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25 Responses

  1. Bob Sweat says:

    I read a book titled Bad Faith by Randall Balmer that gave an indication that the Roe v Wade decision was not an issue to the Evangelical Right at the beginning. Although I am opposed to abortion, it was an interesting read.

  2. Michael says:

    Bob,

    I put up those links for perspective…but I highly doubt that reasoned discussion on this topic can be had.

  3. Nathan Priddis says:

    Bob.
    It’s quite true that the Evangelical world was not pro-life. It was a Catholic thing that Evangelicalism picked up on. If I recall correctly, it was not an organic Evangelical movement, but involved an intentional Catholic influence.

    Prohibitions on terminating a pregnancy don’t seem to exist until the late 1800’s.

  4. LInn says:

    I have been pro-life just about as long as I’ve been a Christian. However, I’ve never been that sure about the pro-life movement, especially when the bombings began. I always thought that more could be done through teaching people basic Christian morals on sex (many Christian get abortions) and proper use of birth control to everyone. Just my thoughts.As for incest and rape, abortion wouldn’t be my first choice, but I can see it as option for those cases.

  5. Em says:

    Pro life? Of course! But what do you say to a woman raped or told by her OB that the pregnancy will leave her children without their mother?
    Maybe all women of child baring years should have easy access to the morning after pill, preventing a fertilized egg from attaching to the womb? Tough questions indeed! ! !

  6. Dread says:

    Em

    The Supreme Court is right to send this back to the states and to re-establish the Constitution by dumping the bad decision.

    The law on this is clear. The morality and mercy are to be worked out by the states.

  7. Officerhoppy says:

    If SCOTUS overturns Roe v Wade, regardless the morality of the issue, there will be blood flowing in the streets. Buildings will be burned and property damaged. You thought the George Floyd decision caused, chaos, just wait till the decision on this issue is affirmed. As Michael said, there is not reasonable discussion possible regarding this matter.

  8. Em says:

    Amen, officer holly
    A woman hating carrying a child, if not for the reasons I mentioned @3:50, escapes my understanding – speaking as a mom who delivered 5 babies all weighing more than 9 lbs.
    The one caveat might be, ” what if I am growing a person destined for hell?”
    Dunno, though do I. 😶

  9. Em says:

    Well… I wrote officerhoppy! – stupid spell correct
    Apologizing

  10. filistine says:

    I fear the potential overturn of RvW will result in a headlong rush among pro-life folks to weaponize the decision with punitive measures that will further compromise their “pro-life” stance…distinctly not gracious, merciful, or forgiving. I agree with Michael and others that reasoned discussion is unlikely, but essential. I am pro-life, yet think pro-life minded people think too narrowly. Access to information that will help a 13 or 14 year old avoid pregnancy in the first place has ‘no place in the schools,’ yet, that 13 year old is ill-equipped to parent a child. Adoption is increasingly out of reach financially for most American families. Pro-life agencies will assist a pregnant woman until she delivers, then nearly always disappear–their job is over when the birth happens, but the woman’s ta$k is only starting.

  11. Michael says:

    I’m too smart to not know that commenting on this subject is a fools game…but I find the term “pro-life” odd…because it only applies to unborn children conceived in America…those conceived and delivered in Mexico or Central America can and do die regularly without but it was on the other side of the line…we’re pro certain lives…up to the point of birth…

  12. Michael says:

    fil,

    You are correct…abortion declines drastically when women have access to information and health care…

  13. filistine says:

    …and, of course, access to contraception/birth control.

  14. LInn says:

    I think “pro-life” should include all children, prenatal or out of the womb. It drives me a bit nutty when Christian talk so passionately about babies in utero, and then turn around and denigrate those kept in cages at the border.

  15. Steve says:

    If my stats are correct over 63 million babies have been aborted since 1973 under Roe vs. Wade in the US and probably over 120 million every year world wide. This is staggering and deeply profound and sad. There are no comparisons I’m aware of to this evil. The procedure of abortion is so gruesome that few will bother to contemplate the horror. However sadly, I seriously doubt the reversal of Roe vs Wade will make a difference in the U S in stopping abortion. There will always be states that will profit on the industry. But if there is a silver lining which I have doubts on, I feel that maybe just maybe the Supreme Court will set the record straight that Roe vs Wade was always wrongly decided and the rule of law instead of mob rule will be reestablished. It’s scary we have a white house that will encourage protesting at a justices home after an unethical and unthinkable leak. This kind of intimidation has no place in our society. God help us all.

  16. Dread says:

    Basically the threshold for being pro-life is ending poverty. Fine! That means no one is pro-life. So just count me as welcoming the end of Roe.

    There is none that doeth good — not one.

  17. Dread says:

    VIRAL: Boom!

    “Though a lab leak looks plausible, the truth is we don’t know for sure and may never know where COVID came from. But that doesn’t mitigate the real scandal exposed in this book, which is how authorities in America and around the world obscured people’s understanding of the issue out of cowardice and corruption.”

    BOOM BOOM!!!

    “But the book’s greatest revelation, and a major object of Chan and Ridley’s own concern, is the manifest corruption of China’s officials and our own. “Honest discussions among leaders and scientists appear to be happening increasingly on burner phones and in secure email channels,” write Chan and Ridley. Under political pressure or out of the simple human impulse to save face, our authorities have lied to us. When they were caught, they lashed out and feigned outrage.”

    NUKED!!!

    “When the COVID vaccine came out, many people sensed that they were being manipulated once again by officials who considered it their right to toy with facts. “When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent [vaccination],” Fauci told the New York Times. “Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, ‘I can nudge this up a bit,’ so I went to 80, 85.” Those are the words of a philosopher king telling noble lies, not of a public servant reasoning with a free people.“

    THANK YOU!!!

    “Being deprived of reliable information and control over important decisions makes people feel edgy and aggrieved. It erodes their sense of agency, and leaves them vulnerable to anyone who claims, however dubiously, to tell them the real story. The antidote to this problem is not more disdain, more censorship, or more callous indifference to personal freedoms.“

    Conspirator Dread

  18. JD says:

    “Blind Spots” reminds me of this:
    Psalm 62:9
    Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity.

  19. Dread says:

    Viral raises the issue of the credibility of our public health officials and their responsibility for conspiratorial chaos. That Guardian report didn’t turn that worm.

    And Chaos Under Heaven by Josh Rogin is another pretty interesting source concerning corruption and incompetence.

  20. Michael says:

    Dread,

    I think overall it is a good article that raises hard questions.

    That’s why I posted it.
    On the other hand, I think rebuttals help us frame things more completely.

    There is no doubt in my mind that governmental actions helped fuel the fires of conspiracy…and that in many ways, truth still eludes us…

  21. Nathan Priddis says:

    I’m confused why an insatiable desire exist to find a lab leak..provided such source is Chinese.

    On a side note, Asia is a major springboard for viruses. I don’t recall any such need to geo-locate a virus prior to 2020.

  22. Nathan Priddis says:

    If a Christian wants to ponder the existence of viruses..

    A virus has no beneficial purpose. No reason for it’s existence. But it can’t be considered parasitic either.
    A parasitic organism in theory, has a life function outside of it’s interaction with a host. A vitus has none.

    To say viruses came into being at the Creation, is illogical. It would propose that God was flawed in his Creation. Corrupt.
    The Scripture would seem to rule out any viral existence with the statement..” after it’s kind”.

    A virus is a replicating data transmission device, just as all living creatures are first and foremost, self replicating data themselves. A tree or human did not come into existence at its physical appearance, but rather before it’s appearance, when it’s code was written.

    A virus would appear to be a weapon, or a generic insertion tool. Someone designed the first virus, for their own purposes. This could not have been a human, and the purpose was not beneficial.

    At this point, we are trained to mumble something about the Fall, and a fallen World thanks to Adam and Eve. If my dog farts, somehow it’s the Fall.

    It’s simpler to say Fall..my butt. Someone in the distant past wanted to alter lifeforms, by altering data, for a deviant purposes.

  23. Linn says:

    https://theconversation.com/why-so-many-epidemics-originate-in-asia-and-africa-and-why-we-can-expect-more-131657

    I think this article might give a little more light regarding the nature of viruses and why so many come out of Asia/Africa.

  24. Steve says:

    Nathan, what you say about viruses I could probably say about bacteria at least when it comes to Adam and Eve before the fall. But it seems to me now post fall, bacteria have a very useful and necessary function in the microbiome. Of corse they also can be harmful. It seems similar to the fact when we were first created God made us as vegetarians but it wasn’t until Genesis 9 after Noah’s flood they were given meat to eat. I think viruses similar to bacteria have a useful function now and there is research going on how viruses are part of the microbiom. I believe they have discovered over 100,000 viruses that are part of the bicrobiome that may be necessary for the bacteria to thrive that we depend on in the bicrobiome. I don’t think this was our original design but somehow God in his providence uses viruses and bacteria together to sustain our life.

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