I’m Not Batman

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85 Responses

  1. Babylon's Dread says:

    Finally we have a coherent argument for Sharia law and Muslim dress codes.

  2. Laura Scott says:

    I would love not to give a rip about this topic but I cannot.

    This deception has touched the life of a very dear friend and created all kinds of destruction, the most obvious casualty being her marriage.

    The more our society makes this OK, the more the deception proliferates. The thing of it is this: as brave and courageous and whatever else these decisions are characterized, the lives of these folks are rarely better or happier.

    Lies destroy as much as they ever did.

  3. Xenia says:

    The only way this man looks even remotely like a woman on that album cover is due to an extreme use of the airbrush.

    If he is mentally ill and this is how his illness is manifesting itself we should all look the other way, just as we politely look the other way when a mentally handicapped person is slobbering his food all over himself in a restaurant. Don’t stare, my mother used to say. It’s rude.

  4. Muff Potter says:

    Michael wrote:

    I don’t know how to say this politely…I don’t care.

    You have courage Michael. Al Mohler & Denny Burk will probably beat this thing to death and get beaucoup mileage out of it. Still others will insist that things are now bad enough to be beyond the tipping point and that Jeezus will rapture true Christians out of here any at moment.

  5. Paige says:

    While I have a certain amount of ‘sympathy’ for the cause & effect of endocrine disrupting chemicals in our environment and that reality that there have always been androgenic mutations, hermaphrodites, birth defects, etc…. I mostly feel like the Bruce Jenner thing is a publicity stunt that only someone with loads of money and a pre-existing public platform (ie ‘fame) could pull off….. I have to wonder if he is actually being used by media to draw readership. Whatever.

    My husband and I were talking about the situation and his concern was for the VAST amount of money spent to make the external changes, and how that money could have been better spent on those in need of legit medical issues.

    I’m almost embarrassed to admit, that I did ask Google if Jenner had undergone ‘the big surgery” if you know what I mean…. and the answer is, NO…. so obviously, he still isn’t completely convinced about his man-parts. Sick…. and not the courageous ‘hero’ he is being made out to be. S/he is some sort of poster ‘child’ for how off kilter our country is.

  6. Michael says:

    Muff,

    That’s a whole ‘nother article.
    If you want to make money and do numbers in this business you have to pick one side and rant as hard and often as possible.
    I’m just not going to do that…I don’t know whether that’s courage or stupidity, but I have to live with myself in front of God.

  7. Michael says:

    Laura,

    I don’t think it will be long before we reap the whirlwind on these matters.
    Then we’ll get to show how gracious and merciful we are…or not.

  8. Muff Potter says:

    Point well taken Michael, but I still say it’s courage. It’s one of the reasons I still visit here. You’re an independent thinker with reformed convictions who is not afraid of dialogue.

  9. Michael says:

    Muff,

    If anyone reads our comment sections the last couple of days there has been great wisdom spoken by lots of people.
    Not all of them agreed with me, and that’s what makes this worthwhile.
    Thank you for your kind words and for being part of the community here.

  10. Ms. ODM says:

    You are glad you are no longer dating?? How does that relate to Jenner? Are you relieved to know that now you won’t be misled by a beauty of a woman only to discover she is really a he? I guess that should be a relief. Otherwise you could end up in trouble like Danny Bonaduce.

  11. Michael says:

    Ms. ODM,

    When I was dating, I was usually drinking as well…could have been deceived to my shame… 🙂

  12. Nonnie says:

    You’d have to be really drunk to be fooled by “Caitlyn.”

  13. em says:

    courage? well… yes… but to what end? all of these confused folk want to be accepted for what they “feel” as if they are… the sad, really sad, thing is that they don’t know what they are and neither does the rest of society… so we make up our own conclusions to fit the circumstances and call it real and normal… genetic accidents and experiments are real, but they are not conducive to a healthy society…
    i hope that someday we begin to be concerned about how programmable our brains are and how our physiological, as well as psychological, systems are affected by patterns that set up in our grey matter … “grey” matter is a fitting description … as is brain “washing,” God’s kind works best

  14. em says:

    BD, forget sharia law… i vote for arranged marriages…
    but there is a kind of twisted humor in dating now… finally, something to make me glad i’m old

  15. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Jenner is no different than the TVC guy looking at child porn – and should not be looked at by society any differently

  16. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I take it back a little. If Jenner wants to prance around his home dressing like a gal, that is OK with me. Even a tript to the supermarket is OK.

    But when he is selling it on TV, magazines and promotes that he is doing it to help others feel comfortable doing, well I don’t accept it … and not that it matters as I am sure I am outnumbered.

  17. Jim says:

    The Kardasian vortex of crazy sucked the life out of this dude.

  18. em says:

    is it possible that that family is so into displaying themselves and their supposed over the top pulchritude (betcha haven’t that word lately, if ever) for money that Bruce is a result? the ultimate hen-pecked husband: “I think I’m a girl, too.”

  19. Laura Scott says:

    Jim,

    He went willingly.

  20. Babylon's Dread says:

    Shouldn’t he be Kaitlyn?

  21. Laura Scott says:

    Dread,

    On another blog I frequent, it was revealed the C was chosen in favor of the K as the K has too much to do with that “other” brand.

    Whatever.

  22. EricL says:

    Yeah, a few years back I was leading a training conference in Denver when the hotel informed us that the group meeting in the next hall was a Transgender Convention. Try to explain that to a group of attendees, many of whom were young Mormons from Utah. So, don’t be surprised if you find a “woman” in the bathroom using the urinal.

    I left that to the local regional manager to explain and he did so. He told his people that the other convention’s attendees were of an alternative lifestyle. Funny thing, he was later berated by a lesbian employee who said that hers was an alternative lifestyle while the others were just freaks.

    Sometimes, you just can’t win the PC game.

  23. Anne says:

    This person lives in my neighborhood in another low-income building. I have sat at the same table with them eating at the senior center in my building, been on the same bus/train, at the grocery store, etc. A lot different than Jenner’s story. The youtube video at the bottom of the article is an interesting watch to me. (S)he was definitely trans before trans was “cool”.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/living/index.ssf/2013/06/sister_paula_nielsen_portlands.html

  24. covered says:

    I live in a very small town. A teacher who has lived his entire life (over 50 yrs) here decided that like Mr. Jenner, he was going to be a she. The town loves this guy and the newspaper did a front page story on him and his “journey”. He is offering his time free of charge to meet with children who are also confused to help them sort out what their true identity is.

    This sort of thing has impacted an entire community and I’m having a hard time finding anyone (outside the church), who has a problem with this.

    In the article he even used the, “I love God but He made a mistake” argument. Very sad.

  25. covered says:

    Ooops, I forgot to say that he was a High School teacher.

  26. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    “He is offering his time free of charge to meet with children who are also confused to help them sort out what their true identity is. ”

    What confusion – look down and the confusion is over.

  27. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    Hey, Joel Osteen is fond of saying that you can be rich just by thinking about it – maybe it does work.

  28. Babylon's Dread says:

    Like Laura

    I would love to not care about this but the level of sickness that has produced this is only exceeded by the level of sickness that welcomes it.

    The man is 65 years old, he did not transform himself into a woman he attempted to transformed himself into an object of lust, frankly his history attests that he is transforming himself into an object of his own lust.

    This is narcissism writ larger than life.

    Once again I do not care if I am hated for hating this.

  29. covered says:

    “What confusion – look down and the confusion is over.” I agree, it really is that simple.

  30. Alex says:

    As more of a Libertarian, I think Bruce Jenner can grow boobs and cut his pecker off if he wants to…but like Michael said, it no more makes him a biological “woman” than it makes me black if I say I feel like I’m a brother and I want affirmative action.

    Bur, hey, it’s not something I’d get my male-underwear in a ruffle over…it’s a somewhat free country and if he isn’t hurting anyone else (or he is hurting them but they are of consenting legal age…50 Shades of…Hey!) then live and let live.

    Personally, I would do a package check on aisle five if I was in the dating scene…there are transformers everywhere these days and you don’t want to do a Crying Game that’s for sure. Yikes!

  31. Jeff Sheckstein says:

    Michael, this subject was covered in the 70’s:

  32. Alex says:

    MLD said, “Jenner is no different than the TVC guy looking at child porn – and should not be looked at by society any differently”

    I disagree…I think the child p0rn is much worse…it’s not a victimless crime…and kids are “the least of these”

    Bruce Jenner growing boobs and cutting off his pecker and taking women’s hormones and pretending he’s a female is not the end of the world and really only affects him and his relationships.

  33. Jeff Sheckstein says:

    Sorry. Link to Kink’s “Lola” failed

  34. Officer Hoppy says:

    If Jenner were able to compete in the decathlon, would it be as a man or a woman? How would Olympic officials view the change? I’ll bet that will eventually become an issue

  35. Alex, nope, the porn guy is just wired wrong like Jenner and or affected by hazardous chemicals that have screwed him up.

    Chances are the porn guy is not a propagandist for his whacked out sorry life like Jenner is. Jenner’s behavior is not without victims. But it’s OK, you will end up by paying their government disability anyway.

  36. And I think we all have to face the reality that Jenner is just punking us.

  37. Porcine Pilot says:

    Jenner is milking the media & making a fortune. He landed on the Cheerios box by winning gold; now he’s on Vanity Fair for indulging himself.

    Sows & Boars ain’t rocket science.

  38. Alex says:

    Any of you CC guys know of a CC pastor Rob Glickman?

  39. Alex says:

    Email me if anyone knows this cat…good, bad or otherwise:

    Agrenier7 at gmail dot com

  40. Surfer51 says:

    As one pastor once told me:

    “I stay out of “civilian” affairs.”

    He meant that he sticks to the Gospel message and leaves the other stuff to others.

    This indeed is other stuff.

  41. Surfer – your pastor friend is a fool.
    So if your neighborhood became dangerous to your grandkids, do you just stick to the Gospel, or do you get the “civilian” authorities involved?

    As I said in my #16 if Jenner wants to prance around his house dressed as a woman and go through all the make up etc, fine

    But when he comes out on national TV saying that he is doing this to “make my kids more comfortable” – well, I do take issue.

  42. “make my kids more comfortable” is not his kids, but my kids and your kids and everyone’s kids.

  43. Babylon's Dread says:

    The idea that life is as cleanly separated as some knucklehead pastor who claims he is staying out of civilian affairs is pure hogwash.

    If you have members to your church you have civilians who do not have the luxury of hiding behind a claim to preach a Gospel that has no relevance to civilian life.

    There is no “other stuff” if your Gospel is the Gospel of the kingdom. After all our Gospel claim is that Jesus is the world’s true LORD. That would make pretty much everything relevant to the Gospel. … too many midget men fill pulpits

  44. Babylon's Dread says:

    The changes are coming fast now…

    Soon gay marriage will be the law of the land. But it is only a beginning, yes it is a new genesis. And redefining marriage will mean the old Genesis has to go. The mythology of male and female must go with it. “In the image of God He (God) made him. Male and female He made them.” You see they will not just strike down the definition of marriage but the very definition of male and female must go as well. And obviously any religion that makes God gender specific is useless carrion for the buzzards of history and must go.

    Already the assault is coming. Jenner is certainly not the forerunner, there are untold numbers of surgical neutrons trying to find identity, but for now he is their apostle. They will tell us that we can no longer weigh children with the baggage of calling them boys and girls. They must discover who they are and “we” will help them. Those novel and new gender reveal parties will become passé. You cannot assign gender by mere empiricism. We will need the sages of psychology to give us steps of helping our children discover what they are.

    The days of assigning gender titles because of mere biology will be looked upon as the primitive abusiveness of ignorant religious bigots. Even now Hollywood is scouring the realm for new stories. They will give us shows where babies are born and by the time they are toddlers they tell us their true gender by the ‘unaided’ choices they make in the care of properly trained ‘parents.’

    Michael expresses some hope the backlash will stem this tide. But the force of this wave will not be stemmed until the tidal damage is done. The carnage will be far worse than live and let livers would have you believe. We are entering the days of the intolerance of the crowd that clamored for tolerance.

    Don’t get me wrong. I am neither afraid nor despairing. I am just giving a sneak peak. God’s kingdom cannot fail but it always suffers violence and so it will again.

    Watch and See Dread

  45. Officer Hoppy says:

    Dread
    You # 44 is right on. Thought the very same things myself

  46. gomergirl says:

    So, I just want to share my thoughts, and probably get a verbal whoopin, but I think it is important to say…

    I have a personal stake in this conversation. I know and have known, several people who have taken this path looking for the elusive feeling of wholeness that has eluded them.

    I also know people who fight to hold on to God’s truth, in stead of giving in to the call of the flesh.

    I am so saddened that a human being is so unhappy that they will go tho the extreme of Invasive body altering surgery to try and make them happier. Some think they are. Some still are looking for the elusive thing that will fill the void. And others still struggle on to overcome the desires and follow the true and living God.

    I pray for the chance to share the love of Christ with them. Somehow show them that the love and grace and mercy of Christ are enough to cover them and fill the void and temptress that they feel. And until that day, I will continue to treat them like the child of God that they are and pray for them to have their eyes opened.

    And on the day that they do have that meeting and are brought into the family of the King, I hope there will be churches out there for them that will bring them in and love them, and treat them in a way that will show them the kingdom here on earth.

    But I am afraid that may be the hardest part…….

  47. Jtk says:

    Dread’s warnings have won me over…some.

    I’m not sure how bad it will get, within the next say 20 years.

    But the biggest takeaway for us Christians is our need for BOLDNESS. The path to us loving Jesus is clear (and spoke of widely), as is the path to us loving others (without humanism).
    I see God purifying His bride, the church, and drawing us closer to Him. So we will be holy. And so we will be BOLD. (Not as Fox News is “bold” in the political realm).

    Being a Christian is still a net benefit in our nation, and many of us older than Roe can be like spoiled children who are facing losing some of our special privileges with these changes.

    Let’s toughen up and be bold. (I think most of us are in the neighborhood on the love aspect).

    Sodom and Pompeii never survive in the long run.

    We need the boldness of the Holy Spirit to be the witnesses we need to be in these times.

  48. Officer Hoppy says:

    I’m quoting you on that one

  49. gomergirl says:

    I do have one more, more general comment. then you can let the beat down commence…..

    The biggest problem I see in the attitudes of this thread are this…

    We can not legislate morality on a grand scale. It does not work, for either side. What we can do is connect on a personal level and change lives. One person at a time. Just as the bible says “the poor will always be with us” it could be more broad and say “sinners and evils will always be with us” We can not stop a tidal wave by ourselves, but we can love our neighbor, co-worker or contractor and show them the truth, so in turn they can do the same. I think the church has lost sight of this and focuses way too much on the big picture.

    I pray that we can change lives, not policy. love people, not a country or political system….

    Ok. have at it….

  50. Officer Hoppy says:

    If Dread is correct, (and I think he is) The biggest challenge for the followers of Christ may be holding to the historical interpretation of scripture not just on this issue but all issues. As culture “evolves” the hermeneutic of interpretation will either have to change to keep pace with it or be jettisoned all together.

    Already Matthew White in his book ” The Gay Christian” has deconstructed 6 biblical passages on homosexuality so say those scriptures speak of promiscuity and not birth.

  51. Alex says:

    Officer Hoppy….you pretty much just inadvertently expressed my belief (through observation) of how truth and morals/ethics work in a practical sense.

    Consensus Principle in action.

    “As culture “evolves” the hermeneutic of interpretation will either have to change to keep pace with it….”

    Does Cultural Consensus drive hermeneutic/interpretation of “thus sayeth the Lord!”…or does hermeneutic/interpretation drive Cultural Consensus?

    …a bit of both, I think…but the reality is that Philosophical Belief and Cultural Consensus are in a Synergistic relationship.

    This is exampled in history with issues like Slavery, Polygamy, Child Abuse, 15 year old Brides bearing kids, Women covering their heads (OK Islam still does it), Stoning people to death, Burning people at the stake etc…were all once “Good” and acceptable and “righteous”….now, they are not. What changed? The bible was cool with all of the above…what changed? The HERMENEUTIC/INTERPRETATION changed…Cultural Consensus changed….which led? Dunno….but they both “changed”…no doubt about that…it is Fact.

  52. Babylon's Dread says:

    As for how bad it will get…

    — I will not live to see it but I think within 25 years 40% of young people will be self reporting to have had same sex experiences. Might not take that long.
    — The power to bless(approve) is very powerful and always increases what you bless. Our intention to bless homosexuality will increase it to shocking proportions. The advocates will either tell you the percentage was always there or they will shift the narrative to tell you that choice is supreme and religious prohibitions are meaningless in progressive culture.
    — Further sex is not neutral and every serious study of brain chemistry will tell you that trauma, drugs, sex and all kinds of things alter the function of the brain. This experimentation is not harmless it will make havoc of lives.
    — Cultural interests will supersede family interests and the government will increasingly put pressure on the family to conform to government not religious norms

    I hope I am wrong. But our current direction denies it.

    Nothing has been more important for forming human culture than a belief in one man and one woman in the image of God in family. It has been the most persistent enduring polestar in human culture. The very formation of human culture is under assault. And the ones who gained power by calls for toleration will end toleration.

  53. Babylon's Dread says:

    God’s love is a holy love it is not without content.

  54. Michael says:

    BD,

    I’m writing an article on this and will need your input later.

  55. Muff Potter says:

    Alex @ # 51,

    Good observation Alex. Another way of putting it (for me anyway), is how much of the Bible am I going to try and extrapolate out of the way back then and make it apply into the here and now?

  56. Martin Luther's Disciple says:

    I don’t want to legislate against Jenner’s actions, not even his flaunting it on TV to the world. I just want to protect myself to be able to say it is wrong and harmful.

  57. Just A Sheep says:

    I agree w/ Paige at @5
    This is about money and publicity.
    Someone sent me this article today that was fascinating
    http://nypost.com/2015/06/03/why-caitlyn-jenner-is-the-most-shameless-kardashian-of-them-all/

  58. Alex says:

    Dread said, “Nothing has been more important for forming human culture than a belief in one man and one woman in the image of God in family.”

    No, that isn’t correct.

    Too much polygamy and too many concubines/sex slaves and kids from multiple wives by “men of God” in the bible for that to be correct.

    David, Solomon, Abraham, Gideon, Jacob, etc.

  59. Alex says:

    Dread said, ” I will not live to see it but I think within 25 years 40% of young people will be self reporting to have had same sex experiences. Might not take that long.”

    No, you’re over-reacting friend.

    Right now it’s about 3% of the population…and that number hasn’t changed much in recent history.

    It won’t be much above that in the future. It really is a kind of “born with it” tendency vs. something you can turn on and off. It seems to be a predilection for about 3% of the human species population…and that number has been fairly consistent to date.

  60. Alex says:

    Muff said, “Good observation Alex. Another way of putting it (for me anyway), is how much of the Bible am I going to try and extrapolate out of the way back then and make it apply into the here and now?”

    Agreed. It’s a tough one. Hard to make Absolutes when the stuff clearly changes…often.

  61. Babylon's Dread says:

    @58 Alex read carefully … “more important for forming human culture” What you then did was pick out the separate issue of Hebrew patriarchs and kings and their deviation from the norm. We have no indication that their practice was the norm. Further we know it is not the norm in cultures formed and fashioned under the Hebrew scriptures. We know polygamy had plenty of run among some cultures outside that influence. I stick by my carefully worded statement. “Nothing has been more important in forming human culture”

    As for the second claim, that you reject @59…
    I know I reached far… and I hope to be very wrong… might be… but I am absolutely not wrong that what you bless increases and if you remove the cultural taboo against a form of sex it will increase and if you mark the brain chemistry by these experiences they become more likely. You followed the well-worn path of buying into the genetics is destiny route…
    Lesbian practice is increasing exponentially … a little research will show this

    http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/human_nature/2013/11/are_lesbian_sex_and_anal_sex_increasing_19_percent_of_young_british_women.html

    I am shocked that you do not believe these percentages will increase. When people are told yes about sex they will do more. As a pastor I never had reports of same sex behavior in youth groups. It is now common.

    You absolutely can turn this on… but turning it off is harder once the fire is lit. I do not expect broad acceptance of my claims. But I think this increase is as observable as the water crisis in Western states. We are running out of ground water… everyone knows it. We can see and sense it. By the same token we are increasing same sex behavior…everyone can see it but the politics are in favor of suppressing that fact until acceptance is more entrenched.

  62. Alex says:

    Dreadly said, “We have no indication that their practice was the norm. ”

    Incorrect, we have a ton from history that proves this out…as well as “scripture”

  63. Alex says:

    Dreadly said, “but I am absolutely not wrong that what you bless increases and if you remove the cultural taboo against a form of sex it will increase and if you mark the brain chemistry by these experiences they become more likely. You followed the well-worn path of buying into the genetics is destiny route…”

    True to a degree with your “what you bless will increase”…it fits within Sowing and Reaping Principle which is proven largely a true dynamic (with some exceptions).

    Dreadly said, “if you remove the cultural taboo against a form of sex it will increase”

    Sometimes, sometimes not. We implemented a Cultural Taboo against alcohol….a.k.a. Prohibition…did folks stop drinking or drink more?

    We made drugs illegal and a Cultural Taboo…how has that worked out?

  64. Alex says:

    Dreadly, the Jews/Hebrews know their own Culture and history better than you do:

    “Polygamy is one of the bedrocks to ancient Judaic culture, as also to all her surronding neighbors.

    Throughout the Tanach we constantly see families or the household unit consisting of more than one wife in the home.

    Christians like to think that polygamy was rare, or that it was illegal. In reality it wasn’t rare at all, but common place. Likewise, the rights to such households were fully supported by the laws of the land.

    Ancient Israel, by the way, was a theocracy. This means that the laws of the land were governed by religious law, that would be the Law of Moses and of the other prophets. There was no “freedom of religion” in ancient Israel.

    YHWH does condone polygamy, that is our Jewish culture and heritage!

    Even Isaiah the prophet foretells polygamy for the future… “And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach,” Isaiah 4:1

    The Talmud condones polygamy, Sephardic Jews condone polygamy and Yemenite Jews to this day practice polygamy.

    Polygamy is not practiced just for the sake of pleasure, but rather, polygamy is practiced for several other reasons. Some of those reasons are for tribal relations. A pact is made through marriage and so a man might want to take another wife for these purposes. Other reasons are for the financial support of the woman. Others are strictly based upon love and because the culture is already accustomed to this kind of thinking. It is not a mental issue as it would be in Western societies where it is a “sin” to have more than one wife. There are other reasons as well, but – nonetheless – the God of Israel allows it.

    When Moses laid down the rules of polygamy, he gave three criterias a man must meet:
    1) He must support her, not the other way around, and provide her shelter.
    2) He must give her clothes.
    3) He must give her marital rights, that is: he must be with
    her sexually.

    If you notice, in the passage from Isaiah, he gives these three things.

    In regards to one quote from the author on the right, where he says “In Judaism, it is permitted but definitely not encouraged, [and] was never considered an ideal,” I find this false and a spin-off from Rabbinical teachings, and therefore, I don’t agree with it.

    Maregaal Ben Yaakov”

  65. Alex says:

    Dreadly, you view through a very narrow American/protestant lens and seem to ignore the actual Jewish/Hebrew take on their own history and culture and practices.

    I think I’ll rely on the Jews/Hebrews to know what they’re Culture was and is and what their teachings were and are.

  66. Alex says:

    “Polygamy was such a well established part of the social system that Mosaic law is not even critical of it. We find only certain regulations with respect to it; as, for example, if a man takes a second wife the economic position of the first wife and of the children she bore must be secure; and, in the case of inheritance, no child of a subsequent marriage is to be preferred over a child from the first wife. Other regulations were that the high priest could have only one wife and that a king in Israel should not have too many wives [Lev. xxxx; Deut. xxx; Ex. xxx]. The last injunction, however, was of no effect. David had seven wives before he began to reign in Jerusalem, and an extraordinary number of wives and concubines has been attributed to Solomon [II Sam xxxx, xxxx]. In connection with David, the prophet Nathan did not denounce the king for adding Uriah’s wife to those he already had but ‘only’ for the means he employed to make her free to marry him. [II Sam. xxxx]”—Rabbi Eliezer Ben-Yehuda

  67. Alex says:

    “The Torah does not forbid a man from having multiple wives. Abraham, Jacob, David and Solomon are notable examples of biblical figures who wedded more than one wife.”

    “Approximately one thousand years ago, the noted German scholar Rabbi Gershom “the Light of the Diaspora” banned polygamy.1 This ban was accepted as law by all Ashkenazic Jews, but was not recognized by Sephardic and Yemenite communities.”

    –Chabad.org

  68. Alex says:

    The Babylonian Code of Hammurabi (which the Jews heavily borrowed from when they did their codes “after” the Babylonian codes) promoted monogamy…but the Jewish/Hebrew Law was OK with Polygamy.

    The surrounding Cultures of the Ancient Hebrews’ day and age were largely Polygamist.

    Those are the historical facts.

  69. Babylon's Dread says:

    I think we found Batman

  70. Alex says:

    “I think we found Batman”

    LOL.

    No, just super-information-man….I’m well read and I remember everything…and see issues through a matrix of all that knowledge held in tandem with the particular issue. If you’ve ever watched the movie the DaVinci Code…it’s a bit like how they illustrate visually that characters mind when he is processing stuff. It’s normal to me, I figured everyone has those abilities…discovering that I’m weird and that most folks think and react linearly…in 2-D…without the benefit of 4-D.

  71. Alex says:

    …that’s why I get frustrated with folks in discussions sometimes…I see it so quickly and so clearly…but others are just blind to the facts and the logic…and it is difficult for me to understand their thinking and lack of knowledge regarding a particular subject that I’ve previously studied up on.

    It comes easy to me, effortless….the ability to assimilate information and understand complex concepts etc.

  72. Jtk says:

    “…that’s why I get frustrated with folks in discussions sometimes…I see it so quickly and so clearly…but others are just blind to the facts and the logic…and it is difficult for me to understand their thinking and lack of knowledge regarding a particular subject that I’ve previously studied up on.

    It comes easy to me, effortless….the ability to assimilate information and understand complex concepts etc.”

    Alex, again I ask you:
    “Do you have anyone in your life that will tell you when you’re in pride, being an a-hole?”

    That’s one of the most prideful quotes above I’ve ever read on here.

  73. Nonnie says:

    I think we found Sheldon Cooper on steroids.

  74. em says:

    has God ever micro-managed society?
    yet, It seems clear to me that He has set boundaries for those He calls – boundaries that fit the times or the calling and always ALWAYS the focus is upon giving a just and orderly social structure… there was a reason for stoning, for wiping out whole cities and tribes and it wasn’t vengeance…

    i don’t think there’d be a human alive on the earth today without those Biblical laws… well, they’d all be east of the Himalayas…

    Genesis indicates that one husband, one wife ’till death do them part is His standard for the race… and it most definitely is His standard for the Church… but, by the people’s choice, this **world** has a different king – for now

    thinking…. thinking….

  75. em says:

    i’m old enough now to have been there when some folk today state historical facts and i’m here to tell you, don’t trust the conclusions that are drawn by historians’ digging in the archives and the dirt as “facts”… if we weren’t there, we don’t really know
    it’s fine to learn what we can from history, but it’s those details that can’t be dug up that make us repeat the mistakes of history… only God knows how to weave time and events together… it’s His loom and His tapestry IMHO

  76. Xenia says:

    You just can’t have a decent conversation with someone who is continually smirking that they are smarter than you and the only reason you don’t agree with them is that you are too dumb and too scared of the truth.

    Who needs it.

  77. Alex says:

    You guys are so thin skinned and you complain about the gays being offended so easily…. but I will submit to Michael’s wishes to give you thin skinned whiney cry-babies some space.

    Enjoy yourselves. Your regular discussions are usually pretty unintelligent and don’t really challenge anyone…just regurgitation of competing dogmas.

  78. Babylon's Dread says:

    Alex

    I don’t know what fueled this but it is not really you

  79. Babylon's Dread says:

    Alex

    I have noted on numerous occasions that you only deconstruct but you do not truly assert … I think it is because you know that subject to your own methods you would not fare well.

    Instead of opting out of whiney discussions with those who are unworthy of your powers. Assert your own credo. If there is one. I suspect you are floundering.

  80. Michael says:

    Bob,

    That was flat rude.
    Alex has agreed to back off for a while…let it go.

  81. Alex says:

    I’ve asserted it many times…pretty much from day one on here Dreadly (you’re a bright guy, rarely are those comments directed at you….though you are incorrect at times…as we all are).

    Not floundering at all, just not in the mood lately to tolerate fools.

    1. God Is (most likely).

    2. I am not “God” (solid).

    3. Jesus Christ is the Messiah (can’t prove it, very much a leap of faith…good case for historical Jesus…no evidence other than anecdote and gospel accounts for a “Messiah” Jesus that walked on water, turned water into wine, resurrected etc).

    4. “Truth” is largely Relative/Subjective…very little Objective/Absolute Truth that humans can discern and hang their hats on. We can observe Facts about our Universe/Multi-verse….very little Truth in the realm of Philosophy or Epistemology etc that we can nail down that doesn’t have an asterisk and a major disclaimer….and much depends on your particular Hermeneutic and your Group and Guru’s particular interpretations and Consensus within your Group to tell you what your Truth is. All Philosophical Camps…Humanism, Religion etc are afflicted with this same disease.

    5. Consensus Principle rules the day (in general)…there is scant Universal Consensus…then it becomes a function of a particular Sub-set of Human Cultural Consensus within particular Societies…and within that subset…it splinters further into the competing Groups and Subcultures within that particular Society and then the Consensus of each of those Groups.

    6. Ultimately, every Group is ruled by their Particular Group’s Consensus which is largely a function (in general) of their Reason and Conscience loosely applied to an ancient text (in religion) or loosely applied to Science (if humanist).

    7. Morals/Ethics in reality are largely Consensus-driven and often Situation Ethics.

    8. Human Nature is good, bad and ugly. Every human is capable of great good and great evil…sometimes within the same lifetime. Doesn’t matter the Culture, the Religion, the Philosophy…the “I’m transformed by Jesus!”…all are capable of great evil…demonstrated many times over.

    9. Power corrupts. Mankind’s kryptonite is Power. Money is Power. Fame is Power. Authority is Power, etc.

    10. I’m bored, later.

  82. Steve Wright says:

    Bob’s deleted for rudeness but THIS is forced to stand?

    ” I will submit to Michael’s wishes to give you thin skinned whiney cry-babies some space.”

    You’re now a hostage on your own blog….

    (cause I’m guessing you didn’t call your readers, friends and fellow believers (many of them women) thin skinned whiney cry-babies in your off-blog plea – and I sure don’t see any pastoral support like the old Michael circa 2009-2014 would have shown)

    Jesus wept.

    Make your own application.

  83. Alex says:

    Steve Wright, you never miss a chance do you? Well, neither will I.

  84. Michael says:

    Enough.
    This has potential for nothing good.
    This thread is closed.

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