Charlie Kirk Assassinated
Charlie Kirk, the conservative founder and president of Turning Point USA, said during an organizational event on Wednesday that gun deaths in exchange for the preservation of Second Amendment rights is part of America’s reality.
“I think it’s worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational. Nobody talks like this. They live in a complete alternate universe.”
Today , Kirk was shot during an appearance at a Utah college.
At the same time, yet another school shooting happened in Colorado.
Now, Charlie Kirk has been pronounced dead.
We’ve lost our souls and our identities as Americans…the gun has taken over the place of the word in settling differences.
I loathed what Kirk did to faith and completely disagreed with his politics…but this was not the way.
I grieve for his wife and kids…and I grieve for what is coming.
We have to be about better things…I wonder if we remember how…
Tragically sad. I share your same concerns , Michael.
The quote you share from Kirk is accurate but was made in 2023 about a week after the Nashville area school shooting.
Tragic…
“Any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind” John Donne
Such a waste, all the way around. One more martyr for the cause, and one more person to loathe (if they catch the shooter). I’m a strong proponent of gun control because there are idiots who will use them to kill people on all sides.
another senseless shooting/murder that devastates families and erodes our national values. May his family find strength and peace in a loving Savior.
This is so tragic. Up to now, I was completely unfamiliar with him, other than hearing his name. The idea of eliminating someone with whom you disagree politically is abhorrent, it solves nothing, it only intensifies the divide. I have a feeling that he will become, in the eyes of many Christians, a martyr and hero for 2nd amendment rights. But now his wife is a widow and children without a dad.
Of course if you live by the sword (or the gun) then be prepared to die by the sword (or gun). A rabbi from Nazareth said something along those lines. Given KIrk’s and other Christian Nationalists’ rhetoric (and his and their support of Jan 6, 2021) I am frankly surprised it didn’t happen sooner.
Ra’s al Ghul-Usually people that shoot random folks with whom they disagree usually don’t represent anyone’s values except their own warped ones. For example, the two people who attempted to assassinate Trump in 2024 were both mentally unstable. Although I’m not a fan of Trump or Kirk, I recognize their right to to hold their opinions as our democracy supposedly decrees.
The problem I see is that too many people are forgetting that we live in a democracy.
He was a champion of civil dialogue and solving problems without violence. I grieve tonight for his family and his generation. May a thousand like him sit in the public square in his stead risking all.
Alan,
The same Charlie Kirk who took the 5th Amendment when testifying before Congress in their hearings on the Jan 6th rioter and Turning Point’s role in that? The same Charlie Kirk who pushed the 2020 election fraud that led to to those riots and deaths? The same Charlie Kirk who was OK with Trump pardoning the same criminals and supported the same while at the same pushing for the US military to be deployed in blue state cities (but not those in red states with higher crime rates) in the name of order? He is no more than a Tiktok Goebbels. If this was the 1930s, he would have been a member of the Bund. And like Goebbels, his obituary I read with great pleasure.
No one should suffer violence for words.
Ra’s al Ghul, your words are inspirational to violent, evil actions.
So many people are willing to be the embodiment of evil, and words are the indication of an overflowing heart. Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy, and his admirers and adherents are many and a growing legion at that.
There are abundant writings here on this site describing the way of Jesus and your expressions show that you embrace a rhetoric contrary to the way of Jesus.
Repent and turn to Jesus for the forgiveness of sins that you would be rescued from the love of darkness.
Rob,
I walked away from Christianity a long time ago and I have no intention of ever going back unless God gets off his posterior and cleans up the dumpster fire that is the American Church (of which Charlie Kirk and his ilk are primary pyromaniacs). It is people like Charlie Kirk and others are why people want nothing to do with Christianity. I see that either God can’t or doesn’t do anything that his character is debased and besmirched because of the actions and behaviors of his erstwhile followers. Why should I follow Christ if it turns me to an even bigger asshole? But at least I don’t wrap any darkness and what I think in Christian platitudes like those of Christian Nationalists and the late Charlie Kirk.
If we presume that what happened to Ananias and Sapphira actually occurred according to the book of Acts, then maybe God should do more of the same. What does it say about judgment to BEGIN in the house of the Lord in one of Peter’s epistles? Maybe if that ACTUALLY happens, I will reconsider my departure from the faith. If my so-called love of darkness makes me similar (and likewise damned) to a Roman soldier in 1st AD Israel after the Jews chose Barabbas then so be it. But at least I am not a fraud.
Another thing. That phrase “turn to Jesus” is the exact same line told as a way of deflecting, redirecting, and excusing their behavior, actions, and attitudes. Why should I turn to Jesus if it means I become like one of them or apparently doesn’t do anything except as a convenient excuse and get out of jail free card? Especially when asked if they did same and they emphatically insist that they did, despite being called on their behavior and bullshit.
Never forget in the comic book world Ra’as al Ghul is an Assassin and head of the League of Assassins.
Since this poster did not answer my previous question about why the handle was chosen, one must assume it is the heart of the person against people of Faith, especially Christianity.
Assassinating Kirk is an evil thing. And for those who compare other evils in the world to it, yes you are correct they are evil. My only answer is seek truth and look in the mirror for an evil heart, because we all have one.
One doesn’t have to hate God, Jesus, the Church or any of the schisms to disagree with what goes on. Searching for truth, peace and how the world around us makes any sense is a good thing.
Only the Spirit of God can really soften and change our hearts. Those who seek truly Him will find Him.
Turn to Jesus is not a deflection, it’s an invitation from from God found in Isaiah 45.22 and Acts 3.19.
Many years ago I discovered that a former pastor of mine posts on this site. It was quite an illuminating revelation. It is cathartic to see the actual true thoughts of this person in comparison to what they said from the pulpit, someone who was instrumental in me completely closing the door on Christianity. In short, this site has helped me understand more and more why it was a good choice to walk away.
I’m writing now to say that Ra’s al Ghul is correct and I’m thankful for their presence on this website as a firm non-Christian. It is hard to witness Christian dysfunction from the inside, but it becomes even more horrifying when viewed from the outside. I hope people can learn to see the value in that.
Steve Thomas, you said that Christian dysfunction is ‘horrifying when viewed from the outside’ – could you elaborate on the symmetry and beauty that emerges from a godless construct or from a construct that demeans the words and work of Jesus?
Is there no ‘horrifying’ dysfunction in a purely secular culture or societal construct? Have the purest secularists eliminated ‘horrifying’ dysfunction? I may have missed that rather important finding.
Ra’s al Ghul finds ‘great pleasure’ in the obituary death of another human, is that an ethic you share as well?
Are you aware that many “firm non-Christians” do not share your thankfulness for Ra’s al Ghul’s ‘great pleasure’ at the death of another, and in fact, many would find your thankfulness quite problematic in lack of empathy for another human life?
Have you happened upon any cultures that historically take ‘great pleasure’ at the death of other humans and observed the trajectory of those cultures?
Would you endorse or assist in eliminating ‘horrifying’ Christian dysfunction or are you only offering words of justification to those who would seek to bring ‘great pleasure’ to those who enjoy reading the obituaries of those holding to ideas and beliefs you find ‘horrifying’ in their dysfunction?
No matter the case, I hold great hope for you and Ra’s al Ghul, because the apostle Paul said he was once very zealous against Jesus and the Way as well. Even when his hatred turned to violence, persecution, and killing, Jesus still pursued Paul.
“I’m writing now to say that Ra’s al Ghul is correct and I’m thankful for their presence on this website as a firm non-Christian. It is hard to witness Christian dysfunction from the inside, but it becomes even more horrifying when viewed from the outside. I hope people can learn to see the value in that.”
The issue isn’t with Ra’s opinions about Christianity, they are neither uncommon nor something new, it is about this statement about Kirk;
” If this was the 1930s, he would have been a member of the Bund. And like Goebbels, his obituary I read with great pleasure.”
Maybe honest, but it is a sickness in the current culture and schisms of the USA Culture.
I might ask Steve if you are actually Ras’s and attempting to defend a culture of assassination and death?
Please don’t forget Goebbels committed suicide and was not assassinated. Huge difference.
There’s a lot to digest here…
First, any assassination is a direct attack on all of America and any chance at maintaining the republic.
I found Kirk’s views repugnant on many levels…but whoever shot him just afforded him martyrs status.
I think I need to write a whole piece about my next point…which is that Kirk’s faith was not my faith and his Jesus bore little resemblance to the Jesus I know…but I won’t abandon Jesus because some people misrepresent Him.
I will state loudly that I am a Christian and a follower of Jesus…and for most of my life I’ve refused to allow His name to be dragged through mud that men created.
Forgive me if I do not find those who jumped ship brave or heroic…to me, that’s like running out of the house that’s on fire without waking up the family.
TH,
Yes I am well aware of the comic book character and his background. But it reality I took the name from the character as depicted in the Batman Begins. The American Church and the GOP need the Ra’s al Ghul treatment. And conservative columnist George Will agrees in regards to the GOP (see link below):
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/politics/george-will-donald-trump
Here is a quote from the movie that describes his motivation (and my attitude towards Christianity in the US):
“Gotham’s time has come. Like Constantinople or Rome before it the city has become a breeding ground for suffering and injustice. It is beyond saving and must be allowed to die. This is the most important function of the League of Shadows. It is one we’ve performed for centuries. Gotham… must be destroyed.”
American Christianity, its institutions, its leadership, influencers (like Charlie Kirk) etc. (and that of the GOP) are so hopelessly so corrupted, so broken, so beyond repair that the only solution is to raze it completely – and start from the ground up again. The patient is terminal, time to pull the plug, and let it die.
Now before you say that is evil blah blah might I remind you that God himself enabled the same (through earth-based powers and institutions – versions of the League of Shadows as it were) for ancient Israel and in 1st century Roman Judea for very much the same reasons. God also said that judgement BEGINS in the House of Lord. Seems to be the church didn’t get the memo either.
Anything less and you are only prolonging the inevitable and rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic
And that is the hurtful truth.
Ras’s
Yes you truly are the heart of the comic book villain, Ras’s.
The truth is there is no debate with people who hold your convictions.
You are just another in a historical chain of people who think through violence and personal ideologies over others the world will be a better place. The truth is when you accomplish your goals all that is left is death and destruction.
I find the only truth in your statement is it’s filled with hate and destruction, an evil heart of stone. And yet like all of us, there is always hope it will soften. Maybe that is why you were led here.
I hope it does.
Typo, Ra’s not Ras’s
Ra’s al Ghul,
You should have stayed to the end of the movie…where Batman refuses to give up on his people and defeats your namesake…there’s some theology there…
TH,
For starters, you don’t even know what my so-called personal ideologies or traits are. But I know this much, hypocrisy is not one of mine.
While I have walked away from Christianity and want nothing to do with it, I do respect people like Michael and Duane.
While I may not believe what they believe or agree, I give them credit for being legit.
I have read and posted for many years here and do not see hypocrisy coming from Michael and Duane.
They stick to their principles and I can and do respect that.
The posers and frauds deserve the wraith and the judgement.
The problem is that the legit ones are the ones getting persecuted by the posers while the posers get away with their bullshit all the while proclaiming the legit ones, the godless heathens, liberals etc. are the problem.
And that really really makes me angry.
IF Rome or Constantinople were not hopelessly corrupt and then there would be no need for the League of Shadows.
I would rather be a principled Godless pagan than one of these so-called cosplayer Christians.
Who better exemplified Biblical concepts of Justice, Truth, and lack of hypocrisy, the atheist Steve Baughman or Ravi Zacharias (you can do some Googling to find the relationship between the two)?
Charlie Kirk in some ways deserved to die BECAUSE he was a fraud and a poser and someone who bowed down to Baal all the while proclaiming his so-called faith.
Polycarp did not deserve to die because he was not a poser (yet he did die as a martyr).
And maybe, just maybe if the church was filled with more Polycarps, Duanes, and Michaels, instead of being mostly populated by Charlie Kirks I would consider exploring it again.
MIchael,
I did. And one of the reasons he respected Batman (in both the movie and in the comics and cartoons) is because his not a poser and sticks to his principles (even though he disagrees with him). Why do you think he always call him “Detective” even though he knows Batman is Bruce Wayne?
I feel like Diogenes and his lamp when it comes to Christianity in America.
Ra’s
Your personal traits and ideologies are revealed here, at least partially.
Hatred is a cancer I hope you find a cure.
Living in a comic book/movie script driven world is a fantasy, time to move on.
Good luck to you.
Ra’s al Ghul,,
Thank you for the kind words.
I say this without boasting, but as a simple fact.
No one has written more or been read by more people about the ills of American Christianity than yours truly.
25 years and plenty of scars to prove it.
I’ve never written a word about the failings of Jesus…because there are none.
Jesus defeated evil by sacrificial love…and that is the only way we will.
I don’t care if you choose not to join a church…I care very much about you knowing and understanding Jesus…who is opposed to many of the same things you are.
TH,
I think the Batman is the single greatest literary character in American fiction.
I learned more from that character than I ever learned in Sunday school…don’t be quick to dismiss such analogies….the arts are vital to character development….
Michael,
Much insight can be gained from the study of these literary characters and reading of fiction (whether comics, novels, etc.).
FWIW, I have always preferred Batman over Superman. Interestingly, Batman is better able to hold to his principles despite being a non-metahuman more so than Superman. Remember it was Superman that succumbed to the Anti-Life Equation and became Darkseid’s puppet.
Michael
I loved the Adam West Batman, yes, I grew up watching the original, and I watched 2 of the movies which were Okay. Metaphors aside, storytelling is a powerful way of getting a point across as we know parables were in the Jewish rabbinical world.
However, we live in a time when young men and possibly women are spending the majority of their time living and playing in fantasy worlds. I contend some lose themselves in such fantasy. And possibly act out those fantasies.
I am gratefully relieved that nearly all comments unhesitatingly convey grief and profound sympathy for the Kirk family …and abhor the increasing use of murder by an individual, to stifle an opposing viewpoint.
The thought of censoring free speech in the public square is (generally) repugnant to me, however …I can find no sympathy for those whose employment has been terminated, as a consequence of their cruel public celebrations of this man’s premeditated murder.
Their social media posts proudly trumpet hateful memes like: “Cause-and-effect BABY!”
All the while, blind hatred allowed them to be caught DUMBFOUNDED by the irony of swift and retributive justice: Without a hint of self-reflection or situational awareness …they ran headfirst into a ‘vocational woodchipper’ commiting career suicide, with malicious public declarations; “FAFO Charlie!” “Good Riddance!” …”He only got what was coming to him!”
Dave
I want to understand : Are you saying that you think it is perfectly fine to fire anyone who criticizes Kirk’s character, words, or deeds in any way at this time?
Robert F.
No, that’s definitely not the meaning I wished to convey.
I believe the commonly cited judicial standard of ‘Reasonable minds’ …would agree that there is a world of difference between merely expressing public disagreement or criticism towards another …and gleefully celebrating in public, the murder of another human, with which you held opposing viewpoints.
Quietly withholding sympathy while maintaining a mature degree of self-discipline and human decency is what the rest of expect. It IS possible to offer condolences to surviving family members grieving over their loss, while acknowledging points of respectful disagreement.
Public expressions of cold-hearted, merciless shadenfreude reveal a darkly maladjusted aspect of one’s character that can NEVER be un-seen or lived down. Not only would I not want to employ or work alongside someone that mentally ill …I wouldn’t entrust them to watch my dog. I suspect such persons are incapable of empathy and compassion …and would likely be negligent in providing for an animal’s needs.
“Public expressions of cold-hearted, merciless shadenfreude reveal a darkly maladjusted aspect of one’s character that can NEVER be un-seen or lived down. Not only would I not want to employ or work alongside someone that mentally ill …I wouldn’t entrust them to watch my dog. I suspect such persons are incapable of empathy and compassion …and would likely be negligent in providing for an animal’s needs.”
Couldn’t agree more.
Tragically, the president of our country is just such a person.