justice done soon…
This Website should change the name to the Arm chair Preacher! Stop your whining and pray we are all on the same team.
JR,
What a profound comment.
Profoundly stupid.
We’re not all on the same team.
Wow, what a profoundly insightful comment! Oh wait, I meant profoundly stupid. It’s always fascinating when people feel the need to criticize, yet contribute nothing meaningful. It’s almost as if you think I’m here to take your critique to heart, but trust me, I’ve canceled more irrelevant opinions today than you’ve had decent thoughts in a lifetime. So, congrats on making it to the “don’t care” pile!
JR,
I understand that your interest here is centered on what I wrote about Calvary Chapel.
What I have contributed is the truth about these matters…something that has run from the people named.
I’m going to serve you by making sure that there is no reason for you to comment here…as no one will ever see them if you try.
Maranatha. 🙂
Good move, Michael.
Well – There is a significant difference between “I think” and “I know” ! I have been thinking that you are on the wrong side of things as they are and ought to be but now I am sure and I KNOW that you are a viper in the church and you are to be avoided. Jesus said of himself that he was lowly and humble of heart!
You sir are neither . Instead of bringing together you arrogantly judge and hold yourself high – watch out for the fall !
Good riddance Michael!
Cal,
No one has refuted me yet…you didn’t even try.
This has been going on for over a decade and I detailed the truth about the split BEFORE it happened and after.
Have a nice day, Cal…look out for snakes.
I have noticed an uptick of online discernment minus three’s fighting against each other; squabbling over differences in who they attack or support and their interpretation of scripture. They accuse one or the other of this or that and assume that someone is in error because of what they happened to say once or who they associated with.
Are they trying to draw attention to themselves? Where are we to draw the line? By whatever side we appear to be on? I’m sure everyone is in error somewhere compared to the Truth in God the Son.
I hereby reject anyone else’s private interpretation as unreliable and subjective.
Seems like we all have a ways to go and ultimately God will decide.
Praying for us all and letting Him sort it out.
“I hereby reject anyone else’s private interpretation as unreliable and subjective.”
So which schism do you accept as accurate and reliable enough follow and live your life after?
You do realize that choosing any particular schism is done by a personal private determination of what is reliable and applicable. If so, one must accept what is recorded about His ministry is accurate and not influenced by the life experiences and cultures of the writers.
When anyone asks me who will get to heaven in the next life my best answer is this, “I don’t get to decide, what I do get to decide is how I am going to live this life.”
When one blesses and thanks God for the food they eat, did it ever occur to them someone else grew that food, transported it, stacked it, sold it to them… Maybe we should bless God for all of them and ask God to bless them for their hard work.
Did we forget that this is the life we live in, and God gave us?
Bless Him for life!
TH The exact reason that people start blogs is to support their own opinions and content-at least that’s what I’ve always thought. Those who disagree get to participate at the owner’s discretion. I comment on a couple of blogs where my opinions are different (sometimes), but I come in with a question or an opinion that is pertinent to the topic, not random comments about “why are you posting” or “you shouldn’t be posting” or “just take this blog down.” Responsible participation is different than random potshots taken at the subject or blog owner.
I have been privileged to participate at PP, although I had to go way back and read a lot of stuff about CC as, other than listening to the music, I was never a part of it. However, some of the content has applied to other churches I have been in, and I do comment, when applicable. I appreciate Michael’s insight on cats and politics, so I also comment.
Be a responsible commentator. You can learn a lot here.