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40 Responses

  1. Jean says:


    Great links, as usual.

    Regarding: The original American creation-evolution debate; one of the points in the article is to be on guard that “a received interpretation, or traditional interpretation, is understood to be the same as revelation.” You raised the same basically the same issue in today’s Calvin’s Corner, where you also said that we stand on the shoulders of those (we trust) who went before us for our primary theology and doctrines.

    So, as a practical matter, how do we balance between our held traditions and advances in Biblical and historical scholarship and the sciences? Perhaps when we speak of theology, words like “advances” can be misleading or even objectionable, but the “advances” that a Biblical (Christian) scholar or theologian would propose are actually backward looking, as far as the data allow, to the Advent of the Word in Scripture as well as in history.

  2. Michael says:


    Perhaps I’m willfully ignorant, but I’ve never had a problem concerning the Bible and science…because I’ve never treated the Bible as a science book.
    Advances in biblical scholarship simply clarify what was already held to be true.
    I think…

  3. Jean says:

    “Advances in biblical scholarship simply clarify what was already held to be true.”

    Sounds obvious, but there are so many fundamental disagreements among traditions regarding **what** was already held to be true and by **who**.

  4. Michael says:


    I’m an odd duck, but I don’t just study within my own tradition.
    I read broadly to find the “best” information about the text that I can.

  5. Jean says:

    That came through very persuasively in Calvin’s Corner today.

  6. Michael says:

    It’s easier for me than most…I don’t have to walk any traditional or denominational lines. I am a free man… 🙂

  7. filbertz says:

    The Great Missionary Presupposition camped on the typical metaphors of Matthew 9 regarding the lost sheep and the harvest…it missed the point, in my opinion, about being moved with compassion.

  8. Eric says:

    The end of one of those articles is very well-put:

    Have Buddhists attained the status of an ordinary American denomination? Yes! They are suing each other. What could be more American than that?

    I hope that MH case doesn’t need to go to court. It has always appalled me that Christians suing each other is a quite specific NT prohibition, but it continues to be broken. It would be good to hear of disputing parties finding someone within the Christian community they trust to arbitrate such things.

    Of course, there was another specific prohibition… you may eat of any tree except that one…

  9. Steve Wright says:

    It would be good to hear of disputing parties finding someone within the Christian community they trust to arbitrate such things.
    Yes, when there is truly a conflict. Sometimes though, one party alone is causing all the ruckus, and even in the event of a willingness to arbitrate, once that party lost they would still cry foul and run to the courts anyway. So why bother with the initial arbitration when it is not binding on anybody – and why would one who is not in the wrong want to submit to it in the first place.

    Unfortunately, in America, anyone can sue anybody for anything. I basically fed and clothed my family based on that principle (and providing the insurance markets to protect against such suits)

  10. The Dude says:

    Unmarried working women are not the only ones leaving the church…men are leaving too.Modern Christianity has a marriage culture that’s not going to change anytime soon.My pastor has a sermon that he preaches to the married people in my little church…love one another,love each other as Christ loves you.Then to the single people…..the same message…..

  11. And to think that I have had the privilege of painting right next to Benny Hinn’s home. I have painted in his super exclusive neighborhood since 1994.

    Waved at him countless times as he and his entourage would pass by me with no response from him what so ever…LOL!

    I have had Benny’s hired body guards (blackwater troops) scrutinize me as I washed my paint brushes, as if I might be a threat to Benny.

    He must be hurting because he recently sold his vacant lot next to his home and someone is now having a house built there.

    I might mention that I attended everyone of Kathryn Kuhlman’s services at the Shrine auditorium in LA for ten years.

    Benny ain’t no Kathryn even though he emulates her mannerisms and techniques.

    Kathryn was the real deal.

    She had the blessing of the Holy Spirit manifesting in her services in such heaviness and power.

    It was if you were transported into a heavenly realm while the cars and buses outside drove by and everyone inside the Shrine auditorium was caught up in another dimension entirely.

    I only attended one Benny Hinn service and went away disappointment.

    But I will say that my close friend Erik got healed of hypoglycemia there.

    He was next to me with his arms extended upward.

    He claimed that a white hot heat was burning in his chest and that Jesus was healing him.

    He was healed.

    I used to have to take him to eat frequently before that, afterward he didn’t “lose it” anymore like he used to.

    His blood sugar would drop and he needed to eat frequently to keep his levels normal.

    After attending that Benny Hinn service Erik was indeed healed completely.

    God is faithful to heal His people no matter what clown is up on the platform.

    I talked to Oden Fong about it and he told me, “God honors the collective gathering of His people and will heal them inspite of the shenanigans of whom ever is officiating the gathering.

    Faith is a wonderus thing indeed.

  12. fme2 says:

    While the link regarding women leaving the church frames the argument in terms of marketing, I do agree with what’s said and would add this: working women want to be engaged in relevant conversations about the church, theology, and the world. I’ve noticed I’m often relegated to the the women’s group in church gatherings, where the conversation is about recipes, children, and the women’s ministry. Guess what? Recipes have minor importance in my busy life, children are always important, and I gave up on women’s ministry over ten years ago, long before I started working full time. I find the discussion with the men far more interesting, but then I’m targeted for identifying with the men. It’s a no win for working women in the church. It’s easier to disengage.

  13. I am still not sure why the lament about whether the folk in Abq should let the boy come home… I think we can … everyone is forewarned of the gig he has been in

  14. Yes the worst thing about that Hinn thing is that you might walk out before you get healed.

  15. Alex says:

    The RICO civil suit is very interesting…that issue is something I predicted was the biggest no-no in all the Mars Hill stuff.

  16. brian says:

    Hello everyone, I get to go back to work tomorrow it is so relieving. I will be on work mitigation, along with my sight loss I have had some significant nerve damage in my hand. Anyway thanks for sharing the links. I have been to a Hinn concert, the people with real disabilities I was with sat in the overflow tent / space from my observation.

    (Brian Darby, who has worked for 21 years with severely handicapped people in Northern California, says he has witnessed firsthand the disappointment left in the wake of a Hinn Miracle Crusade. Over the years, he says, many of his clients have attended the events, where they were swept up in a wave of excitement, thinking they were about to walk for the first time or have their limbs straightened. “You can’t minimize the impact of not being healed on the person, the family, the extended family,” Darby says. “They have a sense of euphoria at the crusade and then crash down. [Hinn is not] around to pick up the pieces.”) 1

    I want you to know I tried on many occasions to discuss these issues with Mr. Hinn via email, phone and post. I had thought of approaching him personally but did not wish to risk arrest or assault. I am not saying either of those would happen but I have read that this has happened to some people who have reached out to some faith healing types. I have said this in the past I will never fault a person making money, that is almost a sacred activity, no it is a sacred activity. I just know the pain and disappointment people feel when they are not healed.


  17. Surfer,

    Calvary Chapel guys are unyielding … they have become all domestic and they simply do not remember what a mess the Jesus People days were.

    Hinn had a better day in the nineties I think… but God does all the healing so he uses messed up people.

    I remember KK days I thought she was a nutcase… So when I got older and heard the stories from people who love her I just realized that having ‘ears to hear’ is not an inborn or permanent condition.

    And everyone thinks their particular discernment is right… There’s a laugh

    anyway I appreciated your post.

    Was watching a Calvary pastor yesterday broad brush a revival movement … same dude got miraculously healed by another nutcase years ago…

    We all need a generous heart even me when I am complaining about those who I think don’t have it.

  18. Bob says:

    Great links!

    My first comment is about a comment.

    “Yes the worst thing about that Hinn thing is that you might walk out before you get healed.”
    Or maybe; “you might walk out before you get fleeced.”

    The most important link is the one about the declining working women in the church.


    1. In general it appears today it is women who make up the bulk of the church goers and supporters.

    2. This link softly speaks loudly (yes that’s right) about the problem of men and their application of submission in the church.

    3. While the same gifts which help people to be “successful” in secular life also help them become successful in their church life they rarely add up to a walk with God.

    4. The purpose of the church should never be solely about attendance every week. Ultimately it is a community effort to equip the believer for a daily walk with God in Messiah Jesus. There should be no separation, for a believer, between the secular and the spiritual life.

    And now for something completely different.

    Now please send your $1,200.00 dollars to Benny HInn Ministries so he can continue to fly his personal jet world wide and provide for the healing of your wallet and purse strings.


  19. Jean says:

    The issue of women’s roles in the church is an important challenge that will only grow. The communication and body language on each side of the issue will say as much to women as anything else.

  20. Michael says:


    It’s fine with me if the boy comes home…and becomes a green chile roaster or a janitor at the Frontier.
    My love for the people of Albuquerque precludes me endorsing him for ministry.
    The fact that he would participate in the scandals of Seattle at the highest level should preclude him from ministry anywhere.
    I’ll be transparent here…he’s right in the middle of my radar and he should be likewise for all in the 505.

  21. Other than pastor, what role are women barred from in the church? We have women board members, 2 presidents ago was a woman and no one, the pastors included dare get in the way or go contrary to the ladies who run the office.

    In our church, since we do not preach “have a better marriage”, “how to effectively raise kids” or “how to climb your way to the top” etc from the pulpit, I don’t know that there is a gender gap.

  22. Jean says:


    If you want to know whether there is a gender gap in your church or Synod, you’d have to survey your women in an environment where they feel safe being honest. What you, as a male, think or perceive is not the measure. There are many ways in which women are dismissed, discriminated against, put down, looked down upon, etc. that are not always reflected in rules and policies (although rules and policies can enforce those). Therefore, you may be totally correct, or you may be terribly wrong, in your assessment, but a man or men are hardly qualified to judge for women how they perceive they are valued or treated by any church body, which historically has been stronghold for male chauvinism.

  23. Steve Wright says:

    I got a complaint from a man once because all my illustrations involving gender related issues had the woman as the innocent and the man as the guilty party. 🙂

  24. Steve

    That is how I find real life to be…

  25. fme2 says:

    Just spoke with a recent ex-Mars Hill ABQ member…she was out when Bruskas said in a video broadcast recently to multiple campuses that he “enjoyed the attention from women who liked his body.” She gagged and the family left promptly.

  26. brian says:

    Please forgive this story because I cant find the reference if anyone knows of the missionary pilot it is a very powerful story. There was this brother “I don’t know the name” . He had a single engine plane that he would “jet” around central and south America dropping off supplies, medicine, doctors, other missionaries, bibles etc. The plain was very durable and it appeared the pilot missionary was safety oriented but he took some “risks” to help deliver his supplies / fellow workers.

    It was a very exciting story that made me cry and hope. Gee I wonder if Benny Hinn uses his Jet for that type of work.

  27. Northstar says:

    Steve and Dread,

    You guys really need to get out more, Women can be just as evil as Men! Even the Bible speaks to such

  28. fme2 says:

    brian…more is known about Jim Elliott because his wife, Elizabeth Elliott wrote the book, Through Gates of Splendor and but Nate Saint was the pilot (I think his life was told in a movie/book End of the Spear. They died in Ecuador reaching out to the Quechua (sp?) people. Now that I re-read your post, this may not be who you’re talking about!

  29. brian says:

    No fme2 that is not the person I was thinking of but it is the same type of plane Mr. Elliott and his friends used when they were killed. Yes I saw End of the Spear a wonderful film. I thought it might be Brother Andrew but I dont think he was a pilot.

  30. Northstar,

    What can I say… married well!

  31. God used Balaam’s Ass so I suppose He could use Benny Hinn. But the comparison is not fair to the Ass.

  32. randallslack says:

    Caring for the Gay and Divorced? Next thing you know, we’ll be encouraged to care for widows and orphans. Really… too bad the head of the Chaldean Church has to encourage us. Perhaps we should of listened to Jesus?

  33. Jean says:

    Xenia, what’s with the rain and wind out there? Are you affected in Santa Cruz?

    Sorry for commenting off topic.

  34. randallslack says:

    Xenia, no. I am referring to the Pope, not those who have been deceived into following him.

  35. Xenia says:

    I am referring to the Pope<<<

    I know you were.

    I thought I'd show you some real Chaldeans.

  36. Xenia says:

    Jean, we have had some extreme weather lately but it’s all calmed down for a while. We really, really needed rain and we are all thankful. It’s supposed to rain more next week. It needs to rain all winter for the drought to be broken.

  37. Jean says:

    I hope you get a lot of rain, all you need, in the right amounts to build up your reservoirs without causing flooding or landslides. Simple right?

  38. Xenia says:

    Jean, that’s what we need!

  39. Jean says:

    God is opening the windows of heaven. (I didn’t right that, but it sounds so poetic, I couldn’t resist.)

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