Linkathon 6/9

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  1. Isaiah56:1 says:


  2. London says:

    The Doug Wolther link didn’t work for me.

  3. London says:

    David Murphy (or whatever his name is) has his list numbered wrong.
    It should have said:

    1. Are you a male?
    2. Do you have a holy desire

    Also, he may want to rethink that title and expand his definition of “ministry”…. cause it ain’t all about being a pastor.

    ya know?

  4. JimB says:

    Another great linkathon BrianD!!!

  5. Michael says:

    The more I read Bill Kinnon…the more I want to read from Bill Kinnon.

    Great article…

  6. Michael says:

    Ray Ortlund nailed it…

    “My Reformed friend, can you move among other Christian groups and really enjoy them? Do you admire them? Even if you disagree with them in some ways, do you learn from them? What is the emotional tilt of your heart – toward them or away from them? If your Reformed theology has morphed functionally into Galatian sociology, the remedy is not to abandon your Reformed theology. The remedy is to take your Reformed theology to a deeper level. Let it reduce you to Jesus only. Let it humble you. Let this gracious doctrine make you a fun person to be around. The proof that we are Reformed will be all the wonderful Christians we discover around us who are not Reformed. Amazing people. Heroic people. Blood-bought people. People with whom we are eternally one – in Christ alone.”

    He won’t get invited to some conferences now…

  7. Isaiah56:1 says:

    After reading that I’d invite him nearly anywhere… how do you think he feels about birthday parties? Forget conferences, he sounds like he is ready to have FUN!

    I wish that all Christians could live this about all of their doctrines…
    “Let this gracious doctrine make you a fun person to be around.”

  8. Captain Kevin says:

    “He won’t get invited to some conferences now…”

    They’re loss!

  9. BrianD says:

    The Doug Wolter link should be good now, London.

  10. Michael says:

    The link about Haggard is a good one…I have more reservations every day.

  11. jlo says:

    BrianD, there are too many good links here, I am not getting anything done today that I need to.

  12. BrianD says:

    Trevin Wax on Michael Spencer’s new book

  13. BrianD says:

    Thanks Jlo…uh, I should say sorry Jlo 🙂

  14. BrianD says:

    Light crowd. I was busy on Wednesday, so I only posted one LInkathon this week.
    Ortlund’s article was good. Kinnon’s was very good. I also appreciated Wayne’s retrospective on iMonk.
    I also want to make note of Trevin Wax’s response to iMonk’s book; in my opinion Wax is more right than he is wrong. However, I have yet to finish chapter 2 of iMonk’s book.
    Speaking of books, Jesus Manifesto is (finally) available for Kindle; I did not check to see if it was available for Nook (the Barnes & Noble book reader).
    Matthew Paul Turner’s article was a challenge: how do you, yourself, respond to someone who has done something that even this society, as far down as it’s gone, still sees as reprehensible? Go with the flow, or go with how you believe Jesus would act…even if it goes against societial norms? Do you choose to see people as their sin – or choose to see them as Jesus would see them? Messy, challenging and thought-provoking.

  15. Michael says:


    Thank you for pointing out Turners article.

    I have that app on my iPod and I use it…and have no intention of removing it.
    There’s no such thing as TMI when it comes to caring for our kids.

  16. Michael says:

    Haggard has set up the discussion so any criticism of him at all is termed judgmental.

    I was swayed to some sympathy for the man…but it’s rapidly leaving.

  17. BrianD says:

    I would too Michael if I were in your or Turners shoes.

  18. Michael says:


    I use it wherever we are…especially the skateparks.

    I want to recognize any potential threat.

    I’m also the most overprotective dad in Phoenix. 🙂

  19. BrianD says:

    I totally get it.

    That’s a big reason why Turner’s premise is so challenging – how do you show grace to scum of the earth?

    And should you?

    And what do you do when you believe that, without putting your child in danger, the Lord may lead you to do things you abhor: speak to such a person…as a human being (albeit one who has committed a heinous sin)…and allow God to show His love and grace towards such a person.

    This could apply, to a slightly lesser extent, to terrorists…or homosexuals…or anyone we feel is part and parcel of Satan’s kingdom.

    That is quite the challenge. Especially when God expects us to forgive others as we have been forgiven.

    It doesn’t mean you let that person alone around a kid, but it might mean you love them and help show God’s grace for him instead of wishing him death.

  20. BrianD says:

    I’d rather err on the side of Christ, and that’s where I’ll leave it.

  21. London says:

    Thanks BrianD.
    He didn’t really say as much about it as I thought he might.

    I read Mystically Wired at the book store today. He said some of the same kinds of things.

    Pretty much talked about how the brain works as people pray. Easy read about how science confirms that people that pray are more relaxed and that their brain scans show it.

    Talked about things like walking and praying, using your imagination etc.

    Nothing profound but a pleasant book none the less.

  22. BryonM says:

    thanks for the link 🙂

  23. Michael says:


    I wish this particular discussion had gained some traction.

    To be honest, I have no grace for child molesters…I have bullets.

    My hatred of such is that I can’t even hear Turners arguments…and that may well indeed be a problem.

  24. Another Voice says:

    If traction is what you want… 🙂

    1) Sin has earthly consequences. I have no problem with the app which is just (like most apps) a tool of ease to information or programs that are available elsewhere. The guy could be the next Spurgeon after his salvation but he will never be allowed to even usher at my church, much less teach. He can attend and worship of course.

    2) There is no person so vile that I would be unwilliing to talk to them about the gospel. My comments will NOT begin with “God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life” I think a verse here would be Jude 23 I’ve already talked to some pretty vile people over the years, and expect to talk to many others.

    3) Our laws are too easy on criminals. The reason Turner doesn’t know if the guy is a pedophile or a 20 year-old who slept with a 16 year-old is because our laws are too lax towards the more serious criminal. All the grace you want and need is available behind bars pal, where you will stay for the rest of your life.

    4) Too many confuse the purpose, role and even meaning of forgiveness – as was discussed in detail recently here at PP.

  25. Michael says:


    I concur.

    I suppose the other point I should make is that I am of the crowd that doesn’t believe that those caught in that particular sin ever change…and that may or may not be fair.

  26. Bill Kinnon says:

    You folk are way too nice to me! (Trust me, I don’t deserve it.)

    I loved David Wayne’s review of the iMonk’s book as he spoke of Michael, warts and all. (And where David might normally side with the Pyro gang in their tiffs with the iMonk – I would normally be on Michael’s side.) David is acutely aware of what Michael went through and I pray David might actually have a similar testimony to Matt Chandler. I HATE cancer!

    Trevin’s review of the iMonk’s book is also very good – but, in reading Michael’s book, I think he nails the church in a way that makes Trevin uncomfortable. I find myself close to tears most of the time while reading (I couldn’t wait and bought an e-version from Amazon for my Mac) – I profoundly miss the wisdom, wit and friendship of Michael.

  27. Michael says:


    I’m downloading the book tonight…I needed to wait past the emotionalism that would have accompanied reading it sooner.

    I hate cancer too…

  28. BrianD says:

    The horrible acts these men have committed are a great obstacle to hearing Turners point, which is not support for pedophiles by the way. But even showing common courtesy to such a man could taint you with his sin, and that’s one risk very few are willing to take.

  29. Xenia says:

    I remember the day when Ted H. came to the PP and was very charming. At that time, I felt some of you were a overly impressed by his “humility,” maybe a little star-struck.


  30. Michael says:


    I wanted to take him at face value…we’ll wait and see how wise that was.

  31. Xenia says:

    Michael, it’s good to give folks a chance.

    When he was here on the PP, I thought to myself that there’s different ways in which bullies manifest their insistence on having their own way. Some people accomplish their bullying by means of charm.

    As the Proverb says, charm is deceitful. How to tell charm from genuine humility- that’s not always easy.

  32. Another Voice says:

    Xenia – I echo you. When TH was on PP two things struck me. Frist, his immediate kneejerk criticism of Oden Fong – it was one of the first things TH posted. When about 5 people jumped in and said “Ted, you don’t know it but Oden is one of the best guys around” it died quickly

    2nd – He was peddling his wife’s book. It wasn’t just the timing, it was the many times he urged us to read (i.e. buy) his wife’s book because ‘she explains it so much better than I”

    The PP was another stop on the book tour I am afraid. (Sorry Michael – though you certainly did the right thing in encouraging the discussion with him and the forum, even if just for the day)

  33. London says:

    To be fair, and believe me, I’m not a fan of Ted, ther’s been lots of people who come on this blog, over react to something one of the “regulars” says and then backs off as soon as everyone points out their error.
    That’s not a “Ted thing” so let’s not malign the guy for that.

  34. Another Voice says:

    Fair enough London – it was just my first impression since it was one of the first things TH posted at even the first whif of criticism. And the funny thing was, Oden didn’t even criticize him. He did mention Wikopedia and TH mocked that as well.

    I said to myself THIS is the broken, humble, repentant guy wanting back into the pastorate?

  35. London says:

    Yeah, I know. I saw the posts.
    That kind of thing happens whenever someone new goes into a situation that has potential to be rot with conflict. There’s no way a new person knows who is “safe” and who is not. I’m sure that there was cause enough to be nervous and defensive in this crowd. Sometimes we can be a “wee bit” rough. 😉

    As for trying to judge how broken, humble and repentant a guy is..well, I’ll just leave that up to everyone to decide for themselves. Not my concern.

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