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60 Responses

  1. PP Vet says:

    According to NT Wright:

    “The way I see it is that there were many hominids or similar creatures, part of the long slow process of God’s good creation. And at a particular time God called a particular pair for a particular task: to look after his creation and make it flourish in a whole new way.”

    The dear man has gone over the cliff.

    Please, please, do not anyone preach that garbage unless you are absolutely certain that the Holy Spirit has given you an insight.

  2. PP,
    What are you saying? Are you rejecting the Good Reverend Wright’s claim that Adam & Eve were promoted to foremen. 🙂

  3. It’s funny – Wright has always said a bunch of whacky stuff (some good stuff too), but you hold some of his things up to Driscoll’s stuff – they are both on the same low level.

    As always happens, the British accent gives credibility where credibility is not due.

  4. Michael says:

    My guess is that within a few years Wrights position will be the norm for non fundamentalist creationists.
    It’s not my view, but it is gaining a lot of traction.

  5. PP Vet says:

    Moses killed an Egyptian, Abraham took up with Hagar, etc. When God’s plan is too baffling for us, we just have to come up with a solution that makes sense to us.

    And from that perspective, yes, NT has come up with something “sensible”.

    Unfortunately, like many flesh-derived alternatives to divine truth, it is an absolute abomination.

    In the same vein, Jimmy and Jerry Gourd came up with the Wallminator 3000.

  6. Jean says:

    Anyone is welcome to disagree with any biblical scholar, including Wright. However, in my experience of having read several of his books and watched over a dozen lectures, Wright grounds his theology solidly in his exegesis of the Bible and he appears to me to be a committed Christian who cares deeply about the church and its future. Therefore, instead of throwing out cheap insults, his critics could explain where is exegesis is in error and enlighten us all.

  7. Paige says:

    I appreciated the article on what life is like when a pastor is fired. The writer’s description of the disorientation of life and circumstances and the dearth of fellowship and social support while going through a difficult season really spoke to my own painful experience.

    I do have to wonder why this author-pastor was fired twice in two years. Eeks…. not sure he really wants that kind of information on the internet for future employers to view.

  8. Michael says:


    I always learn something from reading Wright even when I don’t always agree with him.
    I respect him greatly.
    This creation theory is not unique to him, but I think it does too much damage to other doctrines to be viable.

  9. Michael says:


    I thought you would find that worthwhile…

  10. CrucifiED says:

    MLD, you should read the article on protestants and purgatory. According to him, there are no good protestant answers for a sanctification that doesn’t include some kind of purgatory experience. Maybe not the Catholic church kind of purgatory, but God has to get you sanctified somehow before He invites you in.

    Again, so glad I chose to be a Lutheran. I have a respect for everyone’s beliefs but have come to absolutely despise any synergistic answers to the Christian faith. I have never heard a synergistic answer to any topic of Christianity that grew in me the kind of reverence I have now in believing that Christ has accomplish all this for me and for some reason chose to gift me with the faith to believe it.

    My sanctification is now not a process of fear as I hope I am sanctified enough before I die to shorten my purgatory experience. My sanctification occurs as the joy of the Gospel message fills my heart and the natural light of Christ begins to shine in my daily life and routine.

  11. Bob says:


    “we just have to come up with a solution that makes sense to us.”

    Often time I ask why? to questions like this.

    The scriptures wee never written to define the actual physical process God uses in creation, but when I am asked what I believe it is simple, “God said and it was so.”

    I am neither an old or young earth proponent and I am also not a supporter of the idea that God “used” evolution as his process to create the world. To me to make any sort of claim shows more ignorance than it does wisdom. As we learn from observation (science) the complexity and miraculous nature of the physical world screams faith in something greater than physical world itself. Just consider the idea of quantum physics and you start to get a hint of the miraculous and powerful essence outside of our selves.

    NT is just trying to find answer what he can’t answer and by not saying, “I don’t know or understand how…” he demonstrates his flaws.

    The first two humans in creation are what the scriptures call Adam and Eve (English version), why is that so hard to say!

  12. PP Vet says:

    No cheap insults? Wait a minute – did I log in to Patheos instead of PhxPr?

    But seriously J, if I were interested in throwing out cheap insults to NT, I would not be suggesting, as I in fact did, that he was walking in the steps of Moses and Abraham. That was high praise.

    The clear implication is: Great men, not to mention Jimmy and Jerry, whether out of impatience or lack of faith, may resort to fleshly solutions.

    If I wanted to insult NT, I would be calling him fat and bald, and implying he has prostate issues that are affecting his thinking, and was just dishing unformed ramblings on the way to the loo. But I would never do that of course.

    NT has no exegesis whatsoever behind his ridiculous speculation, and he admits that.

  13. Jean,
    “Therefore, instead of throwing out cheap insults, his critics could explain where is exegesis is in error and enlighten us all.”

    I think the responsibility might be on you to show us the biblical passage that Wright exegeted. You know that to actually exegete, you must be working with a particular set of Bible verses. I have read the Bible several times, and I am not beyond missing things, but if you want to show me the passage(s) that speak of Adam and Eve being in a group and being picked out of this group – I will listen.

  14. Jean says:

    MLD, I disagree. I was not the one who described Wright as saying a “bunch of wacky stuff” and of being at the “same low level” as Driscoll and saying that he is given credit which is not due. You said those things, which are actually beneath of best impulses of any Christian.
    Why would you insult someone for any reason, instead of honorably disagreeing with something he may have said or written and explaining how he got it wrong?

  15. Jean says:

    I’m not here to defend Wright’s theology. I am here to learn from others, and exchange knowledge and opinions, and possibly be of help to someone else. No learning or building up of the body of Christ takes place when people simply resort to insults.

    I don’t see Michael throwing around insults of people, so I don’t think I’m off base for desiring a more thoughtful exchange of ideas.

  16. Michael says:


    i do throw insults occasionally, but almost always toward people PP Vet holds in high regard… 🙂

  17. 1.) That is my honorable way.
    2.) Would you not agree then that if he exegetes passages that are not there, that indeed his idea is “whacky”?
    3.) And I will not even bring up NPP. 😉

  18. Michael says:


    I don’t see this as a question of exegesis as much as one of hermeneutic.
    Wright doesn’t believe that Genesis is a literal step by step guide to creation…and I tend to agree with that as do many very good Bible scholars.

  19. Andrew says:

    NT Wright is dangerous! If this is who he think Adam was, what does that say of what he thinks about the second Adam, namely Jesus.

  20. Michael,
    I can agree that it is not a step by step … but then NT Wright starts filling in the steps.

    I guess his view is no crazier than the folks who think God delivered first life to this planet by spaceship. I just don’t understand how people can speak where God has not spoken.

    It should be left at “the Bible says…”

  21. PP Vet says:

    Exegetically there is a difference between “creating” and “forming”. To make the point starkly and unmistakably clear, God uses the word “create” three times in one verse (verse 27, and 27 is 3 to the third 🙂 ).

    Course he says “All things are lawful” four times, and still bozos come to this site to dispute that.

    Therefore He also says, Why do I waste my Breath ….

  22. Michael says:


    Have you ever read Wright?
    There are few who write about Jesus as well as he does…

  23. Andrew says:

    I haven’t read Wright but I have listened to plenty of his stuff. Listening to him play his guitar in worship praising the God of evolution said it all to me.

  24. Andrew says:
  25. “Listening to him play his guitar in worship praising the God of evolution said it all to me.”
    Now I would like to see that video. 🙂
    Andrew, do you have the right Wright?

  26. Andrew says:

    I posted the youtube version Genesis to the music of “Yesterday”. Looks like it may be in moderation.

  27. Andrew says:

    N.T. Wright sings “Genesis” a song he wrote with Francis Collins over at Biologos

  28. Kevin H says:

    So who’s got the one sentence descriptor for the Phoenix Preacher? 🙂

  29. PP Vet says:

    That video gives me the creeps … and I can’t even get it to play.

    I actually believe that I know – by revelation, not fleshly speculation – where the hominids came from, what condition the planet was in and why at the time Adam and Eve were created, etc. As a result I am comfortable with the geology, paleontology, anthropology, evolutionary biology, etc.

    Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

  30. Andrew says:

    I must say NT is a better guitar player than he is a theologian.

  31. To change the subject to something a little more wholesome … I am glad that I am not a teenager dating today. Re: the new tipping point LOL 🙂 – I can’t imagine being in the backseat for my old 1960 Rambler American, with the fold down seats and finding out my date … well, is the ‘new tipping point.!!! Yikes

  32. PP Vet says:

    I personally subscribe to the very old-fashioned beliefs that everyone in this country shared … four years ago.

  33. Michael says:


    You disagree with him on this point.
    If you ever read his defense of the resurrection you’d know why I laughed when you say he’s not a good theologian.

  34. Those of us who made it through all 800 plus pages of Wright’s work on the Resurrection should bet some kind of button to wear. It about killed me. 🙂

  35. Michael says:

    Treys on his way to the ER…don’t know whats going on, but prayers appreciated.

  36. London says:


  37. Andrew says:

    Michael, I didn’t say he was a bad theologian. I said he was a decent guitar player.

  38. Xenia says:

    Lord, have mercy.

  39. Paige says:

    Indeed, Lord have mercies….praying for Trey (and Michael.).

  40. Dusty says:

    praying here too big brother….and little brother.

  41. Michael says:

    Thank you for praying.
    He’s out and we have to observe him closely for a while…on to the next doctor.

  42. Michael says:

    Please feel free to continue as normal…I will obviously be tied up for a while.

  43. Dusty says:

    we are all moms….everything stops when the ER is brought up. lol

  44. What did he do – knock his head?

  45. Michael says:

    Possible onset of appendicitis….we’re not sure yet.
    He has some other issues so we have to be cautious.
    On the way to another MD…

  46. Praying

  47. Catherine says:


  48. EricL says:

    Still praying

  49. Michael says:

    Thanks to all for the prayers.
    We’re watching him to see if things get worse…appendicitis is still a possibility.
    I will be out tonight and probably tomorrow as well.
    You can talk amongst yourselves anyway. 🙂

  50. Eric says:

    From the MEV website:
    “The most modern word-for-word translation produced since the King James tradition in the last 30 years”.

    That sentence reads pretty badly. Every linguist who worked on the translation will be cringing.

  51. EricL says:

    Thanks for the update, Michael.

  52. brian says:

    I hope Trey is good, Michael I do pray but I do have some extra cash if you need anything let us know. I most likely not much I am not that wealthy but what I may have I could spare some. Dont be afraid to ask.

  53. Dusty says:

    Still praying

  54. I like my friend David D Sabatino’s work. His work is always well researched. Doing the docu on Larry must have tried his patience to the max.

    Even a dyed in the wool cynic like David gets blown away by Larry’s duplicity which I find mildly amusing.

    When I and the small group of Harbor High school kids first got saved we all listened to Larry’s music. We bought into his facade and his version of Christianity.

    You can imagine the shock of finding out that Larry was not as he appeared. Although my own first clue of his other life was when he appeared at a concert at the Orange County Fair grounds in the early 70’s. He was with the hottest babe in the tightest Leopard skin print clothing imaginable on. Talk about being stumbled…LOL

    Inspite of knowing the truth about the man, his music still holds a special place for me as it does for David D Sabatino. All of us agree that his music was light years ahead of anyone of his contemporaries.

    Kudos to David for another great docu! Looking forward to more docu’s from him in the future.

  55. brian,

  56. I say just point and laugh at them.

  57. Your #31 makes me glad I am married and not young and dating also.

  58. “…the offer to amputate healthy organs in the service of a delusional tendency is the moral equivalent of meeting a man who believes he is Jesus and inquiring as to whether his insurance plan covers crucifixion.”

    ok, that really IS a great line

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